advantages of Brexit

Lazyfox

Least we forget the UK consumer accounts for 1 euro in every 4 spent in the EU.

They import 80% of their food at the moment from the EU at inflated cap prices, buy 1 in 5 of all cars purchased in the EU, their 1 million pensioners in Spain keep half the Spanish economy going.

You can't win a fight with your customer and they are our customer.

They don't need the border with NI as post Brexit everything will be coming south. Think American meat prices or New Zealand lamb.

They will change their immigration policy to an Aussie styled points based one and stop immigration almost overnight by shutting off benefits and health care.

We will be the destination of choice then.

When they take back their seas all the fishing will be in Irish waters.

After 18 months we will be clamouring for an Irexit and leaving still saddled with the 200 billion debt for rescuing the Euro, still missing all our teachers, doctors, nurses, trades gone since the crash.

Our politicians are all bought with EU jollys 10% taxes like the UK it is the insiders are the biggest loser's.

A denial from the chief fireman in Greece that the non working hydrants and cuts from EU austerity had nothing to do with the deaths there rings hollow. Think how the cuts have bitten here.

Ireland has become a lowly colony to be exploited for the benefit of Germany and our influence is that of a colony. Nil. We will be thrown to the wolves in this negotiation.

Leroy42

So your solution is what? We join up with the UK? That didn't exactly work out well the last time.

Or become a state of the US maybe?

FrancieBrady

Taytoland wrote: »

I don't think Brexiteers need to justify why they voted in any great way, the people want out of the EU and that's it.

What are they waiting for then?

Oh wait...they are waiting for cake. :rolleyes:

BrokenArrows

The biggest advantage of BREXIT actually happening is that they can finally ****ing stop talking about BREXIT.

Professor Moriarty

Taytoland wrote: »

I don't think Brexiteers need to justify why they voted in any great way, the people want out of the EU and that's it.

Each and every Leave voter voted for a different type of Brexit.

Leroy42

Leroy42 wrote: »

But that is an issue for the UK. It is down to a failure of the UK government to proper spread the benefits. Allowing London to be the centre and leaving the North East and other areas to lose out. But I fail to see how leaving helps correct that?

Neither do I, but that is a failing of every government in europe, more or less.

Leroy42 wrote: »

Of course English of itself isn't the sole driver. Hence why we have low CT rates, very generous investment rules etc etc. But particularly for the US, moving you HQ to Ireland is far more attractive than to Hungary. Nothing wrong with Hungary, but US people have a closer link to us and the UK. The UK is now removing itself from that area, which is an advantage to us.

The UK wins FDI because it is the UK and is a market with the skills or opportunities those companies look for. US companies move here primarily for CT purposes, take that away (which will happen sooner or later) and that advantage disappears. There are already huge US companies with massive bases in Bratislava and Budapest, the main reason for keeping a head office in Ireland isn't because the CEO's great great grandmother came from Kerry, it is because there are very advantageous tax loop holes they can exploit.

Why do you think the Irish government is taking the somewhat bizarre step of taking the eu to court over repayment of the Apple billions?

Why do you think theonly countries that are opposing tax harmonisation are those which are generally considered to be low tax countries with loop holes the Multi nationals can expoit?

Leroy42 wrote: »

A number of years ago they dramatically cut down on the number of visa they would give out to foreign students. Ireland has recently increased the validity of Visa to, in some cases, now last for a full year after the studies have finished and allows working. So not only do you have a reduction in places within the UK, you have a rise in perceived anti foreigner sentiment. Getting a degree and being able to get work experience in a English speaking country is a major plus for plenty of the world.

Will they abandon the likes of Cambridge? No, but Trinity is not competing with Cambridge. We are competing the level below that. Liverpool, Manchester, London College etc.

The number of reductions in visa places is to stop the number of people who enter the UK to study a bull**** subject and then simply disappear. They won't be going to Trinity or UCD, just some two bit language school.

