Taxing high tax cars loan

Idbatterim

This will be obvious enough, but might save a few of you , a few euro! I just went to see, what I would pay to borrow the E1809 max tax rate on the cc system, and the interest over a year with BOI at 8.5% was E85. The government, those thieving b**tards, get an extra E235 if you tax it by the quarter!

The other massive benefit is the payments are spread far more evenly...

MarkN

It’s certainly thinking outside but borrowing to pay your road tax on the one hand seems mad but then paying the government extra money is also mad!!

Idbatterim

MarkN wrote: »

It’s certainly thinking outside but borrowing to pay your road tax on the one hand seems mad but then paying the government extra money is also mad!!

Mark id take out the Loan from the bank and give them the extra e235 for all the headaches it involved, before I’d give it to those %*^>!#^! The upper rates here are a scandal. I’m holding onto my car now for a few years, once I have done that and the emission relatively “big “engined cars have depreciated significantly, I’ll move to one of them. Paying e750 would seem like a steal in comparison. The only thing is I’ll have to downgrade engine side to a 3l etc, I wouldn’t buy a diesel and even new truly large engines petrol cars are probably still in the 1200-2350 bracket!

MarkN

Idbatterim wrote: »

Mark id take out the Loan from the bank and give them the extra e235 for all the headaches it involved, before I’d give it to those %*^>!#^! The upper rates here are a scandal. I’m holding onto my car now for a few years, once I have done that and the emission relatively “big “engined cars have depreciated significantly, I’ll move to one of them. Paying e750 would seem like a steal in comparison. The only thing is I’ll have to downgrade engine side to a 3l etc, I wouldn’t buy a diesel and even new truly large engines petrol cars are probably still in the 1200-2350 bracket!

It is sickening alright. I’ve been looking at Bangernomics on DD and the big engined (in many cases low-ish mileage) is going for peanuts. It’s one side of our tax system that does good - only if you’re a buyer

sogood

There is the school of thought that says your road tax is whatever the highest amount is, by paying quarterly, but that you get a "reduction" by paying it in one lump. So you're not being penalised by paying quarterly, but rather, you're being "rewarded" by paying it annually in one chunk. That's just one way to look at it, which I don't actually agree with.

If the extra cost is for administrative reasons, then why isn't it a flat rate, across all engine sizes? Why must it be a percentage of the actual tax? The administration is the exact same either way! It's so that bigger engine cars are penalised, to drive them out of existence. I got tired of paying €1,800 per annum (in one chunk) on my 96 4.0L XJ6 Sovereign and finally sent it to the scrapper to get the refund of €1,300 tax still on it. It was a lovely driver, on the button, etc.etc. but to find a buyer for it was a long shot, and realistically, I wouldn't have gotten a lot more than the tax that was on it. Every passing month in my drive meant that the tax refund was running down. No way to "freeze" it by declaring it off the road.

So now I drive a 09 3.0D XF and pay "only" €750 per annum. Another one bites the dust!

AndrewJRenko

There is probably a fixed cost element to each bank transaction that justifies some part of the higher fee. There is also a reasonable argument about covering four parts of the cost of the IT infrastructure and applications if you're going to use it four times.

Wildcard7

Why would you not pay the yearly rate, assuming you intend to actually keep the car for the entire year?

Buying four single cans of Heinz beans costs 4.16€, buying four cans in a multipack costs 3.49€.
Tesco actually pockets the extra 19%! Oh the scandal!

Idbatterim

This will be obvious enough, but might save a few of you , a few euro! I just went to see, what I would pay to borrow the E1809 max tax rate on the cc system, and the interest over a year with BOI at 8.5% was E85. The government, those thieving b**tards, get an extra E235 if you tax it by the quarter!

sorry my figure was wrong, you save E150 total, plus the bank interest of E85= the E235.

If the extra cost is for administrative reasons, then why isn't it a flat rate, across all engine sizes? Why must it be a percentage of the actual tax? The administration is the exact same either way! It's so that bigger engine cars are penalised, to drive them out of existence. I got tired of paying €1,800 per annum (in one chunk) on my 96 4.0L XJ6 Sovereign and finally sent it to the scrapper to get the refund of €1,300 tax still on it. It was a lovely driver, on the button, etc.etc. but to find a buyer for it was a long shot, and realistically, I wouldn't have gotten a lot more than the tax that was on it. Every passing month in my drive meant that the tax refund was running down. No way to "freeze" it by declaring it off the road.

the only way I would pay the top rate, as I do, is if the car is truly special, with an engine way over 3L, unless is was something like an E46 M3, where you might take the 3.2 engine...

