Ahed Tamimi - a young woman to admire

SnakePlissken

Thoughtform wrote: »

but there are folk who are weirdly defensive of Israel policy on Palestine

I can only speak for myself, but though I completely support Israel's right to exist, I'm not blind to the abuses they are capable of inflicting, nor have I ever supported Israel's policies wholesale. But anyone who wishes to label all Palestinians as the good guys, and all Israelis the bad, really isn't looking at the conflict objectively, there's plenty of monsters on both sides. There is a thread in After Hours more suited to debate on the wider conflict, this thread is about one Palestinian in particular who, in my opinion, is little more than a mouthy gob****e.

WinnyThePoo

ah yes ...a mouthy gob****e who had seen her 15 cousin shot and killed the same day.

dotsman

Thoughtform wrote: »

I support Israel's right to defend itself

Agree

Thoughtform wrote: »

(but I don't support how it tends to do so disproportionately),

Agree (although there is debate over what is and is not disproportionate)

Thoughtform wrote: »

I think Hamas is full of scumbags,

Agree

Thoughtform wrote: »

I feel for ordinary innocent Israelis living in fear...

Agree

Thoughtform wrote: »

but your comment is just needless provocation - "assaults people"? Don't be dishonest - assaulted a person with a slap.

Afraid I disagree here. If somebody came up to you and started kicking and slapping you, would you not regard it as assault?

Thoughtform wrote: »

She shouldn't have done it,

Agree

Thoughtform wrote: »

but what about the scummy assault she did it in retaliation to? Any opinion on that?

Don't know enough about it to comment on it and would just be dragging the thread off topic if I did. Ultimately, I would go with the old "Two wrongs don't make a right". Given her history of violence, and the fact that her family and wider society encourage her to act violently, I don't think she needs much precedence to set her off.

Thoughtform wrote: »

I think anti-semitism is reprehensible by the way.

Agree

Thoughtform wrote: »

It's also odious the way critics of the Israeli military are just branded anti-semitic because of an inability to think of a more intelligent riposte

But, often, people view the IDF and the actions of the IDF in black and white and as a single entity. Often, this hatred is from an anti-semitic foundation.

Thoughtform wrote: »

Sarah Silverman, the Jewish woman, must be anti-semitic so.

Not necessarily. Firstly, she is entitled to her opinion, the same as everybody else. Secondly, she is a comedian. Thirdly, her fanbase would be mostly US East-Coast centre-left to left-wing, and thus this position would be popular amongst her fans.

Thoughtform wrote: »

The way people will just latch onto one ideology and never stray from it (in case it looks like they agree with them ones over there) even when it makes no sense, is just... how hard is it to consider things from more than one "side"?

Full agree.

I am not some pro-Isreal, anti-islam blah blah blah although that is what I have been inferred as by many here (including yourself?) simply because I won't tow the party line. I just hate the default position of most Irish people that Israel is bad and Palestine is good.

To me, it's an extremely complex issue of which I have one singular overwhelming belief and that is that those who promote violence are the bad guys and those who promote acceptance and peace are the good guys and for there to be any progress made, those who promote violence need to be sidelined and those who promote acceptance and peace need to be brought to the fore.

As far as I am concerned, this girl has done nothing to deserve praise, and is now being worshiped for behaving like a scumbag.

dotsman

Discodog wrote: »

No civilised country puts a 15 yo in jail. I am a supporter of Israel's rights but not at the expense of others.

Virtually every civilised country puts 15 year olds in prison for committing repeated acts of violence. In Ireland, we don't do it enough.

dotsman

Odhinn wrote: »

Why anti-Israel? Because it engages in colonialism, unhindered by international law because of the US veto.

What colonialism? Do you know what colonialism is?

end of the road

Obi_Wan_Kenobi wrote: »

She is a terrorist scumbag.

when was she convicted of terrorism?

Obi_Wan_Kenobi wrote: »

Exactly, yet the anti semitic jew hating main stream media will portray this nazi scumbag **** as a hero.