Leroy42 wrote: »

You seem to think that unless we take over that there are no advantages. The UK have always landed more FDI than Ireland, does that mean that FDI is of no benefit? Its about getting some of them, some that were previously based solely in the UK, over to Ireland. Get those in and the plan would be that over time to create our own niche in that market. We will never take over from London, NY or whatever, but we don't have to.

If those companies were based solely in the UK, then there is a reason for that, mainly because London is where they need to be. Dublin could carve out its own niche, but it will never be more than a niche.

Taytoland

Lazyfox wrote: »

Least we forget the UK consumer accounts for 1 euro in every 4 spent in the EU.

They import 80% of their food at the moment from the EU at inflated  cap prices, buy 1 in 5 of all cars purchased in the EU, their 1 million pensioners in Spain keep half the Spanish economy going.

You can't win a fight with your customer and they are our customer.

They don't need the border with NI as post Brexit everything will be coming south. Think American meat prices or New Zealand lamb.

They will change their immigration policy to an Aussie styled points based one and stop immigration almost overnight by shutting off benefits and health care.

We will be the destination of choice then.

When they take back their seas all the fishing will be in Irish waters.

After 18 months we will be clamouring for an Irexit and  leaving still saddled with the 200 billion debt for rescuing the Euro, still missing all our teachers, doctors,  nurses, trades gone since the crash.

Our politicians are all bought with EU jollys 10% taxes like the UK it is the insiders are the biggest loser's.

A denial from the chief fireman in Greece that the non working hydrants and cuts from EU austerity had nothing to do with the deaths there rings hollow. Think how the cuts have bitten here.

Ireland has become a lowly colony to be exploited for the benefit of  Germany and our influence is that of a colony. Nil. We will be thrown to the wolves in this negotiation.

If you remove the English army tomorrow and hoist the green flag over Dublin Castle, unless you set about the organization of the Socialist Republic your efforts would be in vain. England would still rule you. She would rule you through her capitalists, through her landlords, through her financiers, through the whole array of commercial and individualist institutions she has planted in this country and watered with the tears of our mothers and the blood of our martyrs.

- James Connolly. 

Just replace England with the EU.

Pogue eile

Pogue eile wrote: »

Do you think that racism played a part in the referendum outcome in the UK?

a bit, but there are many many reasons why people voted the way they did.

There is a very interesting article written by an LSE student

http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/brexit/2016/11/03/why-did-south-asians-vote-for-brexit/

Taytoland

Taytoland wrote: »

To true Brexiteers it is not about economics, I frankly couldn't care less about the economy, it certainly doesn't dictate my views on Brexit pre or post Brexit. It's about much more important things than the economy.

What a strange and weird and bizarre and frankly baffling statement to make! You'll frigin' well care about the economy when you're unemployed, your savings are decimated by inflation, your pension is worth squat, and any government benefits barely cover a box of teabags.

Zubeneschamali

BrokenArrows wrote: »

The biggest advantage of BREXIT actually happening is that they can finally ****ing stop talking about BREXIT.

No, they will moan on about it being anything less than a perfect Brexit, because the EU are still picking on them, May was a secret Remoaner, Boris is best blah blah for the next 40 years.

Taytoland

Taytoland wrote: »

- James Connolly. 

Just replace England with the EU.

Jesus, comparing the English military occupation of Ireland with the UK's voluntary membership of the EU is a bit much, don't you think?

I mean if the Brits wanna leave they don't have to shoot and bomb their way out of anything like the rest of the empire did, and no skin off our fat Irish arses if they wanna go either since the topic is about possible advantages to Brexit for Ireland.

Taytoland

Deleted User wrote: »

Taytoland wrote: »

- James Connolly. 

Just replace England with the EU.

Jesus, comparing the English military occupation of Ireland with the UK's voluntary membership of the EU is a bit much, don't you think?

