Deirdre Jacob missing twenty years Today.

Edgware

smelly sock wrote: »

They are obviously getting drip fed info from the Guards.

Heres the thing,

AGS can leak all of this info to the media but they cant tell us what the new evidence is. And probably never will. Something doesnt look right. Why go to the media at all if the information is so strong as to be able to reclass this from missing person to murder.

I cant understand why the officer in charge hasn't contacted you and give you a briefing. I'm sure he would like to avail of your expertise as to how to progress the investigation

catrat12

Did I read correctly that a certain person was working in deirde Jacobs grannies house before she went missing or is this made up

freshpopcorn

catrat12 wrote: »

Did I read correctly that a certain person was working in deirde Jacobs grannies house before she went missing or is this made up

From my understanding is that Larry Murphy out up a sign in her grandmother's shop offering his woodwork services years before she went missing.

catrat12

freshpopcorn wrote: »

From my understanding is that Larry Murphy out up a sign in her grandmother's shop offering his woodwork services years before she went missing.

Was he not working in a pub in newbridge the day she went missing

smelly sock

Edgware wrote: »

I cant understand why the officer in charge hasn't contacted you and give you a briefing. I'm sure he would like to avail of your expertise as to how to progress the investigation

No no. Im not a criminal investigator. I do have an opinion though. Wow , someone with an opinion on a forum. Down with that sort of thing.

smelly sock

catrat12 wrote: »

Did I read correctly that a certain person was working in deirde Jacobs grannies house before she went missing or is this made up

There is a link. There was a card or ad found amongst the granny's things with Larry offering his services. So in theory he could well have known DJ from calling to tbe shop.

freshpopcorn

catrat12 wrote: »

Was he not working in a pub in newbridge the day she went missing

It might be out there on the internet somewhere.
All I know is Deirdres parents wanted to cool down the rumours that he did work on the grandmother's shop and asked people to keep an open mind.

The_Kew_Tour

Scary to think what that poor Girl had go through.

Her life destroyed and over. Poor parents and family.

I feel too for Jo Jo Dullard sister who went to her grave not knowing what happened her poor sister.

Sometimes I don't realise how lucky I am. Stuff of nightmare's

murpho999

smelly sock wrote: »

Drip feeding info to the press for a start. What purpose does that serve?

The Independent article does not quote any actual sources within the Gardai and the Gardai have also not publically named any suspect.

Malayalam

How did that person get out of jail after 10 years considering he kidnapped, brutalised, twice raped and was interrupted in the act of actively trying to murder a woman? 10 years?????

Omackeral

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

Would this be considered another Garda fcuk up?

murpho999 wrote: »

How? What have they done wrong?

Not saying it's the Gardai's fault but they had him in custody for near 10 years. You'd think he'd be a sitting duck there. As I understand it, he never once co-operated, if that's the right word, with any questionings re: the missing while inside (he was interviewed). Then again he never undertook any rehabilitation courses or training while serving time so he could just be an utter unrepentant f*ck. It's actually wrong that prisoners get remission if they don't try to do a course, Murphy should've served it to the day and got nothing off.

starbaby2003

Malayalam wrote: »

How did that person get out of jail after 10 years considering he kidnapped, brutalised, twice raped and was interrupted in the act of actively trying to murder a woman? 10 years?????

And refused any counselling or interactions with . psychiatrist. Should never have been left out !

Lillyfae

murpho999 wrote: »

smelly sock wrote: »

Drip feeding info to the press for a start. What purpose does that serve?

The Independent article does not quote any actual sources within  the Gardai and the Gardai have also not publically named any suspect.

I'm also not sure why they say that he's known to be in the UK and if he sets foot back in Ireland he'll be arrested, why would they release this info and think he'd have any notion of coming back? Why can't they issue an international arrest warrant? Wasn't he being monitored by Interpol and the Dutch police when he was living in Amsterdam?

marklazarcovic

I'd say they know precisely where he is and have been monitoring him with UK police since this info, probably hoping he will panic now and make a mistake

smelly sock

Malayalam wrote: »

How did that person get out of jail after 10 years considering he kidnapped, brutalised, twice raped and was interrupted in the act of actively trying to murder a woman? 10 years?????

According to another poster ring your TD.

Laois_Man

smelly sock wrote: »

I hope the new info and evidence is strong. Otherwise its gonna look shoddy for not going after him much stronger earlier.

If it is LM. The vanishings stopped when he went to prison.

The last vanishing was Deidre Jacob in July 1998 and it occurred two and a half years before Murphy was caught in February 2000

murpho999

marklazarcovic wrote: »

I'd say they know precisely where he is and have been monitoring him with UK police since this info, probably hoping he will panic now and make a mistake

What sort of mistake?

