advantages of Brexit

FrancieBrady

blinding wrote: »

How many people have Belgium or any other Country that kept this right sent back ?

You cannot complain if you don't use measures open to you.
Jaysus. It fairly simple to understand

blinding

Leroy42 wrote: »

No idea, but if it is low then it obviously isn't the issue you seem to think it is.

At the core, despite what people are claiming, each country still maintains a very large degree of control over the people within its borders.

Whether they excise any actions to to this control, is control itself. They make that decision, not some unelected somebody somewhere.

It means that it is too expensive to be put into action and that the government want as much cheap exploitable / slave labour as possible which is what is happening in practice with Mass Immigration .

In practice governments because they have the excuse of being in the Eu are allowing Mass Immigration of cheap exploitable / slave labour . This is what is happening in practice regardless of what politicians . Hint for future reference ; Watch what politicians do and not what they say .

FrancieBrady

blinding wrote: »

It means that it is too expensive to be put into action and that the government want as much cheap exploitable / slave labour as possible which is what is happening in practice with Mass Immigration .

In practice governments because they have the excuse of being in the Eu are allowing Mass Immigration of cheap exploitable / slave labour . This is what is happening in practice regardless of what politicians . Hint for future reference ; Watch what politicians do and not what they say .

So you want the EU to go beyond the power they have and over rule parliaments (by controlling immigration) that have not implemented measures available to them for whatever reasons?

What were you saying about a 'superstate' again?

Leroy42

blinding wrote: »

It means that it is too expensive to be put into action and that the government want as much cheap exploitable / slave labour as possible which is what is happening in practice with Mass Immigration .

In practice governments because they have the excuse of being in the Eu are allowing Mass Immigration of cheap exploitable / slave labour . This is what is happening in practice regardless of what politicians . Hint for future reference ; Watch what politicians do and not what they say .

Have you actually got any facts to back any of this up?

Here is a piece from a few years ago.

Some 2,712 citizens of other EU countries have been asked to leave Belgium for being an unreasonable burden on the welfare system.

The number of people being told to go has more than tripled in three years.

Even having a job is not enough to be allowed to stay, as is the case with Italian accordion player Silvia Gurria, who has lived in Brussels for three years. Gurria has an integration work contract and 30 percent of her salary is funded by the state.

http://www.euronews.com/2014/01/30/belgium-sends-burden-eu-citizens-letters-asking-them-to-leave-the-country

blinding

FrancieBrady wrote: »

So you want the EU to go beyond the power they have and over rule parliaments (by controlling immigration) that have not implemented measures available to them for whatever reasons?

What were you saying about a 'superstate' again?

I want Sovereign Independent Countries to Control their own Borders . It’s one of the main things about being a Sovereign Independent Country .

FrancieBrady

blinding wrote: »

I want Sovereign Independent Countries to Control their own Borders . It’s one of the main things about being a Sovereign Independent Country .

You began by blaming the EU for obstructing that, and got shown it wasn't the case at all.

Now can you deal with how in god's name The UK is going to 'control their border' by Brexiting when it doesn't 'want a border' on it's only physical frontier with the EU?

*gets popcorn.

blinding

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/moving_country/moving_abroad/freedom_of_movement_within_the_eu/freedom_of_movement_in_the_eu.html

The Four Freedoms . Those Europeans and their one liners . The Germans can always be relied upon to come up with some good ones . You do not control your borders in the Eu . If you want to be a Sovereign Independent Country you cannot be in the Eu Superstate .

FrancieBrady

blinding wrote: »

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/moving_country/moving_abroad/freedom_of_movement_within_the_eu/freedom_of_movement_in_the_eu.html

The Four Freedoms . Those Europeans and their one liners . The Germans can always be relied upon to come up with some good ones . You do not control your borders in the Eu . If you want to be a Sovereign Independent Country you cannot be in the Eu Superstate .

:rolleyes::rolleyes:

The J Stands for Jay

ozmo wrote: »

But then paying Duty and Import tax on everything from Amazon.

I've bought a few things from amazon.de, works out cheaper often than .co.uk

Zubeneschamali

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Just as the Brexiteers huff and puff about walking away with no deal, it is completely within the EUs power to walk away - no deal, no transition period, no free trade agreement, no UK-EU flights.

Oh, and we can object to the UKs submissions to the WTO, too, and the EUs voice is a loud one there.

Let's see how long they keep threatening Ireland with a hard border in that situation.

The UK has said from day one that they don’t want a hard border. The surest way to get one, is to force the UK to crash out with no deal. Then the EU would be forced to insist on one.