I mean if the Brits wanna leave they don't have to shoot and bomb their way out of anything like the rest of the empire did, and no skin off our fat Irish arses if they wanna go either since the topic is about possible advantages to Brexit for Ireland.

Yet... who knows how this will play out.

FrancieBrady

Deleted User wrote: »

Jesus, comparing the English military occupation of Ireland with the UK's voluntary membership of the EU is a bit much, don't you think?

I mean if the Brits wanna leave they don't have to shoot and bomb their way out of anything like the rest of the empire did, and no skin off our fat Irish arses if they wanna go either since the topic is about possible advantages to Brexit for Ireland.

The huge advantage of course is that after some pain we will have finally broken the economic dependency on Britain's marketplace. And there are some in Ireland (guess what the political affiliations are there) who are **** scared about what that will mean.

Billy86

[Deleted User] wrote: »

What a strange and weird and bizarre and frankly baffling statement to make! You'll frigin' well care about the economy when you're unemployed, your savings are decimated by inflation, your pension is worth squat, and any government benefits barely cover a box of teabags.

Except they won't blame brexit and all the lies they were sold, they'll just blame whoever happens to be in government at the time and will vote instead for a right wing populist promising to pop £350mn in their letter box every Friday afternoon.

When that turns ou to be a lie, they'll claim their vote for the right wing populist never had anything to do with money in the first place, and on and on the cycle continues.

FrancieBrady

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The huge advantage of course is that after some pain we will have finally broken the economic dependency on Britain's marketplace. And there are some in Ireland (guess what the political affiliations are there) who are **** scared about what that will mean.

Ireland is an island off an island and the island we are off, just happens to be the fifth largest economy in the world.

Ireland may be able to lessen that dependency, but has no more chance of breaking that it than the UK does of breaking its dependency on the eu.

FrancieBrady

Aegir wrote: »

Ireland is an island off an island and the island we are off, just happens to be the fifth largest economy in the world.

Ireland may be able to lessen that dependency, but has no more chance of breaking that it than the UK does of breaking its dependency on the eu.

They can massively reduce it. To the point that, Britain and whatever stupidity it next decides to embark on, will have negligible effect on us.

The_Kew_Tour

I totally agree that in many cases the Leave Campaigned lied through their teeth to make it happen, however you swear Irish Politicians or Party's never lied in their lives to get into power.

The_Kew_Tour

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

I totally agree that in many cases the Leave Campaigned lied through their teeth to make it happen, however you swear Irish Politicians or Party's never lied in their lives to get into power.

That's totally 100% true and can be probably applied to any country. I just don't see what it has to do with the topic of the thread here.

Billy86

Billy86 wrote: »

Except they won't blame brexit and all the lies they were sold, they'll just blame whoever happens to be in government at the time and will vote instead for a right wing populist promising to pop £350mn in their letter box every Friday afternoon.

When that turns ou to be a lie, they'll claim their vote for the right wing populist never had anything to do with money in the first place, and on and on the cycle continues.

I left Ireland to live in the UK ten years ago. You just made the most frighteningly accurate statement about people here I've ever heard in all that time. These people are addicted to misery! Give them one thing good and they'll do everything in their power to f8ck it up!

Pogue eile

Aegir wrote: »

Ireland is an island off an island and the island we are off, just happens to be the fifth largest economy in the world.

Ireland may be able to lessen that dependency, but has no more chance of breaking that it than the UK does of breaking its dependency on the eu.

The probem is they have just effecitively alienated themselves from 3 of the top ten economies in the world.

Spook_ie

Pogue eile wrote: »

The probem is they have just effecitively alienated themselves from 3 of the top ten economies in the world.

What the USA, China and Japan?

Pogue eile

Spook_ie wrote: »

What the USA, China and Japan?

Germany, France and Italy are all in the top ten.

The Rape of Lucretia

Leroy42 wrote: »

So your solution is what? We join up with the UK? That didn't exactly work out well the last time.