It's up to the Gardai to get evidence to have him arrested.

I think too many people here watch too many TV cop shows and think that's how real policing works.

smelly sock

Laois_Man wrote: »

The last vanishing was Deidre Jacob in July 1998 and it occurred two and a half years before Murphy was caught in February 2000

Exaclty my point.

smelly sock

murpho999 wrote: »

What sort of mistake?

It's up to the Gardai to get evidence to have him arrested.

I think too many people here watch too many TV cop shows and think that's how real policing works.

Its not to far off the mark with irish policing as we have seen over the years.

murpho999

smelly sock wrote: »

Its not to far off the mark with irish policing as we have seen over the years.

What are you referring to?

The gardai have a pretty good conviction rate when it comes to murders.(Outside gangland)

coco0981

smelly sock wrote: »

Its not to far off the mark with irish policing as we have seen over the years.

Everyone's an expert on the internet. Strangely not too many infallible in the real work world, we all make mistakes at some point. Even Garda with the best intentions will make errors but in general they are up there with the best

ger vallely

They had no idea where he was a few years back. I was at the bad end of that. There was rumors around our area in the curtain twitching part of rural Galway that he was staying in my home!!!! We were blow ins. The local community had a meeting on what to do about the whole situation. Long story short- special branch came searching our gardens when we were working, Gardaí called to speak to us and I ended up chatting with the head of the sexual assault unit for county Galway. The Gardaí told us they knew where he was but when I asked why they then felt the need to question us and search our property, they fobbed us off. He was wandering either around Ireland or elsewhere, unchecked. Absolutely crazy.

Laois_Man

Chief Supt Sutton told Independent.ie yesterday he believed there were people who had information about Deirdre’s disappearance at the time but chose not to come forward.

I can't believe there would have been a single person willfully have been hiding information about this for LM since 1998. I don't think he has any person in his life from that time for the last 17 or 18 years!

smelly sock

murpho999 wrote: »

What are you referring to?

The gardai have a pretty good conviction rate when it comes to murders.(Outside gangland)

I mean overall confidence in AGS has taken a serious battering in the last 5 years or so for various and obvious reasons.

coco0981

There was a lot of archaeological finds because of the dry weather this summer making foundations visible where they weren't before. I'm wondering would the same principles have applied to a burial site in fields/woodland?

Riskymove

coco0981 wrote: »

I'm wondering would the same principles have applied to a burial site in fields/woodland?

if they had found a body it would be reported and family told

reg114

So 2 weeks after the 20 year anniversary of the disappearance of this girl the Gardai suddenly change the status of this case to a murder case ? I think this is kite flying by the gardai , pure and simple.

If as has been written, the chief suspect is in the UK and would be collared the minute he stepped on to Irish soil then why dont the gardai extradite him based on the 'new information' that has come to light ? Extradition exists in the EU so why not employ it in this case, subsequent to employing a european arrest warrant?

No I dont believe the gardai have anything other than hearsay and conjecture to work on, primarily because the person who committed this crime most probably worked alone and divulged details to no one.

The dogs in the street have implicated the chief suspect for years, a case strengthened by the apparent cessation of these disappearances during his incarceration and his subsequent departure from the country.

Sadly I dont share peoples' confidence in Irish law enforcement or the judicial system. This chief suspect was only caught because he was literally caught red handed but two local men who could identify him and even at that stage he only served 9.5 years in jail and has been free to roam ever since.

The reclassification of this woman's disappearance to a murder guarantees one thing, that he wont set foot on irish soil willingly again, as for new evidence, I think in the absence of an extradition its sadly nonsense.

Huexotzingo

I think the Larry Murphy speculation is a red herring.

Even her parents dismissed it.

I'd say she knew her killer and the Gardai are trying to keep him unsuspecting.

listermint

coco0981 wrote: »

There was a lot of archaeological finds because of the dry weather this summer making foundations visible where they weren't before. I'm wondering would the same principles have applied to a burial site in fields/woodland?

Yes the same principal most definitely applies.

When soil is disturbed. and later in dry hot weather grass differentiation and soil outlines appear quite well from aerial views.

This is a core facet of historical body searches in the US.

listermint

Interesting part of all this is the right to be forgotten laws in the EU.

There is scant information on releases of similar offenders in Ireland. You may find 1 or 2 articles naming a person but the rest are all removed under data laws. Im not saying that people should not have the right to move on as such after time served.

However its extraordinary that someone can rape and then murder a woman and then scrub most everything containing his name from the online record.

Ash.J.Williams

Who's the gob****e that brought Larry Murphy into this... Senior source my hole

Beechwoodspark

Seems odd they let the anniversary pass only a few week ago without this update

Mike Hoch

The Indo article stinks if you ask me.

