advantages of Brexit

First Up

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Nitrogan wrote: »

Irish agricultural exports have a growing profile around the world so Ireland isn't as reliant on the UK export market as it once was. Brexit is an opportunity to further diversify and push Irish produce as a premium brand globally rather than a supermarket supplier for the UK with limited margins.

Yeah but a lot of the trucks will still have to cross Britain to get to Europe.

Plenty of capacity on ferries from Dublin, Rosslare and Cork to France and Spain. More than a dozen sailings a week.

The route via the UK is handy but there are other options. It isn't a coincidence that ferry companies have invested in new ships and routes.

Galwayguy35

Nitrogan wrote: »

Australia and New Zealand ship their agri produce over much greater distances than Ireland would need to avoid the UK.

First Up wrote: »

Plenty of capacity on ferries from Dublin, Rosslare and Cork to France and Spain. More than a dozen sailings a week.

The route via the UK is handy but there are other options. It isn't a coincidence that ferry companies have invested in new ships and routes.

I was only going on what some haulier was saying on Matt Coopers show recently.

It would be great if the goods could get to their destination and bypass the UK altogether.

FrancieBrady

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

I was only going on what some haulier was saying on Matt Coopers show recently.

It would be great if the goods could get to their destination and bypass the UK altogether.

Tatyoland will want them new aircraft carriers deployed in the Irish sea if we try to bypass the UK.

road_high

Twenty Grand wrote: »

Can't understand the rose tinted glasses of life before the EU especially in this country

We were the epitome of a backwater. EU membership helped transform Ireland it really did

First Up

road_high wrote: »

Twenty Grand wrote: »

Can't understand the rose tinted glasses of life before the EU especially in this country

We were the epitome of a backwater. EU membership helped transform Ireland it really did

The EU is the most spectacularly successful political, economic and social venture in history. Not just for Ireland but for all of Europe. Nothing comes close.

That is so undeniably obvious that you have to wonder at the motivation of those (including posters here) who are desperate to see it fail.

FrancieBrady

road_high wrote: »

We were the epitome of a backwater. EU membership helped transform Ireland it really did

It transformed Britain too and took them out of the grip of the IMF and debt. But they are still too proud, in the main, to admit that.
It has to be an internal narrative. Maggie saved them. :rolleyes:

blinding

FrancieBrady wrote: »

It transformed Britain too and took them out of the grip of the IMF and debt. But they are still too proud, in the main, to admit that.
It has to be an internal narrative. Maggie saved them. :rolleyes:

Didn’t the 26 Counties have the IMF in a few years back while in the Eu ?

FrancieBrady

blinding wrote: »

Didn’t the 26 Counties have the IMF in a few years back while in the Eu ?

Yes, it did.

The UK was constantly in debt to it since WW2 before having to apply for a bailout just after joining the EEC.

In 1957 when the EEC was born Britain's GDP was 28% ahead of any of the 6 founding nations.
By 1967 it was 6% ahead
and it lost the lead in 1969 when it was -2%.

It then rapidly decreased until it was nicknamed 'The Sick Man Of Europe'.
The UK (or elements within it) decided it wanted to join the EEC around 67.

blinding

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Yes, it did.

The UK was constantly in debt to it since WW2 before having to apply for a bailout just after joining the EEC.

In 1957 when the EEC was born Britain's GDP was 28% ahead of any of the 6 founding nations.
By 1967 it was 6% ahead
and it lost the lead in 1969 when it was -2%.

It then rapidly decreased until it was nicknamed 'The Sick Man Of Europe'.
The UK (or elements within it) decided it wanted to join the EEC around 67.

The EEC shouldn’t have let them join and they shouldn’t have joined . They are not willing to give up the Running and Sovereignty of their Country to the EEC / Eu . Bad move all round . Amicable as possible divorce and move on . It was / is a dysfunctional relationship .

FrancieBrady

blinding wrote: »

The EEC shouldn’t have let them join and they shouldn’t have joined . They are not willing to give up the Running and Sovereignty of their Country to the EEC / Eu . Bad move all round . Amicable as possible divorce and move on . It was / is a dysfunctional relationship .

