Do other first world countries suffer from "junkie/scumbag" problem that Ireland does

MarkY91

MayoSalmon wrote: »

You have obviously never been to any large city in the states...homelessness over there is almost a lifestyle choice the set ups some of them have!

I've only been to last Vegas there which was infested by homelessness. I don't think kit matters though as I was just commenting on our problem and not America's problem.

Although I know quite well from movies and documentaries etc a out their issues. Skidrow is like the 3rd world as are parts of Detroit and many, many other places there.

Every country has junkies, but not every country allows them to hang around the city centre where tourists are. Why are we an exception? The tourists are obviously going home and passing remarks on how dodgy Dublin is just like we all know how Amsterdam, Paris, San Fransisco etc are full of homeless and junkies. It's such a Shame that they're allowed to give our capital city a bad look. I was in Vienna a few months ago, I seen 2 dodgy looking junkies at the train station. They were the first and last junkies I've seen the whole weekend. They're doing something over there that our retarded police force clearly aren't doing.

Hitman3000

Pretzeluck wrote:

Berlin, Paris, Rome. You will not find junkies in the city centre begging for coin. You have military patrolling there and throwing them out.

I was in Berlin two years ago, had a beer at a restaurant near the Brandenburg gate. Saw several beggars, same thing at the Spanish steps in Rome when I was there last year. Where are these areas you go to with no beggars/junkies?

Sofiztikated

Pretzeluck wrote: »

Berlin, Paris, Rome. You will not find junkies in the city centre begging for coin. You have military patrolling there and throwing them out.

Well that's just bollix.

I've seen people sleeping/goofing on the Pantheon, you can't go 5 steps around the Colloseum without getting hassled to buy some trinket, and Berlin has full blown squats.

Mike Hoch

techdiver wrote: »

I think a point is spectacularly missed by many posters on here. Yes we know many countries and cities have their anti-social/crime issues etc and that Ireland is by far an away one of the safest countries in the world, but, I have yet to travel to countries where the main thoroughfare is infested with drug addicts and scumbags/dealers the way Dublin is.


I've been to London, New York, Chicago, Vegas, Rome, Boston, Miami, etc etc and I have not seen such obvious social decay in the main tourist spots in those cities.

.

George's St in Sydney is the main business thoroughfare of the city. It's thronged with loud, aggressive crystal meth addicts. Police foot patrols don't exist. Nor do security on the doors of takeaways- it's fairly standard practice to be sitting in McDonalds and have some junkball come up to you looking for money unchallenged by staff, or to see one passed out in the jacks on heroin. It's the main street of a major city and it's standard to see screaming meth heads roaring about. The media here have been predicting the impending meth and crack epidemic for about 20 years now and it by and large hasn't materialised.

Last time I was in Prague, while I wouldn't say the main strip had many visible junkies, what it did have was black lads mixing club promotions with offers of drugs, Granted, their market was the stag do crowd but for those who say open air drug dealing on the main throughfare* is a uniquely Dublin thing, I'd tend to disagree. Not to mention I've seen open drug pedalling in nearly every resort type place I've been. All throughout SE Asia, Spain. Offered a coke connect the second I got into an Amsterdam taxi, the streets there used to be awash with street dealers (they seem to be gone now). This simply doesn't happen in Dublin for whatever reason.


I'd tend to even disagree that dealing is done on O'Connell St with any degree of regularity. There are swaps on the adjoining areas granted, the Boardwalk and Talbot and such, but OC itself? Gerrup the yard. My whole life I've been offered drugs by strangers on the main streets of Dublin a grand total of twice (excluding inside clubs, raves, festivals). Even the rickshaw drivers only talk if you talk first, and even plenty of them refuse to have anything to do with it. I've walked up and down Moore St a thousand times and I'm yet to encounter the street corner black dealers so many on social media are adamant are making a fortune there. I don't disbelieve that some on Moore St who operate in the drug trade operate front businesses, but as for street level I've never seen a shot of it.