Junkyard Tom

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Why are you bringing up Sinn Fein?



I couldn't give a shit about football.

Don't bother quoting me and wasting bandwidth if you're going to ignore what I wrote in favour of rambling on about Sinn Fein and football.

What you wrote was trite though. Completely

Junkyard Tom

blinding wrote: »

If you want to be a Sovereign Independent Country.

There is no such thing as an 'independent country' in the 21st Century. I don't think even North Korea could be described as independent. You must be thinking of pre-industrial Japan or something.

Aegir wrote: »

What you wrote was trite though. Completely

The truth often seems trite and especially so for those who can't see it for ideological or emotional reasons. Now if you'd like me to refute/expand on any of the points I made feel free to quote them.

PeadarCo

Aegir wrote:

The UK has said from day one that they don’t want a hard border. The surest way to get one, is to force the UK to crash out with no deal. Then the EU would be forced to insist on one.

This sums up how little the people advocating leave actually under stand the decision they have made. If they leave the customs Union and single market they will be required by the WTO to erect a border. They will also have to put one up because the minute they enter trade negotiations with another country they will want completely unfettered access to the UK. If they don't other countries will naturally ask whats the difference between them and the EU.

Nitrogan

Being forced to finally become fully independent of the UK is a good thing for Ireland in the long term especially when they're on a self-destructive trajectory themselves.

NI and the Scots should re-evaluate their positions in the UK for their own benefit too.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

So far the biggest advantage of Brexit seems to be all the jobs announced for us from Northern Ireland based companies. Hundreds have been announced in the past month in Dundalk, Athlone, and Ballyconnell. Companies want an EU base post Brexit and are setting up here at the expense of much needed jobs in NI.

CalamariFritti

ArchXStanton wrote: »

Indeed onward towards a federal superstate...that none of the public were asked about

But even if that was the case it still beats two world wars which none of the public were asked about either. When people make out this possible federation to be the worst thing ever they seem to forget where we're coming from and why this project was started in the first place.

4068ac1elhodqr

Milo Delightful Sidecar wrote: »

So far the biggest advantage of Brexit seems to be all the jobs announced for us from Northern Ireland based companies. Hundreds have been announced in the past month in Dundalk, Athlone, and Ballyconnell. Companies want an EU base post Brexit and are setting up here at the expense of much needed jobs in NI.

But won't all the workers from cross-border areas get quickly fed up with hardborder tailbacks twice a day? Rather than pay double their current rent, those most highly skilled, might just head off elsewhere.

4068ac1elhodqr

CalamariFritti wrote: »

But even if that was the case it still beats two world wars which none of the public were asked about either. When people make out this possible federation to be the worst thing ever they seem to forget where we're coming from and why this project was started in the first place.

But don't have the EU have their eyes on Turkey, N'Africa and even a NATO backed Ukraine, if/when the next war is going to kick off, these places will more likely be involved than the much, much smaller franco-germanic EU of 1973.

Taytoland

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Taytoland wrote: »

That he is overseeing some of the worst times in London in years, friends with Islamists, rampant knife crime which is a 7 year high.

Worst times? Care to elaborate?

How many knife crimes are there, exactly?

Finally, can you prove he is friends with Islamists?

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/mayor/sadiq-khan-shared-platform-with-five-islamic-extremists-a3231436.html

[font=Cambria, georgia, serif]In 2004, [/font][font=Cambria, georgia, serif]he participated in a pro-Palestinian conference[/font][font=Cambria, georgia, serif] organized by Friends of Al-Aqsa, a group that previously published works by Holocaust denier Paul Eisen. He was joined by Daud Abdullah and Ibrahim Hewitt. Abdullah was part of the Muslim Council of Britain (MCB), which at the time boycotted Holocaust Memorial Day. Hewitt’s organization, Interpal, was [/font][font=Cambria, georgia, serif]added to the U.S. Treasury’s list[/font][font=Cambria, georgia, serif] of Specially Designated Global Terrorist organizations for its work funneling money to Hamas.[/font]

http://thefederalist.com/2016/05/09/londons-new-muslim-mayor-is-suspiciously-friendly-with-islamists/

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/may/15/met-figures-reveal-deeply-troubling-rise-in-serious-in-london

Murder rate up 44%, with 23% increase in gun crime and 21% rise in knife crime in year to March

They were released to coincide with a hearing of the London assembly’s police and crime committee on Tuesday. Its chairman, Steve O’Connell, called the rise “unacceptable” and “deeply troubling”.
“Still the figures go the wrong way, and still we’re losing far too many of our young people,” O’Connell said.

