Would you stand by him?

freshpopcorn

JMNolan wrote: »

If the man denied guilt then why wouldn't your stand by him?

Well one reason might you simply don't believe him.
Another might be you'd be one of those people who's believe no womam would never put themselves through a trial.

Whiplashy

It depends on the man in question, and the situation. I’m not blindly going to believe him just because I know him. I’m also well aware that although rare, there are instances where women lie. I hope I’d be able to weigh up the facts and make an informed decision on whether I was willing to stand by him or not. If he actually admitted it, not a hope I’d stand by him.

GarIT

freshpopcorn wrote: »

I ask this because I have heard some people say no woman would put themselves through a trial if it didn't happen.

I'd say half the rape cases I've heard of didn't happen but I can only think of 3 of each right now.

Mattress girl was a famous one, and then there was an english women who accused 21 men of rape all on separate occasions, each one had their personal and work lives destroyed, before she was eventually sentenced to 4 years for the false allegations.

I've had an ex say something on the lines of "if I don't get what I want I'll say you raped me" in the middle of an argument.

My granddad was on the jury for a false allegation within the last year. I never heard if she got done for it but she had sent several texts asking for sex and called him 150 times during the day before the alleged incident happened, after she contacted the gardaí she was told to go to the hospital for an examination for evidence but she decided to have sex with another randomer and then shower before going in for the examination. Her housemates when questioned said that she was desperate to have sex with the guy and she was just angry and accused him afterwards because he left immediately after. The guys life was ruined, lost his job, lost most of his friends that probably won't even believe him even when he was found not guilty, some of his family members has disowned him, it's awful what damage can be done on a whim. I think it's disgraceful that so much damage can be done to someone before a case is heard. We need protections making it illegal to fire someone over an accusation before a case is heard. It's a disgrace that the rugby players were kicked off the team too.

mariaalice

People can convince themselves of anything ignore all the evidence.

There was a case a few weeks ago when a defendant was found guilty of raping a woman he met on a dating ap, but his fiance was standing by him, so he was cheating on his fiance and raped the woman he met, got a custodial sentence and will be on the sex offender register and she was still going to stand by him.

freshpopcorn

mariaalice wrote: »

People can convince themselves of anything ignore all the evidence.

There was a case a few weeks ago when a defendant was found guilty of raping a woman he met on a dating ap, but his fiance was standing by him, so he was cheating on his fiance and raped the woman he met, got a custodial sentence and will be on the sex offender register and she was still going to stand by him.

Some people stick by there loved one through anything.

Westernyelp

freshpopcorn wrote:

Some people stick by there loved one through anything.

That's madness though, in fairness

Naydy

I have an immediate family member who was convicted of rape. Took his victim (another family member) 6 years of being dragged through courts and humiliating interviews to get that far. He has always denied it publically (despite making crude jokes to friends about "getting what he wanted that night") and is out now after a few years inside, straight back to his old life more or less. His victim is still destroyed over it. Blatently obvious he did it. I wouldnt spit on him if he was on fire. I have nothing more to do with him and have ignored him in the steet. A surprising amount have stood by him, it split the family in two.

HappyAsLarE

Thread title should be would you stand by him/her.

IvyTheTerrific

There is an RTE radio documentary is all about a family with someone who was convicted of rape and how they reacted to it differently. Very interesting. I can't post links but google RTE Doc on one Suburban Hideaway.

JayRoc

Naydy wrote: »

I have an immediate family member who was convicted of rape. Took his victim (another family member) 6 years of being dragged through courts and humiliating interviews to get that far.

I have a close friend who was accused last year of a rape he didn't commit. He was exonerated quickly enough but obviously it was an awful time.

Prior to that I honestly had a hard time believing that any woman could actually falsely accuse an innocent man of such a terrible thing and it has probably made me a little more cynical about the issue.

But in my opinion the worst thing this woman did was make it harder for genuine victims like your relative above to be believed, resulting in the additional trauma of a long-drawn out investigation.

Anyone found guilty of false allegations like that should face similar sentences to those found guilty of rape

GreeBo

JayRoc wrote: »

I have a close friend who was accused last year of a rape he didn't commit. He was exonerated quickly enough but obviously it was an awful time.

Prior to that I honestly had a hard time believing that any woman could actually falsely accuse an innocent man of such a terrible thing and it has probably made me a little more cynical about the issue.