The "source" claims he would be arrested the second he set foot in Ireland, but that there isn't the evidence to justify a European arrest warrant.

Says he is residing in England.

If I recall correctly an EU state has the right to refuse admission to/ deport people from other member states who have served a prison term of at least, I think, 3 years elsewhere in Europe.


If they can't extradite him why not petition the UK to deport him?

Why is the fact a foreign probable serial killer is roaming freely in the UK not the front page of the Daily Mail?


Not to mention that it's only a few months ago that one report claimed he was living in some sort of halfway house in Dublin.


The Indo is also claiming that Gerry Hutch would be arrested and charged if he ever comes home, yet the Gardai seem to be in no hurry to extradite him.

coco0981

Riskymove wrote: »

if they had found a body it would be reported and family told

Jesus I'm not suggesting the Garda have found a body. I was just wondering if there was an opportunity to do some basic visual searches by helicopter/foot in certain areas that the Garda suspect may have been used for burial sites given how the weather was showing up archaeological sites all over Europe

Riskymove

coco0981 wrote: »

Jesus I'm not suggesting the Garda have found a body. I was just wondering if there was an opportunity to do some basic visual searches by helicopter/foot in certain areas that the Garda suspect may have been used for burial sites given how the weather was showing up archaeological sites all over Europe

ok that's clearer

may well be - also the water level in lakes etc. would be low

Laois_Man

Huexotzingo wrote: »

I think the Larry Murphy speculation is a red herring.

The media know that name Larry Murphy sells papers and they'll use that name at any excuse.

This is nothing to do with Larry Murphy!

murpho999

smelly sock wrote: »

I mean overall confidence in AGS has taken a serious battering in the last 5 years or so for various and obvious reasons.

Stuff like the breath test and whistleblower scandal does not mean they have got things wrong in a missing persons/murder casd.

Day Lewin

New and substantial evidence. More than one witness. Persons being urged to review their reactions dating from the time when the DJ case was "new". All this following a renewed appeal on cold case review at the 20 yr. anniversary.

I don't want to raise crazy notions; but these few scraps above point much more to some person or persons not previously named, possibly local, possibly with connections to neighbourhood; somebody whose own colleagues or family might reconsider their position.

The culprit might have died, or made a significant admission in old age. Or some family member of the criminal might have "come clean" about a suspicious incident, etc.

OR - I mean, also - real forensic evidence may have been finally found, eg a shoe found in a garden or a handbag in woodland --- anything of that kind.
It was always a frustrating aspect of these "Missing women" cases - Dollard and McCarrick too - that there was no forensic AT ALL: no footprints, no eye-witness, no scrap of clothing or drop of blood, nothing.
So if something has showed up it counts as a serious clue.

I really really hope they nail this one: whoever did it has caused such pain and sorrow - and I DO think they deserve the death sentence - they have dealt it to others, after all.

OB1Kildare

there are 2 other theories on this that have been going around locally for years .
The first is on the road where her house is - DJ would have had to walk past a big halting site on her way home .....something that is never mentioned in any media reports. there was talk locally of 3 people heading to the uk the week after she disappeared from there.

The Lm connection seems to be pushed by the media - her parents have stated that he never worked in their shop and the story of the cheque stub being found in her granny files after she passed away are not true. What is true however is that at the time LM was working on 2 local pubs.....but where DJ lives would be the complete opposite direction for his route home.

There was also a story about a unusual activity and noise coming from an area of the curragh on the night she went missing ...just last week the guarda helicopter was in that area flying really low and they looked to be mapping it . I happened to be out when I spotted them and couldnt figure out what they were doing ...but now that makes more sense- i headed home after about 30mins and they were still going over and back on the same area .

marklazarcovic

murpho999 wrote: »

What sort of mistake?

It's up to the Gardai to get evidence to have him arrested.

I think too many people here watch too many TV cop shows and think that's how real policing works.

Panic perhaps,try do a runner,who's to say

Day Lewin

There was another criminal at large at about the same period; a person later arrested, (in 1999) and charged with the murder of Phyllis Murphy in 1979. Guilty on DNA evidence and jailed. Dunno where he is now.
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/former-soldier-sentenced-to-life-for-murder-of-kildare-woman-1.1103512
That person lived in Kildare and was familiar with the Curragh (after being in the Army if I remember rightly).
He was still at large at the time Deirdre disappeared.

All this is knowledge on public record. He was considered the only other strong suspect for the disappeared women - but again, there was no evidence at that time. That may have changed!

reg114

Lots of speculation but you must follow the evidence. No similar disappearances since the chief suspect's incarceration and departure from the country. None. Unless the gardai extradite him back to Ireland the upgrade to a murder investigation is meaningless. The chief suspect is the chief suspect for good reason given the nature of the crime for which he was convicted, his local knowledge and the timeline before, during and since he was caught. As someone else said, the likelihood of there being two individuals capable of such heinous crimes operating in the same small geographical area during the specific years in question is remote.

