Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker **Spoilers from post 2076**

Drumpot

@ Tony

Many fans were dissatisfied with the idea of the movies long in advance of them being even made or released and have spent the last 6 or so years just complaining even before movies came out. Thats completely different level of way of rating movies.

I believe toxic fandom does exist. “Not my luke” (we want different but not taht different), gripes that they let old movies away with, complaints in advance of movie being released (don’t need this movie like it’s sacrilege to even make a movie you don’t want), a certain entitlement Almost like ownership of universe, no self reflection (we aren’t children anymore). There’s aren’t issues that need to be issues, they are targeted as issues partially stemming from the original dissatisfaction of the movies being made in the first place.

I do agree that this trilogy has been a mess and poorly planned but the ironic thing is that I think one Disney’s biggest flaw in this trilogy was listening to the complaints of the Last Jedi and trying to give fans what they want. Some of the more vocal Fans have in many ways have influenced a big part of this mess.

People are entitled to be miserable before during and after a movie has been released. But people are also entitled to be Bored of reading the same complaints for Over half a decade at this stage. I am conscious how frustrated fans of the franchise are, I am big fan but have decided to focus more on just trying to take whatever enjoyment I can from these movies through my children’s eyes.

My children were actually watching ESB this morning and I walked in for just 20 seconds and caught a glimpse of a nothing moment with Leai on the falcon. I immediately warmed to it even for those 20 nothing seconds. I don’t get that with the new movies but I’m not sure how they could give me that feeling because that’s a childhood in built feeling that can’t and won’t ever be replicated no matter the movie.

I wish I could lower/amend my expectations do the same with Man United (alas my children don’t follow the football), but I find that issue harder to resolve as they wreck my head every other week. But in many regards I think the same passion is comparable , seeing something you care for so much not doing aswell as it once did in the past. I don’t think it’s all down to Disney and there are other factors (savage competition, saturation of fantasy movies ) I mentioned making it harder for SWs movies. I do get it, but there is more satisfaction to be had by learning to enjoy what we get then being mostly miserable and spreading this misery. :pac:

The White Wolf

Starting with the positives, I again enjoyed the dynamic between Ben and Rey. I also thought it zipped by.

That being said, just because I didn't feel the time pass, that doesn't mean what I was watching was memorable. Certainly not worthy of being the bookend of the saga.

Can't believe I'm saying this but I almost wish they gave this film to Johnson as at least he would have added some heft to the end of a story expanding decades.

Sad Professor

I have to hand JJ Abrams one thing: he knows the limits of his talents and focuses on what he's good at. He's not a good writer but he's great with actors and on-set improvisation. He's also a good editor and like the best directors he's already editing as he shoots, speeding through the scenes that he knows don't quite work or don't make sense.

The problem with this film is that Abrams is working with probably the worst script of his career where even the best moments are undercooked. Unlike TLJ which had several brilliantly crafted scenes that were among the best in the franchise (the throne room, the Holdo manoeuvre, Luke walking out to confront Kylo, etc), there's not a single great scene in this film. At best it has some good moments that end too soon and several energetic sequences which are lots of fun provided you don't think about them… at all.

Despite this, as a standalone film or sequel to TFA, it kinda somehow works. It's fun and very watchable. However, as a follow up to TLJ or as the final act of the trilogy started by TFA, it’s awfully lightweight and inconsequential. When all is said and done and the credits roll, there's nothing to reflect on, no depth. Just a lot of bright lights and noise.

TROS does prove one thing: JJ did have a plan. That plan was to rehash the OT in the most unimaginative and safest way possible. Johnson departed from this plan in an attempt to push things forward and free up the third film from being another rehash. But so committed was JJ to following his plan he was prepared to retcon and sidestep most of TLJ in order to do it. The result is underwhelming to say the least.

crybaby

The White Wolf wrote: »

Can't believe I'm saying this but I almost wish they gave this film to Johnson as at least he would have added some heft to the end of a story expanding decades.

You eejits had your chance with Johnson and treated him like dirt.

inorderofage

Sad Professor wrote: »

I have to hand JJ Abrams one thing: he knows the limits of his talents and focuses on what he's good at. He's not a good writer but he's great with actors and on-set improvisation. He's also a good editor and like the best directors he's already editing as he shoots, speeding through the scenes that he knows don't quite work or don't make sense.