ArchXStanton

CalamariFritti wrote: »

But even if that was the case it still beats two world wars which none of the public were asked about either. When people make out this possible federation to be the worst thing ever they seem to forget where we're coming from and why this project was started in the first place.

You can attribute that peace to NATO...and oh lookey the peace project/trading bloc now wants to militarise

ancapailldorcha

Taytoland wrote: »

...

Fair enough on the former.

Any raw numbers for the latter?

First Up

ArchXStanton wrote: »

CalamariFritti wrote: »

But even if that was the case it still beats two world wars which none of the public were asked about either. When people make out this possible federation to be the worst thing ever they seem to forget where we're coming from and why this project was started in the first place.

You can attribute that peace to NATO...and oh lookey the peace project/trading bloc now wants to militarise

Boy, you see some awful rubbish in these discussions.

NATO was set up in the post WW2 Cold War environment to counter the threat from the Soviet Union. It is a pre-emptive military alliance; nothing else.

The EU originated at the European Coal and Steel Union after WW2 to put the means of military production beyond the reach of individual countries. It has evolved into the most advanced and successful political and economic initiative in history.

But keep tossing in your red herrings. It confirms you have nothing else.

First Up

ArchXStanton wrote: »

CalamariFritti wrote: »

But even if that was the case it still beats two world wars which none of the public were asked about either. When people make out this possible federation to be the worst thing ever they seem to forget where we're coming from and why this project was started in the first place.

You can attribute that peace to NATO...and oh lookey the peace project/trading bloc now wants to militarise

Boy, you see some awful rubbish in these discussions.

NATO was set up in the post WW2 Cold War environment to counter the threat from the Soviet Union. It is a pre-emptive military alliance; nothing else.

The EU originated as the European Coal and Steel Union after WW2 to put the means of military production beyond the reach of individual countries. It has evolved into the most advanced and successful political and economic initiative in history.

But keep tossing in your red herrings. It confirms you have nothing else.

ArchXStanton

First Up wrote: »

Boy, you see some awful rubbish in these discussions.

NATO was set up in the post WW2 Cold War environment to counter the threat from the Soviet Union. It is a pre-emptive military alliance; nothing else.

The EU originated as the European Coal and Steel Union after WW2 to put the means of military production beyond the reach of individual countries. It has evolved into the most advanced and successful political and economic initiative in history.

But keep tossing in your red herrings. It confirms you have nothing else.

Indeed..

First Up

ArchXStanton wrote: »

First Up wrote: »

Boy, you see some awful rubbish in these discussions.

NATO was set up in the post WW2 Cold War environment to counter the threat from the Soviet Union. It is a pre-emptive military alliance; nothing else.

The EU originated as the European Coal and Steel Union after WW2 to put the means of military production beyond the reach of individual countries. It has evolved into the most advanced and successful political and economic initiative in history.

But keep tossing in your red herrings. It confirms you have nothing else.

Indeed..

You are welcome to nominate other candidates

ArchXStanton

First Up wrote: »

You are welcome to nominate other candidates

Well let's just have a look at your statement I highlighted, we have our nearest neighbour exiting this radical utophia you speak of,with the EU doing its best to prevent other exits,the once relatively stable southern countries are basket cases economically,the EU has even managed to create a resurgence in the far right (hmm were did we see this before) imagine that,you have the V4 countries at loggerheads with the EU constantly and armed soldiers on the streets in various countries with huge concrete fcuking blocks at the entrances to Xmas markets and streets.

Now I've met some very deluded people in my time(I'd say a tad mentally Ill even) but by fcuk that takes some doing to delude yourself like that. Take a bow

First Up

ArchXStanton wrote: »

First Up wrote: »

You are welcome to nominate other candidates

Well let's just have a look at your statement I highlighted, we have our nearest neighbour exiting this radical utophia you speak of,with the EU doing its best to prevent other exits,the once relatively stable southern countries are basket cases economically,the EU has even managed to create a resurgence in the far right (hmm were did we see this before) imagine that,you have the V4 countries at loggerheads with the EU constantly and armed soldiers on the streets in various countries with huge concrete fcuking blocks at the entrances to Xmas markets and streets.

Now I've met some very deluded people in my time(I'd say a tad mentally Ill even) but by fcuk that takes some doing to delude yourself like that. Take a bow

So no other candidates.

Winner by default so I guess.

Aegir

Aegir wrote: »

What you wrote was trite though. Completely

Brexiteers need to be careful of accusing others of writing 'trite'. I still haven't seen an actual plan from them on how Brexit will lift the economic standards of the UK higher than they would have been had they voted to remain. Perhaps you might be the first?