And boards mentally ill leftist twats will clap along .

disgusting

nope fake news, the main stream media are not "anti semitic" or "jew hating"
they reported the truth about this non-nazi, non-scumbag hero, and boards non-mentally ill non-leftist non-twats who are a mix across the political spectrum, have correctly shown no sympathy for the IDF.

Obi_Wan_Kenobi wrote: »

Shhhhh!! don't you know ? it's cool and progressive to hate jews nowadays!!!

But if you critisize Islam you are a far right neo nazi .... jesus just typing that I can't believe it's actually true in 2018 - god help us all

again fake news. it's not cool and progressive to hate jews. criticising israel, it's government and military does not mean one hates jews. simply criticising islam doesn't make one far right or a nazi, however using the religion to target people of that religion can make you a bigot and racist.

Thoughtform

dotsman wrote: »

I am not some pro-Isreal, anti-islam blah blah blah although that is what I have been inferred as by many here (including yourself?) simply because I won't tow the party line. I just hate the default position of most Irish people that Israel is bad and Palestine is good.

I thought badly of you yes, because what you said was so provocative (it was not anywhere as nuanced as the above; it was very inflammatory in approach) - calling a kid scum for retaliating in anger and upset (she shouldn't have done it but can you not see at all whatsoever where it came from? Can't 15-year-olds be dumb?) but no comment on the action of the soldier. I don't get why you're happy to comment on one act of violence but not the other, more serious one. A lot of people like to be like that though when it comes to showing how bad-ass and edgy they are in their support for Israel, so yes, I did think you were one of the same folks. Thanks for the clarification.

I agree it is a complex matter - and there are plenty of bad 'uns among the Palestinians, but one thing that is not complex is: the brutality of the Israeli forces towards innocent Palestinians. I can't see how there's a grey area, and I dislike refusal to condemn it in order to show how a person doesn't toe a party line. Take the pride out of it, stand back and look at it objectively - that kind of repressive force by anyone deserves condemnation no matter where you're coming from. And cat-calls of "anti-semitism" for criticism of OTT military tactics just indicates not having much to work with whatsoever argument-wise.

There are certainly Irish people who jump on a pro Palestine bandwagon and refuse to deviate, but there are also those who jump on a pro Israeli military bandwagon and also refuse to deviate. Both should cop on and call out wrongdoing when it occurs.

Brae100

Good article here in Haaretz about the Tamimi family. While Haaetz is an Israeli publication, it is left leaning and is often critical of many Israeli tactics. They usually provide very objective commentary.

The Tamimis are no heroes. At this stage they are nearly professional propagandists. Ahed was encouraged as a child to approach and antagonise soldiers while her family filmed it, hoping for a reaction. Her mother live streamed the event that she was convicted of. She's no hero, she's a victim of parental child abuse.

Lots of mentions of her cousin who got hit with a rubber bullet. But no mention of her other family members like her aunt who was involved in the suicide bombing of the Sbarro pizza parlour that killed 15 innocent people.


https://www.haaretz.com/amp/opinion/.premium-the-reality-behind-the-tamimi-family-s-resistance-1.5630465

Snake Plisken

WinnyThePoo wrote: »

You and your ilk

I don't doubt your sincerity when it comes to the dehumanization of other humans.

I don't believe your sincerity when it comes to the lgbt community and you don't either.

He made a very honest post on another thread about how he campaigned for SSM campaign. So I think you owe him an apology!

WinnyThePoo

Snake Plisken wrote: »

He made a very honest post on another thread about how he campaigned for SSM campaign. So I think you owe him an apology!

Why would I apologize to you?

SnakePlissken

Thoughtform wrote: »

the brutality of the Israeli forces towards innocent Palestinians.

Have you seen the viral video, she repeatedly punches, kicks, and spits at the Israeli soldier yet he does not retaliate, I'd also add that if they were truly, completely, unwaveringly barbaric, they wouldn't have used rubber bullets to injure her cousin but would instead have used live rounds.

Not that I'm saying they're not capable of heinous acts, I just feel you've really misjudged who you wish to make a poster girl.

