Smart Alarm

Blanchy90

Hey sorry if this has been covered already.

I'm moving into a new build 3 bed terrace house very soon and I'm starting to look at alarm systems.

Are there any good reliable systems that you recommend?
The house is wired for sensors on the windows and doors but I could go wireless either.

I will be going down the smart home route one step at a time haha so far I have 2 echo dots and a sonoff switch in the post.

We had initially planned to go with a monitored alarm for the first year but at €500+ I'd rather get something that can tie in with other smart projects

Cheers

Stoner

Again lots of info here already look at BK's posts on same

bk

So unfortunately, unlike other HA smart product categories, there currently is no good and easy answer to this question for the UK/Ireland market. It is a very much an immature and untapped market, as security companies are understandably conservative.

So first of all you have the traditional alarm systems, your HKC, Siemens/vanderbilt, GSD, etc. Typically they don't do HA, at least not in the modern sense that we mostly talk about here. They can however do Internet connected, with remote monitoring and control, etc.

The one exception is Cytech Comfort, which is a traditional alarm that has some decent integration. Though it isn't common in the Irish market and might be difficult to get.

BTW There are ways to hack into the more traditional alarm systems like HKC, Visionic, etc. using shouldering, Arduino, etc. Though that is likely outside most peoples experience. I can point you to links for that if your interested.

Then there are the new Smart Alarm Systems popping up in the US over the last few months, Google Nest, Ring, Samsung/ADT SmartThings, etc. These look really cool and closer to what we want, but they currently aren't available in the UK/Ireland and currently lack some important features that you would want for a UK/Ireland system. I do think these will eventually come here in the next year or two and will shake things up, but for now they aren't available.

There are two sort of semi-modern DIY systems that can partly be integrated with SmartThings. Honeywell Evohome and Yale Smart Alarm. I recently bought the Yale. It is ok, I'm happy with it, though it definitely lacks some of the features of the more traditional alarm systems, but then it is also about 1/3rd of the cost of those! I wouldn't necessarily whole heartily recommend either of these. I got my Yale one as a stopgap measure for a few years until this market matures and I'll likely replace it with something more modern in a few years.

So that is more a less a high level overview of the market here at the moment. Sorry no really good, easy answers to this question. Let me if you have more questions.

Blanchy90

Thanks bk very helpful as always.

I've been looking at the konnected.io alarm and I'm definitely considering getting it.
I read your comments on the other thread about it and the issue of it going down is definitely a concern.

I'll look into the Honeywell Evohome and Yale Smart Alarm systems when I get a chance.
I'm new to home owning as well as home automation so I'm gone cross eyed looking at all the possibilities for different systems haha.
It'd be a shame to get an alarm that can't tie in with other systems but if teh technology isn't there yet I'll get something that'll do for a few years.

kub

bk wrote: »

So unfortunately, unlike other HA smart product categories, there currently is no good and easy answer to this question for the UK/Ireland market. It is a very much an immature and untapped market, as security companies are understandably conservative.

So first of all you have the traditional alarm systems, your HKC, Siemens/vanderbilt, GSD, etc. Typically they don't do HA, at least not in the modern sense that we mostly talk about here. They can however do Internet connected, with remote monitoring and control, etc.

The one exception is Cytech Comfort, which is a traditional alarm that has some decent integration. Though it isn't common in the Irish market and might be difficult to get.

BTW There are ways to hack into the more traditional alarm systems like HKC, Visionic, etc. using shouldering, Arduino, etc. Though that is likely outside most peoples experience. I can point you to links for that if your interested.

Then there are the new Smart Alarm Systems popping up in the US over the last few months, Google Nest, Ring, Samsung/ADT SmartThings, etc. These look really cool and closer to what we want, but they currently aren't available in the UK/Ireland and currently lack some important features that you would want for a UK/Ireland system. I do think these will eventually come here in the next year or two and will shake things up, but for now they aren't available.

There are two sort of semi-modern DIY systems that can partly be integrated with SmartThings. Honeywell Evohome and Yale Smart Alarm. I recently bought the Yale. It is ok, I'm happy with it, though it definitely lacks some of the features of the more traditional alarm systems, but then it is also about 1/3rd of the cost of those! I wouldn't necessarily whole heartily recommend either of these. I got my Yale one as a stopgap measure for a few years until this market matures and I'll likely replace it with something more modern in a few years.

So that is more a less a high level overview of the market here at the moment. Sorry no really good, easy answers to this question. Let me if you have more questions.

Hi BK, I just came across this thread, I am curious as to what you mentioned above, as i have highlighted.
Would you please tell me more about that?

bk

kub wrote: »

Hi BK, I just came across this thread, I am curious as to what you mentioned above, as i have highlighted.
Would you please tell me more about that?