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Brexiteers need to be careful of accusing others of writing 'trite'. I still haven't seen an actual plan from them on how Brexit will lift the economic standards of the UK higher than they would have been had they voted to remain. Perhaps you might be the first?

Why would I, I’m not a brexiteer.

I voted to remain and nothing has made me change my mind. I despise what the Eu is becoming and I am really worried about the direction it is heading.

I think change needs to come from within though, but I really can’t see where that will come from and most of Europe will sleep walk in to a European superstate.

Aegir

Aegir wrote: »

Why would I, I’m not a brexiteer.

I voted to remain and nothing has made me change my mind. I despise what the Eu is becoming and I am really worried about the direction it is heading.

I think change needs to come from within though, but I really can’t see where that will come from and most of Europe will sleep walk in to a European superstate.

Apologies, from the tone of your posts I thought you were. I really don't understand these throwaway comments though such as: 'will sleep walk in to a European superstate.' Do you really think this is happening? Do you have firm evidence? Why continue to hold a remain position if you are that pessimistic?

Nitrogan

Without the handbrake and existential threat of the UK trying to destroy it from within the EU can become a federation of countries with distinct cultures and identities which can share prosperity and as bloc stand up to pressures from the huge economies of the US and China.

Maybe even become a collective with the military capacity to independently defend itself.

The Rape of Lucretia

Aegir wrote: »

I think change needs to come from within though, but I really can’t see where that will come from and most of Europe will sleep walk in to a European superstate.

Maybe they arent sleep walking, but running eyes open to embrace something they are very keen to be part of ?

There is a easy pat line that goes 'Europe' is something alien to the citizens of all EU states, and that this ethereal force want to centralise all control, leave the citizens with none, and do ill with the concentrated power. Nonsense. The EU is the greatest development ever in Europe, and all its citizens should delight in the good that is a superstate as one as the one being constructed, not for us, but by us. Monnet, Schuman, deGaspari, Kohl, and my favourite, Delors, should be celebrated as heros throughout Europe.

It really is time to make May 9th a Europe-wide union holiday like we used to get when I were a nipper.

Zubeneschamali

Aegir wrote: »

The UK has said from day one that they don’t want a hard border. The surest way to get one, is to force the UK to crash out with no deal.

So that means that the UK does not want to crash out with no deal. OK.

The Rape of Lucretia

Nitrogan wrote: »

Without the handbrake and existential threat of the UK trying to destroy it from within the EU can become a federation of countries with distinct cultures and identities which can share prosperity and as bloc stand up to pressures from the huge economies of the US and China.

Maybe even become a collective with the military capacity to independently defend itself.

The European way is success, peace and progress through ever increasing integration, economic cooperation, and culteral exchange, rather than the military route though. And so far, compared to Europe's previous efforts, it is a resounding undeniable success, or I'm a Wallach.

Zubeneschamali

ArchXStanton wrote: »

Well let's just have a look at your statement I highlighted, we have our nearest neighbour exiting this radical utophia you speak of

Things this bad happened in the Roman Empire, lots of them, worse than Brexit. But not on purpose, not voluntarily.


This will literally be the most spectacular act of self-harm by a real state since...


Nope, there is no since, it will simply be the worst full stop.


I am so f*cking glad that my life path did not end up in the North of England, which it could so easily have done.

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Apologies, from the tone of your posts I thought you were. I really don't understand these throwaway comments though such as: 'will sleep walk in to a European superstate.' Do you really think this is happening? Do you have firm evidence? Why continue to hold a remain position if you are that pessimistic?

The same reason I do the lottery. You have to be in it to win it.

Nitrogan

Nitrogan wrote: »

Without the handbrake and existential threat of the UK trying to destroy it from within the EU can become a federation of countries with distinct cultures and identities which can share prosperity and as bloc stand up to pressures from the huge economies of the US and China.

Maybe even become a collective with the military capacity to independently defend itself.

It can do that without becoming a federal state. In fact, it does that already.

The One Doctor

DickSwiveller Returns wrote: »

This. I would bet my house on it.

Not enough time now. Actually, the UK doesn't have a written constitution so they can claim it never happened.

The One Doctor

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Things this bad happened in the Roman Empire, lots of them, worse than Brexit. But not on purpose, not voluntarily.


This will literally be the most spectacular act of self-harm by a real state since...

...Germany started WW2.

Zubeneschamali

The One Doctor wrote: »

...Germany started WW2.

Perhaps I was wrong and Brexit is only slightly less sef-destructive.