But in my opinion the worst thing this woman did was make it harder for genuine victims like your relative above to be believed, resulting in the additional trauma of a long-drawn out investigation.

Anyone found guilty of false allegations like that should face similar sentences to those found guilty of rape

How do you know it was a false accusation?

OldMrBrennan83

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Naydy

JayRoc wrote: »

I have a close friend who was accused last year of a rape he didn't commit. He was exonerated quickly enough but obviously it was an awful time.

Prior to that I honestly had a hard time believing that any woman could actually falsely accuse an innocent man of such a terrible thing and it has probably made me a little more cynical about the issue.

But in my opinion the worst thing this woman did was make it harder for genuine victims like your relative above to be believed, resulting in the additional trauma of a long-drawn out investigation.

Anyone found guilty of false allegations like that should face similar sentences to those found guilty of rape

It absolutely ruined her life. The amount of hoops someone has to go through to get a conviction for rape in this country would make me sorely question why anyone would put themselves through it. Even on the rare occasion there is a conviction,you will still have people casting aspersions on the victim's character. I'm sure there are some cases where it happens but i would think it would be rare. If someone is found guilty beyond reasonable doubt of false allegations? Yep, throw the book at them. If there is simply lack of evidence? No i don't agree and think it would be a frightening precedent to set.

soups05

i am amazed at the amount of human lie detectors on this site. so many say they would know if someone was lying to them. sorry but i call bs on that. if it was so easy to tell when someone is lying the world would be a much better place.

I have been with my wife since 1989 and can sometimes tell what she is thinking, but if she lied to me i would believe her. why would i doubt her? in these cases i believe you would believe the accused just cos you know him, your own bias would ensure that.

as to the op, it would depend on the circumstances as to if i would stand by him.

JayRoc

GreeBo wrote: »

How do you know it was a false accusation?

Fair question.

My own judgement of the friend in question aside (I was already sure he was innocent) it was quickly established by physical evidence that her entire accusation was false.

The DPP however decided against prosecuting her for her false accusation and anecdotally this seems to be standard. I am a loss as to why.

wakka12

Id find it hard not to stand by a family member or close friend even if they committed a crime. Even if they were guilty..even if they admitted, Id find it so hard to associate a person I love, trust and admire with a horrible crime like that unless I had actually seen it occurring

Sleeper12

JayRoc wrote:

The DPP however decided against prosecuting her for her false accusation and anecdotally this seems to be standard. I am a loss as to why.

I can't claim to hear everything but I have honestly never ever heard of prosecuting a woman for making false claims like that. They should become mud sticks. There will always be someone who thinks he did it when it never happened at all

downwithpeace

freshpopcorn wrote: »

If a man in your life was accused of rape and it ended up in court. Be it a partner/friend/brother/son/friend/etc. Would you stand by him?
I ask this because I have heard some people say no woman would put themselves through a trial if it didn't happen.
Well obviously it would depend on the person but if they told me they didn't do it. I'd believe them. If there was a lot of evidence I might change my mind and some people I might be more dodge of than others.
I know this question can be turned the other way also.

If the person told me they didn't do it and they were a person I trust then I would take their word but suspect I would always have some doubt.

I would then stand by the person and if the Garda or courts asked me for my opinion or relationship/history about the person I would freely give all information I could.

If the person was charged and convicted and the evidence convinced me then I would hold my hands up and say I was incorrect and break all ties. If the person wasn't convicted then I would probably keep up the connection but doubt might still be there.

Hector Bellend

freshpopcorn wrote: »

If a man in your life was accused of rape and it ended up in court. Be it a partner/friend/brother/son/friend/etc. Would you stand by him?
I ask this because I have heard some people say no woman would put themselves through a trial if it didn't happen.
Well obviously it would depend on the person but if they told me they didn't do it. I'd believe them. If there was a lot of evidence I might change my mind and some people I might be more dodge of than others.
I know this question can be turned the other way also.

Anyone who believes this has issues.

Keyman123

My first first reaction is have nothing do do with them, cut them out completely but all cases are different as are all relationships. Are all cases of rape on the same level? Could I disown a son who denies it? Difficult one. Nobody knows what they would do until they are in that situation.

Hector Bellend

whatever happened to innocent until proven guilty

Keyman123

My apologies. I’ve jumped the gun. It would be my position on a guilty verdict.

Donald Trump

JayRoc wrote: »

I have a close friend who was accused last year of a rape he didn't commit. He was exonerated quickly enough but obviously it was an awful time.