Not for the faint of heart, and of course would invalidate warranty, etc., here you go for HKC systems:

https://www.instructables.com/id/Internet-Enable-a-HKC-Home-Alarm/

And a bit more about this over on this thread in the home security forum, you may have to read back a few pages:

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057113381&page=15

I've seen folks over on the SmartThings forum do similar with Visionic systems in the UK and hook them up to SmartThings.

Stoner

Also note that using IFTTT and texts / stringify you can use text outputs from your alarm to trigger actions.
These can turn things on and off and require little work

So a text from a particular phone number and containing the text "alarm" can be used to switch lights and sockets

You can do a lot with texts without doing any damage or with little technical knowledge

wexfordman2

Blanchy90 wrote: »

Thanks bk very helpful as always.

I've been looking at the konnected.io alarm and I'm definitely considering getting it.
I read your comments on the other thread about it and the issue of it going down is definitely a concern.

I'll look into the Honeywell Evohome and Yale Smart Alarm systems when I get a chance.
I'm new to home owning as well as home automation so I'm gone cross eyed looking at all the possibilities for different systems haha.
It'd be a shame to get an alarm that can't tie in with other systems but if teh technology isn't there yet I'll get something that'll do for a few years.

The comfort alarm from cytech, has an interface available to most automation protocols, and a new node red interface is in beta test at the moment (getting my hands on a beta version hopefully in the next few eeks).

I have managed mine integrated to my.lighting system (velbus), openhabian, smart things, hue and google assistant.

If your going down a diy install route worth thinking about, although it is pricier than standard alarm systems as it is both an excellent alarm system and well integrated to home automation systems.

fergalom

The other alarm worth mentioning is Siemens Vanderbilt SPC. Gateway available to tie into nodered and as well as other HA systems.

BobbyT28

bk wrote: »

So unfortunately, unlike other HA smart product categories, there currently is no good and easy answer to this question for the UK/Ireland market. It is a very much an immature and untapped market, as security companies are understandably conservative.

So first of all you have the traditional alarm systems, your HKC, Siemens/vanderbilt, GSD, etc. Typically they don't do HA, at least not in the modern sense that we mostly talk about here. They can however do Internet connected, with remote monitoring and control, etc.

The one exception is Cytech Comfort, which is a traditional alarm that has some decent integration. Though it isn't common in the Irish market and might be difficult to get.

BTW There are ways to hack into the more traditional alarm systems like HKC, Visionic, etc. using shouldering, Arduino, etc. Though that is likely outside most peoples experience. I can point you to links for that if your interested.

Then there are the new Smart Alarm Systems popping up in the US over the last few months, Google Nest, Ring, Samsung/ADT SmartThings, etc. These look really cool and closer to what we want, but they currently aren't available in the UK/Ireland and currently lack some important features that you would want for a UK/Ireland system. I do think these will eventually come here in the next year or two and will shake things up, but for now they aren't available.

There are two sort of semi-modern DIY systems that can partly be integrated with SmartThings. Honeywell Evohome and Yale Smart Alarm. I recently bought the Yale. It is ok, I'm happy with it, though it definitely lacks some of the features of the more traditional alarm systems, but then it is also about 1/3rd of the cost of those! I wouldn't necessarily whole heartily recommend either of these. I got my Yale one as a stopgap measure for a few years until this market matures and I'll likely replace it with something more modern in a few years.

So that is more a less a high level overview of the market here at the moment. Sorry no really good, easy answers to this question. Let me if you have more questions.

Thanks for that very helpful post. I will take all those things on board and consider what to do. I could really replace dodgy sensors around the house and keep the alarm for the next year until something "Smarter" comes out over here. I currently have two sensors faulty so may just get the current alarm serviced and hold out

Thanks again
BobbyT28

BobbyT28

Stoner wrote: »

Also note that using IFTTT and texts / stringify you can use text outputs from your alarm to trigger actions.
These can turn things on and off and require little work

So a text from a particular phone number and containing the text "alarm" can be used to switch lights and sockets

You can do a lot with texts without doing any damage or with little technical knowledge

Oh wow really? That is something that I would be really interested in. Only problem is that my old Airtech alarm doesn't have SMS functionality or is it possible to add a GSM sim to it?

wexfordman2

fergalom wrote: »

The other alarm worth mentioning is Siemens Vanderbilt SPC. Gateway available to tie into nodered and as well as other HA systems.

That's def worth looking in to

ctlsleh

I have a 20 year old Aritech alarm. When I renewed my insurance I told the, it was out of service, what I didn’t know is that the insurance companies limit your contents to 100k without an alarm even if you up your house rebuild cost to try to get it higher. So I’m in the market for a HA upgrade as I have lots of HA stuff in the house, however are any of these HA based alarms approved or accepted by insurance companies? Or do I have to upgrade to a more traditional Siemens/HKC/GSD etc?

