Mountain Biking Forum

steamsey

Hi. I created a request for a mountain biking forum in the proper way as advised by a Mod. Please cast a vote (+1) if you'd like to see it happen. MODS - I'm only going to post this once to make people aware that the request is there.

You should be able to find the request here - https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=461

Eamonnator

I'm stupid, so bear with me.
How to you vote?

RobertFoster

Eamonnator wrote: »

I'm stupid, so bear with me.
How to you vote?

Add a +1/-1 to the thread OP posted.

comanche_cor

+1

Odelay

comanche_cor wrote: »

+1

You need to do that on the forum request thread in the link. Doing it here wont count.

Eamonnator

How many +1s are required, before this happens?

magicbastarder

" If the final tally (votes in favour/votes against ) is greater than +18 then the forum will be considered popular enough for consideration. If the tally of votes is higher than +20 for a continuous period of a week then the forum will be considered popular enough for consideration and the remainder of the 6 week period can be discarded."

magicbastarder

based on that, the initial idea is already passed the first hurdle, from what i can see? there are 32 posts and only a few which are non-commital or -1s.

steamsey

Great to see the (initial) support is there for a forum. One poster said it would need careful moderating because non-Coillte trails are a grey area legally - I think this is wrong. Coillte are fully aware of the unofficial trails and they are actually quite pro MTB. This should not be an issue and one of the main benefits of this forum is to have a place where, among other things, mountain bikers can finally talk about trails - maybe without being too explicit about location.

For the Dublin based MTB'ers - a discussion about trails has never been needed more. They recently chopped down half of Ticknock and a lot of old trails disappeared along with the felling. Would be good to hear what people think, what trails people are riding and it may even create an opportunity for a bit of trail building to get Ticknock back to it's former glory!

Apart from trail talk though - Mountain Biking is a growing sport and I see a lot of newbies out on the trails. The old advise for learning was to just join a MTB club - but this is not for everyone. The forum would be a great resource for all these people to be able to safely ask "stupid" questions. I have been MTB'ing for 20 years+ and it takes a long time to figure it all out (I'm still learning) - not just how to ride - but how to race, how to fix your bike yourself, how to fix things on the trail, what to bring with you when you're riding, good / bad reviews of parts, tyres etc - so that we can all learn from the collective knowledge that's out there.

Most of the MTB discussion in Ireland is very segregated, What's App groups, club forums (many of which are very quiet) etc. So even for more experienced riders, it would be brilliant to have some form of centralised discussion by way of this forum.

steamsey

magicbastarder wrote: »

" If the final tally (votes in favour/votes against ) is greater than +18 then the forum will be considered popular enough for consideration. If the tally of votes is higher than +20 for a continuous period of a week then the forum will be considered popular enough for consideration and the remainder of the 6 week period can be discarded."

Think we have + 49 NET with only one -1. Can we discard the 6 week period and get it going please?

df

steamsey wrote: »

because non-Coillte trails are a grey area legally.

In legal terms the law is very clear, there is no grey area. However it's fair to say that Coillte turn a blind eye to mountain biking to some extent, but they have little choice. How could they enforce the bye-law?

steamsey wrote: »

Coillte are fully aware of the unofficial trails and they are actually quite pro MTB.

I would say the opposite.

RobFowl

I'm in favour
Go fot it..

BazzyB

Got back on the bike for the first time this weekend after 5 years away from the scene...visited what would have been the local trails and found most of it was felled and the trails gone. Would be great to have a forum for this +1 from me

magicbastarder

your +1s are counted in the thread linked above, not this one.

steamsey

BazzyB wrote: »

Got back on the bike for the first time this weekend after 5 years away from the scene...visited what would have been the local trails and found most of it was felled and the trails gone. Would be great to have a forum for this +1 from me

Presume you are talking about Ticknock? I get that it's a managed forest, and they have to do what they did but my jaw did drop the first time I saw the carnage up there a few months ago. A huge amount of trails lost - or at least buried. I'm sure some could be reclaimed but seems to be that a lot of people are at the bike park these days, so I'm not so confident that the trails will reappear.