Mike Hoch

Deleted User wrote: »

Scumbags have been phased out gradually since the early 2010s and they are almost extinct now as far as I can see. People are much more conscious of their own behaviour and how they appear than they were before smartphones made everyone feel they have to put their highest-status-appearance-self out to the world. You rarely see anti-social behaviour in broad daylight nowadays or even on nights out. You no longer see groups of scary young men in hoods and tracksuits, lads who grew up in actual deprivation, lads always a few years behind in fashion. The same guys and girls whose older relatives were happy to go on the dole now feel socially compelled to have a “career” and access to third level for all has laid the blame at the feet of individuals for not having a high status job, impelling everyone to work harder on average. Teenagers engage in less drug taking, drinking, underage sex etc than before apparently. People in general drink less. There has been a middle-class-isation of irish society in the last decade, having the effect of making the society appear more socioeconomically homogenous, and this was caused my many factors in combination.

I'd agree with a lot of this. I don't know if the crime stats would tell the same, but anecdotally I think yungfellas these days seem to be less scobie than the generations that preceded them. There's still scumbags out there, but teenage lads these days seem more obsessed with the gym than causing hassle in their community.

For whatever reason, Irish society is getting better looking. The teenage girls of my day were, judging on photos and old films, better looking than those of the 80s. The young ones today are better looking than in my day. 20 years ago it was almost unheard of to see a woman in her 40's that was in any way shape or form attractive, now they take care of themselves. 12 years ago you could tell what we used to refer to as "a Sharon" compared to the more demure looking respectable types. The trackies, the big hoops, the sovereigns. The 18 year old Sharon still exists attitude wise, but these days she doesn't look as far away from Sorcha from Castleknock as she did 15 years ago.

AllForIt

I was sitting by the window seat in McDonalds on O'Connel street once and I saw a guy standing outside the window pass pills to another guy right there in front of me. In the middle of the day say 3pm ish in broad daylight. I worked in the west end of London for years and all I saw there was the odd homeless person. Really freaky ones that had wore plastic bags tied around themselves as clothes. Didn't see any obvious drug dealing going on. The point is I didn't see it whether it goes on there or not.

4068ac1elhodqr

Begging in Dublin has become so common that its the biggest complaint tourists have about visiting the city.
It says here, also that in 2017 aggressive begging was up 200 percent.

https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/dublin-city-begging-pubs-atms-12991199

Mutant z

Yes the UK for one go to any inner city area over there and you will see the exact same problems as here.

Mike Hoch

Mike Hoch wrote: »

.
12 years ago you could tell what we used to refer to as "a Sharon" compared to the more demure looking respectable types. The trackies, the big hoops, the sovereigns. The 18 year old Sharon still exists attitude wise, but these days she doesn't look as far away from Sorcha from Castleknock as she did 15 years ago.

Universal access to unlimited information has eroded the fashion treadmill that always existed until then. For example, in 2006 rich south dublin kids wore Abercrombie, by 2009 it was commonly worn by lower middle class college students and by about 2011 it has trickled down to working class kids, with upper middle class kids no longer wearing it. Nowadays a working class kid knows as much about fashions that come out as the upper middle class kid so can look the same as them. Same goes for haircuts, attitudes etc. The internet has led to social homogeneity. People who used to be recognised as “scumbags” used to just be acting naturally, un-self-consciously by looking and acting the way they were. Since social media and internet access for all led to a self-awareness revolution, nobody wants to appear to be a scumbag because it means they are low status and so they have modified their behaviour.

Mike Hoch

Deleted User wrote: »

Universal access to unlimited information has eroded the fashion treadmill that always existed until then. For example, in 2006 rich south dublin kids wore Abercrombie, by 2009 it was commonly worn by lower middle class college students and by about 2011 it has trickled down to working class kids, with upper middle class kids no longer wearing it. Nowadays a working class kid knows as much about fashions that come out as the upper middle class kid so can look the same as them. Same goes for haircuts, attitudes etc. The internet has led to social homogeneity. People who used to be recognised as “scumbags” used to just be acting naturally, un-self-consciously by looking and acting the way they were. Since social media and internet access for all led to a self-awareness revolution, nobody wants to appear to be a scumbag because it means they are low status and so they have modified their behaviour.