Wildcard7

Wildcard7 wrote: »

Why would you not pay the yearly rate, assuming you intend to actually keep the car for the entire year?.............

Cash flow.
€1809 in a single payment is a fair whack of cash regardless of your income IMO

Wildcard7

Augeo wrote: »

Cash flow.
€1809 in a single payment is a fair whack of cash regardless of your income IMO

If you [not you personally, but the general public] would stop buying stuff you can't afford (new car, holidays, phones, whatnot) with money you don't have (PCP, HP, bank loans) and therefore get charged interest on top of the actual cost, you might just be able to accumulate enough savings to cover completely forseeable expenses like this.

But that's probably none of my business *sips coffee*.


I personally wouldn't consider a bank loan or quarterly payment for my car tax. Not because I'm loaded, but because I'm not.

I can see your point.......... but you did ask "Why would you not pay the yearly rate".

kona

Wildcard7 wrote: »

If you [not you personally, but the general public] would stop buying stuff you can't afford (new car, holidays, phones, whatnot) with money you don't have (PCP, HP, bank loans) and therefore get charged interest on top of the actual cost, you might just be able to accumulate enough savings to cover completely forseeable expenses like this.

But that's probably none of my business *sips coffee*.


I personally wouldn't consider a bank loan or quarterly payment for my car tax. Not because I'm loaded, but because I'm not.

Arnt you just fan ****ing tastic.:rolleyes:

Idbatterim

Augeo wrote: »

Cash flow.
€1809 in a single payment is a fair whack of cash regardless of your income IMO

precisely this, I was about to pay it the other day, (the full E1809) for the year, but I have several other projects, that I am investing money into, that absolutely take precedence over parting with not far off 2k in a lump. This thread was purely an FYI. the motor tax threads are done to death, its a joke of a system, but we all know the system.

Im just saying, you can save E150 ish and have it far better spread over the year.

bear1

Wildcard7 wrote: »

If you [not you personally, but the general public] would stop buying stuff you can't afford (new car, holidays, phones, whatnot) with money you don't have (PCP, HP, bank loans) and therefore get charged interest on top of the actual cost, you might just be able to accumulate enough savings to cover completely forseeable expenses like this.

But that's probably none of my business *sips coffee*.


I personally wouldn't consider a bank loan or quarterly payment for my car tax. Not because I'm loaded, but because I'm not.

Flawed logic.
Not everyone is on PCP, HP, fancy holidays etc and even so if you are on PCP then more than likley you aren't paying 1809e in tax for a pre 08 car and God help those that want a nice powerful car post 08.
There are so many expenses in life that no matter what project I had, handing over 1809e for a little ****ty disc to drive on equally ****ty roads is a complete and utter farce.
These threads always end the same, we can huff and puff all we like but the Government is never EVER going to cut a deal with motorists regarding this.
They could easily remove admin costs and make it electronic or if they prefer to live in the early 00s then a DD system whereby you pay monthly but then you're left with the risk that you stop paying the DD -> move to electronic and it would be picked up at the first check point.

bazz26

You would think but the Brits introduced the paperless motor tax system a few years back and it's actually costing them more in lost revenue and an increase in tax evasion than when they had the paper disc system:

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2017/nov/16/untaxed-vehicles-uk-trebles-tax-disc-abolition-vehicle-excise-duty-dvla

Imagine how our even less efficient system would deal with it?

bear1

bazz26 wrote: »

You would think but the Brits introduced the paperless motor tax system a few years back and it's actually costing them more in lost revenue and an increase in tax evasion than when they had the paper disc system:

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2017/nov/16/untaxed-vehicles-uk-trebles-tax-disc-abolition-vehicle-excise-duty-dvla

Imagine how our even less efficient system would deal with it?

Shure we'd bollocks it up in our special way though. Surely it's worth it just for that alone?

AndrewJRenko

bear1 wrote: »

They could easily remove admin costs and make it electronic or if they prefer to live in the early 00s then a DD system whereby you pay monthly but then you're left with the risk that you stop paying the DD -> move to electronic and it would be picked up at the first check point.

How much would the network of electronic check points cost?

bear1

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

How much would the network of electronic check points cost?

Tree fiddy.
No idea tbh.

bazz26

bear1 wrote: »

Shure we'd bollocks it up in our special way though. Surely it's worth it just for that alone?

We would probably hire expensive consultants who are mates with a minister to tell us what we already know.