Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker **Spoilers from post 2076**

johnny_ultimate

I rank Abrams quite a bit above many of the other ‘journeyman’ directors. To me, a Russo Brothers or Ron Howard film typically just feels flat - do their job but with little of note. Abrams’ films have their problems (to put it mildly!) but they also have, well, pep: thanks to him and his frequent collaborators (composers, cinematographers etc) they’re usually full of pretty fetching compositions, admirably zippy pacing and well-judged performances. I typically don’t enjoy blockbusters as ‘brain at the door’ experiences because they’re not good enough to justify that... but Abrams films often poke at the right part of my brain to give me that particular dopamine kick.

The problem, as you might have gathered, is that it’s surface level. I loved the pacey thrills of The Force Awakens when it first came out, because as a space operatic rollercoaster I think it captures the magic of Star Wars potently. It’s on a rewatch that the seams became all too apparent. And that’s true of his broader work: Star Trek was a joy in the cinema as a multicolour sugar rush, but rewatches and a sequel of starkly diminished returns proved that narratively it was held together with duct tape. And he’s undeniably a nostalgia merchant first and foremost, which typically means he seriously derails things when asked to move beyond that (a problem Spielberg didn’t have at his peak, incidentally). He’s the man to get a dead franchise kicking again - but not to move it forward.

So yeah: Abrams and co are pretty great craftspeople, and IMO operating on a higher level than your average crew of safe creative hands for a blockbuster in terms of pure filmmaking fluency. The scripting though... oh boy. That’s usually when it all falls apart. And scripts aren’t, y’know, negligible

Mission Impossible 3 was great tho!

Abrams is hardly Alan Taylor, but for my own mileage he is closer to that level than that of a Spielberg.

NIMAN

Reviews so far not good.

Got the feeling this is all going to end badly.

Main complaint I would have is that it supposedly doesn't tie up some loose ends. A film series that is 42 years in the making and they are going to leave questions unanswered?

fluke

NIMAN wrote: »

Reviews so far not good.

Got the feeling this is all going to end badly.

Main complaint I would have is that it supposedly doesn't tie up some loose ends. A film series that is 42 years in the making and they are going to leave questions unanswered?

Totally agree with you but the biggest fault of this trilogy has been creating questions/mysteries. The OT and even the PT (as weak as they were) weren't harnessed on mystery alone...'but what does it mean??'

MJohnston

NIMAN wrote: »

Reviews so far not good.

Got the feeling this is all going to end badly.

Main complaint I would have is that it supposedly doesn't tie up some loose ends. A film series that is 42 years in the making and they are going to leave questions unanswered?

The worst bit about that is there were only loose ends created by JJ himself. The OT neatly closed off the story of the Empire, the Rebel Alliance, and the Skywalkers for however long there was between Revenge of the Sith and TFA. There was a glittering opportunity to use that foundation as a launching pad for something new.

The problem is that JJ's reliance on nostalgia meant that instead the sequel trilogy became a continuation of a finished story rather than something new. He created a bunch of loose ends because that's his MO (and it works when he's not telling the end of the story).

Then, incredibly, he does the same thing AGAIN with TRoS *within the bounds of a single movie*. Setting aside opinions of TLJ (I loved it myself), I think objectively everyone can agree that Rian Johnson cleared the board comprehensively, leaving the only real thread as "how can the Rebellion defeat the First Order?", alongside the emotional conflict between Rey and Ben. That's a super simple launching point for Ep 9. There was even the built-in potential for a long time jump between films. After TLJ, did it matter who Snoke was? No, he was just some arrogant dick. Did it matter who Rey's parents were? No, not everyone needs to be connected. These answers were sufficiently provided, even if not everyone was happy with what they said.

Which means that JJ and Terrio (and more importantly probably - Disney) looked at that blank slate and thought - no, we want to recomplicate everything unnecessarily, and overstuff the final movie with a tonne of resetting of questions and answers. Oh and we're also going to bring back Palpatine, a definitively dead character (so we'll have to waste time to explain that) and do a bunch of bullshït with him and the new characters (staying vague to avoid spoilers).

To put it briefly: this was all self-inflicted destruction by JJ and Disney.

Ipso

So it seems they were making it up as they went along and then threw everything at the wall to end it.

Ipso

Ipso wrote: »

So it seems they were making it up as they went along and then threw everything at the wall to end it.

Thats very unlike JJ Abrahms. Lost was clearly well thought out and projected and had a satisfying ending.