The problem with this film is that Abrams is working with probably the worst script of his career where even the best moments are undercooked. Unlike TLJ which had several brilliantly crafted scenes that were among the best in the franchise (the throne room, the Holdo manoeuvre, Luke walking out to confront Kylo, etc), there's not a single great scene in this film. At best it has some good moments that end too soon and several energetic sequences which are lots of fun provided you don't think about them… at all.

Despite this, as a standalone film or sequel to TFA, it kinda somehow works. It's fun and very watchable. However, as a follow up to TLJ or as the final act of the trilogy started by TFA, it’s awfully lightweight and inconsequential. When all is said and done and the credits roll, there's nothing to reflect on, no depth. Just a lot of bright lights and noise.

TROS does prove one thing: JJ did have a plan. That plan was to rehash the OT in the most unimaginative and safest way possible. Johnson departed from this plan in an attempt to push things forward and free up the third film from being another rehash. But so committed was JJ to following his plan he was prepared to retcon and sidestep most of TLJ in order to do it. The result is underwhelming to say the least.

And thank god JJ did. Yeah a fair enough a bit of rehashing but you missed out on the theme that has threaded the skywalker saga. Family. New ideas abounded as well with reincarnation and never giving up. Plenty of standout scenes; Kylo facing Palpatine at the start and the face off at the end were magnificent. The last jedi was not game changing, the script wad absoultly dreadful..... opening scene with Poe and Hux?? Canto casino? Those horses? I could go on. The script read like a cheesy 80s teen dramedy which is saying something considering the script of the original script. Brick and Knives out were equally awful.
JJ played it safe, it had a few weak moments but NOTHING close to as bad as the last jedi so.I enjoyed Rots so much more.

The White Wolf

crybaby wrote: »

You eejits had your chance with Johnson and treated him like dirt.

I'm on record here stating I enjoyed TLJ upon first viewing even though sheen came off it for me slightly afterwards. I've no problem with Johnson really.

Good thing I'm not easily offended.

Penn

Sad Professor wrote: »

I have to hand JJ Abrams one thing: he knows the limits of his talents and focuses on what he's good at. He's not a good writer but he's great with actors and on-set improvisation. He's also a good editor and like the best directors he's already editing as he shoots, speeding through the scenes that he knows don't quite work or don't make sense.

The problem with this film is that Abrams is working with probably the worst script of his career where even the best moments are undercooked. Unlike TLJ which had several brilliantly crafted scenes that were among the best in the franchise (the throne room, the Holdo manoeuvre, Luke walking out to confront Kylo, etc), there's not a single great scene in this film. At best it has some good moments that end too soon and several energetic sequences which are lots of fun provided you don't think about them… at all.

Despite this, as a standalone film or sequel to TFA, it kinda somehow works. It's fun and very watchable. However, as a follow up to TLJ or as the final act of the trilogy started by TFA, it’s awfully lightweight and inconsequential. When all is said and done and the credits roll, there's nothing to reflect on, no depth. Just a lot of bright lights and noise.

TROS does prove one thing: JJ did have a plan. That plan was to rehash the OT in the most unimaginative and safest way possible. Johnson departed from this plan in an attempt to push things forward and free up the third film from being another rehash. But so committed was JJ to following his plan he was prepared to retcon and sidestep most of TLJ in order to do it. The result is underwhelming to say the least.

Completely agree. It's a relatively satisfying conclusion to the new trilogy, and there was a lot to like in this film. But the departure from the original trilogy framework in The Last Jedi was largely ignored here to give us ROTJ2. I loved TLJ, even rewatching it a week ago it's still a great film to me (bar the casino planet stuff). It was a much needed change from the old films where TFA was like a remake of ANH, and I'd really hoped they'd continue on a new path, but no.

Still though, the performances in this were mostly great, almost every scene with Rey and Kylo was terrific and I really hope now that the Skywalker Saga is over and done with, they can truly move on to new Star Wars movies like they looked like they were doing with The Last Jedi.

The White Wolf

One thing I noticed is that watching the film, the multiple cuts rumour has been proven to be true. One minute

Finn is hinting at his love for Rey, the next he's having moments with Jannah and Rose.