SnakePlissken

Snake Plisken wrote: »

WinnyThePoo wrote: »

You and your ilk

I don't doubt your sincerity when it comes to the dehumanization of other humans.

I don't believe your sincerity when it comes to the lgbt community and you don't either.

He made a very honest post on another thread about how he campaigned for SSM campaign. So I think you owe him an apology!

Don't worry about him Snake, I've put him on ignore, his opinion is worthless to me as would any apology, thanks though.

WinnyThePoo

Two snakes...one pc.

:pac:

Thoughtform

SnakePlissken wrote: »

Have you seen the viral video, she repeatedly punches, kicks, and spits at the Israeli soldier yet he does not retaliate, I'd also add that if they were truly, completely, unwaveringly barbaric, they wouldn't have used rubber bullets to injure her cousin but would instead have used live rounds.

Not that I'm saying they're not capable of heinous acts, I just feel you've really misjudged who you wish to make a poster girl.

I don't wish to make her a poster girl at all - I have said I don't think she should have done it. I just think the rage towards her seems, at best, disingenuous. And it doesn't take context into account.

The Crowman

WinnyThePoo wrote: »

ah yes ...a mouthy gob****e who had seen her 15 cousin shot and killed the same day.

He's still alive.

WinnyThePoo

The Crowman wrote: »

He's still alive.

My mistake, being shot in the head usually means one thing.

Galwayguy35

The conflict between the Israelis and the Palestinians is one in which no side comes out of it looking good.

Israel has a right to defend itself but civilian casualties are always very high when it goes after terrorists but groups like Hamas are just as bad when they try to kill Israeli civilians and then hide among the Palestinian civilian population.

Both sides are at fault but the condemnation is always one sided with all the blame left at Israels door.

As for the OP, I'm not sure what we are supposed to admire about this girl, I'm really not seeing what is so special about her.

dotsman

Thoughtform wrote: »

I thought badly of you yes, because what you said was so provocative (it was not anywhere as nuanced as the above; it was very inflammatory in approach) - calling a kid scum for retaliating in anger and upset (she shouldn't have done it but can you not see at all whatsoever where it came from? Can't 15-year-olds be dumb?) but no comment on the action of the soldier. I don't get why you're happy to comment on one act of violence but not the other, more serious one. A lot of people like to be like that though when it comes to showing how bad-ass and edgy they are in their support for Israel, so yes, I did think you were one of the same folks. Thanks for the clarification.

I agree it is a complex matter - and there are plenty of bad 'uns among the Palestinians, but one thing that is not complex is: the brutality of the Israeli forces towards innocent Palestinians. I can't see how there's a grey area, and I dislike refusal to condemn it in order to show how a person doesn't toe a party line. Take the pride out of it, stand back and look at it objectively - that kind of repressive force by anyone deserves condemnation no matter where you're coming from. And cat-calls of "anti-semitism" for criticism of OTT military tactics just indicates not having much to work with whatsoever argument-wise.

There are certainly Irish people who jump on a pro Palestine bandwagon and refuse to deviate, but there are also those who jump on a pro Israeli military bandwagon and also refuse to deviate. Both should cop on and call out wrongdoing when it occurs.

But please read my post again. Dy you think it is that provocative? My post is a direct response to the thread title and the topic of conversation - that we should "admire this young woman".

dotsman wrote: »

She's a scumbag who assaults people and then hides behind "oh, I'm a little girl".

I believe she is a scumbag. I think, if people took off the blinkers about how she is a girl and her victim is an Israeli soldier, they would agree. Let's change the filter slightly. If it was an 25-year-old man attacking a garda, would people be cheering or would they refer to the man (due to his actions) as a scumbag?

Do we agree it is "assault" (the hitting and kicking)?

Do you think her being a young girl is the reason why the soldiers can never defend themselves properly from her and why she is now being cheered by those with an Israeli-hating political view (whether we refer to them as anti-Israeli, anti-Semitic, anti-IDF)?

