Use of the word mongo or versions of it.

G_R

Owryan wrote: »

I reported it's use yesterday, no action. Came here and started a thread and posted examples of it being used. The last time I checked the post in question was still there with the word in it.

I appreciate it's not the biggest problem with boards but if I used n*****r to belittle someone I would expect it to be responded to. And I thank you for at least responding to my post.

Fwiw, from searching for the word it appears it's only a few posters who repeatedly use it so it might be something easily stamped out.

Regards.

Hi There,

R&R Mod here.

So, I've just looked back over the reported posts and hands up, completely missed the notification about your reported post 4 days ago.

Your second reported post was 29 mins ago. 27 mins ago, I posted about it in out R&R Mod Forum to have a chat about it, so please don't think it's being ignored.

The reason we are having a chat about it is that this has come up before in feedback on R&R and there was mixed opinions as to whether of not it should be allowed or banned, bareing in mind half of our posts on the forum are creative insults. If an admin/cmod wants to chime in they're more than welcome to do so.

I'll be happy to drop you a PM afterwards.

aaakev

DoozerT6 wrote: »

Could the filter be 'switched off' just for that particular forum, where it's much more likely to be used in the technical context you mentioned?

Are you really so offended by a word that you want it banned?? Get a grip

dudara

Magnolia Uninterested Self-determination wrote: »

There's a town in England called Scunthorpe you **** <-- I typed cúnt there, without the accent obvs, and I wasn't calling you a cúnt, just in case you think that.

Seems it's possible to just star out the relevent word, and leave words containing the string of letters intact.

Didn’t realise that the filter only applied to whole words, not parts of words. You learn something every day.

Testing it using f*ck.

If I type f*ckwit (my favoyrite term for passengers in airports at this time of year), I get ****wit. If I type twof*ckwits I get two****wits.

Same logic seems to apply for c*nt except perhaps when part of a proper noun (e.g. your example of Scunthorpe)

Must check this logic with HQ

Owryan

G_R wrote: »

Hi There,

R&R Mod here.

So, I've just looked back over the reported posts and hands up, completely missed the notification about your reported post 4 days ago.

Your second reported post was 29 mins ago. 27 mins ago, I posted about it in out R&R Mod Forum to have a chat about it, so please don't think it's being ignored.

The reason we are having a chat about it is that this has come up before in feedback on R&R and there was mixed opinions as to whether of not it should be allowed or banned, bareing in mind half of our posts on the forum are creative insults. If an admin/cmod wants to chime in they're more than welcome to do so.

I'll be happy to drop you a PM afterwards.

I have no issue with insults being thrown about, sure a proper rant isn't one without a good insult or ten.

As an insult mong/mongo is most closely associated with people with downs/intellectual disabilities. They did not choose their disability but to use derogatory terms associated with them is in a way continuing to demean them as people. If retarded can become unacceptable then why not other words.

I'm not a snowflake or easily offended and tbh at the end of the day it reflects more on the people who continue to use those words. But my point remains that people are using these words to describe others as stupid/thick/idiots when they could just as easily use those words rather than one that was used to describe people with disabilities.

Fwiw I also pmed a cmod about this, as advised by dudara but never received a response.

DoozerT6

aaakev wrote: »

Are you really so offended by a word that you want it banned?? Get a grip

There are certain words that are just distasteful. Imagine if you had a child with Downs and certain people used this clearly derogatory (in this context) term not only to mock your child, but anybody else they deemed as not being clever, smart or as 'intellectually advanced' as themselves. I think Owryan says it very well below:

I have no issue with insults being thrown about, sure a proper rant isn't one without a good insult or ten.

As an insult mong/mongo is most closely associated with people with downs/intellectual disabilities. They did not choose their disability but to use derogatory terms associated with them is in a way continuing to demean them as people. If retarded can become unacceptable then why not other words.

I'm not a snowflake or easily offended and tbh at the end of the day it reflects more on the people who continue to use those words. But my point remains that people are using these words to describe others as stupid/thick/idiots when they could just as easily use those words rather than one that was used to describe people with disabilities.

Hotblack Desiato

Owryan wrote: »

But my point remains that people are using these words to describe others as stupid/thick/idiots

Once upon a time the word idiot was roughly equivalent to the word people are objecting to on this thread. Now it's regarded as a mild rebuke at worst, while other words which were freely used in the past are now regarded with horror.

Funny thing, language, especially if you just look at the words and ignore the intent behind them.