Sad to think that as the trees they felled would have taken 15-20 years to mature, an entire generation grew up riding those trails (myself included). So long EWOK!

BazzyB

steamsey wrote: »

Presume you are talking about Ticknock? I get that it's a managed forest, and they have to do what they did but my jaw did drop the first time I saw the carnage up there a few months ago. A huge amount of trails lost - or at least buried. I'm sure some could be reclaimed but seems to be that a lot of people are at the bike park these days, so I'm not so confident that the trails will reappear.

Sad to think that as the trees they felled would have taken 15-20 years to mature, an entire generation grew up riding those trails (myself included). So long EWOK!

Actually a much smaller forest down south near Cork but had the same feelings myself. Grew up riding those trails....oh well will try to reclaim some of it :pac:

steamsey

df wrote: »

In legal terms the law is very clear, there is no grey area. However it's fair to say that Coillte turn a blind eye to mountain biking to some extent, but they have little choice. How could they enforce the bye-law?



I would say the opposite.

Coillte license the Gravity Enduro events around Ireland. These events use official Coillte trails in some cases but for the most part, these races take place on unofficial trails. The organisers generally build the races around these unofficial trails. If Coillte had a problem with these trails it would be logical to assume that they would a) not licence the races that use these trails or b) destroy these trails.

steamsey

BazzyB wrote: »

Actually a much smaller forest down south near Cork but had the same feelings myself. Grew up riding those trails....oh well will try to reclaim some of it :pac:

Sorry to hear that. Hope you can get some of the trails back in working order.

muckwarrior

Firstly, the most recent felling in Ticknock was on privately owned land, not coilte forest, which is one of the reasons I'd be against organising trail building on an open public forum. In some cases clubs have a relationship with land owners and get permission before building trails on their land. By the way, the reason club forums seem so quiet is because most of the threads are kept to private members-only areas.

Regarding coilte's position, some individuals in it may have no problem with mountain biking, but others certainly do. Evidently they seem willing to tolerate the current situation, where people riding unsanctioned trails make an effort to do so under the radar. However, if hordes of newbies showed up and start injuring themselves or crash into a group of walkers then that could quickly change. All it takes is one law-suit or a few complaints. How can they enforce the bye-law? I don't know and I don't want to find out!

JJJJNR

steamsey wrote: »

Great to see the (initial) support is there for a forum. One poster said it would need careful moderating because non-Coillte trails are a grey area legally - I think this is wrong. Coillte are fully aware of the unofficial trails and they are actually quite pro MTB. This should not be an issue and one of the main benefits of this forum is to have a place where, among other things, mountain bikers can finally talk about trails - maybe without being too explicit about location.

There's no grey area, from a coillte standing its a criminal offence to remove trees from forests and rightly so, personally there's nothing I hate more than seeing a badly thought out route, that has healthy trees removed for the sake of a recreational trail. Its the park ranger not coillte you need to keep an eye out for when building a trail.

Coillte will do anything to make money, e.g. the trees in ballinastoe are hitting maturity now and its only a matter of time before the trails there are destroyed, if they were pro leisure they would leave them but they will be sold at auction like any other.

Big Nasty

Ahem......

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/coillte-halts-plans-for-tree-felling-in-the-dublin-mountains-1.2988327

Macy0161

JJJJNR wrote: »

Coillte will do anything to make money, e.g. the trees in ballinastoe are hitting maturity now and its only a matter of time before the trails there are destroyed, if they were pro leisure they would leave them but they will be sold at auction like any other.

I think they're conflicted to be fair to them - they're a commercial semi state, that's expected to also act like a not for profit. Very few of their forests aren't used for recreation of some sort, even if it's just locals. So I think it's a bigger debate about the whole aims and status of Coillte that's needed rather than just blame them for acting in their current remit*.

