Solar PV Grant now Available - SEAI

Gumbo

ok..

3kw System
5kwh Battery
€8,500

Grant applied €3100.

Total cost to customer is €5400.
Finance available from next wednesday and company on the list of approved installers with SEAI.

2.4kw system available also for €7,500 before grant applied.

Gumbo

rolion wrote: »

I think the grant hugely promotes self consumption in relation to battery grant extension .. .rather than creating troubles with FIT payments between producers/exporters and the companies that are at the end of the receiving some surplus energy when they dont need it.

However,in this format it creates an advantage only for the new installs.

For the current already installed systems,as the batteryes needs 48V input AND our systems are designed and installed on "series link" to get the starting point voltage for the inverter...i don't see myself going back to all the panels and change the cabling to support a higher amperage and redesign series to parallel.

Also,some airlines don't supports the idea of having the bateries in the plane...i will not accept a battery pack installed in the house...maybe at the side, wallrack mounted... wanna sleep well !?

But,lets wait for a specialised acredited installer here and give us some FoC advices !?

TGIF

I take your point about the battery location alright.
I currently have the invertor in the crawl space of my converted attic, but I extended the smoke alarm and detection system into the crawl space to give advance notification should there be a problem, but as you say, that wont help in the case of a battery explosion!!!!

rolion

kceire wrote: »

ok..

3kw System
5kwh Battery
€8,500

Grant applied €3100.

Total cost to customer is €5400.
Finance available from next wednesday and company on the list of approved installers with SEAI.

2.4kw system available also for €7,500 before grant applied.

hahahahahahaha

3KW system to keep in float / charge a 5KWh battery !???
i know i'm not constructive here but is a fcuking joke... RoI at the next grant.
And i guess is only for new systems,isn't ?


I wanna hear quotes for fitting a battery to an existing system with the grant.

unkel

kceire wrote: »

3kw System
5kwh Battery
€8,500

Grant applied €3100.

Total cost to customer is €5400.

Including VAT I presume?

Gumbo

rolion wrote: »

hahahahahahaha

3KW system to keep in float / charge a 5KWh battery !???
i know i'm not constructive here but is a fcuking joke... RoI at the next grant.
And i guess is only for new systems,isn't ?

New installs as that's what I asked for. I'm involved in the construction of new houses, extensions and renovations, hence the reason I wanted to know the ball park for new installs.

Instead of laughing at info provided, why don't you post up a price for you to supply and fit the same system.

I passed on the info from another company as all the seemly "informed" posters here, they guys that fit them for a living, will not post a price up. So there's something to compare to now.

rolion wrote: »

I wanna hear quotes for fitting a battery to an existing system with the grant.

Go ring around then and get some quotes. I haven't got a quote for that just yet.

unkel wrote: »

Including VAT I presume?

I hope so too as he said total cost to customer.

unkel

Those figures roughly mean the customer pays for the parts at reasonable prices ex-VAT (not marked up by the installer). The grant pays for VAT and installation. Not bad at all.

10*300wp @150 = 1500
hybrid 5kW inverter = 1300
2*2.4kWh battery @1000 = 2000
materials = 400

total parts 5200 ex VAT

rolion

kceire wrote: »

New installs as that's what I asked for. I'm involved in the construction of new houses, extensions and renovations, hence the reason I wanted to know the ball park for new installs.

Instead of laughing at info provided, why don't you post up a price for you to supply and fit the same system.

I passed on the info from another company as all the seemly "informed" posters here, they guys that fit them for a living, will not post a price up. So there's something to compare to now.



Go ring around then and get some quotes. I haven't got a quote for that just yet.



I hope so too as he said total cost to customer.

Thanks.
I'm not in PV solar business at all, therefore i cannot supply prices and quotes.
Sorry to mislead you to believe or misinform you.
No intention to offend you either.
I'm an end user.Very happy DIYer too...

I "laughed" at the fact of the 3KW system and 5KW battery when i supposed /maybe to me the other way around...apart of the 3 summer months,i wish good luck to all installers and end users in keeping that battery working efficient and be ready to provide 5KWh.