The UK can never admit that it was the EEC, then the EU that first rescued them and then allowed them to prosper.
The Single Market was something Thatcher was behind and instigated.

There was never a need to 'give up sovereignty' or 'the running of the UK' to anyone.
That is another myth cobbled together by a media and establishment in the UK itself that can never get over the idea that they are 'self made'.

That is where the battle lines are now while we in the EU wait for them to sort it out internally and watch them tear the UK apart.
If you think that civil war will end in or out of the EU then that is another delusion.

BorneTobyWilde

If May thinks she's giving the people what they want, then why is she so afraid to let them decide now that everyone knows the consequences of it. They voted for 500m a week for the NHS, leaving EU was just an after thought for the voters. Now that they know the 500m a week was pure bull s hit and it's all lose lose lose they might think differently.

blinding

If the Eu is such a Benign Institution surely it can’t be that hard to leave it .

All these threaths of armageddon / punishment beatings / offers ya can’t refuse smacks of a rather Nasty Institution .

Jaysus , Its a dodgy institution that calls in the heavies just because ya want to leave the Club .

ArchXStanton

blinding wrote: »

If the Eu is such a Benign Institution surely it can’t be that hard to leave it .

All these threaths of armageddon / punishment beatings / offers ya can’t refuse smacks of a rather Nasty Institution .

Jaysus , Its a dodgy institution that calls in the heavies just because ya want to leave the Club .

Simply it's all about control

First Up

blinding wrote: »

If the Eu is such a Benign Institution surely it can’t be that hard to leave it .

All these threaths of armageddon / punishment beatings / offers ya can’t refuse smacks of a rather Nasty Institution .

Jaysus , Its a dodgy institution that calls in the heavies just because ya want to leave the Club .

If you leave a club, you cease to get the benefits of membership. If that is punishment, it is self-inflicted.

blinding

ArchXStanton wrote: »

Simply it's all about control

Control Freakery on Steroids with the Eu Juggernaught Propaganda Machine behind it .

What can possibly go wrong ? Run for it Britain while you still can . They are out to get you !

FrancieBrady

blinding wrote: »

If the Eu is such a Benign Institution surely it can’t be that hard to leave it .

All these threaths of armageddon / punishment beatings / offers ya can’t refuse smacks of a rather Nasty Institution .

Jaysus , Its a dodgy institution that calls in the heavies just because ya want to leave the Club .

More myth making.

The UK has simply being asked, again and again what it wants and has being given the parameters for leaving if they want a deal.

they so far have refused to recognise those parameters and come up with something acceptable to the EU27.

blinding

First Up wrote: »

If you leave a club, you cease to get the benefits of membership. If that is punishment, it is self-inflicted.

Surely the Eu has to bring Britain to the door and ask it nicely to leave . Why does the Eu not do this ? This is a serious question !

FrancieBrady

blinding wrote: »

Surely the Eu has to bring Britain to the door and ask it nicely to leave . Why does the Eu not do this ? This is a serious question !

To continue the simplistic analogy, the problem is the UK want to hold on to the key and are trying to slip out with the good cutlery and use the key to come back for more.

PeadarCo

blinding wrote:

Surely the Eu has to bring Britain to the door and ask it nicely to leave . Why does the Eu not do this ? This is a serious question !

Why does it have to? The UK has decided to leave. The EU has laid out the ways the UK can continue its relationship. A deal could get done very quickly if they decided to remain in the Customs union and single market. If the UK isn't happy tough. Welcome to the big bad world outside the EU. Don't expect any other country/trading organisation to threat them differently.

Most Europeans don't give a dam. One of the last EU summits that was supposed to be about Brexit ended up being about Migration from outside the EU. Brexit was a footnote.

If the UK wants to leave grand leave but don't complain about the consequences of a decision the country willingly made.

blinding

blinding wrote: »

Surely the Eu has to bring Britain to the door and ask it nicely to leave . Why does the Eu not do this ? This is a serious question !