As for ballinastoe, a lot of the official trails are the other side of clearance I would've thought? I haven't too much experience of the unofficial ones - built trails are my level!

*I'd support it moving into a non commercial role, but I really don't know how that would work as presumably the state would still like to supply wood.

It's also not just mountain bikers that unofficially use the forests - horses and scamblers are also technically banned. The latter doing a lot of damage that is blamed on mountain bikes.

Big Nasty

Very few Motocross / Trials bikes in Ticknock these days.

steamsey

muckwarrior wrote: »

Firstly, the most recent felling in Ticknock was on privately owned land, not coilte forest, which is one of the reasons I'd be against organising trail building on an open public forum. In some cases clubs have a relationship with land owners and get permission before building trails on their land. By the way, the reason club forums seem so quiet is because most of the threads are kept to private members-only areas.

Regarding coilte's position, some individuals in it may have no problem with mountain biking, but others certainly do. Evidently they seem willing to tolerate the current situation, where people riding unsanctioned trails make an effort to do so under the radar. However, if hordes of newbies showed up and start injuring themselves or crash into a group of walkers then that could quickly change. All it takes is one law-suit or a few complaints. How can they enforce the bye-law? I don't know and I don't want to find out!

I fully agree that advertising trail building on an open forum is a bad idea. Was all of the felling on private land? I've no understanding of where the land borders are up there. Fully aware that a lot of the chatter happens on member's only areas of forums - been there, done that.

Plenty of people are getting into the sport by all accounts but not sure we have to worry about hordes of newbies just yet.

muckwarrior

I think coilte either needs to be replaced or overhauled. We need someone whose priority is the environment, not profit. https://www.irishtimes.com/culture/heritage/ireland-s-native-woodlands-are-quietly-disappearing-1.3529317#.Wyj1p4IqxAY.facebook

In any case this is getting a bit off topic. If only we had a forum to discuss such things

Macy0161

Big Nasty wrote: »

Very few Motocross / Trials bikes in Ticknock these days.

Maybe not Ticknock, but I've come across the same group a number of times who've come out of Dublin in vans in a few spots in Wicklow - I've met them a few times on the Sally Gap, and a few times around Brown Mountain/ Aghavannagh. I know there's a few locals with scramblers that use the Coiltte woods in my locality too.

steamsey

Big Nasty wrote: »

Very few Motocross / Trials bikes in Ticknock these days.

True - used to see (and hear) them all the time. Used to practically share the forests with them but haven't seen one in years. They did used to tear the place up badly. Plenty of horses around as has always been the case - leaving their ****e all over the place.

Big Nasty

steamsey wrote: »

True - used to see (and hear) them all the time. Used to practically share the forests with them but haven't seen one in years. They did used to tear the place up badly. Plenty of horses around as has always been the case - leaving their ****e all over the place.

I've no issue with any other forest / recreational area users once people are respectful of others and don't put peoples lives in danger.

bogmanfan

I know this is off the original topic, but I encountered a motocross rider up in Ticknock last week. First time in ages, but they are still there.

Back on topic - a separate mountain biking forum or sub-forum makes total sense to me. As someone who cycles on-road and off-road I see them as two very different disciplines. Yes, both involve a bicycle, but Gaelic football and rugby both use a ball. And like this example, the skills and fitness demands are very different in both.

If there is a concern about trail discussion, could forum access be restricted?

JazzyJ

steamsey wrote: »

Was all of the felling on private land? I've no understanding of where the land borders are up there.

FYI, not a great resolution map, but the Coilte lands are designated by the black border (the highlighted areas were the felling plans for 2017).

Macy0161

Meant to say I also +1'd the thread.

I restarted on the mtb last spring, and I've even more stupid questions about mtb's, than I do with my road and commuter, with or without trail talk (most natural trails beyond me anyway).