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Tour de France 2018, July 27, Stage 19: Lourdes > Laruns

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    #152
    mloc123
    Registered Users Posts: 9,454 ✭✭✭mloc123


    dahat wrote: »
    4th in a GT is hardly poor form, not in top form but id hardly call it poor form.

    For somebody that has dominated for... 4-5 years it is tho?


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    #153
    Grassey
    Registered Users Posts: 2,393 ✭✭✭Grassey


    mloc123 wrote:
    For somebody that has dominated for... 4-5 years it is tho?


    Guess it's a level playing field now that everyone knows/is on the magic keto juice from last summers successes?


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    #154
    retalivity
    Registered Users Posts: 14,320 ✭✭✭✭retalivity


    In 2 stages now froome has been on camera with the tongue hanging out doing a voeckler impression, its seems a bit unnatural, and even a bit ....forced?


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    #155
    Sal Butamol
    Closed Accounts Posts: 523 ✭✭✭Sal Butamol


    Marginal losses now that he is more careful with the inhaler?


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    #156
    Lusk_Doyle
    Registered Users Posts: 4,338 ✭✭✭Lusk_Doyle


    retalivity wrote: »
    In 2 stages now froome has been on camera with the tongue hanging out doing a voeckler impression, its seems a bit unnatural, and even a bit ....forced?

    I wondered about that also. I've never seen him do that before.


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    #157
    odyssey06
    Registered Users Posts: 30,487 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    mloc123 wrote: »
    For somebody that has dominated for... 4-5 years it is tho?

    It's also the first time Froome has raced the Tour after the Giro.
    He has 1 Vuelta win out of 6 attempts post-Tour.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



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    #158
    kenmc
    Registered Users Posts: 7,276 ✭✭✭kenmc


    Sprinter Sacre wrote: »
    Meh a classics rider a few years ago to super dom to winning a Tour, it stinks tbh.

    No sky fan here, can't stand them to be honest, they suck the good out of everything, was very disappointed when Nico signed with them, but I'm OK with G winning, especially if it means froombutamol doesn't. At least he seems to have a personality and has worked his way up to being a winner rather than being parachuted in from nowhere.


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    #159
    Lusk_Doyle
    Registered Users Posts: 4,338 ✭✭✭Lusk_Doyle


    mloc123 wrote: »
    For somebody that has dominated for... 4-5 years it is tho?

    All good things must come to an end.


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    #160
    dastardly00
    Registered Users Posts: 13,425 ✭✭✭✭dastardly00


    Sprinter Sacre wrote: »
    Meh a classics rider a few years ago to super dom to winning a Tour, it stinks tbh.

    Hmmmm a few years ago....
    .... How about 2015? That counts as a few years ago doesn't it?

    What was Thomas doing back then?

    Oh yeah, he was coming 4th in the GC in the TdF with three stages remaining. He had a bad day on the penultimate day in the mountains and lost a lot of time, but all the same, not bad for a Classics rider wouldn't you say?


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    #161
    odyssey06
    Registered Users Posts: 30,487 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    Primoz Roglič is 28, he started his career as a ski jumper but then shifted to cycling.

    He just won one of the toughest TdF mountain stages. He is third in the GC.

    His highest previous grand tour placing? 38th in last year's Tour de France.

    I can only imagine what'd be written about him if he was in Sky colours.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



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    #162
    Halloween Jack
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,658 ✭✭✭Halloween Jack


    dastardly00 wrote: »
    Hmmmm a few years ago....
    .... How about 2015? That counts as a few years ago doesn't it?

    What was Thomas doing back then?

    Oh yeah, he was coming 4th in the GC in the TdF with three stages remaining. He had a bad day on the penultimate day in the mountains and lost a lot of time, but all the same, not bad for a Classics rider wouldn't you say?

    He also won e3 harelbeke that year, a race typically won by Sagan, Terpstra, GVA types who can’t climb for ****. So how is he able to do both?


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    #163
    mloc123
    Registered Users Posts: 9,454 ✭✭✭mloc123


    retalivity wrote: »
    In 2 stages now froome has been on camera with the tongue hanging out doing a voeckler impression, its seems a bit unnatural, and even a bit ....forced?

    This is what brought up my previous post... It just seems a little fake.


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    #164
    doccy
    Registered Users Posts: 366 ✭✭doccy


    Its hard coming from the Giro to the Tour and win both, interesting Froome didn't blow up a la Indurain at the end, suggests there's still a few grand tours left in him. Haven't been following cycling as much anymore but that Egan Barnel is a beast.


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    #165
    equivariant
    Registered Users Posts: 966 ✭✭✭equivariant


    Halloween Jack wrote: »
    He also won e3 harelbeke that year, a race typically won by Sagan, Terpstra, GVA types who can’t climb for ****. So how is he able to do both?

    He's a good all rounder and won in a solo break. Nothing unusual about that.