Either the film started off as an entirely different beast with remnants of scenes finding its way into the final cut, or the man's got Dracula levels of seduction power.

Sad Professor

The White Wolf wrote: »

One thing I noticed is that watching the film, the multiple cuts rumour has been proven to be true. One minute

Finn is hinting at his love for Rey, the next he's having moments with Jannah and Rose.

Either the film started off as an entirely different beast with remnants of scenes finding its way into the final cut, or the man's got Dracula levels of seduction power.

JJ apparently revealed in a Q&A

that Finn was going to tell Rey that he was Force-sensitive.

alchemist33

Disappointing box office take less than a billion

What was the long thing Rey carried on her shoulder for most of the film?

Relikk

alchemist33 wrote: »

What was the long thing Rey carried on her shoulder for most of the film?

Don't remember, but it could be her staff?

Tony EH

Drumpot wrote: »

@ Tony

Many fans were dissatisfied with the idea of the movies long in advance of them being even made or released and have spent the last 6 or so years just complaining even before movies came out. Thats completely different level of way of rating movies.

How can even quantify that? How "many"? You can say this, but it's impossible to be convincing about it really.

In any case, I am sure that there were a number of fans who weren't enamoured with the idea of Disney taking over the franchise. Turns out they were correct, because Disney made a balls of it. I'm also sure that there were a number of fans who were meh about the sequels, following 'The Force Awakens' and 'The Last Jedi'. But, if they didn't like one, it's only natural to be cautious about the next one coming up. After 'The Force Awakens' proved to be a bit of a dud, I wasn't that big on 'The Last Jedi', but gave it a chance. Effectively that film killed these sequels for me stone dead, so I couldn't care less about the current one.

That's on Disney.

I, myself, wasn't too enamoured with the idea of Disney buying this off of George Lucas, except for the "fact" that I might be able to finally buy the original films in their un-abused form on Blu, which is all I wanted from Mickey.

I'm still waiting for that to happen.

But I did get 'Rogue One' out of it, so swings and roundabouts.

Drumpot wrote: »

I believe toxic fandom does exist.

You can believe it if you wish, but it's really just a handy phrase to use for people who want to dismiss an argument or opinion that they don't like. People who don't like a film aren't "toxic". They just people who don't like a film.

Are there arseholes on the web who make stupid statements? Sure. But in the grand scheme of things, they are a tiny, tiny, fraction of trolls who use the web as a way to display that for everything. Frankly, they don't count.

Drumpot wrote: »

“Not my luke” (we want different but not taht different), gripes that they let old movies away with, complaints in advance of movie being released (don’t need this movie like it’s sacrilege to even make a movie you don’t want), a certain entitlement Almost like ownership of universe, no self reflection (we aren’t children anymore). There’s aren’t issues that need to be issues, they are targeted as issues partially stemming from the original dissatisfaction of the movies being made in the first place.

Not liking how a character is written isn't anything to do with so called "toxic fandom". There's absolutely nothing wrong with someone not liking how a writer chooses to knock out a character.

Even Mark Hammil didn't like what Rian Johnson did to the character he played for years.

Complaints in advance of movies are just people voicing concerns too. So what if someone is worried how a film will turn out and voices that. There's nothing wrong with it. Calling people who speculate over an unreleased movie "toxic" is really just wanting people not to voice an opinion that you don't like.

Also, given the track record of these big budget, empty, tent pole projects, most people are absolutely correct to be worried about the next instalment in a franchise they love, because over the last number of years we've seen sequel after sequel, reboot after reboot fail miserably because the output was shite. It's no wonder that people will great the news of upcoming popcorn movies with dismissal. Far, far, too often they are just terrible, so the complaints aren't licked off the stones.

That, again, is on the film makers responsible for making these movies. Not the punter handing over the money to go and see them.

Drumpot wrote: »

I do agree that this trilogy has been a mess and poorly planned but the ironic thing is that I think one Disney’s biggest flaw in this trilogy was listening to the complaints of the Last Jedi and trying to give fans what they want. Some of the more vocal Fans have in many ways have influenced a big part of this mess.

Again, you're blaming the audience and not where the blame should lie and that's with the studio. Nobody is making Disney add in shitty, cherry picked elements to their Star Wars movies. Nobody asked to have the Emperor brought back from the dead, for example. JJ Abrams did that because Rian Johnson painted him into a corner by blithely killing off Snoke in his movie. Nobody made Johnson write 'The Last Jedi' in the manner that he did. That's entirely on him too.