I am not commenting on the topic as to the events beforehand, not only because I simply don't know enough about them to have an opinion, but the thread would go off topic and suddenly every single incident in the history of the middle east is up for grabs. I am just trying to stay with the specifics of the title/topic. Likewise, on the retaliating in anger etc, you do realise this girl has several videos attacking IDF members, since pre-teen I believe. Her family specifically set it up so she (and other young children) assault soldiers in a bid to provoke an angry response from the soldiers while recording it. She has been raised by her family to behave like this. This was not a one-off reaction.

Perhaps I could phrase it differently, but not sure how as I was just trying to make a very clear and concise response to the Title and topic.

Again, all I am simply saying that she is not someone who anybody should admire, but the anti-Israeli brigade are promoting her as some sort of hero and is sickens me.

skepticalme

This article is about how this Palastinian girl and a Jewish settler were treated for the same offence.
Tamimi was tried in a military court and jailed. The Jewish settler in a civilian court and community service.

https://www.haaretz.com/opinion/.premium-what-happened-when-a-jewish-settler-slapped-an-israeli-soldier-1.5630408

SnakePlissken

Any chance you can post a link that's not hidden behind a pay wall?

s7ryf3925pivug

A lot of Jewish organizations have been protesting her treatment. A couple mainly in pragmatic terms, concerned by the image it projects.

https://www.ngo-monitor.org/reports/ngo-campaigns-ahed-tamimi-rights-children/

The posts attacking criticism of her imprisonment remind me of Orwell's description of delusions among nationalists in his essay Notes on Nationalism which is available online:

http://orwell.ru/library/essays/nationalism/english/e_nat

SnakePlissken

Edison Incalculable Tomato wrote: »

The posts attacking criticism of her imprisonment

There have been no "Attacks" criticising her imprisonment, it's a debate with two opposing views, surely as a reader of Orwell you must be aware of the dangers of Groupthink which is exactly what you're promoting?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Groupthink


I'd also add, one only has to re-read this thread to see much mud has been slung by certain posters who will hear no critique of Palestine.

Berserker

skepticalme wrote: »

This article is about how this Palestinian girl and a Jewish settler were treated for the same offence.
Tamimi was tried in a military court and jailed. The Jewish settler in a civilian court and community service.

https://www.haaretz.com/opinion/.premium-what-happened-when-a-jewish-settler-slapped-an-israeli-soldier-1.5630408

Has the Jewish girl got any previous?I'm going to guess that the answer to that question is 'No', so that would explain the difference.

Kiith

Criticize Israel for their disproportional acts of violence towards Palestinians...you support scumbag terrorists.
Say it's disgraceful how they treat the Palestinians within Gaza...jew hater.
Talk about how Israel break international law and steal Palestinian land for decades...you're anti-semetic.

Pretty much the standard defence from pro-Israel people. It's not all black and white folks. Hamas do some awful ****, but if you can't recognize that Israel have done some equally horrible things, then you deserve to be ignored.

s7ryf3925pivug

SnakePlissken wrote: »

There have been no "Attacks" criticising her imprisonment, it's a debate with two opposing views, surely as a reader of Orwell you must be aware of the dangers of Groupthink which is exactly what you're promoting?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Groupthink


I'd also add, one only has to re-read this thread to see much mud has been slung by certain posters who will hear no critique of Palestine.

There have been. First page for example:

dotsman wrote: »

She's a scumbag who assaults people and then hides behind "oh, I'm a little girl".

Maybe if your hatred of Jews/Israel wasn't so strong, you would see that.

Personally I would find accusations of racism/bigotry very offensive. It is a clear attack on the character.

PlaneSpeeking

I love the comments diminishing her actions as "just a slap, not assault".

I guarantee if an IDF soldier (and they have female commandos gender balance fans!!) slapped a big Palestinian lad - there'd be people whipping up the anti Semitic rhetoric like there was no tomorrow.

PlaneSpeeking

Edison Incalculable Tomato wrote: »

There have been. First page for example:



Personally I would find accusations of racism/bigotry very offensive. It is a clear attack on the character.

