Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker **Spoilers from post 2076**

DrumSteve

If you turn it sideways it kinda looks like VI

Not sure what that would mean though

TomSweeney

I think we should expect the first trailer today or tomorrow ...

TomSweeney

tigger123 wrote: »

Episode IV and VI are very good films, while Episode V is excellent IMO. If it's not for you though, it's not for you.

There's a lot of Star Wars fans (myself included) that were kids when they first saw them, so there's a lot wrapped up in that. A lot of nostalgia. And its a path in some ways back to a simpler time (both for you as in individual, and for society at large).

Similar reason as to why Stranger Things was such a hit.

The new films are made for a different audience, who live in a very different world. So when people get angry at a change in direction of the franchise (IMO) they're angry at a lot of different things.

There's people (who I know) that love the new films and can't stand the old ones. Which is fine too. It's art. It's their to be enjoyed or not. I don't see why people get so enraged by the whole thing.

Exactly, when you think about it, the guys that saw Star Wars as kids (like me) are in their 40s/50s now.
From Disney point of view whats the point in catering for us, when we are dying off to put it bluntly ...


I would really love the Rian Johnson trilogy to be set in the Old Republic days, Darth Bane etc ... but it won't happen, it will be for the next generation and will be completley independent - probably set 100 years or so after ep IX - with no ties.

I would also love an Obi Wan movie with Ewan McGregor - won't happen either, again the new generation don't care about the old characters, these 3 films are a wrap up of the old, introducing the new - stylistically at least.

In fact now that I think about it, I am surprised we got Rogue one and Solo.

Tony EH

TomSweeney wrote: »

Exactly, when you think about it, the guys that saw Star Wars as kids (like me) are in their 40s/50s now.
From Disney point of view whats the point in catering for us, when we are dying off to put it bluntly ...

None of that changes whether something is shit or not.

TomSweeney

Tony EH wrote: »

None of that changes whether something is shit or not.

Agreed, but just stating the reality that this is Disneys baby now, they will do what they want to make it profitable, I hope it's good, it may not be (for me)

Tony EH

TomSweeney wrote: »

Agreed, but just stating the reality that this is Disneys baby now, they will do what they want to make it profitable, I hope it's good, it may not be (for me)

Disney alienating the folk who have pumped their hard earned into the franchise since 1977 is one of the reasons why they're in a state of flux at the moment. Killing those geese and hoping someone else will lay all those golden eggs is a terribly bad idea. That's why sales for everything Star Wars is down.

Disney are now pinning their hopes on TV fare and praying that IX isn't a disaster like 'Solo'. I don't think it will be, myself. But, this trilogy is a busted flush anyway. It's really been a mess from the beginning.

I think, though, that everyone is just grinding out this trilogy and cannot wait for it to be over. It'll limp over the line and that'll be it. Then they can put their efforts into something else. Hopefully, with a lot more planning and strategy involved.

Dades

Runaway hit highest gross beating The force Awakens

Tony EH wrote: »

I think, though, that everyone is just grinding out this trilogy and cannot wait for it to be over. It'll limp over the line and that'll be it. Then they can put their efforts into something else. Hopefully, with a lot more planning and strategy involved.

What galaxy are you in?

https://www.the-numbers.com/movies/franchise/Star-Wars#tab=summary

Episode VII grossed more than the OT put together. Even Rogue One grossed more than The Phantom Menace. Episode IX will smash even more records and Disney will be selling more merchandise than they can make.

Mistakes were made, like story choices in TLJ, or the timing of the release of Solo, but people still turned up.

After TLJ, Abrams has a clean slate to move on. No more Snoke (Emperor) or Starkiller Base (Death Star) meaning we should see something original. His execution of TFA was flawless and the characters he introduced were loved by a new generation.

The future is oh-so-bright for Disney.

Theboinkmaster

Total flop and a financial loss for Disney

Dades wrote: »

The future is oh-so-bright for Disney.

I'm not so sure about that - the last 2 SW films have been utter turds (solo and TLJ) and declining returns - I doubt Solo made much money net of studio/advertising costs etc.

A lot hangs on ep9 I think...

Keyzer

I could get over the weaknesses in TFA - its essentially a remake of EPIV, not very original but entertaining enough.

TLJ was, in my opinion, one of the worst films I've ever seen. How Disney signed off on this pile of steaming turds is beyond me. Rian Johnson should have been sacked when he delivered his proposed (at the time) story to Disney. Absolute crap from start to finish.