Officer Giggles

ctlsleh wrote: »

I have a 20 year old Aritech alarm. When I renewed my insurance I told the, it was out of service, what I didn’t know is that the insurance companies limit your contents to 100k without an alarm even if you up your house rebuild cost to try to get it higher. So I’m in the market for a HA upgrade as I have lots of HA stuff in the house, however are any of these HA based alarms approved or accepted by insurance companies? Or do I have to upgrade to a more traditional Siemens/HKC/GSD etc?

You have to have an alarm that reaches the standard, it begins with the letters EN...., Anyway only the traditional alarms reach the standard and they must be installed by a professional and must be serviced every year for the insurance company to accept it. The usual advice is to tell your insurance company you simply don't have one. There is little saving and if you didn't have it set and got burgled then they wouldn't pay out

ctlsleh

Officer Giggles wrote: »

You have to have an alarm that reaches the standard, it begins with the letters EN...., Anyway only the traditional alarms reach the standard and they must be installed by a professional and must be serviced every year for the insurance company to accept it. The usual advice is to tell your insurance company you simply don't have one. There is little saving and if you didn't have it set and got burgled then they wouldn't pay out

Thanks Giggles,

My issue Is the limitation on the contents insurance without an approved alarm, I may just get what I have upgraded and updated if that’s possible, but would love some home integration with Alexa, hue, GH etc
Thanks for the info on the yearly maintenance, I wasn’t aware of that. Does anyone know if that old Aritech model can be upgraded?
I think it was the leading edge of technology at the time.........don’t know how they’ve evolved since

AstraMonti

Officer Giggles wrote: »

You have to have an alarm that reaches the standard, it begins with the letters EN...., Anyway only the traditional alarms reach the standard and they must be installed by a professional and must be serviced every year for the insurance company to accept it. The usual advice is to tell your insurance company you simply don't have one. There is little saving and if you didn't have it set and got burgled then they wouldn't pay out

Serviced? What needs to be serviced in an alarm if it's working?
I am not saying you are wrong, it just baffles me as it's the first i am reading it is a requirement from insurances.

OU812

This servicing thing is news to me too.

matrim

AstraMonti wrote: »

Serviced? What needs to be serviced in an alarm if it's working?
I am not saying you are wrong, it just baffles me as it's the first i am reading it is a requirement from insurances.

I haven't gotten it done but would imagine that most servicing would be sanity checking that components are working as expected (walk test), that backup battery has enough charge etc.

Officer Giggles

I believe the annual service acts as a recertification that the alarm system still complies with the required standards.


I know it was a condition of an insurance policy I had in the last few years, trying to dig it out to confirm.

bk

Servicing of Alarms on a yearly basis is a bit bs IMO. It is just a walk test and replacement of batteries if needed and sensors if required. For most people it doesn't need to be done yearly. But if that is what your insurance requires, then of course that is what you should do.

I normally recommend people not to put their alarm on the insurance, but in this case, if it is required due to the value of your contents, then that is a different story.

I think the only traditional alarm system that has some modern HA integration is the Cytech Comfort that Wexfordman has. But I think it maybe expensive and difficult to get in Ireland.

fergalom

going to offer my 2 cent also.
In addition to what has been mentioned by BK, Siemens Vanderbilt SPC is a good choice for HA integration.

Traditional system with the ability to get it certified by professional installer to EN.... Grade 2
Gateway available for a lot of common HA from DIY to more expensive systems
Vanderbilt are on-board with this as they have a page on it on their website
https://www.spcsupportinfo.com/SPCConnectPro/?page_id=1772
SPC are relatively easy to get here.

For the alarm installer, all they would need to do is the Flex C setup on the panel where they specify the IP of the gateway and some other minor settings.
(Not sure how a professional installer would view the gateway but I don't see why they would have an issue)

Setup of the gateway would be yours to deal with.

Officer Giggles

Can only find my documents for AXA policies which only state that "your alarm has to be maintained in line with the manufacturers guidelines".

Was certain I noticed it in a policy at one stage .....

bk

fergalom wrote: »

Gateway available for a lot of common HA from DIY to more expensive systems
Vanderbilt are on-board with this as they have a page on it on their website
https://www.spcsupportinfo.com/SPCConnectPro/?page_id=1772

Ah, I didn't realise they had integration with Home Assistant, nice:

https://www.home-assistant.io/components/spc/

Definitely a good option, should be possible to get around Dublin, but might find it a bit harder around the rest of the country.

You'd definitely want to tell the installer up front what you plan on doing, that you plan to do some tinkering and that you will need the engineer code/access. Some installers don't like giving that out, but you are completely entitled to it.

fergalom

bk wrote:

You'd definitely want to tell the installer up front what you plan on doing, that you plan to do some tinkering and that you will need the engineer code/access. Some installers don't like giving that out, but you are completely entitled to it.

Very true but you would not need the engineer code if you had gateway beforehand and agreed with installer to do the required settings on panel. After that you can link it to whatever HA you want without needing the installer or tinkering with the spc panel.