Prior to that I honestly had a hard time believing that any woman could actually falsely accuse an innocent man of such a terrible thing and it has probably made me a little more cynical about the issue.

But in my opinion the worst thing this woman did was make it harder for genuine victims like your relative above to be believed, resulting in the additional trauma of a long-drawn out investigation.

Anyone found guilty of false allegations like that should face similar sentences to those found guilty of rape

There are two broad categories of "false accusation"



One is "what are you on about, I never touched her"
Other is "yeah we had sex but she consented"


There will always be a bit of doubt there in the second one. Especially if drink is involved.



I don't even mean doubt as to whether something legally wrong was done.

Mousewar

With regards my children and my wife I'd stand by them regardless of anything they'd done. That's as long as we agree on what 'stand by' means. That is, I would continue to love and support them in the hope that they would repent of their crimes and seek to repair the damage they had done to their victims and to themselves. It would not include helping them cover up their crimes or evading the law.
To that end, there is no crime they could commit that would cause me to forsake them.

Katgurl

That is a tough question and would depend entirely on the individuals involved.

Focusing on men; if my brother or my boyfriend were accused and outright denied it to me then yes I would believe them. They are very respectful to women and see them as equals, no question. My father on the other hand is extremel mysoginistic and I would weigh it all up. Similar with a few friends. The question mark would be that they assumed there was consent.

Regarding female claims I would consider what I knew about the person in question and listen to what they had to say. I can think of two very dramatic headmelters who have already bandied stupid claims about while looking for attention or getting revenge on someone. I'm not saying these women couldn't be raped but in these two particular situations it was driven by a transparent desire to cause trouble. Thankfully nobody paid them a blind bit of attention.

PlaneSpeeking

My best friend of 20 years is a man. I'm a woman.

Under no circumstances - bar his explicit admission of guilt that he forced an unwilling woman into sex - would I believe him.

No way. It's not in him. He says he didn't do it - he did not do it.

Having said that, if he did confess ? Yes I would 100% stand by him at trial, personally, character witness - whatever was needed.

Criticise away but that's my position.

PlaneSpeeking

Katgurl wrote: »

That is a tough question and would depend entirely on the individuals involved.

Focusing on men; if my brother or my boyfriend were accused and outright denied it to me then yes I would believe them. They are very respectful to women and see them as equals, no question. My father on the other hand is extremel mysoginistic and I would weigh it all up. Similar with a few friends. The question mark would be that they assumed there was consent.

Regarding female claims I would consider what I knew about the person in question and listen to what they had to say. I can think of two very dramatic headmelters who have already bandied stupid claims about while looking for attention or getting revenge on someone. I'm not saying these women couldn't be raped but in these two particular situations it was driven by a transparent desire to cause trouble. Thankfully nobody paid them a blind bit of attention.

Once when temping there was a young receptionist - one Saturday we were on overtime and she was nowhere to be seen.

Panicked phone calls, people out looking and we eventually persuaded the bar manager of the local pub to look at the CCTV, we showed her a picture.

She noted that the kid in question was with a man that no one recognised. We're about to call the police and in she walks. Hugs, etc etc.

Her first question was "is **** in ?" - the big boss. When told no, her reply was "shame, I had a whole story about being raped to cover. Keep that for next time".

This was a real man, a person with a family and he will never know how close he came to being falsely accused. Because an admittedly scary boss had take a weekend off.

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PlaneSpeeking

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Just a Devil's Advocate comment here - I worked for some time in the Child Support Agency. Horrifically there have been parents who make up sexual abuse of their children to win custody or punish an absent parent.

It is thankfully rare but it does happen.

volchitsa

PlaneSpeeking wrote: »

Once when temping there was a young receptionist - one Saturday we were on overtime and she was nowhere to be seen.

Panicked phone calls, people out looking and we eventually persuaded the bar manager of the local pub to look at the CCTV, we showed her a picture.

She noted that the kid in question was with a man that no one recognised. We're about to call the police and in she walks. Hugs, etc etc.

Her first question was "is **** in ?" - the big boss. When told no, her reply was "shame, I had a whole story about being raped to cover. Keep that for next time".

This was a real man, a person with a family and he will never know how close he came to being falsely accused. Because an admittedly scary boss had take a weekend off.