Ive spent months dealing with batteries,chargers and systems...that doesn't sound right to me but i stand to be correct it. Throwing some exciting figures out there doesn't mean that in the long term,over 5 years at least you will have a battery that will not be dead or sub-optimised at half capacity or discharged ....
The supplier installs battery with a 5 years or 10 years warranty from manufacturer BUT,i repeat this many times ... the warranty does not cover damages caused by discharges due to bad design.I like to know how you prove to installer that will pass you to manufacturer to prove that battery dead due to not holding charge as the 3KW power installed PV does not have the capability to charge and KEEP in float the battery sub-system.

i'm out,enjoying my diverter that at least is not subject to Deep Discharges natural elements... be good !

listermint

I don't really think the scheme however was ever intended to assist existing installs or hardened diyers. Its sole intention is new installs and tbh possibly to meet some European carbon outputs . By pushing out grants for small local domestic schemes, every bit counts.


But certainly it can't be right everyone.... Diyers probably wouldn't benefit at all

rolion

listermint wrote: »

I don't really think the scheme however was ever intended to assist existing installs or hardened diyers. Its sole intention is new installs and tbh possibly to meet some European carbon outputs . By pushing out grants for small local domestic schemes, every bit counts.


But certainly it can't be right everyone.... Diyers probably wouldn't benefit at all

You're right.

Is a good step forward for new entrants but ignoring the needs of those that had installed systems and opened the eyes of many new users... and possible to the whole solar local industry.

Best compromise,best Trojan Horse...

i'm out,unsubscribed.

Regards

unkel

Mine is DIY, I've only added my second PV array a couple of weeks ago. So unfortunately no benefits for me here so it seems unless I go a quite cash intensive battery route

I wasn't expecting grants anywhere near as generous as these ones. Particularly on the battery bit. If I had known this, I would probably not have gone DIY, but gone for a system with a small battery that I can later expand myself (when batteries are cheaper) to maximise the subsidies. That said, I spent not an awful lot more than a grand and this would have cost me about 4 grand

unkel

rolion wrote: »

Is a good step forward for new entrants but ignoring the needs of those that had installed systems

Not quite a fair assessment. You can have a battery only install and claim your 1000 subsidy under this scheme

Gumbo

rolion wrote: »

You're right.

Is a good step forward for new entrants but ignoring the needs of those that had installed systems and opened the eyes of many new users... and possible to the whole solar local industry.

Best compromise,best Trojan Horse...

i'm out,unsubscribed.

Regards

Same happened for early adaptors of EV's. The grant for chargers on second hand cars only came about this year.

unkel

The aim here is to reduce emissions. From the governments POV, there is no great reward giving a subsidy to people already have solar or low emissions. Like current PV owners, owners of newish houses, etc.

Makes perfect sense, but obviously some people miss out...

unkel

Does the Solar PV grant qualify as a "Bonus for multiple upgrades"?

linky


If you do your third upgrade, you get and additional €300 and if you do your fourth upgrade, you get another €100 on top of that. Or do these multiple upgrades only apply to the "energy upgrades"?

I'm asking because I already got grant for efficient boiler + heating controls and solar thermal. So if I went for something like say cavity wall insulation, I'd get the €400 grant for that plus €300 bonus

niallers1

kceire wrote: »

ok..

3kw System
5kwh Battery
€8,500

Grant applied €3100.

Total cost to customer is €5400.
Finance available from next wednesday and company on the list of approved installers with SEAI.

2.4kw system available also for €7,500 before grant applied.

Hi Kceire, this is the same company on fb but using a differnt name. They were quoting last week €8000+vat for 10 *300 kw panels +5kwh battery but are now quoting for 320kw panels +5kwh battery for €8500+vat. so that will be closer to €6415 to the end customer. They're advertising that you can get back the VAT through HRI but we now know that is not possible.

Gumbo

niallers1 wrote: »

Hi Kceire, this is the same company on fb but using a differnt name. They were quoting last week €8000+vat for 10 *300 kw panels +5kwh battery but are now quoting for 320kw panels +5kwh battery for €8500+vat. so that will be closer to €6415 to the end customer. They're advertising that you can get back the VAT through HRI but we now know that is not possible.

Strange.
I do believe they have changed names to NGP. I won’t say the full name on boards for obvious reasons.

I just have his details saved as STI from previously.

Calahonda52

Moving away from the grant issue for amount, can someone help with the tech details of how this all works as described below

X panels provide juice aggregated to A volts and direct current.