Odd that - mention that you're very much against the subjugation of women by Islam and the R word gets dragged out in an almost Pavlovian fashion.

s7ryf3925pivug

PlaneSpeeking wrote: »

Odd that - mention that you're very much against the subjugation of women by Islam and the R word gets dragged out in an almost Pavlovian fashion.

Not relevant.

PlaneSpeeking

Edison Incalculable Tomato wrote: »

Not relevant.

I disagree, pointing out hypocrisy is always relevant.

s7ryf3925pivug

PlaneSpeeking wrote: »

I disagree, pointing out hypocrisy is always relevant.

You're calling me a hypocrite for a position you incorrectly assume I have. Illustrates the mentality I'm talking about.

end of the road

Berserker wrote: »

Has the Jewish girl got any previous?I'm going to guess that the answer to that question is 'No', so that would explain the difference.

or more likely, religion is what makes the difference between whether one will be tried in a military court, or civilian court, in israel.

PlaneSpeeking wrote: »

I love the comments diminishing her actions as "just a slap, not assault".

I guarantee if an IDF soldier (and they have female commandos gender balance fans!!) slapped a big Palestinian lad - there'd be people whipping up the anti Semitic rhetoric like there was no tomorrow.

nothing anti-semetic about criticising the IDF.

skepticalme

Berserker wrote: »

Has the Jewish girl got any previous?I'm going to guess that the answer to that question is 'No', so that would explain the difference.

This is the article.

Opinion What Happened When a Jewish Settler Slapped an Israeli Soldier

Both Ahed Tamimi and Yifat Alkobi were questioned for slapping a soldier in the West Bank, but little else about their cases are similar — simply because one is Jewish, the other Palastinian.

This slap didn’t lead the nightly news. This slap, which landed on the cheek of a Nahal soldier in Hebron, did not lead to an indictment. The assailant, who slapped a soldier who was trying to stop her from throwing stones, was taken in for questioning but released on bail the same day and allowed to return home.

Prior to this incident, she had been convicted five times — for throwing rocks, for assaulting a police officer and for disorderly conduct, but was not jailed even once.


In one instance, she was sentenced to probation, and in the rest to a month of community service and practically a token fine, as compensation to the injured parties. The accused systematically failed to heed summonses for questioning or for legal proceedings, but soldiers did not come to drag her out of bed in the middle of the night, nor were any of her relatives arrested. Aside from a brief report by Chaim Levinson about the incident, on July 2, 2010, there were hardly any repercussions to the slap and scratches inflicted by Yifat Alkobi on the face of a soldier who caught her hurling rocks a Palestinians.

The Israel Defense Forces Spokesperson’s Unit said at the time that the army “takes a grave view of any incidence of violence toward security forces,” and yet the assailant goes on living peacefully at home. The education minister didn’t demand that she sit in prison, social media have not exploded with calls for her to be raped or murdered, and columnist Ben Caspit didn’t recommend that she punished to the full extent of the law “in a dark place, without cameras.”

Like Ahed Tamimi, Alkobi has been known for years to the military and police forces that surround her place of residence, and both are considered a nuisance and even a danger. The main difference between them is that Tamimi assaulted a soldier who was sent by a hostile government that does not recognize her existence, steals her land and kills and wounds her relatives, while Alkobi, a serial criminal, assaulted a soldier from her own people and her religion, who was sent by her nation to protect her, a nation in which she is a citizen with special privileges.