Blaming fans for how film makers fuck up their own stories is looking for reasons in the wrong place.

Drumpot wrote: »

People are entitled to be miserable before during and after a movie has been released.

They are also entitled not to be labelled as "toxic" just because somebody doesn't like what's being said.

Drumpot wrote: »

But people are also entitled to be Bored of reading the same complaints for Over half a decade at this stage. I am conscious how frustrated fans of the franchise are, I am big fan but have decided to focus more on just trying to take whatever enjoyment I can from these movies through my children’s eyes.

Nobody forces anyone to read or engage with anybody else on this matter. If people are "tired" of reading something, then go and read something else. Whining about someone else's take on a given subject, simply because it doesn't coincide with one's own, has to be the worst sense of "entitlement" I can think of.

Drumpot wrote: »

My children were actually watching ESB this morning and I walked in for just 20 seconds and caught a glimpse of a nothing moment with Leai on the falcon. I immediately warmed to it even for those 20 nothing seconds. I don’t get that with the new movies but I’m not sure how they could give me that feeling because that’s a childhood in built feeling that can’t and won’t ever be replicated no matter the movie.

It, likely, has less to do with your childhood and more to do with the fact that these "characters" in the sequels are just poorly written, empty shells. You are warmed by seeing Leia because you know that she was played relatively well by Carrie Fisher, who was not a great actress by any measure, but she gave a lot of herself to the role.

Let's be honest here, the nucleus for the main characters in these sequels were that the lead had to be female this time and there had to be a POC in there too and that was it. Now, that's fine in and of itself, but there has to be more to a character than just that and that's where the problems lie with Rey, Finn and Poe. They're just empty. Devoid of anything that would make you get a warm towards them. They are so badly written and with so little substance, that it's impossible to feel anything about them. It's only due to the actor's charm, that they weren't totally wretched. But there is no chemistry to them at all. We never get a sense of real camaraderie that we do with the original film's trio. In fact, they don't even share the screen until the third movie. So, it all just feels so forced in terribly unconvincing.

And, once again, that is on the studio making the film. It's not down to the audience member who can't connect with what they're seeing on the screen.

Drumpot wrote: »

I wish I could lower/amend my expectations do the same with Man United (alas my children don’t follow the football)

Well, I follow the other shade of red, so I'm happy out.

Still find myself bracing for the post Christmas slump and lost points.

silverharp

[HTML][/HTML]a lot of the criticism were just down to basic moving making, like having interesting characters, decent arcs , avoid having Mary Sue characters. its beyond me how people responsible for billion dollar movies can forget this. Or if you are going to do a trilogy follow the lead of movies like The Hunger Games where there is an overall structure and built up payoff at the end. lets hope a few people at Disney have had their expectations subverted :pac:

ZV Yoda

I wish Lucas had written the sequels... but with Gareth Edwards directing.

Homelander

I'd be totally fine with Lucas primarily writing them with either Johnson or JJ to assist, and either to direct. George Lucas really is the man with the vision for Star Wars, but he's a bad dialogue writer and weak director. I have no doubt he'd have delivered a far more interesting sequel trilogy that went exciting and fresh new places, but a horribly flawed one.

Where the prequels are strong the sequels are weak (storytelling and vision), but inversely, where the prequels are weak the sequels are tremendously strong (acting and direction).

TheDoc

Saw the film this morning.

Felt it was a pretty meh finale to a pretty dreadful trilogy. Most involved should be ashamed to take a story and world that was pretty much already in place, and to make such a howling mess of it.

So we just entirely forget about the the prophecy of Anakin? That, and how it was entirely ignored in this trilogy, was absolutely laughable stuff

Rey's lineage was so rubbishly thrown in, you could see there was no plan for this trilogy. That was just a total nonsense

Actually could go on and on. You could absolutely tell however this was a total mess to make. Whatever about the previous director being fired, this was totally unprofessional in parts from Abrams, shocking in it's digs at the second film and just randomly throwing **** in all over the place. You could also tell this was the first film that didn't consult the Lucas Group, who manage the canon. Which every other Star Wars THING has done.

