Air Arms 510 V's Daystate Wolverine R?

Somedaymaybe

In another thread I was asking about upgrading and after some web browsing have settled on the fact that a 0.177 air rifle with moderator would best suit my purposes for some target practice, plinking and or pigeons.
After spending time on the net I seem to be coming around to both of the above. I notice they both have the same parent company and based in England.
I know they are in completely different price bracket but buget isn't primary concern looking for something thats gonna last and good quality. Am I missing a trick with EU manufacturers?`
I seem to be siding with the 510 because it looks a more traditional unit but note some of the more perful units will only do 15 shots!
I would love to hear from anybody who has either of the above 2 which option you went for and why and if you had 2 positives and 2 negatives after practical use or if you think there is something else I should consider before I pull the trigger so to speak, tia.

murph226

What about a HW100?

Somedaymaybe

Ooh yeah that looks good, bigger and second magazine and better integrated into stock allowing lower mounts, do you have one? is the HW100S that you have ? the TK looks the dogs?
Found a good thread on here "Air rifle" which talk about the two.
Looks like I need a trip to Mullingar to get a closer look?

skipking

the s510 extra fac will give about 30 good shots. i have a s410 sl extra fac and am looking to change i am thinking
about a daystate huntsman or a fx streamline the air arms are a little too heavy for me and its the only reason for
changing. the air arms extra light only give around 15 shots.

Somedaymaybe

Cheers I need something which will have more capacity than that, HW100 is looking very good now and ticking all the boxes. I think its down to the HW and the 510 now:)
Dammit I see the HW100 FAC version will also only do 28 shots

Ferns83

Hi,

I have the S510 Xtra FAC but it is in .22

I have it for a good few years and it has never missed a beat. It is extremely accurate and reliable. I would have no problem recommending it. I have a .204 and Shotgun but the S510 is the first one I pick up every time. You will shoot far more vermin with it than anything else.

Getting back to your original post, If I had to criticise two things: With the mod fitted, it is extremely long and can be hard to manoeuvre in tight spaces. I originally bought it from Patrick Carley near Oilgate (he sells lots of them now, but this would have been one of the first) and he recently showed me the new Galahad which has the action set back in a bullpup configuration. I was very tempted but couldn't justify the extra expense as I doubt it is that much better and I'm already so happy with it.

I cant think of a second negative.

The two main positives of it are its accuracy and the easily adjustable power. This will allow you to get a huge number of shots from a charge (200 I think? I am open to correction?) for when you just want to plink or practice in the garden etc. With max power I get 30 shots before they start to drop off. In reality this is plenty, when was the last time anyone shot 30 rabbits on an evening stalk...

The HW100 is not adjustable I believe?

You are more than welcome to have a look at mine if you want to "try before you buy".

Hope this helps.

Somedaymaybe

Some really great info there thank you for taking the time to share and your offer to have a look.
I think I am coming round to the carbine version of the HW 100 model for the reason you said about length of the gun with the mod. I also feel the gun is very simple and classic some might say boring in its design and function.
I saw a review of the Galahad and it’s too sexy for me:)
On the shot count it looks like you can get aftermarket adapters and FX or custom tanks that will increase the shots from 50-150% depending on how much you want to spend, probably void any warranty in the process though!

lefthooker

Firstly I’d forget about .177 and stick with .22 or even .25

I have owned both an Air Arms and a Daystate.
The AA was a Galahad, essentially a modified S510 action. The plus point;
Even with a mod on it is still short and compact, so shoulders nicely and is very steady.
The power adjuster is now indexed with 5 settings.
The regulator gives consistent shots.
The negatives;
Just one, the shot count is too low IMO. I’m a plinker, I love nothing more than letting pellets fly but after 30-33 high power shots poi wanders a bit. I got sick of having to go back and charge up during a session.

The Daystate was an Airwolf, a predecessor to the wolverine and almost identical.
Plus points; adjustable power levels and a massive shot count thanks to its air bottle.
And it just looked cool too.
Negative; it had a 500cc steel bottle up front which made it slightly front heavy. I know that’s remedied on the wolverine R with its carbon bottle.

Of the two I preferred the Daystate.
Of the two you list, it’s a hard call. Let’s assume they’re both the FAC versions. The S510 has adjustable power, but it’s not indexed so high and low and something in the middle. But it is a bit long and shot count is too low for me. The Daystate has a much better shot count but is stuck on high power which isn’t ideal for shooting around sheds and buildings.
If I’m looking for a high grade pcp it must have an air bottle/ high shot count and variable power levels.