This juice is rectified into AC first and then inverted into 240/AC ( assume 50 Hz)
This can then be used in-house or exported to grid.
or use a diverter to boost immersion [presume at 240/AC]

I see diverters quoted at euro 500 plus on another thread, I met a lad today who installs them for euro 200, hence my question of what is what.
Thanks as always

niallers1

Diverters cost about 315+ vat to buy. You normally see quotes for them at 450 to 500 installed +vat.

Be carefull with your diverter. Look for pure sine wave diverters or otherwise it will cause interference.

Solar iboost, Eddi diverter or solaredge have pure sinewave as far as I know. be careful with some other brands.

Gumbo

niallers1 wrote: »

Diverters cost about 315+ vat to buy. You normally see quotes for them at 450 to 500 installed +vat.

Be carefull with your diverter. Look for pure sine wave diverters or otherwise it will cause interference.

Solar iboost, Eddi diverter or solaredge have pure sinewave as far as I know. be careful with some other brands.

+1
I went with the eddi unit because of this.

VariSine™ PWM technology

https://myenergi.uk/product/eddi/

wexfordman2

niallers1 wrote: »

Hi Kceire, this is the same company on fb but using a differnt name. They were quoting last week €8000+vat for 10 *300 kw panels +5kwh battery but are now quoting for 320kw panels +5kwh battery for €8500+vat. so that will be closer to €6415 to the end customer. They're advertising that you can get back the VAT through HRI but we now know that is not possible.

Mm, I'm.getting a quote now of 9k + vat for a 4kw system with a 5kw battery, and also being told the HRI will allow the vat to be repaid.

Payment terms are also 20% on order, 50% in advance of installation, and then 30% on commissioning. Not too keen on that, hand over 7k before your system is even commissioned.

I think the price is too high also, is there a bit of price gouging going in here, should seai be keeping an eye on that ?

H.E. Pennypacker

wexfordman2 wrote: »

Mm, I'm.getting a quote now of 9k + vat for a 4kw system with a 5kw battery, and also being told the HRI will allow the vat to be repaid.

Payment terms are also 20% on order, 50% in advance of installation, and then 30% on commissioning. Not too keen on that, hand over 7k before your system is even commissioned.

I think the price is too high also, is there a bit of price gouging going in here, should seai be keeping an eye on that ?

I think that some companies are trying to avoid cashflow problems by looking for more money up front - if there is a spike in business, there'll be a spike in their stock requirements and that has to be financed. Mind you, if they fold in the six to eight weeks between taking your money and installing your panels, you've lost it all.


In terms of price increases, there's no doubt that the grant has an effect. There may be increased costs to the supplier though as SEAI will likely insist on flashing rather than tile drilling for panel mounts which adds a couple of hundred euro to drilled mount quotes. I expect my recent pre-grant quotes to be honoured but we'll see what happens.

niallers1

Installers are also adding extra onto materials.
Example I've seen so far is adding €300 onto inverter price and €100 euro onto each kwh of battery. This is addition to joe public price , installers can probably get materials cheaper again.

Likely to turn people away from getting the work done.

Gumbo

H.E. Pennypacker wrote: »

I think that some companies are trying to avoid cashflow problems by looking for more money up front - if there is a spike in business, there'll be a spike in their stock requirements and that has to be financed. Mind you, if they fold in the six to eight weeks between taking your money and installing your panels, you've lost it all.


In terms of price increases, there's no doubt that the grant has an effect. There may be increased costs to the supplier though as SEAI will likely insist on flashing rather than tile drilling for panel mounts which adds a couple of hundred euro to drilled mount quotes. I expect my recent pre-grant quotes to be honoured but we'll see what happens.

Mine were placed directly to the roof rafters. They put the brackets on and then done the panels.

Any company drilling directly to the tiles should be reported to your local building control office.

mrcheez

Curious, how "intrusive" is the build for this?

They put panels on your roof (fine) but then what needs to be done inside the house after? Walls opened?

I've had a lot of work done on the house only a year or so ago and would rather not have to go through all that again, but if it's something as equivalently small as installing a satellite dish I might go for it.

wexfordman2

H.E. Pennypacker wrote: »

I think that some companies are trying to avoid cashflow problems by looking for more money up front - if there is a spike in business, there'll be a spike in their stock requirements and that has to be financed. Mind you, if they fold in the six to eight weeks between taking your money and installing your panels, you've lost it all.