Or become a state of the US maybe?

Because a bit like the UK in Europe, Irelands heart wasnt in it. It was constantly bitching and angling, or factions of it anyway, to IreEmpirExit. It could do so much better if it bought in fully for the sake of the unity of the island and the Irish. Its what they have been bleating about since 1922. Now is the time to show unity with the North - join the UK.

The Rape of Lucretia

Pogue eile wrote: »

Do you think that racism played a part in the referendum outcome in the UK?

It was a factor without doubt. Everybody is racist to some degree, and some will let it influence their actions.

The Rape of Lucretia

Aegir wrote: »

nothing at all, but anyone who objects to the EU project is generally chastised along those lines. For example:



I wonder if Ireland, Malta, Luxembourg and the Netherlands are whingers for opposing a harmonised tax regime, or if they are just exercising their right under the eu treaties.

No, they are simply stating their case. The UK has been always, and consistently, the laggard in EU motivation. As some stated well early in the ngotiations, the UK used to be the member state always looking for special opt outs - now it wants to be a non member getting special opt-ins.

The Rape of Lucretia

Spook_ie wrote: »

And the EU of 2025 may have yet an altogether different look if Schultz gets his way

Thats the beauty of the EU, no ons state or person can get 'their way' alone.

Taytoland

Taytoland wrote: »

To true Brexiteers it is not about economics, I frankly couldn't care less about the economy, it certainly doesn't dictate my views on Brexit pre or post Brexit. It's about much more important things than the economy.

......aaaanndd there you have it all in one post. The fantastic delusional factless based world that Brexiteers exist in. You aren't Jacob Rees-Mogg by any chance with a boards account? Because only people sitting on a huge pile of cash would utter this sort of nonsense. (The others are extremist ideologues).

The Rape of Lucretia

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

No, they are simply stating their case. The UK has been always, and consistently, the laggard in EU motivation. As some stated well early in the ngotiations, the UK used to be the member state always looking for special opt outs - now it wants to be a non member getting special opt-ins.

The laggard? Like when it held up the Lisbon treaty because it didn’t want abortions?

Or when it nearly killed the Canada trade deal because a few farmers didn’t want it, or hen its people very nearly killed off the Maastricht treaty in a referendum?

Try_harder

Watching the UK squirm

Donald Trump

Taytoland wrote: »

If you remove the English army tomorrow and hoist the green flag over Dublin Castle, unless you set about the organization of the Socialist Republic your efforts would be in vain. England would still rule you. She would rule you through her capitalists, through her landlords, through her financiers, through the whole array of commercial and individualist institutions she has planted in this country and watered with the tears of our mothers and the blood of our martyrs.

Just replace England with the EU.

Jaysus, never took you for a socialist/marxist. Must be a SF voter?

Taytoland

Taytoland wrote: »

I fully support Brexit and look forward to March next year.

How apt that a unionist is looking forward to March. Brexit is only going to end one way for Unionism:

Kermit.de.frog

Taytoland

Deleted User wrote: »

Taytoland wrote: »

To true Brexiteers it is not about economics, I frankly couldn't care less about the economy, it certainly doesn't dictate my views on Brexit pre or post Brexit. It's about much more important things than the economy.

......aaaanndd there you have it all in one post. The fantastic delusional factless based world that Brexiteers exist in. You aren't Jacob Rees-Mogg by any chance with a boards account? Because only people sitting on a huge pile of cash would utter this sort of nonsense. (The others are extremist ideologues).

I'm ideologically driven by it.

Kermit.de.frog

First person to solve it gets a cookie

*and no Ireland does not get to leave the EU too.

Taytoland

Taytoland wrote: »

Yet... who knows how this will play out.

We all know the outlines. It's going to be bad, really bad, for Britannia who has to be very publicly taught a lesson.