Day Lewin

reg114 wrote: »

Lots of speculation but you must follow the evidence. No similar disappearances since the chief suspect's incarceration and departure from the country. None. Unless the gardai extradite him back to Ireland the upgrade to a murder investigation is meaningless. The chief suspect is the chief suspect for good reason given the nature of the crime for which he was convicted, his local knowledge and the timeline before, during and since he was caught. As someone else said, the likelihood of there being two individuals capable of such heinous crimes operating in the same small geographical area during the specific years in question is remote.

Oh, but there were - see second-last post, by me. It's a coincidence but it is true!

ongarboy

Laois_Man wrote: »

Chief Supt Sutton told Independent.ie yesterday he believed there were people who had information about Deirdre’s disappearance at the time but chose not to come forward.

I can't believe there would have been a single person willfully have been hiding information about this for LM since 1998. I don't think he has any person in his life from that time for the last 17 or 18 years!

I wouldn't underestimate the Irish ability for silence, denial and looking the other way. How many abuse victims have had family members deny or suppress what was happening in front of them, or worse, vilify the victim over the offender?!!

Laois_Man

ongarboy wrote: »

I wouldn't underestimate the Irish ability for silence, denial and looking the other way. How many abuse victims have had family members deny or suppress what was happening in front of them, or worse, vilify the victim over the offender?!!

Completely different! The Murphy's have completely disowned Larry to the extent that he was excluded from the list of bereaved family members of his mothers death notice 3 or 4 months ago! There is absolutely no chance whatsoever that any of them, or anyone else in his life from 1998 have been hiding anything for him. None!

Sofi1

Day Lewin wrote: »

There was another criminal at large at about the same period; a person later arrested, (in 1999) and charged with the murder of Phyllis Murphy in 1979. Guilty on DNA evidence and jailed. Dunno where he is now.

That person lived in Kildare and was familiar with the Curragh (after being in the Army if I remember rightly).
He was still at large at the time Deirdre disappeared.

All this is knowledge on public record. He was considered the only other strong suspect for the disappeared women - but again, there was no evidence at that time. That may have changed!

John Crerar was the man convicted of Phyllis Murphy's murder, I believe he's still in jail? I can't post links as a new user but there are press reports of allegations of child sex abuse that were alleged to have occurred before Phyllis's murder. I think he was living in Kildare town with his family up until his arrest in the late 90s.

Sofi1

Laois_Man wrote: »

Completely different! The Murphy's have completely disowned Larry to the extent that he was excluded from the list of bereaved family members of his mothers death notice 3 or 4 months ago! There is absolutely no chance whatsoever that any of them, or anyone else in his life from 1998 have been hiding anything for him. None!

Completely idle speculation on my part, but I'm wondering if any family members or family friends came forward with evidence after his (LM's) mother's death? Something that they didn't want to reveal while she was alive, perhaps to protect her from further distress? I mean, it's hard to image that anything would be shocking after what he's been convicted of already, but Irish family dynamics can be strange.

LETHAL LADY

Day Lewin wrote: »

There was another criminal at large at about the same period; a person later arrested, (in 1999) and charged with the murder of Phyllis Murphy in 1979. Guilty on DNA evidence and jailed. Dunno where he is now.
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/former-soldier-sentenced-to-life-for-murder-of-kildare-woman-1.1103512
That person lived in Kildare and was familiar with the Curragh (after being in the Army if I remember rightly).
He was still at large at the time Deirdre disappeared.

All this is knowledge on public record. He was considered the only other strong suspect for the disappeared women - but again, there was no evidence at that time. That may have changed!

If I remember correctly it had also been suggested in the book Frozen Blood, that the two LM and JC, were seen at a disused quarry together around the time of the disappearance of Deirdre. Not sure if this was ever proven though.

Odelay

coco0981 wrote: »

Jesus I'm not suggesting the Garda have found a body. I was just wondering if there was an opportunity to do some basic visual searches by helicopter/foot in certain areas that the Garda suspect may have been used for burial sites given how the weather was showing up archaeological sites all over Europe

The historical sites that were found are thousands of years old. There would be hundreds of thousands of body sized holes dug around the countryside since then.

Edgware

Sofi1 wrote: »

Completely idle speculation on my part, but I'm wondering if any family members or family friends came forward with evidence after his (LM's) mother's death? Something that they didn't want to reveal while she was alive, perhaps to protect her from further distress? I mean, it's hard to image that anything would be shocking after what he's been convicted of already, but Irish family dynamics can be strange.

Do you think Larry came home after his days "work" and gave the family a rundown on how he got on?