Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker **Spoilers from post 2076**

the sword

Agree with most of the complaints one here:

1 – similar to JJ’s Lost, the trilogy lack direction from the start, they knew they were making 3 films, yet all 3 appear to be separate with IX trying to bring some sort of cohesion to tie it up. It didn’t work in my opinion. Rey’s story sort of backs this up. She is someone, she is no one, she is someone again.
2 – I felt the clone of Snoke was cheaply done and a cop out. They should have made him “real” and let palps manipulate him. I always felt his true power came from his political side, being able to manipulate to further his own agenda, it’s what made his character so good in the prequels.
3 – Palps is the key villain of the series, and I get the need to bring him back in some capacity to round off the series, but there are too many issues with this.
Vadar’s/Luke’s story in the first 6 films now seems cheapened. They were the central characters, and over the course of the first 6 films that all worked and tied in, when they defeated the emperor. Bringing him back has sort of negated that.
Agree with an older post on this, why did the emperor run/hide?
Also in this movie what was his goal? For Rey to kill him and take his place (he always appeared as the ultimate malevolent villain, so allowing for himself to die for Rey to step into his shoes seems out of character).
Was he always intending on taking her “life force” to rejuvenate himself? They seemed to shoehorn that in there at the last minute to allow for audience satisfaction in Rey and Ben teaming up to fight him.

shotgunmcos

Saw it for the 2nd time today and enjoyed a bit more. The bits that grabbed me grabbed more, the bits that lost me drifted more. Not my favourite of the series but enjoyed it as a star wars flick. Had enough action, humour, scifi, light sabres, jedi, sith etc maybe too much of some.

I felt it ended satisfactorily . One moment I was punching the air, the next punching the seat. Definitely appreciated the key scenes more on 2nd viewing and I'm sure those will grow on me over time.

I agree with much of the critique. This could have spread over 2 films like HP and the Deathly Hallows. Just not enough time in 2 hours with all the action to develop characters, particularly the new ones. ZB being my pick of the limited screen time bunch. Also the fan service was a bit OTT. Overall the structure was hamstrung by the last Jedi taking a dramatically different road to JJs start with FA but there was a lot to enjoy too in this movie. Reylo again the highlight.

I wonder... this vs ROTJ as a finale to a trilogy?
How I rank the trilogies on their own best to worst
OT 5,4,6
PT 3,1,2
ST 7,9,8

More than anything I hoped JJ wouldn't stuff up the ending of the saga. I feel he closed it respectfully.

johnny_ultimate

Goodshape wrote: »

Whatever you might think of Last Jedi, we'd probably have been better off.

God no, I shall rewatch that periodically in years to come and appreciate it anew - the one shining beacon in this otherwise largely disposable run of mediocre-to-worse Disney Star Wars films (TFA is good fun, mind). TRoS I'll happily disregard as the largely redundant nonsense it is, which is grand because Rian Johnson's film is complete on its own terms.

Luckily, as a Last Jedi enthusiast I did get the wonderful follow-up to that film I wanted anyway. It's just not a Star Wars film and is called Knives Out.

J Mysterio

Runaway hit highest gross beating The force Awakens

Sounds like you are a Rian Johnson enthusiast more than anything.

Agent Coulson

After sitting through all 3 of them now all I can think of is I wish they had used Timothy Zahn's books and story's.

johnny_ultimate

J Mysterio wrote: »

Sounds like you are a Rian Johnson enthusiast more than anything.

Sure! I place much more value in individual filmmakers than I do in franchises or series, wouldn’t for a second deny that. Still think TLJ is IMO comfortably the best, most interesting Star Wars film even in franchise terms, but that is of course inseparably wrapped up in it being a major work from a filmmaker I greatly admire

mloc123

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

Sure! I place much more value in individual filmmakers than I do in franchises or series, wouldn’t for a second deny that. Still think TLJ is IMO comfortably the best, most interesting Star Wars film even in franchise terms, but that is of course inseparably wrapped up in it being a major work from a filmmaker I greatly admire

Genuine question here, what do you find interesting in TLJ?

Blazer

J Mysterio wrote: »

Everything is better than Attack of the Clones.

I saw a review where they were insisting the second film of each trilogy was the best? People just talk out of their arse when it comes to Star Wars

I never thought I’d say this but any of the prequels are better than the garbage the last 3 have tossed out.
Was never really a Star Wars fan as while it’s a brilliant idea it’s implementation is just god awful.
I just stick to the audiobooks, miles better.

johnny_ultimate

mloc123 wrote: »

Genuine question here, what do you find interesting in TLJ?