To actually make a meal of as massive space battle takes some doing.

Really annoyed about the whole thing. Was some really good characters, strong actors and the opportunity for something amazing but as usual, just totally made a meal of.

Rey and Kylo, their scenes, their acting, was the only thing keeping this from being an absolute travesty

TheDoc

ziedth wrote: »

Finally, the ending "Fight" with Palpatine.... would it not have worked like 100 times better as a quick light saber fight where she is easily stronger then him using the streght of previous Jedi etc. Etc. seeing as nobody in ROTS came close to him in a lightsabre fight it would have tied off a bit more nicely. Like Mace Windu was able to use his light saber harm Papatine during his lighting attack.

This was one of the most annoying things I've come away with.

There was an opportunity for an immense ending, to tie off the entire story line and series. Hundreds of whatever was in the shadows, Palp clones or Sith clones or Sith followers whatever. Have them pop red lightsabres and surround Ben and Rey, and for all those voices to be actual force ghosts appearing to help them.

Or something, just do something other then that absolute nonsense that took place. It was a pretty rubbish ending for me

Wedwood

Well, first reaction after seeing it today was I liked it and thought it was very enjoyable. The centre piece of this trilogy was the story of Rey and Kylo Ren and they conclude it well.

I’d rank this film about level with Revenge of the Sith in that it had to tie up a lot of loose ends and did so to about the same level of success.

Cue years of debates about whether the sequel or prequel trilogy is better/worse.

Drumpot

@Tony, thanks for the comprehensive response, very well explained.

I agree with some and disagree with other elements. Always feels like perhaps I’m not making the point clear cause you always talk what people aren entitled to do which has nothing to do with my points and you get quite defensive when people address the overly negative neysayers. It’s like some feel this is their personal soap box forum to dump all their anger and the rest of us should put up or shut up about just because “you have a right, to say how angry you are”. Put simply, you can complain all you want but people can call you out when you keep repeating the exact same things for years before and after SWs movies.

I see you trying to explain away toxic fandom but don’t agree with your sentiments at all on the topic. I use it as just a quick way of identifying some fans reactions before and after the movies. Some people can be toxic on certain subjects and one sign of that is spending years repeating The same complaints about things that won’t change.

I know what that’s like cause I do it with man United, the difference appears to be that I’m aware of it but just accept there is a certain cathartic release that comes from whinging about it. I don’t see it as insulting people, just calling out their behaviour.

I’m not sure I fully agree with your comments on my sentiments towards the OT either. But I don’t see you conceding much on this topic so don’t see much benefit to going round in circles. How about this, you can keep complaints an every few years I can ask if you can somehow learn to just change the record once in awhile. You don’t have to do anything but every so often it just gets tiresome reading the same stuff over and over again. I don’t have to read it of course but I prefer to not ignore people, just address issues as they arise.

expectationlost

so

palpentine's son was a just a nice ginger guy

why wasn't he molded to the dark side?

Homelander

Wedwood wrote: »

Cue years of debates about whether the sequel or prequel trilogy is better/worse.

I feel they're much the same in the end. The new films are better productions in an objective sense and the acting is certainly incomparably better, but I think they lack any real iconic imagery or moments that the prequels posess, moments that'll stand the test of time and remain cherished parts of the increasingly expanding franchise....and taken as whole, the new trilogy isn't any better than its precedessor in the end.

Like, Duel of the Fates, Anakin V Obi Wan, Order 66, Battle above Coruscant, and similar happenings that took place between I and III. Personally I think the Throne Room scene in TLJ and the Holdo jump are worthy enough, but there's nothing overly memorable about TFA or ROS to my mind, ROS in particular is just bubblegum for the brain throughout.

I think the Vader scene in Rogue One deserves far more recognition as well - the utter brutality and rage of that scene is absolutely terrifying, and the new trilogy could've done with some of that. I get chills every time I watch it. I believe that was a late addition to the movie; whoever was responsible for tacking that on ended up creating possibly the best, most intense, and deeply disturbing portrayal of Vader we've ever seen.

expectationlost

1917 a 15A and james bond (15 in the UK) yet to be rated as trailers in front of starwars in the odean !?

S.M.B.