Perhaps.


Slightly.

The Rape of Lucretia

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Perhaps I was wrong and Brexit is only slightly less sef-destructive.


Perhaps.


Slightly.

Well, that was a gamble, that could have paid off. Brexit on the other hand...

This is probably a thread in its own right but when no less than Peter Robinson comes out, as he did today, to say that the North should prepare for the possibility of a United Ireland, we know we're heading towards a radically different future.

Dublin is only a Brexit away? (For the young bucks, "Dublin is only a Sunningdale away" was the Unionist catchcry following the Sunningdale Agreement in December 1973)

He makes some very interesting points, and it's currently the most read story on The Irish Times:

'North should prepare for possibility of a United Ireland'

The Rape of Lucretia

Deleted User wrote: »

This is probably a thread in its own right but when no less than Peter Robinson comes out, as he did today, to say that the North should prepare for the possibility of a United Ireland, we know we're heading towards a radically different future.

Dublin is only a Brexit away? (For the young bucks, "Dublin is only a Sunningdale away" was the Unionist catchcry following the Sunningdale Agreement in December 1973)

He makes some very interesting points, and it's currently the most read story on The Irish Times:

'North should prepare for possibility of a United Ireland'

A united Ireland as part of the UK surely ?

Capt'n Midnight

prinzeugen wrote: »

Notice its only the left wing, pro EU rags that are running this story. As with food, procuring medical supplies on a vast scale takes months. The NHS buying supplies now to be covered for the winter is not "stockpiling for Britex"... Its called being prepared for the winter. The HSE does exactly the same.

The EU will go one of two ways. It will become a superstate or it will die.

I predict they will push the further integration thing and in 20 years time the Eastern block countries will have gone and a EU superstate will exist consuming the remaining members.

The USA has had separate states since the eighteenth centry. And they share a common language but still not merging.

Poland had been split up many times. Some find being inside the EU is vastly preferable to some of the other options.


BTW the UK supermarkets are looking to extend contracts from suppliers in the Southern Hemisphere beyond the normal winter supply, so stuff will still be heading to the UK in March.

Capt'n Midnight

Aegir wrote: »

50% of Irish beef exports (worth €1.2bn) go to the UK.

If the Eu is the friend that is claimed, then it will do all it can to protect these exports, will it not?

We are the UK's biggest beef market.

Aren't you forgetting that we import about half of that amount from the UK ? So it's really 25% nett going to the UK and if there's a hard Brexit we can replace their beef exports to the EU.

Nitrogan

Irish agricultural exports have a growing profile around the world so Ireland isn't as reliant on the UK export market as it once was. Brexit is an opportunity to further diversify and push Irish produce as a premium brand globally rather than a supermarket supplier for the UK with limited margins.

PeadarCo

Capt'n Midnight wrote:

So it's really 25% nett going to the UK and if there's a hard Brexit we can replace their beef exports to the EU.

And to a certain degree so what. Ireland is a services oriented economy(so is the UK, its 80% of their exports) a reduction in beef exports would not be good particularly for rural Ireland. However in the overall picture its not a big deal today. It was in 1930s but Irelands economy is very different today. There are far far bigger threats to the well being of the Irish economy than a hit to the beef industry.

Galwayguy35

Deleted User wrote: »

This is probably a thread in its own right but when no less than Peter Robinson comes out, as he did today, to say that the North should prepare for the possibility of a United Ireland, we know we're heading towards a radically different future.

Dublin is only a Brexit away? (For the young bucks, "Dublin is only a Sunningdale away" was the Unionist catchcry following the Sunningdale Agreement in December 1973)

He makes some very interesting points, and it's currently the most read story on The Irish Times:

'North should prepare for possibility of a United Ireland'

There's probably a better chance of Ireland winning the World Cup than a United Ireland.

He also said relations between Ireland and the UK are at their lowest level in years, I'd agree with him on that.

The main players in Europe couldn't care less about a small country like Ireland and when they eventually get the border issue sorted we will be forgotten about so Leo might not want to piss off the Brits too much.

Galwayguy35

Nitrogan wrote: »

Irish agricultural exports have a growing profile around the world so Ireland isn't as reliant on the UK export market as it once was. Brexit is an opportunity to further diversify and push Irish produce as a premium brand globally rather than a supermarket supplier for the UK with limited margins.

Yeah but a lot of the trucks will still have to cross Britain to get to Europe.

Nitrogan

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Yeah but a lot of the trucks will still have to cross Britain to get to Europe.

Australia and New Zealand ship their agri produce over much greater distances than Ireland would need to avoid the UK.