:pac:

CinemaGuy45

Total flop and a financial loss for Disney

Tony EH wrote: »

As dreadful as they are, they can still take part in a well written story. But that hasn't happened either.

Diswars is just a corporate mandated nostalgia washing machine that is completely bereft of any real ideas.

The good new is that this is probably the last we'll see of these so called "characters".

But, hopefully, with these awful, awful, sequels out of the way, somebody can now step in and, at least, oversee the whole thing on a more satisfactory level.

And I'm talking bleedin Kevin Feige or Feloni.

What an utter joke of a post.:mad::rolleyes:

The Disney trilogy is not a sequel to the Star Wars Saga it is just a shameful ripoff.

That Star Wars saga has six episodes George Lucas never got around to making the sequels.:P

George Lucas was not even at the screening.

I will let you away with it this time Tony just don't let it happen again.:p:D

NIMAN

NIMAN wrote: »

Reviews so far not good.

Got the feeling this is all going to end badly.

Main complaint I would have is that it supposedly doesn't tie up some loose ends. A film series that is 42 years in the making and they are going to leave questions unanswered?

That is true, but also very kind to the reality of it IMO.

In fairness to Lucas, for good or bad he felt that he had a story to tell with those prequels. And who could really blame him...the temptation to cover the origins of one of the greatest ever screen villains would be too much. Sure, Lucas wanted to make money with the prequels, but he also had a story itching to get out.

But these Disney movies? Complete cash grab and an unnecessary prolonging of the story of the original trilogy and prequels. The series is only getting stretched out to '42 years in the making' because Disney paid $4bn to make it so. Because Disney seek to make multiples of that figure in return, we are now getting waffle like

Rey v Kylo III, Palpatine surviving events of ROTJ

They can do what they like with Star Wars, it's their property, but my mind boggles as to how Disney could spend so much money on a property but not outline an overall story for the tentpole trilogy. It's not quite that bad, but it's up there with the way WB handled the Justice League property and some of the bonkers decisions made in the background of all that.

Ipso

Deleted User wrote: »

That is true, but also very kind to the reality of it IMO.

In fairness to Lucas, for good or bad he felt that he had a story to tell with those prequels. And who could really blame him...the temptation to cover the origins of one of the greatest ever screen villains would be too much. Sure, Lucas wanted to make money with the prequels, but he also had a story itching to get out.

But these Disney movies? Complete cash grab and an unnecessary prolonging of the story of the original trilogy and prequels. The series is only getting stretched out to '42 years in the making' because Disney paid $4bn to make it so. Because Disney seek to make multiples of that figure in return, we are now getting waffle like

Rey v Kylo III, Palpatine surviving events of ROTJ

They can do what they like with Star Wars, it's their property, but my mind boggles as to how Disney could spend so much money on a property but not outline an overall story for the tentpole trilogy. It's not quite that bad, but it's up there with the way WB handled the Justice League property and some of the bonkers decisions made in the background of all that.

Would it be fair to say that Prometheus and Covenant also suffered from a similar lack of a big picture story?

CinemaGuy45

Total flop and a financial loss for Disney

Ipso wrote: »

Would it be fair to say that Prometheus and Covenant suffered from a similar lack of a big picture story?

Yes but the big difference there is the studio put an end to the madness and put a stop to any more films.

Ipso

Ipso wrote: »

Would it be fair to say that Prometheus and Covenant also suffered from a similar lack of a big picture story?

Maybe, I'm not sure because after Prometheus there was no way I could bring myself to watch Covenant. Did Ridley Scott envision a definite trilogy or series of movies when he made Prometheus? If so, then yes it's similar to Disney with Star Wars.

Like Lucas with the prequels though, I feel that Ridley Scott wanted to tell more stories in that world he created, not just grab a bunch of cash. Tbh, I liked Prometheus' idea of delving into Earth's origins via the Alien franchise (by then Alien 3 and Resurrection had happened, the well had long been poisoned) but the execution of Prometheus was awful with some truly silly narrative choices.

On another note though - Some of these 'hot garbage' movies I was so disappointed in like Justice League and Prometheus, they had some breathtaking shots in them which lead me to Iceland and in turn, changed my life. If TROS feautures some nice shots from Iceland, I'll be happy

J Mysterio

Runaway hit highest gross beating The force Awakens

What happened in Iceland?