What exactly do you mean by this? I'm finding it hard to take this as a legitimate "serious question" without knowing that.

blinding

Deleted User wrote: »

What exactly do you mean by this? I'm finding it hard to take this as a legitimate "serious question" without knowing that.

Eu to Britain....’ Your leaving , Bye “ from the end of March next year .

redarmyblues

ArchXStanton wrote: »

There's a few on here that should hand in their part time republican cards..

Theres a few on here wants to collect their tinfoil hats.

First Up

blinding wrote: »

Deleted User wrote: »

What exactly do you mean by this? I'm finding it hard to take this as a legitimate "serious question" without knowing that.

Eu to Britain....’ Your leaving , Bye “ from the end of March next year .

What do you think they should be saying?

blinding

First Up wrote: »

What do you think they should be saying?

Bye , best of luck . We’ll meet up for a few drinks every now and again .

FrancieBrady

blinding wrote: »

Bye , best of luck . We’ll meet up for a few drinks every now and again .

Well just leave without a deal then.

If you want a deal,(which you are still seeking as far as I can see) conform to the parameters laid down to get one.

blinding

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Well just leave without a deal then.

If you want a deal,(which you are still seeking as far as I can see) conform to the parameters laid down to get one.

It’s called negotiations . Maybe just stalling negotiations . Maybe the brits know they won’t get a deal . In Politics , sometimes you have to go through the motions . The Eu do not want to give the Uk a good deal or a deal the Uk wants . Perhaps both sides are just going through the motions .

First Up

blinding wrote: »

First Up wrote: »

What do you think they should be saying?

Bye , best of luck . We’ll meet up for a few drinks every now and again .

I'm sure such niceties will be exchanged in the hallway, along with "don't forget your hat" and "we must do lunch sometime".

Nate--IRL--

blinding wrote: »

.....The Eu do not want to give the Uk a good deal or a deal the Uk wants . ......

Why should they, when what the UK is asking for is detrimental to the EU?

Nate

Capt'n Midnight

PeadarCo wrote: »

And to a certain degree so what. Ireland is a services oriented economy(so is the UK, its 80% of their exports) a reduction in beef exports would not be good particularly for rural Ireland. However in the overall picture its not a big deal today. It was in 1930s but Irelands economy is very different today. There are far far bigger threats to the well being of the Irish economy than a hit to the beef industry.

But it's nice to deflate the myths.

We don't need to ask the EU to easy on the UK to save our economy.
A Hard Brexit will hit our economy by about 4%.
We grew 7.2% last year and predictions are for 4% per year for the next few years. So a Hard Brexit would only reduce our growth to UK rates.

We can afford to be tough with the UK especially since reality might just sink in when they realise they can't fall back to making threats against us.

The worst they could do is hand back Norn Iron and we could just about afford that. Handing back the north pretty much guarantees Scotland, and it's food and energy, leaving too so there's that.

blinding

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

But it's nice to deflate the myths.

We don't need to ask the EU to easy on the UK to save our economy.
A Hard Brexit will hit our economy by about 4%.
We grew 7.2% last year and predictions are for 4% per year for the next few years. So a Hard Brexit would only reduce our growth to UK rates.

We can afford to be tough with the UK especially since reality might just sink in when they realise they can't fall back to making threats against us.

The worst they could do is hand back Norn Iron and we could just about afford that. Handing back the north pretty much guarantees Scotland, and it's food and energy, leaving too so there's that.

There would be some Party in England and Wales and a lot of Scotland if Britain misplaced Northern Ireland in the Eu . What a fantastic un-intended fall-out of Brexit that would be . Put yourself in their Position and think how high they would jump in the air and how loud the Hurrah would be ?

PeadarCo

blinding wrote:

It’s called negotiations . Maybe just stalling negotiations . Maybe the brits know they won’t get a deal . In Politics , sometimes you have to go through the motions . The Eu do not want to give the Uk a good deal or a deal the Uk wants . Perhaps both sides are just going through the motions .