    Nibali won San remo this year. It happens


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    #166
    DonegalBay
    Registered Users Posts: 185 ✭✭DonegalBay


    Macy0161 wrote: »
    It does, if you ignore his steady progression from track to road to classics to lesser week long races to more prestigious week long stage races to super domestique and then this year having protected status/ riding for himself...

    I mean it's not like he was up there with Dan Martin on climbs in the junior tour of Wales....

    I guess the question is this, if you have the potential to win the biggest event in all of cycling, why would you waste most of your career riding track, which despite what the Brits might think, is a minor niche area of the sport compared to road cycling. How many Tours could Thomas have won if he had focused on GTs all his career or at least from his early 20s?

    Bit like staying in the League of Ireland when you could be playing in the Premier League or La Liga etc. Hardly seems logical.


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    #167
    irishrover99
    Registered Users Posts: 2,033 ✭✭✭irishrover99


    Where the hell was this from roglic last week.

    That always seem to wait till the last mountain stage to attack sky and by then it's too late.

    Also Thomas has not had to doing any chasing to close a gap.
    He's always just followed the wheel of someone who is worried about losing their podium place and then he's pounced to win or get a small gap.
    He's played it perfectly.


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    #168
    irishrover99
    Registered Users Posts: 2,033 ✭✭✭irishrover99


    odyssey06 wrote: »
    Primoz Roglič is 28, he started his career as a ski jumper but then shifted to cycling.

    He just won one of the toughest TdF mountain stages. He is third in the GC.

    His highest previous grand tour placing? 38th in last year's Tour de France.

    I can only imagine what'd be written about him if he was in Sky colours.

    Well he hardly looked out of breath at the end of the stage 🙄


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    #169
    dahat
    Registered Users Posts: 16,786 ✭✭✭✭dahat


    Rogolic was caught behind Nibali crash and could have gone very close to winning that stage also.


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    #170
    DonegalBay
    Registered Users Posts: 185 ✭✭DonegalBay


    odyssey06 wrote: »
    Primoz Roglič is 28, he started his career as a ski jumper but then shifted to cycling.

    He just won one of the toughest TdF mountain stages. He is third in the GC.

    His highest previous grand tour placing? 38th in last year's Tour de France.

    I can only imagine what'd be written about him if he was in Sky colours.

    Roglic started cycling in 2012. Imagine starting in A4 Racing and then being a Tour contender six years later😲 Think there is no comparison between Thomas and Roglic. One has had a very long evolution, the other has had a rapid upward career progression. Which is more believable may depend on individual opinion. All I will say is that I know people who have picked up a bike and been amazing from the start. Less so for those with an incredibly long career development.


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    #171
    Macy0161
    Registered Users Posts: 9,450 ✭✭✭Macy0161


    DonegalBay wrote:
    I guess the question is this, if you have the potential to win the biggest event in all of cycling, why would you waste most of your career riding track, which despite what the Brits might think, is a minor niche area of the sport compared to road cycling. How many Tours could Thomas have won if he had focused on GTs all his career or at least from his early 20s?
    He wasn't only riding track, and people forget he's not that old. He was out 21 doing his first tour for barloworld. Track is niche every where else, but it is massive in the UK. Plenty have made a better career out of it than they wouldve on the road.
    He has progressed gradually through the sport, through the road to gc.

    Even the whole "classics rider". Someone should tell Hinault, merckx, lemond, Kelly et al that you couldn't do well in classics and grand tours...


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    #172
    DonegalBay
    Registered Users Posts: 185 ✭✭DonegalBay


    Macy0161 wrote: »
    He wasn't only riding track, and people forget he's not that old. He was out 21 doing his first tour for barloworld. Track is niche every where else, but it is massive in the UK. Plenty have made a better career out of it than they wouldve on the road.
    He has progressed gradually through the sport, through the road to gc.

    Even the whole "classics rider". Someone should tell Hinault, merckx, lemond, Kelly et al that you couldn't do well in classics and grand tours...

    Yes, he was riding road, but why was he focusing on track when he could have been winning GTs. Sorry, winning the Tour even now will far eclipse everything that Thomas ever did on a track. Imagine where his profile would be if he was a multiple Tour winner(not to mention the bank balance). I think only those in events who would not be suited to road, sprinters etc would do better than on the road.

    As for the classics comment, different era, different times.


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    #173
    Weepsie
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 20,457 Mod ✭✭✭✭Weepsie


    In some parts of the world being a 2 time olympic gold medalist carries a hell of a lot more prestige


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    #174
    eeeee
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 6,848 Mod ✭✭✭✭eeeee


    DonegalBay wrote: »
    Yes, he was riding road, but why was he focusing on track when he could have been winning GTs. Sorry, winning the Tour even now will far eclipse everything that Thomas ever did on a track. Imagine where his profile would be if he was a multiple Tour winner(not to mention the bank balance). I think only those in events who would not be suited to road, sprinters etc would do better than on the road.

    As for the classics comment, different era, different times.