Not to derail the thread too much, but I'll keep it relatively brief as I could write thousands of words on it

• that its visual style and design draws inspiration (often overtly through direct homages and nods) from a wide-range of classic, world and genre cinema while still being distinct and fitting snugly within the Star Wars tradition
• that it has clear, distinctive and well-thought out character arcs that take almost every major player, old and new, on worthwhile personal journeys
• that it answers questions posed by TFA in unexpected but very satisfying ways
• that it takes its time to explore ideas, with entire subplots like Canto Bight the sort of thing a lesser filmmaker would cut out while Johnson makes it an absolutely essential element that's vital to the film's themes (there's a reason we return to it for the epilogue, after all!). Indeed, I think that may be the starkest contrast to Rise of Skywalker, where the forward momentum means there's never time to allow scenes or ideas develop.
• that it's very ****ing funny at times. That ironing board gag *chef's kiss*
• that it has purposeful, thought-out thematic throughlines - such as the nature of heroism, and the 'spark of hope' idea - that play out from the opening crawl to the final shot
• that it offers a long overdue challenge to Star Wars storytelling mainstays such as the reliance on generational bloodlines, the force and pre-destined heroes, while Johnson still being absolutely in awe of the universe and characters he was allowed play around with
• that it's a Hollywood blockbuster that legitimately surprised me with some of its storytelling choices, in a good way! (TRoS is the same, in a bad way )
• that it found a way to explore and challenge a hero as iconic as Luke Skywalker, while giving him the most badass Jedi ending in the entire series
• that it had a similar (dis)regard for certain ideas introduced in the TFA as I did - such as Snoke - and treated them accordingly, while doubling down on the most interesting aspects
• that as a big-budget action film it's second to none in recent years, with incredible setpieces such as the throne room lightsaber battle and the Holdo maneuvere... while 'force Skype' was such a simple but effective way of examining the Rey / Kylo relationship in a classically cinematic way
• that it reflects on Star Wars itself (most overtly in the Yoda scene) - in a really positive way about its legacy, while also encouraging future Star Wars storytellers to move beyond what's worked before and explore new avenues. While I have zero problem with Johnson now focusing on original material, I also think this particular idea in TLJ is a key reason I'd love to see his proposed trilogy to see how he himself would work outside the confines of the Skywalker saga and all the baggage that brings.

I could go on, but I won't because this is a thread about another film! Suffice to say, it's a film I'm always willing to defend, even if I know I'm not going to change minds

Blazer

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

Not to derail the thread too much, but I'll keep it relatively brief as I could write thousands of words on it

• that its visual style and design draws inspiration (often overtly through direct homages and nods) from a wide-range of classic, world and genre cinema while still being distinct and fitting snugly within the Star Wars tradition
• that it has clear, distinctive and well-thought out character arcs that take almost every major player on worthwhile personal journeys, old and new
• that it answers questions posed by TFA in unexpected but very satisfying ways
• that it has purposeful, thought-out thematic throughlines - such as the nature of heroism, and the 'spark of hope' idea - that play out from the opening crawl to the final shot
• that it offers a challenge to long overdue Star Wars storytelling mainstays such as the reliance on generational bloodlines and pre-destined heroes, while Johnson still being absolutely in awe of the universe and characters he was allowed play around with
• that it's a Hollywood blockbuster that legitimately surprised me with some of its storytelling choices, in a good way! (RToS is the same, in a bad way )
• that it found a way to explore and challenge a hero as iconic as Luke Skywalker, while giving him the most badass Jedi moment in the entire series
• that it had a similar (dis)regard for certain ideas introduced in the TFA as I did - such as Snoke - and treated them accordingly, while doubling down on the most interesting aspects
• that as a big-budget action film it's second to none in recent years, with incredible setpieces such as the throne room lightsaber battle and the Holdo maneuvere... while 'force Skype' was such a simple but effective way of examining the Rey / Kylo relationship in a classically cinematic way

I could go on, but I won't because this is a thread about another film! Suffice to say, it's a film I'm always willing to defend, even if I know I'm not going to change minds

See this is Disney will continue to churn out such dross. Any other film would be absolutely hammered for it’s complete rubbish storyline.
You read the above and you’d think you were watching Schlinder’s list or some other masterpiece.

thegreengoblin

Blazer wrote: »

I never thought I’d say this but any of the prequels are better than the garbage the last 3 have tossed out.
Was never really a Star Wars fan as while it’s a brilliant idea it’s implementation is just god awful.
I just stick to the audiobooks, miles better.

So you like the idea of Star Wars rather than Star Wars, is that what you mean? Sorry, I just don't follow here.

Blazer

thegreengoblin wrote: »

So you like the idea of Star Wars rather than Star Wars, is that what you mean? Sorry, I just don't follow here.

Yep I think it’s a great idea. Just don’t like the last few films.
When you listen to the darth bane trilogy it’s miles ahead of any of the films.

thegreengoblin

Blazer wrote: »

Yep I think it’s a great idea. Just don’t like the last few films.
When you listen to the darth bane trilogy it’s miles ahead of any of the films.