HW100S

Had an S510 - absolutely outstanding and never missed a beat. Highly recommended.
The S510 models are now coming regulated, the Ultimate Sporter is now available with the Standard S510 becoming available shortly (Autumn time). They are claiming to have 60 usable consistent shots on a 250bar fill.

lefthooker;107629960 The S510 has adjustable power, but it’s not indexed so high and low and something in the middle. But it is a bit long and shot count is too low for me.

They have also fixed the issue of the power adjuster. It has 4 defined divisions or clicks so you know where you are each time as opposed to the older free rotating wheel. (Which was/is a pain)
On the negative side the XL is very long but if you are into long range shooting (up to 100m) it will meet your needs.

The Day state guns look very nice, never shot one but I’m sure they are good also. One thing that has kept me away from them is plenty of YouTube videos on the Regal for example show not great accuracy at 50m compared to the S510.

Best of luck

Somedaymaybe

Cheers for the comments folks, its becoming clear where my priorites are now and what I want, didn't think it was gonna get as bad as the missus buying shoes though!
Reading through old threads ive made my mind up three times now on the 0.22 V 0.177 debate and yeah I'm of the opinion to potentially knock rabbits at 50+ yards .22 is the kindest. Lefthooker I thought 0.25 was a very rare animal? Its something I would consider but the fact that its less common is its only drawback in my mind?
I was under the impression that HW had a form of regulation.
It looks like its coming down to a version of AA 510 and HW100KT carbine

PSXDupe

I have an Air Arms S510 XS Xtra FAC Ultimate Sporter in .22,. I thought the Daystate was too light to be honest. McCloys had both the R and Red Wolf in stock a couple of weeks back and I went up to have a look.

The one I have is the new regulated XS version. Was out today with it, had it turned down a bit and with JSB Heavys I was getting 70-80 shots per fill @ 22ft/lb. That was filling to 240bar. Very consistent, 3 ft/s extreme spread over 20 shots and was putting pellet in pellet at 35m, < 1" group @ 50m @ full 32ft/lb. Will do < .5" @ 50m in the right hands.

The power adjuster is indexed on the. XS version,.with 5 definitive settings. You really do need the shoulder a rifle to see how it suits. I spent weeks driving all around the country trying different rifles.

If you want to see this in the flesh PM me, depending on your location.

amadablam

I have had both of those brands and currently have a daystate Airwolf which I'm about to change.(purely because I like trying new things)

After the guts of 20+ years of shooting them I would have a bit of experience.

Daystate, as already said, has a lot higher shot count.

Both the Airarms and the Daystate are incredibly accurate in my experience. Lothar barrels come on both of the ones I've owned.

Air arms have three power settings and the airwolf has abou 14 and is electronically governed.

To be honest and I don't care what any manufacturer says ; but you need to chrono to be sure what power each setting is.

Each time you change power you have to rezero any way so it's not a big deal.

Airarms are easier service on your own though and mechanically great guns.

However that S510 loses out massively in shot count compared to the Daystate bottle fed guns.

The Airarms is a lovely gun but a bit of a long, plain design. Having a carbon bottle on the daystate makes it handle nice and it's light.

Only go 17 if you are buying a sub 12ft lb rifle. Other wise, as already mentioned, 22 is a better option if you are going for a high power model.

With both of the above, in high power 30+ fpe you can comfortably shoot vermin in excess of 110 yards if you have the experience

If you plan on shooting target comps, you have to be sub 12 fpe anyway.

Regardless of what you go for they will both perform well but you definitely should handle the rifles a bit first.

Daystate definitely has the edge in employing more technology in their guns but Airarms is a fantastic gun and superbly engineered as well. It's also so much easier to service your Airarms in my experience.

The daystate, if set on 12fpe or whatever setting is close, will give you 230+ shots by the way.

Factor in the extras you need to start shooting as well, dive tank, fill kit, etc obviously scope, mounts, etc.

You will struggle to get actual user information/long term reviews on the Wolverine R because they are not readily available and supply is extremely limited at the moment. So I'm talking about my Airwolf here

Buy plenty pellet brands and test them as air rifles are very fussy. On high power rifles, stay away from anything less than 16gr because they may not stabilise properly.

Both of my guns preferred 18.13gr JSB pellets. They also make the majority of the premium brand pellets which are generally rebranded.

Best of luck.

nophd08

I also have the S510 Xtra Fac, an outstanding rifle. As already said here, with the moderator fitted its long and not the lightest of rigs. I find the shot count adequate and I never really turn the power down. I've taken grey crows at 80yards. A few months back ( I don't like admitting this on a public forum) my hen house was cleared out by a fox, it came back for another look and I took him down with a headshot at 25 yards, dropped on the spot. I know even a fac rifle is not ideal for large quarry but I was 100% confident in the rifle and the shot placement. You won't be disappointed with the 510. I'm a big fan of Matt dubber on youtube, if I was upgrading I think id look at FX, they seem to be streets ahead of other manufacturers at the moment.

