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Diabetic-v-Sugar Free?
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28-07-2018 9:55pm#1
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jace_da_face wrote: »Sugar is not the cause of type 2 diabetes. It is a myth. A high fat diet is the cause but this message is not getting out. Because diabetic patients have high blood sugar then it is assumed that sugar in the diet must be the cause. But the cause is insulin resistance which prevents sugar being delivered to the cells that need it. And the reason for the resistance - intramyocellular globules caused by a high fat diet.
https://nutritionfacts.org/2016/11/17/fat-is-the-cause-of-type-2-diabetes/
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/04/110411121539.htm
im just going to call bullsh1t to that, while i would say that the worst combination is a high sugar and high fat diet , the major trend in the west was an increase in sugar and an increase in frequency of eating hence the explosion of type 2 and obesity in general.
there was a reason for the "french paradox" based on the fact that they ate a higher fat diet that wasnt a paradox, it was more that the low fat and higher sugar diet was wrong.
i bet you are a vegan
A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer
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silverharp wrote: »i bet you are a vegan
Really? Wow! Where do I begin. What I eat or you eat is irrelevant. Either the argument is true or it is not and what I put into my mouth does not make it any more or less true. If I claimed that smoking is a risk factor for lung cancer, would the fact that I was a non smoker make that any more or less true?
But I suspect you are attempting to suggest that I harbour some hidden agenda and that my argument is therefore not based on any scientific basis. Ad hominem fallacy will not win your argument.silverharp wrote: »there was a reason for the "french paradox" based on the fact that they ate a higher fat diet that wasnt a paradox, it was more that the low fat and higher sugar diet was wrong.
i bet you are a vegan
Your attempt to dazzle me with science is misguided. The “French Paradox” refers to the apparent low incidence of Coronary Heart Disease amongst the French population whilst consuming a diet high in saturated fat. It does not reference diabetes.
BTW, this “apparent” paradox is controversial. It has been claimed that the statistical data that show this paradox is flawed, that CHD is under reported etc. Law and Wald. Even if it is taken as real, there is very little support that there is a causal link between high saturated fat intake and low incidence of CHD. There are many attempts to explain this paradox through other mitigating factors, such as possible protective effects of consumption of wine, fruit and vegetables, physical activity and other cultural traits.
But if you believe the French Pardox to be real, just realise that this quite likely makes no odds to you as you do not live in France. And no such paradox has be shown to exist in Ireland.0 -
jace_da_face wrote: »Really? Wow! Where do I begin. What I eat or you eat is irrelevant. Either the argument is true or it is not and what I put into my mouth does not make it any more or less true. If I claimed that smoking is a risk factor for lung cancer, would the fact that I was a non smoker make that any more or less true?
But I suspect you are attempting to suggest that I harbour some hidden agenda and that my argument is therefore not based on any scientific basis. Ad hominem fallacy will not win your argument.
Your attempt to dazzle me with science is misguided. The “French Paradox” refers to the apparent low incidence of Coronary Heart Disease amongst the French population whilst consuming a diet high in saturated fat. It does not reference diabetes.
BTW, this “apparent” paradox is controversial. It has been claimed that the statistical data that show this paradox is flawed, that CHD is under reported etc. Law and Wald. Even if it is taken as real, there is very little support that there is a causal link between high saturated fat intake and low incidence of CHD. There are many attempts to explain this paradox through other mitigating factors, such as possible protective effects of consumption of wine, fruit and vegetables, physical activity and other cultural traits.
But if you believe the French Pardox to be real, just realise that this quite likely makes no odds to you as you do not live in France. And no such paradox has be shown to exist in Ireland.
its clear that the main change in the last 50 years or so is a steady increase in processed sugar in everything. Also looking at it from an insulin perspective , its sugar that spikes insulin the most for most people, you could eat a stick a butter and your insulin would barely budge. If you look at the US for instance their metabolic damage is clearly due to a massive increase in foods and drinks containing sugar. If someone ate a low sugar diet , they wouldn’t get insulin resistance, that’s how most hormones work, if they are turned on all the time your body becomes resistant to them.
I would say a high carb whole foods diet can work too, but very few people are raised that way so most people looking at this in their 30’s or 40’s have swilled back a swimming pool’s worth of coke and the rest.
So em, are you vegan? A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer
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As a diabetic of some years standing
Sugar contributes to Type 2 diabetes but is not a primary cause.
High sugar diets in conjunction with much more sedentary lifestyle is a major factor.
But type 2 diabetes is not "just" high blood sugar due to dietary choices.