I agree on Darth Bane, it's possibly my favourite story within the EU.

I don't want to get into a prequels debate as it's been done to death on here. For what it's worth I think they all stank to high heaven but there you go!

branie2

Runaway hit highest gross beating The force Awakens

I saw it this evening, and I have to say that I really enjoyed it, as did the rest of the audience I was with.

Drumpot

Blazer wrote: »

Yep I think it’s a great idea. Just don’t like the last few films.
When you listen to the darth bane trilogy it’s miles ahead of any of the films.

thegreengoblin wrote: »

I agree on Darth Bane, it's possibly my favourite story within the EU.

I don't want to get into a prequels debate as it's been done to death on here. For what it's worth I think they all stank to high heaven but there you go!

Oh god yes, his story is superb. Can’t see Disney being able to do justice to such a dark biography. Some of the stuff he did was ruthless and certainly not child friendly. It would be darker then Zach Snyder’s superman v Batman!

El Duda

Runaway hit highest gross beating The force Awakens

Masterpiece. Utterly enthralling from start to finish.

The critics got this so wrong.

bad2dabone

Really enjoyed it. Not perfect by any means and yes there are some issues but overall as a piece of escapism I really enjoyed it. I think the director did what he could to finish the trilogy considering where the story was at the end of the last movie and that Carrie fisher died.

Sudden Valley

Really good movie. All the kids at the screening i was at seemed to be enthralled by it. Sure the twists were ridiculous and frequent but if you think of it as a film made primarily for kids it works very well. Rey and Ren were much less annoying in this film.

paulbok

Saw it earlier today, enjoyed it as a stand alone film but the trilogy was all over the place.
My major gripe with them was they didn't flesh out key story lines, trying to have too much in each movie instead.
Example.

Finn becoming force sensitive. Could have delved more into that. I expected that reveal for Poe since TFA to explain his exceptional pilot skills.
In TLJ the need to finish the Jedi order got very little onscreen discussion apart from the Luke - Yoda scene. Such a major plot turn deserved more.

What I did like;
I thought they handled

the Leia death very well, similar to Luke's

Plenty of humour

the arrival of all the spacecraft at the end

Adam Driver was by far the best actor in it, really conveyed the anguish, confusion and anger he had inside him, as he did in the previous films.

I think a lot of the hate that this trilogy as well as other serial franchises such as the MCU gets, is that because they have been around for so long and that there is so much source material (expanded universe books etc) to draw from, that everyone has their own version of what should/could happen and when that isn't in the movie, it becomes crap.

branie2

Runaway hit highest gross beating The force Awakens

I didn't expect

Han Solo

to appear. It was a pleasant surprise.

santana75

Just back from this.......read a review earlier in the week where the reviewer called the film "Souless". And I think this sums it up perfectly. I found myself not caring if any of them lived or died. The life has well and truly been wrung out of this series and I hope they'll leave it alone at this stage. The original first 3 films had an energy and alive ness to them and I think that's why they were so fondly regarded. But this film(and the last jedi) don't have that energy. Anyway I understand that its horses for courses when it comes to movies and some folks might actually love this, but for me it just didn't hit the spot.

alchemist33

Disappointing box office take less than a billion

It was a hell of a lot better than 7 and 8 (I can't remember the names without a lot of effort) without a lot of the plot silliness they had. But that isn't saying too much. There were no wow moments, or no memorable setpieces or planets. In all, a bit forgettable but competent.

banie01

Just out of the cinema after this.
Honestly thought it was a soulless, disjointed tropey mess.

Cheesy awfulness without even the joy of nostalgia to carry me through it.
It is the 1st StarWars movie I wanted to walk out of and if I hadn't been with the kid I would have.

It wasn't until we spoke outside I found out that the only reason he hadn't walked was because he was with me :pac:

It's a poorly stitched together quilt of plot points and tropes from other, better movies dressed up in a StarWars cover!
Goonies, raider, independence day and so many other movies ripped off and thrown on the pile of shíte this movie is, to try and bring a conclusion to multiple threads all without any actual satisfaction or sense of investment on the part of the viewer.

CinemaGuy45

Total flop and a financial loss for Disney

bad2dabone wrote: »

Really enjoyed it. Not perfect by any means and yes there are some issues but overall as a piece of escapism I really enjoyed it. I think the director did what he could to finish the trilogy considering where the story was at the end of the last movie and that Carrie fisher died.

I have a number of posts in this thread and I have made no bones about what I think about Disney Star Wars.

I gave in and went to the thing not nearly as bad as I was expecting it flows way better than The Last Jedi.

An ok popcorn film but as regards story forget about it.