TBF that sounds very hard to believe. People panicked in an office because a receptionist had cleared off instead of doing overtime? That must be a very strange atmosphere to work in. I wonder how old the receptionists were. And you talk about showing a photo of a kid to a barman - do you mean the receptionist? Wasn't she at least 18, if she was doing overtime?

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amdublin

That fella - actor from Galway- found guilty of rape recently. He told his wife the night before the trial about the charges. That was nice of him eh? Don't know if she stood by him.

Graham O'Dwyer. I believe his wife left him the day he was charged with the murder of Elaine O'Hara.

Marilyn Rynn/David Lawlor raped and killed her in 1995. His wife stuck around and I believe had another baby with him. The mind boggles.

PlaneSpeeking

volchitsa wrote: »

TBF that sounds very hard to believe. People panicked in an office because a receptionist had cleared off instead of doing overtime? That must be a very strange atmosphere to work in. I wonder how old the receptionists were. And you talk about showing a photo of a kid to a barman - do you mean the receptionist? Wasn't she at least 18, if she was doing overtime?

Why automatically go with someone is lying ?

We were out the night before, she was flitting around different people and we worried. She was over 18 but not by much.

It's called compassion.

PlaneSpeeking

amdublin wrote: »

That fella - actor from Galway- found guilty of rape recently. He told his wife the night before the trial about the charges. That was nice of him eh? Don't know if she stood by him.

Graham O'Dwyer. I believe his wife left him the day he was charged with the murder of Elaine O'Hara.

Marilyn Rynn/David Lawlor raped and killed her in 1995. His wife stuck around and I believe had another baby with him. The mind boggles.

I genuinely have problems with that case. Any case convicted largely on circumstancial evidence and what my nan would say "well if he's into that he's capable of anything".

PlaneSpeeking

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Fair point, thank you.

amdublin

PlaneSpeeking wrote: »

Why automatically go with someone is lying ?

We were out the night before, she was flitting around different people and we worried. She was over 18 but not by much.

It's called compassion.

That's an ironic question considering the big old lie the receptionist was going to come out with.

Seriously it sounded like a ridiculously convuluted story from the get go

volchitsa

PlaneSpeeking wrote: »

Why automatically go with someone is lying ?

We were out the night before, she was flitting around different people and we worried. She was over 18 but not by much.

It's called compassion.

Ok fair enough, but it sounded like she went missing from work. Like at lunchtime or something. If you actually mean she didn't turn up the next day then fair enough, but that's not how I read it. But things do get misunderstood on the Internet, I accept that.

amdublin

PlaneSpeeking wrote: »

I genuinely have problems with that case. Any case convicted largely on circumstancial evidence and what my nan would say "well if he's into that he's capable of anything".

I have no problems with it. Their emails, their text messages, the cctv of him in her apartment. What he said he would do to her that day (I'll be stabbing you with a knife). Surprise surprise she's dead and gone after interacting with him.

PlaneSpeeking

amdublin wrote: »

That's an ironic question considering the big old lie the receptionist was going to come out with.

Seriously it sounded like a ridiculously convuluted story from the get go

Hang on - you accused me of lying. She was and I have no doubt still is - a complete liar.

But YOU accused ME of telling a tall tale. So as usual with most people, the use of "ironic" is completely wrong.

PlaneSpeeking

amdublin wrote: »

I have no problems with it. Their emails, their text messages, the cctv of him in her apartment. What he said he would do to her that day (I'll be stabbing you with a knife). Surprise surprise she's dead and gone after interacting with him.

And I guarantee if someone texted me that they were going to stab me I'd not be saying "thank you Sir, see you at 7".

Katgurl

PlaneSpeeking wrote: »

Her first question was "is **** in ?" - the big boss. When told no, her reply was "shame, I had a whole story about being raped to cover. Keep that for next time".

This was a real man, a person with a family and he will never know how close he came to being falsely accused. Because an admittedly scary boss had take a weekend off.

That is utterly shocking but I'm confused as to why you replied to me? I did not mean with some men I would assume they were guilty I mean I would think it was possible in albeit strange circumstances (drugs or mistaken consent). Other men - absolutely not unless they told me otherwise.

If you were agreeing that some women (a very small minority) are dangerous then yes they are.

Years ago a gang of us were in oz and became friendly with another crowd of Irish, mainly guys. One of the guys had a very public crush on one if our girls but got nowhere. He was leaving soon and gave her his number before he left.