Owryan

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Once upon a time the word idiot was roughly equivalent to the word people are objecting to on this thread. Now it's regarded as a mild rebuke at worst, while other words which were freely used in the past are now regarded with horror.

Funny thing, language, especially if you just look at the words and ignore the intent behind them.

I would suggest that 'idiot' has evolved beyond it's original intent, that is, it's original linkage to people with disabilities, in contrast, imo, mong/mongo remains linked to people with disabilities (and the assumption they are slow/half witted) as seen by its usage in some of the threads here.

Hotblack Desiato

Well one word went from bad to mild, the other in the opposite direction.

Again context and intent are key.

I'm no fan of the word in question being used on boards, I regard it as crude at best, but the suggestion that it be added to the swear filter is ridiculous especially as, as other posters have pointed out, there are legitimate uses of the word such as the name of a software package.

I regard the swear filter as entirely ridiculous tbh. There's a world of difference between "ah, sure, f**k it anyway" and "go f**k yourself".

Owryan

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Well one word went from bad to mild, the other in the opposite direction.

Again context and intent are key.



I regard the swear filter as entirely ridiculous tbh. There's a world of difference between "ah, sure, f**k it anyway" and "go f**k yourself".

Exactly its the context. In the majority of cases the word is used to insinuate that an individual is slow/stupid/an idiot......like a person with a disability.

Signore Fancy Pants

Owryan wrote: »

It's a word most would associate with as a derogatory term for a person with downs syndrome or intellectual disability.

Surely it's use should be banned.

You better add "special", "fcuktard", "gimp", "daft", "blind", "handicapped", "insane", "invalid", "moron", "spastic" and "window licker" and a whole lot more to the list too.

Either get rid of all derogatory words or don't. We can't be too careful, don't want to offend anyone.

Tbh, boards is not a particularly nasty site in the realm of the internet. Word choice and context are how we communicate here. If part of that offends you, maybe you shouldnt be here.

This is a campaign to ban a word that *some* take offence to.

I'd say there are more people here who are offended by it than actually use it.

Never the less, a campaign by 50-100 people who chose...thats right...choose to be offended by a word and its use should not be prioritised over 200-300 people that want to use the word.

What about the word "moist"?. There has been a great divide over that word in the past. It has a meaning, some people don't like it...lets get rid of it. Eh no.

The removal of a word should be voted on by all who use the site. Put a sticky up for a week, two choices..."Mongo - ban it or keep it".

This lark reminds me of powerless and attention hungry politicians. Coming out with a mad idea just to be heard.

Ah jesus lads, is this what its come to? Banning words we don't like is lunacy.
If you're so put out just add the offender to your ignore list and let the rest of us read the board as it is.

cdeb

How many people would link the word "mongo" with Downs Syndrome?

I have quite genuinely never heard that connotation. I've used the word occasionally because it's a fun-sounding word.

The link with idiot, moron, etc, is entirely valid. The word, if it ever did refer to Downs Syndrome, has changed meaning over time and no longer means what some think it means.

I don't think others can impute connotations i words that aren't there. (I'd go as far as to say I find it offensive actually)

gctest50

DoozerT6 wrote: »

There are certain words that are just distasteful. Imagine if you had a child with Downs and certain people used this clearly derogatory (in this context) term not only to mock your child, but anybody else they deemed as not being clever, smart or as 'intellectually advanced' as themselves. I think Owryan says it very well below:

It was John Down that started that one in his :

Observations on an Ethnic Classification of Idiots

J. Langdon H. Down, M.D., London
London Hospital Reports, 3:259-262, 1866



The great Mongolian family has numerous representatives, and it is to this division, I wish, in this paper, to call special attention. A very large number of congenital idiots are typical Mongols. So marked is this, that when placed side by side, it is difficult to believe that the specimens compared are not children of the same parents. The number of idiots who arrange themselves around the Mongolian type is so great, and they present such a close resemblance to one another in mental power, that I shall describe an idiot member of this racial division, selected from the large number that have fallen under my observation.

The hair is not black, as in the real Mongol, but of a brownish colour, straight and scanty. The face is flat and broad, and destitute of prominence. The cheeks are roundish, and extended laterally. The eyes are obliquely placed, and the internal canthi more than normally distant from one another. The palpebral fissure is very narrow. The forehead is wrinkled transversely from the constant assistance which the levatores palpebrarum derive from the occipito-frontalis muscle in the opening of the eyes. The lips are large and thick with transverse fissures. The tongue is long, thick, and is much roughened. The nose is small. The skin has a slight dirty yellowish tinge, and is deficient in elasticity, giving the appearance of being too large for the body.