Not the worst film of this trilogy but there is noting original here either.

It's ok not as bad as The Last Jedi and Solo for sure.
It is a silly film that's for sure but it is Episode 9 so what can we really expect I suppose.

For Star Wars fans it is worth seeing it just to complete the journey.

I did not hate the film by any means but I will not be going back to the cinema to see it again.

Will pick it up when it hits home media just to complete the collection.

The Last Jedi was utter garbage in every way that felt empty and flat.
This new film is full to the brim with action without much meaning or substance but it was ok.

Tony EH

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

I could go on, but I won't because this is a thread about another film! Suffice to say, it's a film I'm always willing to defend, even if I know I'm not going to change minds

I'd dearly love to have seen the film you saw Johnny.

Homelander

Very disappointed with it. It's OK, certainly not a bad film or anything like that, just so absurdly safe and familiar, while severely retconning The Last Jedi as to make great parts of that movie pointless.

Either Rian Johnson should've made both sequels to TFA, or JJ should've made all 3. What we get as a result in Rise of Skywalker is a hot mess that feels like it's trying to undo The Last Jedi while basically being a semi-remake of Return of the Jedi.

I thought TFA was OK, far too much a reboot of A New Hope but fundementally a sound enough base to work from, so I was willing to accept how overly familiar it felt, but really don't feel like Rise of Skywalker deserves the same pass.

I'm not sure which is the best film of the 3 in the end, my heart says Last Jedi but it's probably force Awakens. Yes, I know a lot of people hate or dislike Last Jedi, and it had a lot of bad stuff and crap creative choices, but the good parts are amazing.

I would have prefered if Rian Johnson was kept on for the third film after making Last Jedi, for the sake of narrative cohesion. As it is now, the fact there was no overall story in mind or framework created from the outset is blatantly obvious and the final film takes a bit of a dump over what came before.

I agree with the above comments that the movie is soulless. I'm very disappointed with it and not that interested in watching it again. We can slam George Lucas all day but that man had vision, here we are 40 years later and the best they can manage is to simply rip-off and copy his earlier work rather than do anything new.

Rian Johnson at least made an effort in that regard, so it's way I probably think The Last Jedi is my favourite despite it's own big flaws.

I never thought I would say this, but at the end of it all, the sequel trilogy is overall, not any better than the prequels. As individual films in their own right, they're more competently made, but the lack of coherence and direction and all the heavy rethreads kill a great part of it.

inorderofage

Just saw it. Its not perfect but its a million times better than the last one. I genuinely enjoyed it. Cringed maybe a handful of times but hey thats life.
Can we just join hands and mediate on the fact the last jedi wasnt just a bad star wars movie it was a bad movie in its own right. The humour played out like a blooper reel from Saved by the bell or any other such rubbish 80s kids tv. And Ive seen Knives out too, more puritanical trash youll never see again. The warning signs were there from his movie Brick, up there as the worst movie Ive ever seen maybe paired with Norbit. Looper was good, he restrained his sillyness there. Anyway.........
Rise of Skywalker is everything the last one isnt. Adventure, excitement, so what about the mcguffins, let yourself go, feel the force flow. Adam Driver was amazing. What a performance. Kylo Ren is now one of my favourite characters and I was there for the beginning. The only thing is Im reticent to bring my 5 year old some very scary scenes for a young child. Not sure i want to take the chance.of covering his eyes? Anyone here bring a youngling?

B.A._Baracus

Runaway hit highest gross beating The force Awakens

Theboinkmaster wrote: »

Rian Johnson has confirmed he wasn't given any story

madness.
Billon dollar franchise and you announce three movies and don't have any outline on where to go.

That is amazing. Lol.

Blazer

B.A._Baracus wrote: »

madness.
Billon dollar franchise and you announce three movies and don't have any outline on where to go.

That is amazing. Lol.

Complete and utter madness from Disney really.
They should never have gone near the Skywalker story. They should have done trilogy’s before them but I imagine they were seeing the dollar signs if they went the safe route.
Also can’t understand why people are surprised by JJ. The man’s a complete ripoff artist. He did the exact same for Star Trek and all us Trekkies knew he’d do the exact same for Star Wars.
It’s a shame but maybe after the fiasco of the last few movies someone in Disney might grow a pair and do something like Rogue Squadron which to me is the best SW film.

Midlife crisis man

Terrible film. Terrible climax to the Skywalker story. Terrible trilogy overall. Disney have ruined star wars. Very lazy writing. At least George Lucas had vision and a solid plan whichbcompensated for his lack of ability to write dialogue. The EU books' Skywalker storylines would have been much better to make. TFA and Rogue One were decent. Disney really missed a beat by not sitting down and planning the trilogy properly. It'll be interesting to see what they do


I'd love to see a Darth Bane series or a Thrawn series