Liam Miller - An Irish Solution To An Irish Problem

Clareman

Bonniedog wrote: »

Don't want to get into trouble again so will keep it brief:

1) How can GAA Central Council over-ride a part of the organisation's own rules, as passed by Congress.

The didn't over-ride them, they found a way around them, the "match" isn't a competition with GAA sports, tacking on a GAA event onto it helps get it around the rules even more.

Bonniedog wrote: »

2) It is nonsense to believe that any organisation receiving state funding has to allow access to its facilities to anyone.

Yup.

Hitman3000

Bonniedog wrote:

2) It is nonsense to believe that any organisation receiving state funding has to allow access to its facilities to anyone.

Take it up with the EU or the GAA could give back the 30 million.

Clareman

Hitman3000 wrote: »

Take it up with the EU or the GAA could give back the 30 million.

Better get onto all these organisations to open up their facilities

http://www.dttas.ie/sites/default/files/publications/sport/english/sports-capital-programme-2017-local-allocations/2017-scp-list-grants-publication.pdf

Hitman3000

Clareman wrote:

Better get onto all these organisations to open up their facilities

You could always ask the EU to investigate their funding, they investigated the funding for PUiC and the ruling has been referenced further back.

Clareman

Hitman3000 wrote: »

You could always ask the EU to investigate their funding, they investigated the funding for PUiC and the ruling has been referenced further back.

In my opinion PuC shouldn't have been done up like that anyway, it's a complete white elephant of a stadium that wasn't needed, there's already 3 other stadiums in Munster with capacities of over 40k. That €30 million and the other €50 million should never have been spent on it

Bonniedog

Hitman3000 wrote: »

Take it up with the EU or the GAA could give back the 30 million.

You are missing the point. Lots of things are publicly funded. that doesn't give every person on the street the right to demand to use them at the drop of a hat, as has happened here.


Just think about it logically for a second.

Ultimate farce about all of this is that South Dublin City Council gave an FAI team a free pitch that can't even half fill. How about a basketball court or a pitch and putt course there? After all, it belongs to us. We're paying for it. Attendances or the JD conglomerate certainly aren't.

Hitman3000

Bonniedog wrote:

You are missing the point. Lots of things are publicly funded. that doesn't give every person on the street the right to demand to use them at the drop of a hat, as has happened here.

Not missing any point. First of all it wasn't at the drop of a hat. The funding came with conditions. The EU investigated and a report was linked on this thread. Have a read.

Hitman3000

Bonniedog wrote:

Ultimate farce about all of this is that South Dublin City Council gave an FAI team a free pitch that can't even half fill. How about a basketball court or a pitch and putt course there? After all, it belongs to us. We're paying for it. Attendances or the JD conglomerate certainly aren't.

Whataboutery

Bonniedog

Hitman3000 wrote: »

Not missing any point. First of all it wasn't at the drop of a hat. The funding came with conditions. The EU investigated and a report was linked on this thread. Have a read.

Fine. So Ross got his constituents 150k for a hockey pitch in a private school.

So it will be okay for local soccer teams - who got virtually nothing from SC grants - to demand that they be given the use of the hockey pitch for training and five a sides?

Well?

Bonniedog

Bonniedog wrote: »

Ultimate farce about all of this is that South Dublin City Council gave an FAI team a free pitch that can't even half fill. How about a basketball court or a pitch and putt course there? After all, it belongs to us. We're paying for it. Attendances or the JD conglomerate certainly aren't.

I guess in the interests of fairness, the same applies to PuC.

How many times a year will it be full?

And will our €30 mill be paid off by attendances? Over how long?

Hitman3000

Bonniedog wrote:

Well?

Well what? This thread is about the Liam Miller charity match, if the other stuff concerns you get in touch with those concerned. Doesn't interest me.

Bonniedog

Clearly the only thing that interests you about the GAA is this issue.


There will be pay back for this. Don't poke the bear as they say. 500,000 members.

Bridge93

Wesley College pitches are used by one or two local schools as well as a number of companies who organise camps for children and foreign kids in Ireland for the summer.

YMCA Hockey Club play in the school and the facilities are used by Irish hockey occasionally. Tag rugby events are played on the grounds. The pitches are also all open to rent on the school website.