The boy's aspect is such that it is difficult to realize he is the child of Europeans, but so frequently are these characters presented, that there can be no doubt that these ethnic features are the result of degeneration.

The Mongolian type of idiocy occurs in more than ten per cent. of the cases which are presented to me. They are always congenital idiots, and never result from accidents after uterine life. They are, for the most part, instances of degeneracy arising from tuberculosis in the parents. They are cases which very much repay judicious treatment. They require highly azotised food with a considerable amount of oleaginous. They have considerable power of imitation, even bordering on being mimics. They are humorous, and a lively sense of the ridiculous often colours their mimicry. This faculty of imitation may be cultivated to a very great extent, and a practical direction given to the results obtained. They are usually able to speak; the speech is thick and indistinct, but may be improved very greatly by a well-directed scheme of tongue gymnastics. The co-ordinating faculty is abnormal, but not so defective that it cannot be greatly strengthened. By systematic training, considerable manipulative power may be obtained.

The circulation is feeble, and whatever advance is made intellectually in the summer, some amount of regression may be expected in the winter. Their mental and physical capabilities are, in fact, directly as the temperature.

Owryan

cdeb wrote: »

How many people would link the word "mongo" with Downs Syndrome?

I have quite genuinely never heard that connotation. I've used the word occasionally because it's a fun-sounding word.

The link with idiot, moron, etc, is entirely valid. The word, if it ever did refer to Downs Syndrome, has changed meaning over time and no longer means what some think it means.

I don't think others can impute connotations i words that aren't there. (I'd go as far as to say I find it offensive actually)

If you work with children with disabilities it is actually disheartening to still hear them referred to as "mong's" "retards" and "spastics".

But it appears that the word is acceptable for use so this thread may as well be closed. All I asked for was its usage to be reviewed which it has.

Thanks to everyone who contributed.

cdeb

Owryan wrote: »

If you work with children with disabilities it is actually disheartening to still hear them referred to as "mong's" "retards" and "spastics".

I can well imagine. But context is all-important. As it is with all words really.

Owryan

cdeb wrote: »

I can well imagine. But context is all-important. As it is with all words really.

In the context the word it is most commonly used here is to call people mong's ie stupid/slow, the same context it was used regarding the disabled.

cdeb

But that's imputing your own meaning again unfortunately.

I would wager that pretty much nobody using the word - myself included - is likening someone to a Downs patient.

It doesn't matter if that's what it once meant; the word has evolved and that meaning is now largely redundant - the same way as "moron", "idiot" and "imbecile" once implied certain (low) IQs, but nobody would complain about that usage nowadays.

dudara

cdeb wrote: »

How many people would link the word "mongo" with Downs Syndrome?

I have quite genuinely never heard that connotation. I've used the word occasionally because it's a fun-sounding word.

The link with idiot, moron, etc, is entirely valid. The word, if it ever did refer to Downs Syndrome, has changed meaning over time and no longer means what some think it means.

I don't think others can impute connotations i words that aren't there. (I'd go as far as to say I find it offensive actually)

Check the dictionary. One of the primary definitions is as a derogatory term for those with Down’s syndrome. Personally, If I hear the word “mong” that’s what it means to me first. It’s a word that I’d never consider using because of its associations. I’m not a prude, I swear like a sailor IRL, but I wouldn’t use that word.

I don’t personally buy the argument that it has passed into common usage yet.

cdeb

Oxford English Dictionary gives "mong" as just someone who is stupid or has learning difficulties. TheFreeDictionary.com gives "a stupid or foolish person". Both noted as British slang.

No mention of anything more specific than that. That's entirely consistent with the meaning I'd take from it.

Dictionary.com just notes it as a slang Australian word for "mongrel".

Signore Fancy Pants

dudara wrote: »

Check the dictionary. One of the primary definitions is as a derogatory term for those with Down’s syndrome. Personally, If I hear the word “mong” that’s what it means to me first. It’s a word that I’d never consider using because of its associations. I’m not a prude, I swear like a sailor IRL, but I wouldn’t use that word.

I don’t personally buy the argument that it has passed into common usage yet.

The online Collins English dictionary explains the primary definition of "Mongo" as 'A Mongolian monetary unit'.