Hopefully they can salvage something from the last one, I'd expect it to be a massive improvement on the bag of crap that came before but that's not going to be hard anyways.

Regardless, Disney will make a fortune and thats all they care about.

Tony EH

Dades wrote: »

What galaxy are you in?

https://www.the-numbers.com/movies/franchise/Star-Wars#tab=summary

Episode VII grossed more than the OT put together. Even Rogue One grossed more than The Phantom Menace. Episode IX will smash even more records and Disney will be selling more merchandise than they can make.

Mistakes were made, like story choices in TLJ, or the timing of the release of Solo, but people still turned up.

After TLJ, Abrams has a clean slate to move on. No more Snoke (Emperor) or Starkiller Base (Death Star) meaning we should see something original. His execution of TFA was flawless and the characters he introduced were loved by a new generation.

The future is oh-so-bright for Disney.

The real one.

Over all, Disney may have made their money on the movies. But, TLJ had a massive second week drop off and Solo bombed spectacularly. Plus the merch is down two years in a row.

It's not all roses, as the context reveals.

And, into the bargain, everything's been taken off the table, except for the TV stuff and Disney now wants to "reset".

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-04-12/star-wars-movies-will-take-a-break-after-episode-ix-disney-says

They haven't a clue what they're doing.

Dades

Runaway hit highest gross beating The force Awakens

Keyzer wrote: »

Rian Johnson should have been sacked when he delivered his proposed (at the time) story to Disney. Absolute crap from start to finish.

I'd agree that someone should have pointed out that guts of the story was a daft, slow space chase. I really liked the peripheral stuff with Luke, Rey and KR though. It looked amazing, too.

I do believe JJ will right the applecart in the big way.

Keyzer wrote: »

Regardless, Disney will make a fortune and thats all they care about.

Is the best way to make money not to make great movies that sell a lot of seats and BB-8 electric toothbrushes?

They're not trying to kill the franchise. They're guilty of giving us too much of it, maybe [Solo]. But they know the better the movie and the word of mouth the happier their shareholders are going to be ultimately.

I feel people ragging on Disney's Star Wars have short memories!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2tLf1JO5bvE

pixelburp

Is Last Jedi a marmite film? Wow gee, this is the first I'm hearing of this.

Do we really need another post mortem on Last Jedi? Clicked into this thinking there might be some news on Episode IX, instead get the usual dog-pile on Last Jedi. I can't think of a topic of film discussion more exhausted at this stage than the eagerness for folks to say, hey, Last Jedi gives you movie cancer, or something.

Sorry, being ranty and tetchy here, but jayyyysus can we not move on a little? I see less hyperbole in discussions over Trump than The Last Jedi :rolleyes:

Dades

Runaway hit highest gross beating The force Awakens

Tony EH wrote: »

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-04-12/star-wars-movies-will-take-a-break-after-episode-ix-disney-says

They haven't a clue what they're doing.

That reads to me like they do have a clue?

After EpIX, Disney are taking a hiatus from SW movies as they recognise the over-saturation of the brand. Seems like the right move, no?

johnny_ultimate

I’ve made my peace with the fact that people don’t like a film I absolutely adored and not a hope in hell I’m relitigating that. But I’m sorry: the continued suggestion that The Last Jedi was a *financial* flop or misfire is a mass delusion that ignores objective reality.

Tony EH

Dades wrote: »

That reads to me like they do have a clue?

After EpIX, Disney are taking a hiatus from SW movies as they recognise the over-saturation of the brand. Seems like the right move, no?

Why would a company need to take a "hiatus" on something that's successful?

The fact of the matter is that they had no plan for the sequel trilogy and they made a balls of it. 'Solo' then scared the crap out of them, because nobody thought it was a good idea and nobody went to see it. The merchandise sales are all down, two years in a row, including the all important toy sales which is where the biggest Star Wars turnover is.

Disney have slammed the brakes on this train, because they don't really know what to do with it or how to proceed...hence...a "hiatus'.

It's certainly the "right move", but only because of the monumental mess that Disney has made of the franchise so far.

Tony EH

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

I’ve made my peace with the fact that people don’t like a film I absolutely adored and not a hope in hell I’m relitigating that. But I’m sorry: the continued suggestion that The Last Jedi was a *financial* flop or misfire is a mass delusion that ignores objective reality.