I'd still say Nike etc tops and trackies are far more likely to be worn as daily wear by working class people than upper class, but Adidas seem to have reinvented themselves as a label for all, a lot of celebrities get pictured wearing their gear, they use attractive models on their promo stuff etc. I'd agree with the haircut point mind- half the young lads these days have boyband haircuts. It wouldn't have been seen 10 years ago.

The funny thing with fashion, I was watching The Van a few months ago, Sharon is wearing a black Adidas shirt that 5 years ago you'd have called late 80s early 90s but which is back on sale today, same shirt. It's mad how these things go in cycles.

On the topic, what's the story with these black jackets that look like heavy padded jackets but are light as feck and have no arms on them. Every lad under about 22 seems to wear one, even in the summer. What's the point in them?

Star Bingo

Mike Hoch wrote: »

I'd agree with a lot of this. I don't know if the crime stats would tell the same, but anecdotally I think yungfellas these days seem to be less scobie than the generations that preceded them. There's still scumbags out there, but teenage lads these days seem more obsessed with the gym than causing hassle in their community.

Many still don’t make it out of the sports wear they’re practically born into these days but if putting it to correct use then it’s understandable.

However if still wearing that getup whilst on the gear then there’s no hope really...double whammy! Only ones I know are a bit more cultured / casual. Which helps detract from the fact their faces are caving in but yes its a more wholesome teen all in all I suppose you might say

elperello

Tourism is a big earner for Ireland.
Those Americans in the OP paid a lot of money to come to Dublin.
No point in telling them that other places are as bad or worse.
They have just spent their vacation money for the year to come here.
Their feedback is useful and should be listened to and acted on.

Hitman3000

elperello wrote:

Tourism is a big earner for Ireland. Those Americans in the OP paid a lot of money to come to Dublin. No point in telling them that other places are as bad or worse. They have just spent their vacation money for the year to come here. Their feedback is useful and should be listened to and acted on.

I went to the States and I saw junkies and homeless aswell. Part of life.

4068ac1elhodqr

All very well comparing to other capital cities (some better/worse), but one article says

“The facts and figures show that in 2017 aggressive begging was up 200 percent.
https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/dublin-city-begging-pubs-atms-12991199
(not exactly sure where the figures come from, Failte Ireland perhaps).

Is that acceptable if it's true?
Twice as many aggressive beggers in just 1yr.

MadDog76

AllForIt wrote: »

I was sitting by the window seat in McDonalds on O'Connel street once and I saw a guy standing outside the window pass pills to another guy right there in front of me. In the middle of the day say 3pm ish in broad daylight. I worked in the west end of London for years and all I saw there was the odd homeless person. Really freaky ones that had wore plastic bags tied around themselves as clothes. Didn't see any obvious drug dealing going on. The point is I didn't see it whether it goes on there or not.

That is absolutely shocking........ eating McDonald's in the middle of the day!!?!!!

MadDog76

elperello wrote: »

Tourism is a big earner for Ireland.
Those Americans in the OP paid a lot of money to come to Dublin.
No point in telling them that other places are as bad or worse.
They have just spent their vacation money for the year to come here.
Their feedback is useful and should be listened to and acted on.

I've spent literally 10's of thousands of euros, and dollars, in and travelling to the US and the things I've seen there would make a billy goat puke....... am I entitled to some kind of refund or compensation?

fritzelly

Big difference between here and many other cities is that the "homeless" get paid quite well for their lifestyle without having to beg.

corner of hells

MadDog76 wrote: »

That is absolutely shocking........ eating McDonald's in the middle of the day!!?!!!

It'd be pretty impressive if we got the likes of McDonald's out of o connell at.

gormdubhgorm

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

There’s junkies in most cities. Our junkies look hideous though. Irish people tend to be grotesquely ugly, and injecting heroin doesn’t help either.

corner of hells

fritzelly wrote: »

Big difference between here and many other cities is that the "homeless" get paid quite well for their lifestyle without having to beg.