There were two James Bond trailers at my screening in the uk on Friday. Along with a trailer for TRoS.

faceman

Homelander wrote: »

I feel they're much the same in the end. The new films are better productions in an objective sense and the acting is certainly incomparably better, but I think they lack any real iconic imagery or moments that the prequels posess, moments that'll stand the test of time and remain cherished parts of the increasingly expanding franchise....and taken as whole, the new trilogy isn't any better than its precedessor in the end.

Like, Duel of the Fates, Anakin V Obi Wan, Order 66, Battle above Coruscant, and similar happenings that took place between I and III. Personally I think the Throne Room scene in TLJ and the Holdo jump are worthy enough, but there's nothing overly memorable about TFA or ROS to my mind, ROS in particular is just bubblegum for the brain throughout.

I think the Vader scene in Rogue One deserves far more recognition as well - the utter brutality and rage of that scene is absolutely terrifying, and the new trilogy could've done with some of that. I get chills every time I watch it. I believe that was a late addition to the movie; whoever was responsible for tacking that on ended up creating possibly the best, most intense, and deeply disturbing portrayal of Vader we've ever seen.

The Vadar scene was shot after the fact and is admittedly a (pointless) shoe horned epic moment in an otherwise pointless film.

Really don’t see why Rogue One gets any love. It’s weak and unnecessary. The reshoots butchered the narrative.

Mark Hamill

Overall, this was fine.
For reference, I thought TFA was fine, pretty safe but fine, and I liked a lot of TLJ particularly when it actually did something specifically different to the previous movies but found it some of it to be a bit inconsistent.

I really liked the puppetry used in this movie, there were a few really nice locations and as some others have said, Abrahms can direct well (even if he hasn't an original story idea in his head).


Overall, what annoyed me was how it all seemed a bit lazy.
A particular exampl was

the end fight. Rey won because she had two lightsabers. Oh, she got the strength to stand up because all of the other Jedi are linked to her, but it just seemed that she beat Palpatines lightning simply because of the second lightsaber (if only Windu had a second one in episode 3)

But more in general, Abrahms didn't go far enough in what he decided to do.

He decided to reboot episode 6, because no idea is too god to be rehashed. But why stop there? Why not tie everything together, the whole 9 movies? What I would have done:

There is a (canon) comic

(here, read #6),

that reveals that Palpatine used the force to impregnate Anakins mom. Palpatine should have revealed that to Rey and, in a mirror to the scene where he talks about Plagueis to Anakin in EP3

(here),

explain that he figured out how to even overcome Plagueis' problem - if someone kills Palpatine with hate in their heart, he can possess them.
Palpatine doesn't want just anyone to do this, he wants to possess a powerful force user if it happens, so he decides to make said powerful force user. First he made Vader, but Obi-Wan f**cked him up so was no longer mint condition and Palpatine didn't want him anymore. Palpatine, though, realises that Vader has kids so waits for them to grow up. Luke rejects him, and Leia rejects Jedi-ing in general, so neither is useful to him, leading him to make a new child - Reys father. He rejects Palpatine/is weak in the Force, so he waits for him to have child to turn. Leia, meanwhile, has a powerful Force using child, Ben Solo, and Palpatine drives him to the darkside by influencing Luke to consider killing him (I always thought that EP8 should have revealed that Snoke used the force to cloud Lukes judgement when he went to confront Ben). Ben is ultimately no good to him because of the effect his mother has on him. Rey, on the other hand, has no parents or family, so has no strings holder her back from him.

Everything in the 9 movies was all driven by Palpatine, to support his lust for the one true power - immortality.
There would even be an opportunity to mirror Yoda's "luminous beings are we" quote

(here)

with Palpatine saying basically the same thing, and therefore that it doesn't matter if the body dies as the spirit can go on (force ghosts everywhere in these movies). Hell, make it that he heard this from Yoda and that all of this outcome is just his point of view of the implication of it (showing how the Sith and Jedi are starting from the same ideas but for their point of view and giving a nice callback to Obi-Wans distinction to how seeing things from a "certain point of view" can be important). Thus he, the most powerful sith, defined and defining the darkside, killed by someone entrenched in hate (i.e. the darkside) can take over that person.

The real twist, then, is that the 9 movies are not the Skywalker saga, but the Palpatine sage. And Ep9 is "The Rise of Skywalker" because its about how the last of the Skywalkers (Rey) finally leaves all of that behind.