Nobody has said that.

Venom

Total flop and a financial loss for Disney

Dades wrote: »

That reads to me like they do have a clue?

After EpIX, Disney are taking a hiatus from SW movies as they recognise the over-saturation of the brand. Seems like the right move, no?

More of a desperation move due to having no alternatives nor any idea on how to win back the fanbase. If brand over-saturation is the real issue, how come the Marvel movies have pretty much gone from strength to strength over the last decade with the MCU having over 20 plus movies made and at least another 6 in development, yet fans are constantly looking forward to the next one.

Dades

Runaway hit highest gross beating The force Awakens

Tony EH wrote: »

It's certainly the "right move", but only because of the monumental mess that Disney has made of the franchise so far.

Any quartet of films that grossed nearly 5 billion and included TFA and R1 (both exceptionally popular movies) could hardly be a monumental mess.

I don't disagree that they've made some bad decisions, just your hyperbole.

Venom wrote: »

More of a desperation move due to having no alternatives nor any idea on how to win back the fanbase. If brand over-saturation is the real issue, how come the Marvel movies have pretty much gone from strength to strength over the last decade with the MCU having over 20 plus movies made and at least another 6 in development, yet fans are constantly looking forward to the next one.

That is an unending mystery to me. With the exception of Ragnarok, I've been bored to tears with the Avengers. I hope the whole lot get dusted next month.

Tony EH

Dades wrote: »

Any quartet of films that grossed nearly 5 billion and included TFA and R1 (both exceptionally popular movies) could hardly be a monumental mess.

I don't disagree that they've made some bad decisions, just your hyperbole.

Money is not an indication of quality. It never has been.

In any case, even if we only look at the films, the essential trend is that the money accrued has been on a downward tick since 2015, culminating in pretty much a flatline for 'Solo'.

The reaction to 'The Last Jedi' certainly disturbed Disney, but the dearth of audience for 'Solo' scared Disney so much, that they took everything off the table and retreated into their shell to try and figure out what to do. That's not an indication of success by any measure.

And none of what I've said is "hyperbole".

Goodshape

Disappointing box office take less than a billion

Venom wrote: »

If brand over-saturation is the real issue, how come the Marvel movies have pretty much gone from strength to strength over the last decade with the MCU having over 20 plus movies made and at least another 6 in development, yet fans are constantly looking forward to the next one.

The MCU has a huge and highly diverse 50+ years of stories and a multitude of characters to draw upon.

Star Wars had 3 films.

Dades

Runaway hit highest gross beating The force Awakens

Tony EH wrote: »

Money is not an indication of quality.

I never equated them.

Theboinkmaster

Total flop and a financial loss for Disney

Goodshape wrote: »

Star Wars had 3 films.

That's the travesty though of what Disney have done with Star Wars so far - so many possibilities of standalone TV shows or movies in the Star Wars universe....

Tony EH

Goodshape wrote: »

The MCU has a huge and highly diverse 50+ years of stories and a multitude of characters to draw upon.

Star Wars had 3 films.

...6 films, tons of novels, a ****load of comics and games.

Plus, Star Wars has an entire universe to play with that's not constraint to a simple superhero vs supervillain.

There's potentially more to Star Wars than there is in any Marvel/DC superhero story, which is essentially the same story over and over again, until they reset.

It's unfortunate that Disney haven't been able to figure that out and instead rebooted the one film in cinema history that absolutely didn't need a reboot.

Liamario

I think Disney started off well enough with TFA, but then things took a turn in TLJ. They had at least created a few new characters that you felt something for. The prequels were worse than these movies to be fair. Hiatus is needed and some time to properly develop the stories. Stop doing stupid spin-offs whose only aim is to explain things that don't need explaining.

Gbear

Liamario wrote: »

I think Disney started off well enough with TFA, but then things took a turn in TLJ. They had at least created a few new characters that you felt something for. The prequels were worse than these movies to be fair. Hiatus is needed and some time to properly develop the stories. Stop doing stupid spin-offs whose only aim is to explain things that don't need explaining.

I don't agree. I think the seeds of the failure of this series in terms of its ability to tell a compelling 3-episode story were sown in the first film.

They needed someone with some kind of vision that could establish a new series and instead they brought in the most befuddled and scatterbrained of directors in JJ Abrams.