It's going to be great for rank opportunists like Boris, Jacob and English (as opposed to British) nationalism as they play on the ignorant, the marginalised and the losers of English society to portray England as the victim and to scapegoat all those bloody foreigners for a problem created in its entirety as a result of decades of scapegoating the EU for everything bad by the Tory party and British media specifically and English nationalists generally. This "poor us" scapegoating card will be played time immemorially. Hopefully, the EU will introduce a Section 31 to ban English Europhobic whinging on the airwaves.

FrancieBrady

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

First person to solve it gets a cookie

*and no Ireland does not get to leave the EU too.

'B is A you fenian *@**"£$%!'

Kermit.de.frog

Speaking of Brexit I see P.ie is down.

The baboons will need a new home. Hopefully Boards will take their fair quota.

Mr. teddywinkles

listermint wrote: »

I know what you mean.

All this growth and people out spending money with the restaurants bars and shops full.

It's so dire out there. You can't walk down a main Street of a weekend for the people out and about.

Dire I tells ya.


It would make other nations want to drop out of Europe altogether...

Yea when the **** hits the fan a second time and we're loaned up to our bollix again. Good job.

force eleven

Twill be grand, and we should get out too.

briany

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

First person to solve it gets a cookie

*and no Ireland does not get to leave the EU too.

There will be a hard border between C&B if there's no deal. It's just, based on current Brexiteer rhetoric, it'll only be effective when travelling from B to C.

In any case, I don't think that getting to Britain is going to be all that attractive a proposition for EU nationals after Brexit occurs, because either the economy will take a nosedive or the social, legal and political environment will become increasingly hostile to them. I think Brexiteers are confident that most of the traffic across the border into NI and possibly on to Britain will be Irish citizens, and that's fine because of the CTA. Those who are not Irish citizens will be, if found, deported.

Taytoland

The special relationship between British and Irish people needs to be maintained and supported on. No doubt about that.

FrancieBrady

Taytoland wrote: »

The special relationship between British and Irish people needs to be maintained and supported on. No doubt about that.

Not ****ting on the island again would help that relationship immensely and maybe having a glance through the Agreement you signed up to before hitting the eject button, would have helped too.

Taytoland

Taytoland wrote: »

I'm ideologically driven by it.

Can you expand on this? What does a statement like this actually mean? If economics aren't important to you, would you happily end up living in a tent (wouldn't fancy that in a Northern European Winter tbh) if it achieved 'true Brexit'?

Spook_ie

Pogue eile wrote: »

Germany, France and Italy are all in the top ten.

Germany Imports from UK £49.1Bn
Germany Exports to UK £75.1Bn

Deficit £26Bn

France Imports from UK £33.8 Bn
France Exports to UK £37.6 Bn

Deficit £3.8 Bn


Italy Imports from UK £17.3 Bn
Italy Exports to UK £22.6 Bn


Deficit £5.3 Bn


Total deficit in 2016 from the 3 Euro Partners in the top 10 £35.1 Bn




Also to put the figures into context AFAICT excluding the EU

Imports from rest of world


Exports to Rest of World


World Exports £547.5Bn
World Imports £590.5Bn
Deficit £52.1Bn only £17 Bn more than the 3 euro partners.


Total EU Imports 2016


EU exports 2016


Something was going to give and other than the Irish Border ****e that keeps resurfacing I think they'd do all right

Source https://www.ons.gov.uk/businessindustryandtrade/internationaltrade/articles/whodoestheuktradewith/2017-02-21

Mr. teddywinkles

More worried about ourselves than Britain. I'd say they'll do fine. It's the stuff post brexit and our relationship with the eu is worrying me. I'd say well have an all in commitment to the eu or nothing to ensure this doesn't happen again. And god knows what crap they'll start introducing on us. Ie tax harmonisation.

SteM

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

I totally agree that in many cases the Leave Campaigned lied through their teeth to make it happen, however you swear Irish Politicians or Party's never lied in their lives to get into power.