Here ?

mvl

elperello wrote: »

Tourism is a big earner for Ireland.
Those Americans in the OP paid a lot of money to come to Dublin.
No point in telling them that other places are as bad or worse.
They have just spent their vacation money for the year to come here.
Their feedback is useful and should be listened to and acted on.

From where I am concerned, this may be another piece of media news that has an agenda.
But, I don't care about what these american tourists spent on their travels: if they do spend, they are not more entitled than the locals.
So, how much are the locals bothered about this is the a question I would have instead. For sure you should act based on what your tax payer wants/needs most of all ...

pinksoir

Pretzeluck wrote: »

Berlin, Paris, Rome. You will not find junkies in the city centre begging for coin. You have military patrolling there and throwing them out.

You're talking shit. I live in Berlin and there's junkies everywhere.

Autochange

pinksoir wrote: »

You're talking shit. I live in Berlin and there's junkies everywhere.

Local ones or imported?

Mike Hoch

Autochange wrote: »

Local ones or imported?

I met German backpackers too tight to spend money on food and toiletries, they used to eat and shower at soup kitchens.

To think there are Germans out there who buy drugs blows my mind.

Autochange

Mike Hoch wrote: »

I met German backpackers too tight to spend money on food and toiletries, they used to eat and shower at soup kitchens.

To think there are Germans out there who buy drugs blows my mind.

There is medication for that

pinksoir

Autochange wrote: »

Local ones or imported?

Both. But tbh most of Berlin is blow-ins. From elsewhere in Germany, Europe, and further afield. It's surprising to meet an original Berliner.

Das Reich

pinksoir wrote: »

You're talking shit. I live in Berlin and there's junkies everywhere.

Went several times there and never saw it.

pinksoir

You're the expert so.

Pretzeluck

MadDog76 wrote: »

I've spent literally 10's of thousands of euros, and dollars, in and travelling to the US and the things I've seen there would make a billy goat puke....... am I entitled to some kind of refund or compensation?

I've lived in capitals of all 28 European Union countries and all 50 US states and I can confirm that you're talking ****e.

weemcd

I live in Belfast, and I've been down in Dublin many times over the years.

I was down a couple of months ago, and I have to say I really did notice the amount of dodgy/junkie looking types everywhere. It has to be on the rise.

I don't remember noticing it as much before.

ziggyman17

Well a new detox center is being built in Dublin 8, a stones throw for tourist areas, does the people running this country not do any planning or thinking.. Its being built at Ushers Island..........Planning gone in and approved......

corner of hells

ziggyman17 wrote: »

Well a new detox center is being built in Dublin 8, a stones throw for tourist areas, does the people running this country not do any planning or thinking.. Its being built at Ushers Island..........Planning gone in and approved......

Simon have an existing medical detox and respite centre there already.
They do great work often following through housing people.

ziggyman17

corner of hells wrote: »

Simon have an existing medical detox and respite centre there already.
They do great work often following through housing people.

its being knocked down and a six storey building is is being built on its site...

Greentopia

Sofiztikated wrote: »

Well that's just bollix.

I've seen people sleeping/goofing on the Pantheon, you can't go 5 steps around the Colloseum without getting hassled to buy some trinket, and Berlin has full blown squats.

Rome has some very dodgy areas alright. I went there once and had prostitutes plying their trade outside the hotel and saw huge number of Africans selling tat and Roma beggars, especially near the train station. Was warned by Italian friends not to hang around there and keep my handbag very safe as there's pick pockets everywhere.
Still preferable to being aggressively asked for change by walking dead junkies while I wait for a bus or LUAS in Dublin though IMO.

Berlin has a population of around 3.5 million to Dublin city's 550,000 and it's a lot bigger so not really fair to compare the too, but I never noticed junkies around the Mitte on the streets. Lots of alcoholics, junkies and homeless around the train stations yes, but none of them ever bothered me on the streets or were really visible like they are in Dublin. And Berlin is considered the problem child of Germany economically and the least German of any city. Which is maybe why I like it so much :pac:

And what's wrong with squats? they've had them in Berlin since the fall of the wall. They look colourful, co-exist peacefully with their neighbours and populated by everyone from anarchists, punks and young people who can't afford rising rents in the city to respectable OAP'S and families with children. They're clean and have open houses that offer everything from cheap meals for tourists to classical music concerts and art exhibitions. Some have theatres and restaurants.