So you've had a couple of decent films in terms of the quality of production and how their dialogue was written, quality of acting and CGI, but they fail to make much of a lasting impression and don't really hold together as a trilogy, or even really as part of the broader Star Wars family.

They feel tacked on, and glued together.

I'm interested to see what Rian Johnson and Benihoff and Weiss's trilogies are, because at least then we should see some kind of unified thought underpinning them, although I'm not terribly impressed by the latter duo's ability to write when left to their own devices.

Goodshape

Disappointing box office take less than a billion

Tony EH wrote: »

...6 films, tons of novels, a ****load of comics and games.

I meant 3 films that anybody likes or cares about.

Plus 3 awful films and a ton of fan fiction.

Plus, Star Wars has an entire universe to play

Only the most literal sense. As in, yeah – it's set in space which is, I guess, the "universe". But the story itself was pretty small and very simple. Looked great. Very exciting. But not exactly deep.

Tony EH

Goodshape wrote: »

I meant 3 films that anybody likes or cares about.

Plus 3 awful films and a ton of fan fiction.


Only the most literal sense. As in, yeah – it's set in space which is, I guess, the "universe". But the story itself was pretty small and very simple. Looked great. Very exciting. But not exactly deep.

The point still remains. The possibilities and potential for Star Wars is far greater than anything the MCU has to offer, which is the same story over and over again.

If the makers have made the universe small, that's their own doing.

A lot of folk were happy when Disney threw everything out and went back to year zero. But, they didn't replace it with anything worthwhile.

Gbear

Tony EH wrote: »

The point still remains. The possibilities and potential for Star Wars is far greater than anything the MCU has to offer, which is the same story over and over again.

If the makers have made the universe small, that's their own doing.

A lot of folk were happy when Disney threw everything out and went back to year zero. But, they didn't replace it with anything worthwhile.

There's only so much they can release at a time.

I hope that they just give this particular period they've stuck to since the beginning a wide berth for about 50 years now.

An Old Republic Film series, which Benihoff and Weiss are supposedly doing, along with the all the other media that they'll build around it, whether it's retelling old, but good stories, like Darth Bane, or the story from KotOR about Revan, or they just start afresh, will be a welcome departure from this increasingly claustrophobic period they've stuck to thus far.

Too much prequelling and back-filling, and trying to tie up old stories that nobody reallllly needed tied up. Not enough fresh exploration of the galaxy.

Tony EH

Gbear wrote: »

There's only so much they can release at a time.

I hope that they just give this particular period they've stuck to since the beginning a wide berth for about 50 years now.

If by "this particular period", you mean nu-Star Wars, with Rey, Finn and whatever then yes. Because it's been crap. Plus, I don't see any of those actors returning. So, more than likely, it's the last we'll see of them on the big screen anyway.

However, if you mean the Imperial period that was set up in the original movies, then no. I'd like more of that, because it was the most fleshed out period that Star Wars have engaged in. They can keep that setting. They just need to expand the story.

Gbear wrote: »

An Old Republic Film series, which Benihoff and Weiss are supposedly doing, along with the all the other media that they'll build around it, whether it's retelling old, but good stories, like Darth Bane, or the story from KotOR about Revan, or they just start afresh, will be a welcome departure from this increasingly claustrophobic period they've stuck to thus far.

Never cared too much to the Old Republic stuff really. But, if the films are actually good, then bring it on. If the 'Game of Thrones' lads can write something as compelling as that show, then I'm all in.

Gbear wrote: »

Too much prequelling and back-filling, and trying to tie up old stories that nobody reallllly needed tied up. Not enough fresh exploration of the galaxy.

Agreed. Too many answers to questions nobody asked.

Dades

Runaway hit highest gross beating The force Awakens

Gbear wrote: »

Too much prequelling and back-filling, and trying to tie up old stories that nobody reallllly needed tied up. Not enough fresh exploration of the galaxy.

As a stand alone movie, Rouge One was really good.

Solo risked trying to tell the origin of Han Solo of all characters, and was released only about a month after TLJ appeared on DVD. Unwanted and badly timed. A definite misstep - despite being quite a fun movie.

But you can't say that bringing back Luke, Han and Leia for the new trilogy didn't send the hype into the stratosphere. That's what made TFA box office. Getting the same buy-in from both old and new generations after so many years would have been impossible without some callbacks to the OT. A complete break would never have been as box office.