Tony EH

MJohnston wrote: »

JJ is the kind of journeyman director who can bring a project in on-time and generally competently made. That's catnip to Hollywood execs. It's why the likes of Ron Howard, Clint Eastwood, etc. keep getting to make movies. The MCU has pretty much been built on journeyman direction. That's why JJ is everywhere.

That said, I think he's an excellent producer. He has a fantastic eye for casting, knows how to steer a project to getting made, and is great at the promotional side of things.

Umm...he's a copycat merchant. Nothing he's done is original. The closest being 'Super 8' and that's him basically ripping off an 80's Spielberg movie.

Everything else has been a reboot or a sequel.

As a producer, well, that's such a nebulous position, it's impossible to say what real impact anyone has in that position, outside of the famous producers or the past like Roger Corman and such, who stamp so much on their films.

In any case, he's partly responsible for wrecking two great sci-fi franchises now. Maybe in the future, we might see something from him that has even the hint of originality. But I won't be holding my breath.

Tony EH

CinemaGuy45 wrote: »

What an utter joke of a post.:mad::rolleyes:

The Disney trilogy is not a sequel to the Star Wars Saga it is just a shameful ripoff.

That Star Wars saga has six episodes George Lucas never got around to making the sequels.:P

George Lucas was not even at the screening.

I will let you away with it this time Tony just don't let it happen again.:p:D

:mad::mad::mad::mad:

I read the first line and I was all ready to get the blasters out.









In any case, was Lucas at any Diswars premieres?

Clegg

Abrams was the perfect man for The Force Awakens. After the disastrous prequel trilogy the series needed a movie that was good. If it basically meant making a greatest hits version of the original trilogy then so be it. Abrams is good at set pieces and moving along from plot point to plot point quickly. The movie itself wasn't great, but it was received well enough by fans and critics.

But it's clear as day that he never should have been allowed near the script as he wasn't going to direct the second one. Abrams ventures always pose half a dozen mysteries that aren't always resolved satisfactorily. If he's not there to resolve them then why bring him on on the first place? It seems like Disney didn't know what they were getting into.

silverharp

sky news had someone on saying the film was bad, seems like JJ united the fanbase after all

Tony EH

Clegg wrote: »

Abrams was the perfect man for The Force Awakens.

That doesn't require someone like Abrams.

All Star Wars needed was the next chapter and a good writer and a good director to make it.

Abrams is neither.

buried

Clegg wrote: »

Abrams was the perfect man for The Force Awakens. After the disastrous prequel trilogy the series needed a movie that was good. If it basically meant making a greatest hits version of the original trilogy then so be it. Abrams is good at set pieces and moving along from plot point to plot point quickly. The movie itself wasn't great, but it was received well enough by fans and critics.

Abrams ruined it from the get go by basically making a carbon copy of the 'A New Hope' for Episode 7. I mean, him and the team at Disney did this for nothing else but give the middle finger to the prequels. It was so stupid, shortsighted, lazy, and just bad to just re-do the entire same story and story arcs as Episode 4.

The were so concerned with trying to avoid any of the blandness of the prequels they ended up creating more blandness themselves by copying nearly everything from Episode 4. There seemed to be such a need to show that it was of the same vein as the originals they completely forgot about making good new characters to empathise with. It was just totally awful. The new characters and the dialogue within it were just as bad as anything in the prequels.

Same designs as the originals too, same villain designs, same hero designs, they even had Han Solo back to where he was at the start as a money dodging greaseball. This was so so stupid. I get that the designs are iconic and people love the look of the ships, stormtroopers etc from the original episodes. They could have still had all that but just create a new story around it at the same time. At least inform the audience just how the Empire/order managed to return to such a powerful level after they seemed to have been wiped out in ROTJ.

Wedwood

These Rotten Tomato scores have become just another version of herd mentality, when you see movies like Avengers Endgame getting scores as good if not better than classics like Lawrence of Arabia or the original Star Wars movies for that matter, then the scores become meaningless.

I’ll keep my judgement on the movie until I actually see it, not on how many ‘tomatoes’ or ‘splats’ are thrown at it.

PS: looking at today’s negative comments from people who haven’t seen the movie yet, I’m reminded of the old saying - a pessimist is never disappointed!!

CinemaGuy45

Total flop and a financial loss for Disney

All rumours true.

Wedwood

I rest my case !!

Shakey_jake

Sounds like a right turkey from the non spoiler review's

Oh well!

I really enjoyed the last jedi so its a pity,

Always had the feeling JJ would mess this up, totally convoluted is what im hearing

matthewmurdock

There were for sure some bad parts about Force Awakens - but I felt that there was enough there to begin a decent trilogy.