In terms of price increases, there's no doubt that the grant has an effect. There may be increased costs to the supplier though as SEAI will likely insist on flashing rather than tile drilling for panel mounts which adds a couple of hundred euro to drilled mount quotes. I expect my recent pre-grant quotes to be honoured but we'll see what happens.

Thanks,

Any.chance.you could post up.details.of.your system and the quote you got ?

Anyone think ot would be worth a separate thread outlining solar PV.quotes and prices they have received ?

gunnerfitzy

wexfordman2 wrote: »

Thanks,

Any.chance.you could post up.details.of.your system and the quote you got ?

Anyone think ot would be worth a separate thread outlining solar PV.quotes and prices they have received ?

I would certainly be in favour of a thread discussing quotes. Of course the boards.ie requirement of not naming the company in post would need to be respected however details such as this could be given by PM if wished.

I’m sure there are many respectable installers out there who will not hike up their prices more than is justifiable due to the grant however I also know the opposite is true.

A thread discussing the quotes may help keep some installers honest or at least help keep joe public informed.

H.E. Pennypacker

Some companies that I've contacted say they'll drill the tiles and its extra for flashing (and why would I want it?).

In terms of quotes - retrofit, newish tiled bungalow roof:

Company 1 (not SEAI listed, including diverter & vat)

7 x 270w : €3,900
6 x 300w : €4,100

2.5 kWh battery €6k extra

There's an additional charge for flashing instead of drilling.

This company say that they'll be listed very soon and are taking deposits for work on that basis.

Company 2 (SEAI listed):

7 x 300w : €4,500
battery approx €2k extra
No info on flashing/drilling

Company 3 (SEAI listed)

8 x 275w : €4.5k
300w panels €35 extra per panel
€450 additional for diverter
Only flashing, no drilling

Company 4 (not SEAI listed)

7 x 290w: approx €3.5k - €5k

drilling is the default approach. They are offering a FIT.

Balanadan

As someone who loves solar PV, this is a complete waste of taxpayers' money.

Any installer that drills through tiles or slates hasn't a clue.

niallers1

3kw solar & 5kwh battery
300watt panels
8000 + Vat.
Not on seai list yet but expect to be in next couple of weeks.

Same company doing 4.8kw w/ 5kwh battery for 9500+ vat.
__________________________
Another company
2.3 kw PV No battery
€3957 + Vat
On seai list

If you want iboost diverter that's 420 inclusive of vat

____________________________________

Well known electricity supplier charging €4000 inclusive of vat for 1.8kw system
They sub out work to person on seai list
________________________________

listermint

Tbh the Seai should be keeping a lid on the pricing.

These lads will now be benefiting from increased customers and I justifying a bump in price to account for delays in payments then you shouldn't get listed on the Seai scheme. Simple as that

unkel

H.E. Pennypacker wrote: »

Some companies that I've contacted say they'll drill the tiles and its extra for flashing (and why would I want it?)

You misunderstood

The process on the standard pantile used on the roof of most Irish houses is that the tile is pushed up, then a pantile hook



is attached to the rafters. Depending on the circumstance, the pantile might or might not have to be taken out to cut a little bit of the underside with a grinder so that it fits back neatly in its place over the newly installed pantile hook. Aluminium rails are attached to the hooks and then the panels are attached to the rails

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cwKG7Yrj3ug

It is more difficult with slate tiles and they may require flashing and or cutting

Water John

I think the second payment mentioned above should be very near installation as possible. Second payment when materials arrive on site would be correct.
Its nobody's job to finance a third party's business.
See the pharmacy group going into examinership because their main supplier reduced credit terms from 120 days to 90 days, WTF. That's no business model.

I know foreign suppliers of materials, eg Chinese, will look for payment up front before shipping materials but that is not for the final customer to finance.

Thanks to everyone for prices here.

Balanadan

Water John wrote: »

I think the second payment mentioned above should be very near installation as possible. Second payment when materials arrive on site would be correct.
Its nobody's job to finance a third party's business.
See the pharmacy group going into examinership because their main supplier reduced credit terms from 120 days to 90 days, WTF. That's no business model.