I agree but the lies that the Leave campaigners spread will effect their country for generations to come. Lets be honest, most Irish governments last 4 or 5 years which is plenty of time to be incompetent but not long enough to **** us up on a scale that Brexit could be mess Britain up.

Thomas_IV

marieholmfan wrote: »

Should be great for Cork if it all goes tits up!    Cork airport doesn't overfly the UK (neither does Shannon for long haul)    


What else will be great about Brexit.   Please no jokes about    £5 blowjobs in Hull.

That would be a good thing if Aer Lingus would provide more direct flights to and from both Airports in regards of continental flight connections. Many go to Dublin. The last time (and the first) I had an direct flight to Cork was in 2013. Pity that this isn't going to be provided now. Cork was more easy than Dublin and less crowded. The rental cars are just around the corner.

Thomas_IV

SteM wrote: »

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

I totally agree that in many cases the Leave Campaigned lied through their teeth to make it happen, however you swear Irish Politicians or Party's never lied in their lives to get into power.

I agree but the lies that the Leave campaigners spread will effect their country for generations to come. Lets be honest, most Irish governments last 4 or 5 years which is plenty of time to be incompetent but not long enough to **** us up on a scale that Brexit could be mess Britain up.

That's some point. More so when thinking about the regular FF bashing one can read about on every Irish MB. But the Maybot and her Brexiteers are worse than them, far worse. Still, there are plenty of Brits on the leave side who are that strongheaded to ignore every warning and they'll have to learn it the hard way how utterly wrong they are. Pity the other 48% will have to suffer with them. There are certainly no good times ahead, rather very bad ones and I anticipate that ritos on a countrywide  scale will occure once the hard Brexit reality kicks in. Probably worse than what one has seen in 2010.

PeadarCo

Spook_ie wrote:

Something was going to give and other than the Irish Border ****e that keeps resurfacing I think they'd do all right

The problem with those figures is that they ignore three things.

One the UK will also have to renegotiate trade agreements it was party to as an EU member. When you factor these in over half the UK trade is done either with the EU or through EU trade agreements.

Two the UK will have to actually join the WTO. Currently they are part of the WTO through the EU. They will run into issues with dividing out their element of their share of EU quota. Even "friendly" countries such as the US and New Zealand have objected to these being divided out pro rata based on trade volumes.

And thirdly it ignores the reality of global supply chains where a product can go over multiple borders. So a lot of UK exports even if they don't go to the EU may require parts sourced from EU countries. These supply chains cannot be rebuilt overnight.

Leroy42

Even if you remove the problems pointed out by PeaderCo, just from a purely logistical POV Brexit is going to cause huge problems.

Yes goods can be sourced from other markets, if the current deals they have with EU companies are no longer as attractive due to tariffs etc.

Lets pick meat for example. So they no longer buy Irish Beef because of tariffs. So where do they get it from? The rest of the EU is out (the same tariff problem). So they agree a non tariff deal with Brazil. Great.

But even after the trade deal is signed, now companies need to set up agreements. Minimum price, standards levels, packaging, type of beef, type of cuts etc etc etc. But they manage that.

But it takes time to ship beef from Brazil to the UK. There is a cost to that time. Who pays for this? Does the UK company pay up front in part or all? Does the Brazilian company need to wait until the UK receive the goods, so what happens to the farmer who sold the cattle?

And the increased travel time, and thus increased chances of disruption, means that greater stock needs to be maintained. Where, and who is paying for these extra facilities (in the case of beef it would need to be cold storage so more expensive again.

And then you run the risk of the consumer not accepting the standard of meat is the same and thus won't pay the same, never mid a higher price for the product.

You need to run a marketing campaign to show the benefits of the new product.

Your company (UK) will need to set up field offices or agents in Brazil to keep on top of the suppliers and deal with any issues. What courts will cover any disputes?

All of this can be overcome. But the question needs to be asked, why?