The grant was a bit ridiculous but the facilities are certainly more open than a PUC has been

Bridge93

Bonniedog wrote: »

Clearly the only thing that interests you about the GAA is this issue.


There will be pay back for this. Don't poke the bear as they say. 500,000 members.

Payback for what? The GAA listening to the majority of its members and coming to an agreement to allow a charity event be played on their facilities?

Fr Tod Umptious

People are too quick to equate the EU funding with the actual playing of soccer or any other non GAA sport at PUC.

As others have pointed out here over the past week or so being compliant with the EU funding may mean allowing use of the gym or conference facalities, or even haiving a process in place to decide on the opening of facalities.

Even the GAA themselves said in their statment of last week they are taking legal advice on it.

Bridge93

Said it before, the funding issue needs to be put to one side until an authority with more knowledge than anyone here makes a call on it one way or the other. It's pure speculation

Bonniedog

Bridge93 wrote: »

Payback for what? The GAA listening to the majority of its members and coming to an agreement to allow a charity event be played on their facilities?

Was there a vote? Missed that.

bobbyss

Anyone know the times of the games themselves and how will they deal with the different pitch markings and goals posts for the two games?

pat ticket

Bonniedog wrote: »

You are missing the point. Lots of things are publicly funded. that doesn't give every person on the street the right to demand to use them at the drop of a hat, as has happened here.


Just think about it logically for a second.

Ultimate farce about all of this is that South Dublin City Council gave an FAI team a free pitch that can't even half fill. How about a basketball court or a pitch and putt course there? After all, it belongs to us. We're paying for it. Attendances or the JD conglomerate certainly aren't.

That pitch is used by football, rugby and American football teams

Bridge93

Bonniedog wrote: »

Was there a vote? Missed that.

So the payback you're calling for is in relation to the charity event being allowed.

Bonniedog

Bridge93 wrote: »

So the payback you're calling for is in relation to the charity event being allowed.

People who hate the GAA forcing the Central Council to breach its own rules.



This is part of bigger picture to force GAA to surrender all its facilities. I said this last week, and that they would use the EU ruling in their attempt.

I will give Croke Park some benefit of the doubt in regards to how they were railroaded into this. I just hope they have some good legal advice over next few months or we'll be watching All Ireland final before a Shelbourne relegation game!

This is the second time you've attacked the character of those involved in the event.

It really is not good enough that you hide behind anonymity while making vague and unspecified allegations. It's not as serious as the last one, but clearly you are bursting to say something.

KrustyUCC

bobbyss wrote: »

Anyone know the times of the games themselves and how will they deal with the different pitch markings and goals posts for the two games?

I would imagine the soccer goalposts will be borrowed and set on the 21s with the different lines in different colours

GAA pitch markings all good to go just need different colour paint for the soccer pitch

Bonniedog

Deleted User wrote: »

This is the second time you've attacked the character of those involved in the event.

It really is not good enough that you hide behind anonymity while making vague and unspecified allegations. It's not as serious as the last one, but clearly you are bursting to say something.

I'm not attacking anyone's character. In fairness there has been fair bit of personal comment on both sides.

Pointless in pursuing it and don't want to be sanctioned again as enjoy discussing games, so that's me done on this issue.

Podge_irl

No one can "demand" anything of the GAA and nor should they be able to. There is actually a fairly pleasant middle ground where other organisations can not demand to use a facility and the owner of that facility doesn't outright ban by right those other organisations.

The legal question is whether going through an annual congress to get permission to host an event (and reference is made specifically to "other field sports") satisfies the "non-discriminatory and transparent" process for opening up the stadium. I would argue it doesn't but it is a subtle question.

However, ultimately, it was not the FAI (who have almost zero to do with this) or the organisers "demanding" the use of PuC. It was a general public interest in a partly publicly funded stadium not being disallowed for use out of hand by an inherently discriminatory rule of the organisation.

Edgware

Now lets see the 45000 fill it on a Tuesday. Three weeks of the League of Ireland attendance should do it

pat ticket

Edgware wrote: »

Now lets see the 45000 fill it on a Tuesday. Three weeks of the League of Ireland attendance should do it

If the fans of Ireland's most popular club sports teams in any code - Man Utd and Liverpool - turn out then it shouldn't be a problem.