Jewish violence against soldiers in the territories has been a matter of routine for years. But even when it seems like there’s no point asking that soldiers in the territories protect Palestinians from physical harassment and vandalism of their property by settlers, it’s hard to understand why the authorities continue to turn a blind eye, to cover up and close cases or not even open them, when the violators are Jews. There is plenty of evidence, some of it recorded on camera. And yet the offenders still sleep at home in their beds, emboldened by divine command and amply funded by organizations that receive state support.
In the winter it’s nice to get warm and cozy under these double standards, but there’s one question that every Israeli should be asking himself: Tamimi and Alkobi committed the same offense. The punishment (or lack thereof) should be the same. If the choice is between freeing Tamimi or jailing Alkobi, which would you choose? Tamimi is to remain in custody for the duration of the proceedings — trial in a hostile military court — and is expected to receive a prison sentence. Alkobi, who was not prosecuted for this offense, and was tried in a civilian court for much more serious offenses, lived at home for the duration of the proceedings. She was represented by a lawyer who did not have to wait at a checkpoint in order to serve his client and her only punishment was community service.

The Likud and Habayit Hayehudi cabinet ministers have no reason to rush to pass a law that would apply Israeli law in the territories. Even without it, the only thing that matters is if you were born Jewish. Everything else is irrelevant.

SnakePlissken

When a child such as Ahed Tamimi, is raised by a family of child murderers and terrorists, it's hard to conceive she will grow into an activist for peace, a doubt only reinforced by her online exploits of biting, kicking, punching, and spitting at the IDF who have shown remarkable restraint when dealing with her.

With Israel responsible for so much legitimate injustice, that some wish to prop this little gob****e up as a poster girl for peace is baffling.

PlaneSpeeking

end of the road wrote: »

or more likely, religion is what makes the difference between whether one will be tried in a military court, or civilian court, in israel.



nothing anti-semetic about criticising the IDF.

It's Semitic and yes, there is.

Mike Hoch

archer22 wrote: »

The Hasbara have arrived on que...what a surprise

Can someone explain why Israel would employ people to post comments on a message board in a far away officially neutral country that it has fairly basic diplomatic and economic ties to, a minimal Jewish population, no Muslim voting bloc of significance, and where Ireland- Israel relations, and foreign affairs in general, are probably at the foot of the list of concerns for even adherents to far left parties like SF and PBP?

Irish people may care about Palestine, but when it comes to the elections it is about 37 places behind affordable housing, income, car insurance, childcare, the health service and so on. If I were an Israeli and gleaned evidence that taxpayers money was being spent to sway the opinions of the 0.1 percent of the Irish population who have read this thread at the time of writing, despite the fact Israel can operate with or without the support of the Irish government, I'd be a bit miffed. Israel couldn't care less if SF came to power in Ireland, but would be aghast if Corbyn came to power in the UK. The reason being they probably have the same level of diplomacy and international trade with Ireland as they do with Rwanda.

Mike Hoch

archer22 wrote: »

[

Because it's on World Wide Web and anybody anywhere in the world doing a search on the subject is likely to come across it ...Doh!

I'm not doubting that the Israelis do have a program of propoganda posters commenting on articles and boards directed at certain countries. For example I can see why they wouldn't want Corbyn as PM. I can see why they would want Trump as president. I believe they maintain cordial relations with Putin. I can see why they wouldn't want Erdogan in power in Turkey, and why they would back moderates in Egypt, as Turkey and Egypt have traditionally maintained somewhat cordial relations with Israel, well as cordial as it gets between Israel and Muslim states.

So I can see them attempting to influence news comment sections in these countries.

But little old republic of Ireland? A country where even the Troubles in the North wouldn't have been at the top of most voters priorities in the 80's and 90's? Why would they care what we think of them?

archer22

Mike Hoch wrote: »

Can someone explain why Israel would employ people to post comments on a message board in a far away officially neutral country that it has fairly basic diplomatic and economic ties to, a minimal Jewish population, no Muslim voting bloc of significance, and where Ireland- Israel relations, and foreign affairs in general, are probably at the foot of the list of concerns for even adherents to far left parties like SF and PBP?

Irish people may care about Palestine, but when it comes to the elections it is about 37 places behind affordable housing, income, car insurance, childcare, the health service and so on. If I were an Israeli and gleaned evidence that taxpayers money was being spent to sway the opinions of the 0.1 percent of the Irish population who have read this thread at the time of writing, despite the fact Israel can operate with or without the support of the Irish government, I'd be a bit miffed. Israel couldn't care less if SF came to power in Ireland, but would be aghast if Corbyn came to power in the UK. The reason being they probably have the same level of diplomacy and international trade with Ireland as they do with Rwanda.