Same with this https://www.thefreedictionary.com/mongo

Smae with this https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/mongo

Same here https://www.dictionary.com/browse/mongo

The Urban dictionary top explaination is a Lederhosen and farming reference. Second is a derogotary term.

dudara

Mong is short for Mongol, one of whose definitions is an offensive term for those with Down’s syndrome. It came about because of the likening the appearance of those with Down’s Syndrome to the natives of Mongolia.

https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/mongol

Mong itself is defined as a stupid person or someone with learning difficulties.

cdeb

Doesn't change the fact that the meaning of the word has evolved since the late 19th century, when that usage was coined. As the "mong" and "mongo" definitions above show.

Dravokivich

Rennaws wrote: »

I don’t get offended easy but I wince every time I see the word “retard” used on boards.

It’s the only place I ever see it..

I’m amazed it’s considered ok but it seems to be

You do know engines retard?

Signore Fancy Pants

dudara wrote: »

Mong is short for Mongol, one of whose definitions is an offensive term for those with Down’s syndrome. It came about because of the likening the appearance of those with Down’s Syndrome to the natives of Mongolia.

https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/mongol

Mong itself is defined as a stupid person or someone with learning difficulties.

So can we get rid of the word "special" too then?

dudara

Yes, meanings change, but I don’t believe this one has fully passed yet. I first heard the word as an insult for Down’s and I still think of it that way.

As I said earlier, I don’t believe in adding it to the swear filter for various reasons. But I would ask posters to consider the context in which they use it.

cdeb

I still think that's your own personal bias though.

A poll (if it were possible to get people to answer a question like this properly) would, I would think, reveal a heavy proportion of users who think it's just a random term of insult. The degree of insult is imbued by the meaning of the sentence; it can be a real infraction-worthy insult, or a matey/dopey term.

Appreciate you're not in favour of suppressing it alright.

dudara

Dravokivich wrote: »

You do know engines retard?

Same for potential fields. Retarded electric potentials had me sniggering quite a lot through my 4th year electromagnetic lectures.

As always, context is king

dudara

dudara wrote: »

Same for potential fields. Retarded electric potentials had me sniggering quite a lot through my 4th year electromagnetic lectures.

As always, context is king

If you were late arriving, you’d be quite tardy.

In French, one would thus declare themselves to be ‘en retard’.

30 years ago in my secondary school, attended by 750+ male pupils, mongo was used completely interchangeably with idiot, dope, muppet, spa, dipshīt and so forth, all intended to casually insult someones intellect.

Nobody was trying to associate the term with a specific condition back then and today I believe it to be no more intended to cause offense than when calling someone a moron. If people actually take offense, well, they’re morons, or mongos. Take your pick.

G_R

Owryan wrote: »

I have no issue with insults being thrown about, sure a proper rant isn't one without a good insult or ten.

As an insult mong/mongo is most closely associated with people with downs/intellectual disabilities. They did not choose their disability but to use derogatory terms associated with them is in a way continuing to demean them as people. If retarded can become unacceptable then why not other words.

I'm not a snowflake or easily offended and tbh at the end of the day it reflects more on the people who continue to use those words. But my point remains that people are using these words to describe others as stupid/thick/idiots when they could just as easily use those words rather than one that was used to describe people with disabilities.

Fwiw I also pmed a cmod about this, as advised by dudara but never received a response.

An update as promised.

The post you reported has now been edited and the offending words removed. We will now remove those words in future where we see them or where they are reported to us.

Thanks

Dial Hard

G_R wrote:

The post you reported has now been edited and the offending words removed. We will now remove those words in future where we see them or where they are reported to us.

Offensive to whom though, G.R.? There was an extensive discussion on this subject on the R&R feedback thread a while back and I'll repeat now what I said then because I feel very strongly about it: to censor words that have been used in a context that is extremely obviously not meant in any kind of offensive manner is censorship for censorship's sake.

If I post in R&R on Monday saying "I'm such a retard, I forgot it was a bank holiday and got up and went to work" are you going to edit that too???

As has been said over and over and over in both this thread and the R&R one, context is EVERYTHING. If someone uses the word mong to refer to someone with Down Syndrome then that's an obvious carding, imo. But someone saying "Some mongo drove straight through a red light in front of me earlier" then I honestly can't see how anyone could think they're saying anything other than that a gobsh*te cut them off on the road.

And where does it stop? I find the use of the word "female" instead of woman offensive, are we going to start editing out all instances of that now too if I report them?

A bit of cop on would go a long way in this regard. It's flippin' R&R we're talking about here, if people aren't actively trolling or trying to offend then I think there's precious little to be worrying about.