Bonniedog

Just prod the sheep.

Will youse beat us? Burning question of the day.

Clareman

Edgware wrote: »

Now lets see the 45000 fill it on a Tuesday. Three weeks of the League of Ireland attendance should do it

1 week of lads flying over to premiership games would do it :pac::pac::pac:

Clareman

Edgware wrote: »

Now lets see the 45000 fill it on a Tuesday. Three weeks of the League of Ireland attendance should do it

In all seriousness, I hope they get a good crowd at it but I don't think any sport could fill PuC on a Tuesday in September.

PTH2009

Hopefully I'll get to go down to it. Be nice to support the cause and see what the stadium will be like marked out in a soccer format

The timings is very unusual. 3pm on a Tuesday People will be in work, kids in school etc at that time. Surly they could of talked the players into having it on a weekend

Bonniedog

PTH2009 wrote: »

Hopefully I'll get to go down to it. Be nice to support the cause and see what the stadium will be like marked out in a soccer format

The timings is very unusual. 3pm on a Tuesday People will be in work, kids in school etc at that time. Surly they could of talked the players into having it on a weekend

They could have the All Ireland final as a warm up. Or maybe after the Pope

Hitman3000

Bonniedog wrote:

They could have the All Ireland final as a warm up. Or maybe after the Pope

You need to move on, that type of bitterness is unhealthy.

Bonniedog

A sense of humour and of the absurd is always healthy.

Some of us are not doffing our caps.

Hitman3000

Bonniedog wrote:

A sense of humour and of the absurd is always healthy.

There is no humour in your posts. There is thinly veiled character assassination against the organisers if the charity event and as I said an unhealthy amount of bitterness.

Bonniedog

All a matter of taste I suppose.

I think your and other's accusations of "character assassination" is what some might term micro aggression. If I believed in such nonsense,

Now, off to watch what promises to be interesting documentary about hurling.


I doubt you be interested ...

keeponhurling

Obviously the charity is a good cause and many people will want to support it.

But are people genuinely interested in the event itself ?
It's retired players playing a friendly game.

The likes of Keane or Giggs were great players 10 or 20 years ago, no question. But I'd have little interest in watching them now.

They'll do well to sellout 45000 tickets.

PTH2009

keeponhurling wrote: »

Obviously the charity is a good cause and many people will want to support it.

But are people genuinely interested in the event itself ?
It's retired players playing a friendly game.

The likes of Keane or Giggs were great players 10 or 20 years ago, no question. But I'd have little interest in watching them now.

They'll do well to sellout 45000 tickets.

Doubt it will sell out but a few people might buy tickets just to give money to the benefactors and not go to the event itself

In fairness it's an awkward time and won't suite everyone. A 3pm on a Tuesday at the end of September.

I grew up watching the great Man Utd team and players such as Duff and Robbie Keane and never seen them , it will be still nice to see them in person. Even if the games itself will be a balls it's all going to good cause and History is been made as it's the first non GAA sporting event taking place in a GAA outside of Croke Park

aidan24326

Clareman wrote: »

Why does there need to be a fund raiser for a professional soccer player? Unfortunately 36 year olds die all the time leaving family behind them, most aren't employed in 1 of the best paid jobs in the world by the biggest club in the world, why can't be the fund raiser be for a far larder audience than just 1 family and a hospice.

Can anyone tell me what exactly this IS raising funds for? I appreciate there's a charity element to it but media reports have consistently referenced it being 'for the Miller family'. As tragic as it is that a young man has died I doubt he left his wife and kids as paupers considering the job he had, and if this event is to raise money for a related charity that's great but I don't know why they keep suggesting it's to give his family a dig out? can anyone clarify what exactly is/was the motivation for this event and who is supposed to benefit?

FWIW I'm glad sense has prevailed and it will be held in PUC but the whole thing was badly handled by all sides. The GAA management have not covered themselves in glory but in fairness they were dragged into a situation that initially had nothing to do with them.