Because it's on the World Wide Web and anybody anywhere in the world doing a search on the subject is likely to come across it..Doh!

archer22

Mike Hoch wrote: »

I'm not doubting that the Israelis do have a program of propoganda posters commenting on articles and boards directed at certain countries. For example I can see why they wouldn't want Corbyn as PM. I can see why they would want Trump as president. I believe they maintain cordial relations with Putin. I can see why they wouldn't want Erdogan in power in Turkey, and why they would back moderates in Egypt, as Turkey and Egypt have traditionally maintained somewhat cordial relations with Israel, well as cordial as it gets between Israel and Muslim states.

So I can see them attempting to influence news comment sections in these countries.

But little old republic of Ireland? A country where even the Troubles in the North wouldn't have been at the top of most voters priorities in the 80's and 90's? Why would they care what we think of them?

They employ thousands of people and not just in Israel to put out their propaganda and slander...and if that is failing in a discussion their plan B is to disrupt and wreck the conversation...It's all in their Hasbara Handbook which can be found by searching online.

Mike Hoch

archer22 wrote: »

They employ thousands of people and not just in Israel to put out their propaganda and slander...and if that is failing in a discussion their plan B is to disrupt and wreck the conversation...It's all in their Hasbara Handbook which can be found by searching online.

You're sounding like Alex Jones here.

Why?!?

The opinion of the Irish public on the conduct of Israel has as much impact on them as the opinion of the voters of the Solomon Islands.

The opinion of the British public would have a greater impact, which some might suggest is behind the attempts to portray Labour as anti semitic, given Corbyn is an opponent of Israeli foreign policy.

Israel doesn't care what the 4000 readers of this thread think of her and has no desire to communicate with them.

markodaly

Another Israel thread. Haven't seen one of these for about 3 days.

dr.fuzzenstein

markodaly wrote: »

Another Israel thread. Haven't seen one of these for about 3 days.

Well, you know the drill. Pick a side, plug your ears and shout your point of view as loud as you can without engaging or listening to the other side. They'll do the same.
The actual facts are irrelevant.

skepticalme

SnakePlissken wrote: »

When a child such as Ahed Tamimi, is raised by a family of child murderers and terrorists, it's hard to conceive she will grow into an activist for peace, a doubt only reinforced by her online exploits of biting, kicking, punching, and spitting at the IDF who have shown remarkable restraint when dealing with her.

With Israel responsible for so much legitimate injustice, that some wish to prop this little gob****e up as a poster girl for peace is baffling.

It's hard to believe that this girl wouldn't resist the Israeli's. The village where she lives is constantly raided at night. Soldiers enter their homes, pull them out of bed, children included, arrest them. At the moment the IDF closed off the entrance to their village again forcing them to walk much longer distances to enter or leave. Another 21 year old Tamimi was shot dead recently for throwing stones. The Tamimi boy referenced earlier that was shot in the head is now missing half his skull and has still been harrassed by the IDF. Another Tamimi child was arrested and went blind in custody as he was refused the medicine for his pre existing medical condition. When she slapped the soldier he was in her yard just after they shot her cousin in the head.
If you lived under these conditions, what would you do?

Annd9

Mike Hoch wrote: »

Can someone explain why Israel would employ people to post comments on a message board in a far away officially neutral country that it has fairly basic diplomatic and economic ties to, a minimal Jewish population, no Muslim voting bloc of significance, and where Ireland- Israel relations, and foreign affairs in general, are probably at the foot of the list of concerns for even adherents to far left parties like SF and PBP?