    It's a question of perspective. The Tour is a bigger event, unquestionably. It has a much bigger audience. Personally I see track success as far greater than road success. It takes the same amount of commitment, hard work, talent, dedication and effort to be world class at a sport irrespective of it's audience figures and commercial success. His track past has not hurt his present success one bit.

    I find track racing infinitely more interesting, engaging and exciting than long tedious road stages. Same goes for my own racing! I'd watch a track meet ten times over a road stage. The classics are interesting I'll give you that but GT's are undeniably boring to watch. 2 hours of speed, intensity and excitement v 6 hours of a GT road stage? I know which one I chose.


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    #175
    irishrover99
    Registered Users Posts: 2,033 ✭✭✭irishrover99


    The problem for Thomas is, that not so long ago a four time? track Olympic gold medalist won the tour and then the Olympic TT but then along came a Jiffy bag and ruined everything.

    Both these guys have had similar careers on the bike with the same team.

    I actually don't mind Thomas or Froome for that matter, it's just sky's tactics that I hate.

    They never had one rider in a break away the whole race so far.


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    #176
    DonegalBay
    Registered Users Posts: 185 ✭✭DonegalBay


    Weepsie wrote: »
    In some parts of the world being a 2 time olympic gold medalist carries a hell of a lot more prestige

    I would say only in sports in which Olympics are the biggest event e.g. athletics, swimming etc.

    Not the case in cycling(granted in track it is) or football, golf etc. I think the only reason track seems big is because Britain is successful and we get so much of their media. Most countries it is less than relevant unless they are doing well in it.


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    #177
    CantGetNoSleep
    Registered Users Posts: 7,251 ✭✭✭CantGetNoSleep


    irishrover99 wrote: »
    The problem for Thomas is, that not so long ago a four time? track Olympic gold medalist won the tour and then the Olympic TT but then along came a Jiffy bag and ruined everything.

    Both these guys have had similar careers on the bike with the same team.

    I actually don't mind Thomas or Froome for that matter, it's just sky's tactics that I hate.

    They never had one rider in a break away the whole race so far.

    I also hate their tactics, but they haven't needed a rider in a break at all in this tour, would have been a bit stupid to put someone up the road


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    #178
    doccy
    Registered Users Posts: 366 ✭✭doccy


    I dont think Thomas' win is any more spectacular than Wiggins to be fair. He has pedigree a la Wiggins, if anything questions could be aimed at Froome and his dominance which harked back to a previous era, Thomas not so much - he was very unspectacular. Looking at Sky on the road it was clear the race was half won just by being in that team.


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    #179
    DonegalBay
    Registered Users Posts: 185 ✭✭DonegalBay


    nee wrote: »
    It's a question of perspective. The Tour is a bigger event, unquestionably. It has a much bigger audience. Personally I see track success as far greater than road success. It takes the same amount of commitment, hard work, talent, dedication and effort to be world class at a sport irrespective of it's audience figures and commercial success. His track past has not hurt his present success one bit.

    I find track racing infinitely more interesting, engaging and exciting than long tedious road stages. Same goes for my own racing! I'd watch a track meet ten times over a road stage. The classics are interesting I'll give you that but GT's are undeniably boring to watch. 2 hours of speed, intensity and excitement v 6 hours of a GT road stage? I know which one I chose.


    Some track events are exciting, some are less interesting, but there is the variation. Hard to beat the beauty of the GTs, cant say I would be interested in riding around a track. I actually prefer cross and the classics over the GTs. Flanders/Roubaix is my favourite week of the year.


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    #180
    Weepsie
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 20,457 Mod ✭✭✭✭Weepsie


    DonegalBay wrote: »
    I think the only reason track seems big is because Britain is successful and we get so much of their media. Most countries it is less than relevant unless they are doing well in it.

    This is just nonsense, like on the other thread.

    There are plenty of countries which take it very, very seriously, and gear towards the olympics every 4 years and nothing else. The track athletes are some of the elitest of the elite. Belittle it all you want, but you're wrong.

    You'd be hard pressed to find many of the roadies smashing out 50+. Kmph for an hour nonstop outside of a peleton. Equally you won't see Hoy racing up Ventoux any time soon


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    #181
    DonegalBay
    Registered Users Posts: 185 ✭✭DonegalBay


    Weepsie wrote: »
    This is just nonsense, like on the other thread.

    There are plenty of countries which take it very, very seriously, and gear towards the olympics every 4 years and nothing else. The track athletes are some of the elitest of the elite. Belittle it all you want, but you're wrong.

    You'd be hard pressed to find many of the roadies smashing out 50+. Kmph for an hour nonstop outside of a peleton. Equally you won't see Hoy racing up Ventoux any time soon

    Really, what other countries have poured money into track the way Britain have? Maybe Australia, outside of that? In the traditional cycling nations, France, Italy, Spain, Belgium, track pales in insignificance to road cycling. Cyclo-cross is way bigger in Belgium which is perhaps the top cycling nation in the world.


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