It is an autoimmune condition whereby the body develops a heightened tolerance to insulin and as such more and more insulin is required to process a "normal" amount of sugar.
The stuff labelled as "diabetic" usually is quite high in fat.
Same goes for anything with high natural or fruit sugars, fructose,glucose, and corn syrup.
All sugar is sugar, regardless of its "naturalness" the body responds to sugar of any kind by increasing insulin output, so if keeping blood sugar low is a goal watch total sugars/Carbs.
If diabetes or pre-diabetes is a worry, more exercise and a balanced diet is the best course.1 -
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As a diabetic of some years standing
Sugar contributes to Type 2 diabetes but is not a primary cause.
High sugar diets in conjunction with much more sedentary lifestyle is a major factor.
But type 2 diabetes is not "just" high blood sugar due to dietary choices.
It is an autoimmune condition whereby the body develops a heightened tolerance to insulin and as such more and more insulin is required to process a "normal" amount of sugar.
The stuff labelled as "diabetic" usually is quite high in fat.
Same goes for anything with high natural or fruit sugars, fructose,glucose, and corn syrup.
All sugar is sugar, regardless of its "naturalness" the body responds to sugar of any kind by increasing insulin output, so if keeping blood sugar low is a goal watch total sugars/Carbs.
If diabetes or pre-diabetes is a worry, more exercise and a balanced diet is the best course.
I’d imagine there are genetic factors at play but in as much people can take control of all this diet or how you eat plays an important role. For instance people who have had bariatric surgery tend to see their type 2 symptoms go away quickly even though it might take them a year or more to lose the weight. There is a Canadian doctor (Jason Fung) who treats type 2 patients with fasting protocols and he seems to be able to reverse symptoms in his patients. He would tend to advise a low carb diet along side this but I’d assume its mostly about losing the foods that spike insulinA belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer
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jace_da_face wrote: »
Well I’m sorry to hear that Banie. What is the mechanism by which the metabolism fails to deliver fuel to our cells? Is it just genes and bad luck? If there is growing evidence that points to role of saturated fat in type 2 diabetes, should we not question this?
Let me ask you this. What is the general prognosis for diabetes treatment? As in, is it seen as a condition that needs to be managed? Over a lifetime? Or is it seen as a condition to be cured or reversed?
I think we should look at all research available with open minds. Is high blood sugar the cause or a symptom of something else.
https://nutritionstudies.org/diabesity-treating-symptoms-rather-causes/
I was diagnosed at quite an "odd" age for T2, I was 26 but relatively fit playing sports and while my BMI at the time of diagnosis was @27 that was at 85% muscle mass so wasn't really a factor.
Usually type 2 is associated with middle age, or poor lifestyle at the time I was diagnosed I had neither of those issues
It would seem now that I have what is becoming known as type 1.5 or LADA still waiting on it to be nailed down fully.
I am in very good control of my diabetes but unfortunately as time progresses control slips, and action such as more medication is needed.
I'm now in the "insulin-dependent" bracket, more and still very well controlled.
Over the past 12yrs I have probably only been in a "diabetic" range on my hbA1c for @5/6 months.
That seems great, but unfortunately even staying below that range on the high side of low still leads to issues.
Particularly with the smaller blood vessels. Loss of sensitivity in the fingers and toes, issues with the kidneys and scariest from my own point of view, blindness.
A quick breakdown of the complications experienced are
Complication/ Prevalence
Acute Myocardial Infection (Heart Attack) – 0.46%
Stroke – 0.53%
Lower Limb Amputation – 0.28%
Peripheral Neuropathy (pain in extremities) – 21.5%
Retinopathy (vision compilations) – 28.5%
Chronic Kidney Disease/ Kidney Failure – 39.8%
Vision-threatening retinopathy (blindness) – 4.4%
The current reality is that if you aren't able to reverse your Diabetes(And much of the success of reversal via Newcastle diet and similar isn't always a given, a lot of the furore around the success of fasting in reversal on closer reading of the studies is often other metabolic disorders masking as diabetes/pre-diabetes even including plain old poor impulse control and grazing)
That slow decline and deterioration of your vascular and nervous system is inevitable.
It can be delayed by good control of Blood glucose, blood pressure and keeping active but it is very much a delaying game rather than prevention or cure at current treatment regimes.
There are plenty of studies for alternate drugs and gene therapies that show promise however and hopefully they will hit the mainstream before the impending diabetes "epidemic" hits the health services in the west.
Of particular interest for anyone researching Diabetes should be the incidence of T2 or "Adult onset" should be the rates of prevalence in India and China and the Diet's in those areas.0 -
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