Irish people may care about Palestine, but when it comes to the elections it is about 37 places behind affordable housing, income, car insurance, childcare, the health service and so on. If I were an Israeli and gleaned evidence that taxpayers money was being spent to sway the opinions of the 0.1 percent of the Irish population who have read this thread at the time of writing, despite the fact Israel can operate with or without the support of the Irish government, I'd be a bit miffed. Israel couldn't care less if SF came to power in Ireland, but would be aghast if Corbyn came to power in the UK. The reason being they probably have the same level of diplomacy and international trade with Ireland as they do with Rwanda.

https://twitter.com/TheMossadIL/status/1022808464706490368

Maybe you should ask them to explain it for you .

Odhinn

SnakePlissken wrote: »

I can post quotes too, this is one I'm sure you're familiar with as it was in the Vice article you posted.

Saif is wondering what would happen if his homosexuality was made public. As a gay guy in the Palestinian West Bank, such information could see him murdered. While his sexuality remains hidden from his direct family, Saif said local Palestinian Authority police are aware and keep files on him and other homosexuals, blackmailing them into working as spies and informants.

Let it go Odhinn, when Palestine holds their first gay pride, as is the norm in Tel Aviv, we can start comparing them to Israel

You don't see the hypocrisy in blackmailing gays in the territories?

Where have I stated this? Oh that's right I never did, but please continue your usual tactic of making up quotes in an attempt to win a debate, I expect nothing more.

You didn't condemn it, and seem to be avoiding doing so.

Odhinn

dotsman wrote: »

What colonialism? Do you know what colonialism is?

"settlements" in the West Bank, Golan and Arab East Jerusalem.



And yes, I do.

Both sides are at fault but the condemnation is always one sided with all the blame left at Israels door.

There are no Palestinian colonists in Tel Aviv. The blame is with the agressor and the settlements are an ongoing act of aggressive colonisation.

Odhinn

SnakePlissken wrote: »

When a child such as Ahed Tamimi, is raised by a family of child murderers and terrorists, it's hard to conceive she will grow into an activist for peace, a doubt only reinforced by her online exploits of biting, kicking, punching, and spitting at the IDF who have shown remarkable restraint when dealing with her.

With Israel responsible for so much legitimate injustice, that some wish to prop this little gob****e up as a poster girl for peace is baffling.

Yep, no judgement there. They are resisting occupation and have been denied access to legal peaceful means, therefore their struggle is entirely justified.

RobbieTheRobber

Annd9 wrote: »

https://twitter.com/TheMossadIL/status/1022808464706490368

Maybe you should ask them to explain it for you .

So you do know that is a parody account right?
You know its not like the real mossad yeah?

SnakePlissken

Odhinn wrote: »

You didn't condemn it, and seem to be avoiding doing so.

I quite explicitly stated that I do not support in any way the blackmailing both sides of the conflict are guilty of.

Again, one who might claim Palestine is as accepting of homosexuality as Israel is quite simply a buffoon.

Odhinn

SnakePlissken wrote: »

I quite explicitly stated that I do not support in any way the blackmailing both sides of the conflict are guilty of.

Again, one who might claim Palestine is as accepting of homosexuality as Israel is quite simply a buffoon.

I'm sure they are. I never made such a claim. I just pointed out the cynical hypocrisy of the Israels actions.

SnakePlissken

SnakePlissken wrote: »

When a child such as Ahed Tamimi, is raised by a family of child murderers and terrorists, it's hard to conceive she will grow into an activist for peace.

Odhinn wrote: »

They are resisting occupation and have been denied access to legal peaceful means, therefore their struggle is entirely justified.

And the mask has slipped. You do understand you've just praised Ahlam Tamimi (this gombeen's aunt) for her involvement in the murder of seven children and a pregnant woman all for their crime of being Jewish, absolutely reprehensible but I expect no more "from those of your ilk" to quote another poster's favorite phrase.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sbarro_restaurant_suicide_bombing

This is a direct quote from Ahlam Tamimi on the murder of those children;

I admit that I was a bit disappointed, because I had hoped for a larger toll. Yet when they said "three dead," I said: 'Allah be praised'...Two minutes later, they said on the radio that the number had increased to five. I wanted to hide my smile, but I just couldn't. Allah be praised, it was great. As the number of dead kept increasing, the passengers were applauding.