I was inside one in Kreuzberg and they're far from the grim and grotty junkie and homeless hangouts you seem to imagine.

Hitman3000

Pretzeluck wrote:

I've lived in capitals of all 28 European Union countries and all 50 US states and I can confirm that you're talking ****e.

Now this is the very defination of talking sh*te.

the purple tin

Mike Hoch wrote: »

George's St in Sydney is the main business thoroughfare of the city. It's thronged with loud, aggressive crystal meth addicts. Police foot patrols don't exist. Nor do security on the doors of takeaways- it's fairly standard practice to be sitting in McDonalds and have some junkball come up to you looking for money unchallenged by staff, or to see one passed out in the jacks on heroin. It's the main street of a major city and it's standard to see screaming meth heads roaring about. The media here have been predicting the impending meth and crack epidemic for about 20 years now and it by and large hasn't materialised.

Last time I was in Prague, while I wouldn't say the main strip had many visible junkies, what it did have was black lads mixing club promotions with offers of drugs, Granted, their market was the stag do crowd but for those who say open air drug dealing on the main throughfare* is a uniquely Dublin thing, I'd tend to disagree. Not to mention I've seen open drug pedalling in nearly every resort type place I've been. All throughout SE Asia, Spain. Offered a coke connect the second I got into an Amsterdam taxi, the streets there used to be awash with street dealers (they seem to be gone now). This simply doesn't happen in Dublin for whatever reason.


I'd tend to even disagree that dealing is done on O'Connell St with any degree of regularity. There are swaps on the adjoining areas granted, the Boardwalk and Talbot and such, but OC itself? Gerrup the yard. My whole life I've been offered drugs by strangers on the main streets of Dublin a grand total of twice (excluding inside clubs, raves, festivals). Even the rickshaw drivers only talk if you talk first, and even plenty of them refuse to have anything to do with it. I've walked up and down Moore St a thousand times and I'm yet to encounter the street corner black dealers so many on social media are adamant are making a fortune there. I don't disbelieve that some on Moore St who operate in the drug trade operate front businesses, but as for street level I've never seen a shot of it.

I've only been offered drugs in Dublin once and the guy was definetly getting high on his own supply, on the other hand I was in Amsterdam a few times over the years and walking aroundthe streets every 5 minutes someone was offering to sell us cocaine day and night.

I've noticed that the majority of drug seizures and arrests for drug dealing and use in this country are for cannibis and cocaine. Why are so few heroin users arrested when they are so brazen about it in public.

4068ac1elhodqr

Paris seems to have to pot these days, sure their big pointy tower has a new perma-security barrier around it now.

Not sure about junkies, but one report suggests there is 300,000 illegal migrants in one suburb, with little regard for French law/traditions.
They may not be breaking laws, but needless to say if living off-radar, they may be doing what ever they need to do - in order to get by.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6001135/A-devastating-report-reveals-300-000-illegal-migrants-living-one-French-suburb.html

Thoughtform

It's been established well on this thread that drug addicts, beggars and pickpockets are not unique to any western capital/major city, but I think why it gets remarked upon is due to a combination of: the visibility in the city centre (not some place off the beaten track or a "needle park", but right in one of the main thoroughfares), a romantic ideal of Dublin, and inadequate policing.

"Scumbags"/"chavs" seem more anglophone - think of the beauties in Ireland and Britain... now could you imagine them in Germany, France, Italy, Scandinavia? And again, inadequate policing.

partyguinness

No Op.


I'm afraid that I can confirm that Ireland is the only first world country that 'suffer' with junkie/scumbag problem.


Other first world countries found a solution decades ago but we have yet to make it work.


Hence you will not find a single junkie/scumbag anywhere else in the first world.


There you go OP. Is that the rebuttal you expected.