Theboinkmaster

Total flop and a financial loss for Disney

inorderofage wrote: »

Cringed maybe a handful of times but hey thats only thing is Im reticent to bring my 5 year old some very scary scenes for a young child. Not sure i want to take the chance.of covering his eyes? Anyone here bring a youngling?

Id love to bring my 4 year old but I’m not going to - think it’s too long and dark in places (palpatine stuff)

Brock Turnpike

Disappointing box office take less than a billion

Mark Hamill wrote: »

Overall, this was fine.
For reference, I thought TFA was fine, pretty safe but fine, and I liked a lot of TLJ particularly when it actually did something specifically different to the previous movies but found it some of it to be a bit inconsistent.

I really liked the puppetry used in this movie, there were a few really nice locations and as some others have said, Abrahms can direct well (even if he hasn't an original story idea in his head).


Overall, what annoyed me was how it all seemed a bit lazy.
A particular exampl was

the end fight. Rey won because she had two lightsabers. Oh, she got the strength to stand up because all of the other Jedi are linked to her, but it just seemed that she beat Palpatines lightning simply because of the second lightsaber (if only Windu had a second one in episode 3)

But more in general, Abrahms didn't go far enough in what he decided to do.

He decided to reboot episode 6, because no idea is too god to be rehashed. But why stop there? Why not tie everything together, the whole 9 movies? What I would have done:

There is a (canon) comic

(here, read #6),

that reveals that Palpatine used the force to impregnate Anakins mom. Palpatine should have revealed that to Rey and, in a mirror to the scene where he talks about Plagueis to Anakin in EP3

(here),

explain that he figured out how to even overcome Plagueis' problem - if someone kills Palpatine with hate in their heart, he can possess them.
Palpatine doesn't want just anyone to do this, he wants to possess a powerful force user if it happens, so he decides to make said powerful force user. First he made Vader, but Obi-Wan f**cked him up so was no longer mint condition and Palpatine didn't want him anymore. Palpatine, though, realises that Vader has kids so waits for them to grow up. Luke rejects him, and Leia rejects Jedi-ing in general, so neither is useful to him, leading him to make a new child - Reys father. He rejects Palpatine/is weak in the Force, so he waits for him to have child to turn. Leia, meanwhile, has a powerful Force using child, Ben Solo, and Palpatine drives him to the darkside by influencing Luke to consider killing him (I always thought that EP8 should have revealed that Snoke used the force to cloud Lukes judgement when he went to confront Ben). Ben is ultimately no good to him because of the effect his mother has on him. Rey, on the other hand, has no parents or family, so has no strings holder her back from him.

Everything in the 9 movies was all driven by Palpatine, to support his lust for the one true power - immortality.
There would even be an opportunity to mirror Yoda's "luminous beings are we" quote

(here)

with Palpatine saying basically the same thing, and therefore that it doesn't matter if the body dies as the spirit can go on (force ghosts everywhere in these movies). Hell, make it that he heard this from Yoda and that all of this outcome is just his point of view of the implication of it (showing how the Sith and Jedi are starting from the same ideas but for their point of view and giving a nice callback to Obi-Wans distinction to how seeing things from a "certain point of view" can be important). Thus he, the most powerful sith, defined and defining the darkside, killed by someone entrenched in hate (i.e. the darkside) can take over that person.

The real twist, then, is that the 9 movies are not the Skywalker saga, but the Palpatine sage. And Ep9 is "The Rise of Skywalker" because its about how the last of the Skywalkers (Rey) finally leaves all of that behind.

Brilliant stuff, Mark. Have you sent your version to Hollywood?

Derco

Saw this earlier today. I went into the cinema with the bar set very low as regards expectations but I was pleasantly very surprised.

I was expecting the first half to be a bit all over the shop but it redeemed itself in how it brought the saga to a close. It is far from being up there with TESB but enjoyable nonetheless.

inorderofage

Theboinkmaster wrote: »

Id love to bring my 4 year old but I’m not going to - think it’s too long and dark in places (palpatine stuff)

Yeah I agree the Palpatine scenes were the darkest of any star wars movie

Peatys

Being 40, it doesn't really matter what i thought of this film, i might as well give an opinion on Ben & Holly. I brought my 11 yr is nephew and he loved it.