Somedaymaybe

Ok making some progress here guys and taking all your comments on board.
With that in mind I called over to Mullingar on Sat morning, more fool me as the lads were really busy because of the rain. However I did get a really good look at the HW100 Carbine and the 510 both had lovely walnut stocks. Both within 50 Euros of each other I was suprised how heavy the HW100 carbine was but did like its compactness. The standard AA510 with a moderator would be a long beast.

The lads were very helpful and I will call back for a longer chat at some point.
I got brochures off them for both.

I now realise that because of the low shot capacity, 15, for the carbine 510 its off the range:eek:. I also didn't like that fiddly little power knob which I think must have been an older gun as it free rotated, I know a couple of you have said its been replaced with definitive stops although I'm not sure I could ever see a use for that to be honest. The lads say its for pidgeons or rats where you don't want to go through the metal of the building, but honestly in my mind I couldn't think of anything worse that half killing something even if its vermin. Not a big fan of that magazine either, don't get me wrong its a nice unit these are just silly personal fads.

In view of the above you'd think a bullpup is where its at for me but there is something about them I don't like the looks of was it the Galahad that has skewed my impressions?
I am whittling down options now and a version of a Carbine 0.22 with a carbon tank purely for capacity is where its happening I think.
I have decided I would like it as quiet as I can get it.

So nophd08, I have seen some of Matts and Teds vids and what was one of the first ones I saw tonight and a gun Matt swears by, the Impact of course, two hours later...
I thought I was a traditionalist, wooden stock classic long rifle, and now I'm drooling over what looks like an assassins outfit. It just looks tidy though:D


I think I also need to go to Navan?
So thanks for all the pointers so far and showing me 2 guns I never would have even considered. If there are any gunshops you think I should be visiting to look at Daystate or something else you have personal experienece in the range they have I'd appreciate a heads up. I'm a rep on the road so distance is no object.

PSXDupe

You also have to keep in mind bullpup is classed as a restricted firearm so that will most definitely be an interview with the chief superintendent for to get the licence on that, silly, but that's the way is it here.

Somedaymaybe

John in Portrlaoise has just told me they are a "restricted firearm" and he won't be importing them :mad:
So that applies to all the bullpups whats the story there is it because they can be concealed easier or something?
Super interview isn't an issue for me.

PSXDupe

I don't know the exact reasoning behind why bullpups are restricted.


The challenge with a restricted firearm is you have to explain to the chief super why that particular firearm is required and no other non-restricted firearm will do the job.


I had the same converstaion when I applied for my restricted semi-auto shotgun, it was an easy conversation as I needed to shoot slugs and also have more the 3 rounds in the tube. I needed that for competition.


But with an Air Rifle I would say that would be a little harder to do, why a bullpup is needed over a carbine etc. From my experience it would be fairly difficult.

Saying that, I know guys who have bullpup air rifles on normal licences, and dealer recommended a normal licence, but at the end of the day if anyone came looking it would be the person with the gun in trouble and not the dealer.


Some of the bullpup air rifles look nice but I'd say a pain in the ass to licence.

Somedaymaybe

Cheers, looking a bit more at the Impact its a complex mechanism and I think I would need the support of the dealer in case anything went wrong FX crown also looks like a potential.

Somedaymaybe

Ok I put a deposit on a gun today. Which one I’m not going to tell you for the simple reason that I don’t want to push the reader one way or another?
Buying any gun over 1.5k Is a big ticket item and you want to get it right so here’s what I learnt so that I can be useful to others.
1) Decide what you want have a priority wish list including budget
2) Research, research, research. Don’t believe everything you read on the internet or see on YouTube there is a lot of bias out there. A bit like Tripadvisor read all reviews and draw your own conclusions.
3) Speak to the local station get the vibe see what is or isn’t allowed, it’s a pain that there are no clearer countrywide guidelines and some approvals are discussion based. Having been out of the buying game for so long it’s pretty obvious to me the technology is way ahead of the legislation and for some Supers far easier just to say no, challenge them in a professional but courteous manner, get aggressive or start quoting the law and it will only end out in 1 result.
4) The best advice I can give is go to and speak directly to dealers and see what they can offer, try and find some with what you want or close to it. Ask to see stuff that you may have written off from internet reviews. Seeing something in reality makes a massive difference.
5) Quality costs

A genuine thankyou again to all those that posted sent pms etc. Without your input I would have bought a different gun.