Bonniedog

Bonniedog wrote: »

I'm not attacking anyone's character. In fairness there has been fair bit of personal comment on both sides.

Bonniedog wrote: »

All a matter of taste I suppose.

I think your and other's accusations of "character assassination" is what some might term micro aggression. If I believed in such nonsense...

The post that was removed was a very serious and defamatory attack on those organising the event, to the point where both it and posts quoting it were removed.

You clearly want to have a go again.

It is attacking their character, it is not micro aggression (though why you rven be aggressive is beyond me).

You can discuss the issue without hinting that you know unsavoury stuff about people who have been named and are easily identifiable.

keeponhurling

I think the money is only for the Miller family. Well that's how it's reported in the papers anyways.

Indeed it would make you wonder if simply donating to cancer charities might benenfit more people.

Fr Tod Umptious

keeponhurling wrote: »

I think the money is only for the Miller family. Well that's how it's reported in the papers anyways.

Indeed it would make you wonder if simply donating to cancer charities might benenfit more people.

That is certainly not the case

This is an extract from the Irish Times from last week

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/gaa-promise-to-consider-hosting-liam-miller-tribute-match-at-pairc-ui-chaoimh-1.3575450

Proceeds of the game and of a banquet at Cork City Hall hosted by the Lord Mayor of Cork, Cllr Mick Finn will go to Liam Miller’s widow, Clare and three children, Kory, Leo and Belle. Marymount Hospice in Cork, where Mr Miller died last February at the age of just 36 from oesophageal cancer, will also benefit.

Bridge93

The Sun and Mirror reported Marymount benefiting from it yesterday too

KrustyUCC

bobbyss wrote: »

Anyone know the times of the games themselves and how will they deal with the different pitch markings and goals posts for the two games?

Was listening to Michael O'Flynn on the radio this morning

Seems to the GAA element will involve small sided games between Eire Og boys and girls and some other team

Pitch will just be lined for the soccer match in that case

Bonniedog

KrustyUCC wrote: »

Was listening to Michael O'Flynn on the radio this morning

Seems to the GAA element will involve small sided games between Eire Og boys and girls and some other team

Pitch will just be lined for the soccer match in that case

Sweet.Science

KrustyUCC wrote: »

Was listening to Michael O'Flynn on the radio this morning

Seems to the GAA element will involve small sided games between Eire Og boys and girls and some other team

Pitch will just be lined for the soccer match in that case

Brilliant for the kids . Getting to play in PUC before such an event . Just shows you people shouldnt of threw their toys out of the pram about a GAA match being on before it before they knew what it was .

KrustyUCC

Eire Og games will be at half time

A good solution I think

People also threw the toys out of the pram about the GAA making money from the event but they are giving the stadium free of charge

GAA to make Páirc Uí Chaoimh available free of charge for Liam Miller match
Event will include a juvenile match in honour of former soccer player’s GAA background

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/gaa-to-make-p%C3%A1irc-u%C3%AD-chaoimh-available-free-of-charge-for-liam-miller-match-1.3581217

munchkin_utd

from that irish times article , another mystery is solved

Mr O’Flynn said a 3pm weekday kickoff was not the ideal time for hosting the game, but hosting an evening banquet which will be attended by many of the former soccer stars meant it had to an afternoon kickoff. He hoped companies would be flexible in allowing staff to attend.

Bonniedog

munchkin_utd wrote: »

from that irish times article , another mystery is solved

munchkin_utd

KrustyUCC wrote: »

Eire Og games will be at half time

A good solution I think

People also threw the toys out of the pram about the GAA making money from the event but they are giving the stadium free of charge

GAA to make Páirc Uí Chaoimh available free of charge for Liam Miller match
Event will include a juvenile match in honour of former soccer player’s GAA background

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/gaa-to-make-p%C3%A1irc-u%C3%AD-chaoimh-available-free-of-charge-for-liam-miller-match-1.3581217

very fitting that the Eire Og underage teams are part of it seeing as they're exactly the teams that Liam played with when he was still at home.

From the looks of it the idea of all star or other adult teams playing has been abandoned and the half time mini game is the GAA aspect of the day. Again, seems apt as theres no real connection between intercounty, or even adult, hurling or football to Liams playing days.