You are aware that once the Brexit process is done the UK won't be part of the EU. A post like the above shows a complete naivety about the implications of this

The job of the EU is get the best deal for its members. The UK will not be a member once negotiations conclude so it doesn't matter what type of deal a non member like the UK gets as long as EU members get a good deal.

The UK can get a deal when ever they want. They just need to meet the EU red lines that have been present for the last 2 years. Unfortunately the UK because its so small when compared to the EU it does not have bargaining power to change those lines. Welcome to international trade politics for everyone but the very largest countries.

FrancieBrady

blinding wrote: »

It’s called negotiations . Maybe just stalling negotiations . Maybe the brits know they won’t get a deal . In Politics , sometimes you have to go through the motions . The Eu do not want to give the Uk a good deal or a deal the Uk wants . Perhaps both sides are just going through the motions .

The Brits can walk from the table whenever they want.

They haven't, therefore they want a deal.

It is at this stage 'blindingly' obvious to everyone excluding blinding, that they will have to accept the terms before they get a deal.

Nobody is holding them against their will, so enough of the poor victim card.

blinding

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The Brits can walk from the table whenever they want.

They haven't, therefore they want a deal.

It is at this stage 'blindingly' obvious to everyone excluding blinding, that they will have to accept the terms before they get a deal.

Nobody is holding them against their will, so enough of the poor victim card.

If the Eu plays hard ball ( fair enough ) with the Uk then surely the Uk will play Hard ball with the 26 counties . Would you if you were them in that situation . The 26 counties is the Brits Trump Card in this situation . The Eu may have to Blink or the 26 Counties gets its ( trade through the Uk and the like e.g. Varakars airspace ). Unless the Eu is actually willing to financially compensate for the damage / control the Uk has over Irelands position .

blinding

blinding wrote: »

Eu to Britain....’ Your leaving , Bye “ from the end of March next year .

Would you mind putting a bit more detail into your posts?

"You're leaving. Bye." from the EU would be a simple No Deal crash out.

If you are asking "Why don't the EU do this?", it's because they are obligated to talk to the UK for two years and this is something the UK clearly wants.


Like everyone else here, I'm at a real loss as to what you think the EU should do, or even what sort of level of knowledge you have about what's going on.

blinding

blinding wrote: »

If the Eu plays hard ball ( fair enough ) with the Uk then surely the Uk will play Hard ball with the 26 counties . Would you if you were them in that situation . The 26 counties is the Brits Trump Card in this situation . The Eu may have to Blink or the 26 Counties gets its ( trade through the Uk and the like e.g. Varakars airspace ). Unless the Eu is actually willing to financially compensate for the damage / control the Uk has over Irelands position .

Name a few "hard ball" things they're doing, please.

blinding

Deleted User wrote: »

Would you mind putting a bit more detail into your posts?

"You're leaving. Bye." from the EU would be a simple No Deal crash out.

If you are asking "Why don't the EU do this?", it's because they are obligated to talk to the UK for two years and this is something the UK clearly wants.


Like everyone else here, I'm at a real loss as to what you think the EU should do, or even what sort of level of knowledge you have about what's going on.

The Uk and the Eu may be just going through the motions . If you look at their positions then there appears to be no possibility of a deal .

blinding

Deleted User wrote: »

Name a few "hard ball" things they're doing, please.

When the Uk comes up with Proposals they throw them out Publicly . Fair enough but a sign they don’t want to negotiate . Both sides are just going through the motions . They are too far apart to make a deal . The only reason the Eu might make a deal is to protect the 26 Counties .

FrancieBrady

blinding wrote: »

If the Eu plays hard ball ( fair enough ) with the Uk then surely the Uk will play Hard ball with the 26 counties . Would you if you were them in that situation . The 26 counties is the Brits Trump Card in this situation . The Eu may have to Blink or the 26 Counties gets its ( trade through the Uk and the like e.g. Varakars airspace ). Unless the Eu is actually willing to financially compensate for the damage / control the Uk has over Irelands position .