I know foreign suppliers of materials, eg Chinese, will look for payment up front before shipping materials but that is not for the final customer to finance.

Thanks to everyone for prices here.

Most installers do not buy their materials direct from China.

Gumbo

mrcheez wrote: »

Curious, how "intrusive" is the build for this?

They put panels on your roof (fine) but then what needs to be done inside the house after? Walls opened?

I've had a lot of work done on the house only a year or so ago and would rather not have to go through all that again, but if it's something as equivalently small as installing a satellite dish I might go for it.

I done mine while I was renovating and converting from hip roof to full gable roof so it made sense to do it at that time.

Once they are connected to the roof, cable has to be ran to where the invertor is (usually in attic space). But from there a cable needs to be ran to your consumer unit. That’s the biggest problem with retrofits. But if your lucky it could be done externally. I done all mine internally as I stripped back to walls and reinsurance’s from the ground up.

Gumbo

H.E. Pennypacker wrote: »

Some companies that I've contacted say they'll drill the tiles and its extra for flashing (and why would I want it?).

In terms of quotes - retrofit, newish tiled bungalow roof:

Company 1 (not SEAI listed, including diverter & vat)

7 x 270w : €3,900
6 x 300w : €4,100

2.5 kWh battery €6k extra

There's an additional charge for flashing instead of drilling.

This company say that they'll be listed very soon and are taking deposits for work on that basis.

Company 2 (SEAI listed):

7 x 300w : €4,500
battery approx €2k extra
No info on flashing/drilling

Company 3 (SEAI listed)

8 x 275w : €4.5k
300w panels €35 extra per panel
€450 additional for diverter
Only flashing, no drilling

Company 4 (not SEAI listed)

7 x 290w: approx €3.5k - €5k

drilling is the default approach. They are offering a FIT.

Where are you based?
How can you be offered a FIT when ESB don’t allow it anymore?

mrcheez

kceire wrote: »

I done mine while I was renovating and converting from hip roof to full gable roof so it made sense to do it at that time.

Once they are connected to the roof, cable has to be ran to where the invertor is (usually in attic space). But from there a cable needs to be ran to your consumer unit. That’s the biggest problem with retrofits. But if your lucky it could be done externally. I done all mine internally as I stripped back to walls and reinsurance’s from the ground up.

Consumer unit? Is that the PCB / fuse box etc?

listermint

mrcheez wrote: »

Consumer unit? Is that the PCB / fuse box etc?

It's not a PCB ever.

It's commonly called the fuse board.

But known as the consumer unit

mrcheez

So..eh...the answer is yes?

ted1

niallers1 wrote: »

@Iamtony

i use about 3000kwh per year. I reduced to 3000 kwh by changing all my lights to LCD. Also have LCD TV and "A" rated appliances.

if you have children, teach them to turn off the lights when they leave a room and do not leave appliances on standby, switch off at plug or if there is no switch plug the appliance out. Standby can use uo to 25% of the fully on electricity.

would be interested to know if you've done any of this already?

niallers1 wrote: »

@Iamtony

i use about 3000kwh per year. I reduced to 3000 kwh by changing all my lights to LCD. Also have LCD TV and "A" rated appliances.

if you have children, teach them to turn off the lights when they leave a room and do not leave appliances on standby, switch off at plug or if there is no switch plug the appliance out. Standby can use uo to 25% of the fully on electricity.

would be interested to know if you've done any of this already?

What devicesused 25% offull power in standby ?
LEDs use so little power it’s not worth telling people to turn them off. Changing out my 400W GU10s in the kitchen to 40W saves me slot of hardship. The kids could leave them in for aslong as they like

Gumbo

mrcheez wrote: »

Consumer unit? Is that the PCB / fuse box etc?

Yeah the fuse box in your hall or similar location.
Basically it has to be connected to a new 40A RCBO or similar.

mrcheez

kceire wrote: »

Yeah the fuse box in your hall or similar location.
Basically it has to be connected to a new 40A RCBO or similar.

Not too bad then.

The fuse box is at the front-door, so if it's just a matter of drilling a hole through the wall and job done I might be up for this.