One night sometime later it ended up me and her out drinking when we joined up with one of their crew we had met a few times. My friend was getting increasingly locked and looking for attention and flirting up a storm with him. I was in bad form as having problems with my boyfriend and headed off fairly early. She was sitting on his lap wearing the face off him when I left. The following morning she mailed me in work saying they stayed out drinking for hours, she invited him back to hers, remembers falling into bed together and had a blackout. She woke up naked and when he woke up he tried to have sex with her, she felt horrendous and pushed him away. She was filled with regret and The Fear. I wasn't massively sympathetic as she was doing my nut in in general with her constsnt drama so I said something along the lines of "who knows? Probably? Ask him if you're that worried and if you need a MAP."

The following night we are out, he appears with my boyfriend obviously keen to see her again and she takes him aside and asks. I see him laugh and shake his head. She fell asleep on the job it seems. He is very keen on her, she spends the next few weeks flirting with him and enjoying the attention but red-carding him. He loses interest and the whole thing fizzles out.

When we arrive home she looks up the original guy who gave her his number and they start dating. His mate (who she hooked up with) is ribbing him from Australia when he hears they're an item and next thing her boyfriend says to her "I believe you sh@gged Dave, thanks for telling me." and he's quite pissed off that she let him find out from yer man and they argue.

Next thing the rape claims start flooding out.

amdublin

PlaneSpeeking wrote: »

And I guarantee if someone texted me that they were going to stab me I'd not be saying "thank you Sir, see you at 7".

I hear you. I guess she was fine with being "cut" and a bit of pain. But not being killed dead.

Poor girl.

Sorry I think he did it. And even before he did it treated her awfully, I think she was a vulnerable lady

mariaalice

PlaneSpeeking wrote: »

Just a Devil's Advocate comment here - I worked for some time in the Child Support Agency. Horrifically there have been parents who make up sexual abuse of their children to win custody or punish an absent parent.

It is thankfully rare but it does happen.

Peopel are mixing up two different issue, standing by someone who is convicted of the offense is not the same as waiting to see if they are convicted.

The is something peculiar about a new family or even the original family standing by a convicted pedophile, hopefully, the social services are aware that the new family is living with a convicted pedophile as the person will be on the sex offenders register.

PlaneSpeeking

amdublin wrote: »

I hear you. I guess she was fine with being "cut" and a bit of pain. But not being killed dead.

Poor girl.

Sorry I think he did it. And even before he did it treated her awfully, I think she was a vulnerable lady

You're right on a lot of points. Where were her family and friends to protect her ? And he is definitely a lowlife wanting to hurt someone, not the point of S&M - pain the other person can take yeah, mindless violence no.

But I really have a stumbling block where there's no physical evidence, like the 40 year old groping claims - Rolf Harris etc. Too easy to make it up. We could all be "guilty".

PlaneSpeeking

mariaalice wrote: »

Peopel are mixing up two different issue, standing by someone who is convicted of the offense is not the same as waiting to see if they are convicted.

The is something peculiar about a new family or even the original family standing by a convicted pedophile, hopefully, the social services are aware that the new family is living with a convicted pedophile as the person will be on the sex offenders register.

I would stand by my best friend if convicted. No question.

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PlaneSpeeking

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Because there is no way he would do that.

volchitsa

PlaneSpeeking wrote: »

Because there is no way he would do that.

Lots of people think that about people they know, and the facts show that they are wrong.

I think you are confusing the person with the situation you are being asked about - I am 100% certain my husband would never abuse our children and therefore I have not the slightest worry about him looking after them. But if I found out that my husband (generic) had abused my children, would I stand by him because he was my husband - NO. I can't imagine doing that.

I really don't think that casts any aspersions on my actual husband though. Even if I accept (hypothetically) that there was evidence that he was guilty. I think I'd leave him. I still don't think that could ever happen though.

PlaneSpeeking

volchitsa wrote: »

Lots of people think that about people they know, and the facts show that they are wrong.

I think you are confusing the person with the situation you are being asked about - I am 100% certain my husband would never abuse our children and therefore I have not the slightest worry about him looking after them. But if I found out that my husband (generic) had abused my children, would I stand by him because he is my husband - NO.

I don't think that casts any aspersions on my actual husband though.

I can only speak about the person in my post, who is real. He has my complete loyalty till my dying day and vice versa.

If we are talking hypotheticals - were I married and my "husband" abused my "children" - and it was proved - I'd be out of the door.