We are done with the 26 counties 'hard ball'. They tried to put us in the middle. But the rest of the EU are having none of that.

It's 'protect the GFA or sling yer hook' to bring it down to the simplistic way you want to look at things.

We will take a hit, but it won't be the crippling hit you fantasise about. That power is no longer there.

Nate--IRL--

blinding wrote: »

When the Uk comes up with Proposals they throw them out Publicly . Fair enough but a sign they don’t want to negotiate . Both sides are just going through the motions . They are too far apart to make a deal . The only reason the Eu might make a deal is to protect the 26 Counties .

Wait. the UK has agreed to some EU proposals (Backstop etc in December) only to throw them out publicly afterwards. The EU has never agreed to something and then gone back on it's word in these talks, like the UK has.

Nate

blinding

If the 26 Counties were on the other side of Britain I see no reason why the Eu would bother with a deal . The geographical position of the 26 Counties makes the whole carry-on more interesting .

FrancieBrady

blinding wrote: »

When the Uk comes up with Proposals they throw them out Publicly . Fair enough but a sign they don’t want to negotiate . Both sides are just going through the motions . They are too far apart to make a deal . The only reason the Eu might make a deal is to protect the 26 Counties .

:D:D The embarrassing thing here is all self inflicted as Britain tears itself apart.

Everybody knew for months that what would be in the White Paper would be thrown out immediately. But still they insisted on publishing it (made it PUBLIC)


Even then, Parliament turned around and very publicly ripped up their own White Paper. We all watched it happening live on the main Brexit thread.

blinding

FrancieBrady wrote: »

:D:D The embarrassing thing here is all self inflicted as Britain tears itself apart.

Everybody knew for months that what would be in the White Paper would be thrown out immediately. But still they insisted on publishing it (made it PUBLIC)


Even then, Parliament turned around and very publicly ripped up their own White Paper. We all watched it happening live on the main Brexit thread.

So no deal Brexit it is . I hope the 26 Counties are alright . Will the 26 Counties be able to cope with the 6 Counties if that happens quickly ?

blinding

blinding wrote: »

The Uk and the Eu may be just going through the motions . If you look at their positions then there appears to be no possibility of a deal .

A deal was plausible after the referendum, and what Vote Leave were saying in the run up to it was largely compatible with the EU. The additional deal-breaking red lines currently carry no mandate and are the UK's fault, not the EU's.

The EU's position has never wavered and is spelt out very specifically in its laws which the UK were a part of making. The UK would have never allowed a country join the EU like it is now trying to do.


The fact is Ireland needs the EU to survive far more than any it needs a good deal with the UK. If the UK squirrel their way around the four freedoms while maintaining benefits, the EU is done.

FrancieBrady

blinding wrote: »

So no deal Brexit it is . I hope the 26 Counties are alright . Will the 26 Counties be able to cope with the 6 Counties if that happens quickly ?

If what happens quickly?

First Up

blinding wrote: »

If the 26 Counties were on the other side of Britain I see no reason why the Eu would bother with a deal . The geographical position of the 26 Counties makes the whole carry-on more interesting .

Maybe substitute the 6 counties for the 26 and look at it again.

blinding

Will the 26 Counties be able to cope with a No Deal Brexit ?

It’s the Big Question!

First Up

blinding wrote: »

Will the 26 Counties be able to cope with a No Deal Brexit ?

It’s the Big Question!

We'll cope fine. Any other questions?

blinding

FrancieBrady wrote: »

If what happens quickly?

The 6 decide to join with the 26 . The demographics are changing rapidly and according to some sources Brexit has put it all up for grabs !

FrancieBrady

blinding wrote: »

Will the 26 Counties be able to cope with a No Deal Brexit ?

It’s the Big Question!

Absolutely. We have coped with far worse than will happen here.

blinding

First Up wrote: »

We'll cope fine. Any other questions?

I hope the Eu bankrolls that for a good few years . There may be some difficulties .