Pretty much exactly like what I had to get done for UPC

H.E. Pennypacker

unkel wrote: »

You misunderstood

The process on the standard pantile used on the roof of most Irish houses is that the tile is pushed up, then a pantile hook


It is more difficult with slate tiles and they may require flashing and or cutting

I'm not mistaken. There are companies out there drilling tiles. I have emails from two companies saying that they do both and that there is an additional charge for flashing/hooks.


I can post a link to a website which clearly shows drilled tiles in their work gallery although I suspect that its against forum rules to do so

H.E. Pennypacker

kceire wrote: »

Where are you based?
How can you be offered a FIT when ESB don’t allow it anymore?

I'm based in Ireland (south). The offering is 6 cent per kWh paid. Quote from their email:


"We have secured a feed in tariff with a highly competitive energy company. If you have a building where you will not take full advantage of the solar that is generated. If you sign up with us we can get you 6c per kWh excess so that even when you are not using the power, you are knocking money off your bills."


This may or may not be a separate offering to a previous poster on this forum who was talking about something similar (jb_dublin?)

unkel

H.E. Pennypacker wrote: »

I'm not mistaken. There are companies out there drilling tiles. I have emails from two companies saying that they do both and that there is an additional charge for flashing/hooks.

If they are drilling tiles instead of attaching hooks like in my pic above to the rafters, they are cowboys that should be reported. A good storm and your panels will go flying. And the tiles will go flying with them.

H.E. Pennypacker wrote: »

I'm based in Ireland (south). The offering is 6 cent per kWh paid. Quote from their email:


"We have secured a feed in tariff with a highly competitive energy company. If you have a building where you will not take full advantage of the solar that is generated. If you sign up with us we can get you 6c per kWh excess so that even when you are not using the power, you are knocking money off your bills."

That is very interesting! Any more info?

H.E. Pennypacker

unkel wrote: »

If they are drilling tiles instead of attaching hooks like in my pic above to the rafters, they are cowboys that should be reported. A good storm and your panels will go flying. And the tiles will go flying with them.




That is very interesting! Any more info?

I can PM you the company details if you like and you can have a chat with them about it. I know nothing more than I was told in a mail that I received because I had got a quote for PV from them - I've no association with them.


The good news in all of this is that SEAI don't allow tile drilling so the grant should raise standards a bit

Balanadan

unkel wrote: »

If they are drilling tiles instead of attaching hooks like in my pic above to the rafters, they are cowboys that should be reported. A good storm and your panels will go flying. And the tiles will go flying with them.




That is very interesting! Any more info?

It's not that the panels will go flying, they would drill through and fix to the rafter. The problem is that you'll end up with cracked tiles/slates and a leaking roof.

Gumbo

H.E. Pennypacker wrote: »

I'm based in Ireland (south). The offering is 6 cent per kWh paid. Quote from their email:


"We have secured a feed in tariff with a highly competitive energy company. If you have a building where you will not take full advantage of the solar that is generated. If you sign up with us we can get you 6c per kWh excess so that even when you are not using the power, you are knocking money off your bills."


This may or may not be a separate offering to a previous poster on this forum who was talking about something similar (jb_dublin?)

6c per kWh
So on a good day that generates 20kwh for example (typical of the very sunny days recently) and let’s assume you use none of it, that’s only a payment of €1.20. I thought FIT was better than that or am I mistaken?

H.E. Pennypacker

kceire wrote: »

6c per kWh
So on a good day that generates 20kwh for example (typical of the very sunny days recently) and let’s assume you use none of it, that’s only a payment of €1.20. I thought FIT was better than that or am I mistaken?

The Electric Ireland FIT was 9 cent per kWh. I've no idea what utility company this new one is associated with.

quentingargan

H.E. Pennypacker wrote: »

The Electric Ireland FIT was 9 cent per kWh. I've no idea what utility company this new one is associated with.

I know a provider who was offering buy-back to small industry at about 6c. That figure is approximate and would be the ISEM price for the time of export - typically 5c to 6c.

I have asked them if they are doing domestic. Will revert when I hear back, but 'tis a bank holiday...

unkel

6c is a lot more than the value you get for diverting it to immersion (about 4c) and you don't have to pay for any hardware / install! Immersion diverter costs about €500 installed

If I could get 6c, I would definitely sign up and probably install more PV