It was the Last Jedi that killed it, a film I initially thought was alright but on reflection it left the franchise with nowhere to go

It left absolutely no story threads to continue with into the third movie, whereby Abrams had to come in and try to create something to finish it. He didn't do a good job, judging from leaks, but he didn't have anything to work with either.

They needed an overall story that would be panning out over 3 films, rather than allowing 3 (2 as it ended up) different directors to do their own thing with no regard to the film before or after.

It's crazy how Kathleen Kennedy has managed to kill the most popular franchise in the world.

Baggly

matthewmurdock wrote:

It's crazy how Kathleen Kennedy has managed to kill the most popular franchise in the world.

Haha oh yeah. I'm sure this is the very last time we will ever hear of Star Wars.

The reaction to hearsay is mental. People have their minds made up.

Calhoun

Wedwood wrote: »

These Rotten Tomato scores have become just another version of herd mentality, when you see movies like Avengers Endgame getting scores as good if not better than classics like Lawrence of Arabia or the original Star Wars movies for that matter, then the scores become meaningless.

I’ll keep my judgement on the movie until I actually see it, not on how many ‘tomatoes’ or ‘splats’ are thrown at it.

PS: looking at today’s negative comments from people who haven’t seen the movie yet, I’m reminded of the old saying - a pessimist is never disappointed!!

From an audience perspective this is true i am not so sure about the reviewer perspective.

Saying all that, film critic reviews are they really worth anything? Normally they go for more serious and artistic films. Where as starwars is more popcorn for the eyes.

I wouldn't right it off based on the critic reviews.

You are 100% on the pessimist stuff, youtube, twitter ect is full of hot takes on how **** it is.

matthewmurdock

Baggly wrote: »

Haha oh yeah. I'm sure this is the very last time we will ever hear of Star Wars.

The reaction to hearsay is mental. People have their minds made up.

Where did I say it is the last we will hear of Star Wars?

What she has done is take one of, if not the most profitable franchises in the world and ensure that future movies, whenever they decide to make another, will be met with disdain rather than excitement.

What reaction to heresay? It is the lowest rated Star Wars movie ever on Rotten Tomatoes, the second lowest rated Star Wars movie ever on Metacritic. That's comparing Star Wars v Star Wars.

buried

Baggly wrote: »

Haha oh yeah. I'm sure this is the very last time we will ever hear of Star Wars.

The reaction to hearsay is mental. People have their minds made up.

Sure why wouldn't they? You go to a restaurant for a three course meal and both your starter and main course is absolute crap you can fairly assume the next course is going to be crap too. I went to go see TFA when it first came out, waited for blu ray release for the other yoke. I doubt I'll be getting around to watching this new thing until some TV station shows it some Christmas 3 years from now. I might never watch it. The whole trilogy is a huge mess already.

MisterAnarchy

Wedwood wrote: »

These Rotten Tomato scores have become just another version of herd mentality, when you see movies like Avengers Endgame getting scores as good if not better than classics like Lawrence of Arabia or the original Star Wars movies for that matter, then the scores become meaningless.

Rotten Tomatoes scores reflect the percentage of favourable reviews,its not really a measure of overall quality.
So 90% means 90% of reviews were favourable so the film might be decent but nothing special.
Its not similar to a rating of 9 on IMDB.

Wedwood

MisterAnarchy wrote: »

Rotten Tomatoes scores reflect the percentage of favourable reviews,its not really a measure of overall quality.
So 90% means 90% of reviews were favourable so the film might be decent but nothing special.
Its not similar to a rating of 9 on IMDB.

Many of the IMDB ‘reviews’ are guided by people’s predisposition to Disney taking over Lucasfilm. If their view is Disney is negative, it follows that the movies are garbage.

Much of this view stems from Lucas’ previous comments that he was only able to make his movies as an independent filmmaker outside of the studio system, ergo these new studio produced films were preordained to be bad. People like to prove their own theories, so everyone who presumed Disney would ruin the movies are in the process of proclaiming “I told you so” before they’ve even seen the movie.

I liked Force Awakens, thought Last Jedi was meh, hoping Rise of Skywalker similar in style/tone to Force Awakens.

I usually read only critics who have similar tastes to my own, so thankfully they haven’t savaged Rise of Skywalker - yet !! https://www.empireonline.com/movies/reviews/star-wars-the-rise-of-skywalker/