Future of Ryanair

Arghus

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

Work for the competition then

That's a lame answer.

Bit of a flippant response, things aren't always so simple for people.

Poulgorm

Poulgorm wrote: »

Before Ryanair, a return flight to/from London used to cost your monthly take home pay. Well, mine anyway, as it was then.

Maybe the younger folk here are not aware of this.

Having said that, O'Leary was publicly disparaging of many of his staff (particularly the pilots). It was nasty, needless and pointless and I suspect he is paying the price for it now.

When I was young, it used to cost a weeks wage to call Australia on the phone, technology changes and so have airlines. Ryanair's a bus service with wings.

Achasanai

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

Work for the competition then

Or, stay in the job you have, and unionise to get better working conditions and/or pay.



I know which one I would choose.

end of the road

ziggy wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

they had to let the non-greedy non-parasitic unions in . it was the best thing they ever did and it was always going to happen, it was a case of when and not if. the game was up in that regard and hence it happened. the issues at ryan air were decades in the making IMO.
as for it's future, it will be fine.

Cordell wrote: »

Siding with the employees when they are against the employer, that I can understand. Siding with the union when you're being used as a bargaining chip, no so much.

the striking staff aren't being used as a bargaining chip. they are capible of making their own decisians. they know why they voted to strike.

SEPT 23 1989

end of the road wrote: »

they had to let the non-greedy non-parasitic unions in . it was the best thing they ever did and it was always going to happen, it was a case of when and not if. the game was up in that regard and hence it happened. the issues at ryan air were decades in the making IMO.
as for it's future, it will be fine.



the striking staff aren't being used as a bargaining chip. they are capible of making their own decisians. they know why they voted to strike.

The unions are trying to flex their muscle

That worked years ago

Won't happen today Especially with Ryanair

end of the road

Resverathrole wrote: »

The only reason I'd join one is because I'm so lazy that I'd get fired otherwise.

being in a union does not and cannot prevent someone from being fired. the idea that it can is a complete myth. there are more reasons to join a union then to not join.

Resverathrole wrote: »

So go figure why they're bad for the company!

they are good for the employees.

Resverathrole wrote: »

Also, as far as I know, it's mandatory for a lot of employees to join a union as soon as they're hired. So they're basically been robbed. This also means that unions can afford to be lazy.

they aren't being robbed. the reason some companies mandate union membership is because it's easier for them to collectively negotiate various issues with a union then individual employees. a good union certainly can't afford to be lazy in any circumstances. if they are lazy, they aren't a good or proper union

richiepurgas

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

Work for the competition then

That is where many of them end up, they use Ryanair as a training school.

Tin Foil Hat

Rights or wrongs of the dispute aside, I wouldn't dream of booking a flight on an airline with ongoing industrial action.

end of the road

Hellrazer wrote: »

He should just sack the lot of them and deal with the WRC fallout.

not viable. they already don't have a great reputation for good terms and conditions as it is .

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

Work for the competition then

or improve things where they are, which would be a better option.

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

The unions are trying to flex their muscle

That worked years ago

Won't happen today Especially with Ryanair

yes the union are doing their job, the job their members pay them to do. sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't.

Hitman3000

easygoing39 wrote:

The world?? I never knew RA flew to New York,Perth,Rio,Bangkok,Abu Dhabi etc etc

You get to fly out of Ireland cheap to a destination where you could get cheap flights to other parts of the world.

Capt'n Midnight

easygoing39 wrote: »

In reality they fly to Europe,and alot of those airports are in the middle of no-where.

My personal favorite was the flight to "Copenhagen".

You landed in Sweden.

And before the bridge you had to get to the ferryport and then wait for an international ferry.


If you use Ryanair you have to be VERY aware of all the rules and how much they will charge you if you break their rules. Other than that it's a simple matter of how much you value your time.

SEPT 23 1989

end of the road wrote: »

not viable. they already don't have a great reputation for good terms and conditions as it is .



or improve things where they are, which would be a better option.



yes the union are doing their job, the job their members pay them to do. sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't.

Won't work this time with Ryanair

They have the pockets not to tolerate idle threats

You want a job then work

The beards will see you on the dole q and still take home 100k a year

Capt'n Midnight

Deleted User wrote: »

When I was young, it used to cost a weeks wage to call Australia on the phone, technology changes and so have airlines. Ryanair's a bus service with wings.

There's another clue in the name of the company that has about half the Airliner market - Airbus.

At one point Ryanair were trying to do a shuttle service from Casement to London. No booking, just arrive and queue up for the next plane.

Maybe it was PR, but it was the bus station model.

Goldengirl

This post has been deleted.

end of the road

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

Won't work this time with Ryanair

They have the pockets not to tolerate idle threats

the union is in ryanair. the game is up for the old ways. having the pockets not to tolerate this and that won't save them from what has been coming for a long time.

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

You want a job then work

ryanair should provide better terms and conditions, and then the striking staff will work.

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

The beards will see you on the dole q and still take home 100k a year

the unions will represent their members and will take home the wage that most likely is decided by the membership. if something does go wrong meaning that some members do end up on the dole, then the union still has other members it has to get on with representing. it goes without saying that the union should be doing what it can to help those members who would have lost their jobs.

blinding

Goldengirl wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

I would just like to add Michael O’ BigMouth is a Poxed Bollocks and that is on a good day .

Brendan Bendar

Hmmmm... Lot of bile building up here.

animaal

I'm glad Ryanair exist, and that they provide a different service than the competitors. Choice is good. And they did force the airline industry to change for the better.

Michael O'Leary is a loudmouth pain. The service Ryanair offers doesn't appeal to me so I don't fly with them. If their working conditions don't appeal to you, don't work for them.

It's not like anybody joined Ryanair thinking they'd be treated like an AerLingus employee of the 1970s! If their employment terms are bad, then don't join them. If you have agreed to work for them, then keep your side of the deal. If Ryanair can't hire, they'll have to make themselves more attractive.

Why can a pilot (€156,150)be paid more than a consultant in a hospital (€120,000)? It's supply and demand, it's difficult to find pilots. That's fair enough, and I haven't even heard of any union people try to change it. Why then can't supply and demand also work downward, for companies setting their pay and conditions?

Geuze

Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote: »

Ryanair must be losing millions in revenue. I'd have no massive concerns about booking with them, as I did last week for a trip to Portugal in September, but I know a friend of mine said he's happier to pay an extra €90 to book with Aer Lingus for a trip to England he's planning.

When it comes to travel, this sh!t unsettles people.

July 2018 pax up 4% to 13.1m pax.

https://corporate.ryanair.com/news/july-traffic-grows-4-to-13-1m-customers/

Load factor at 97%, very high.

Fares flat, though, or softening.

LuckyLloyd

If Ryanair were to go bust or significantly change their model (and I severely doubt this industrial relations strife will result in anything like that) then another company would come in and fill the void. For sure, they changed the face of the airline industry. But the idea that they remain crucial to maintenance of the new landscape is flawed.

The past is the past, so saying 'don't forget what Ryanair did for cheap flights' is no longer an argument against poor employer practices or lacking customer service. The issues should be debated on their own merits.

At present I think people would be slightly mad to be booking trips with them as industrial actions seem to only be increasing across their network.

Wanderer78

animaal wrote:

)? It's supply and demand, it's difficult to find pilots. That's fair enough, and I haven't even heard of any union people try to change it. Why then can't supply and demand also work downward, for companies setting their pay and conditions?

Supply and demand and blah blah blah, at what stage do the people that made Ryanair a success, it's employees, get a little respect, it's not all about the money, monetisation of everything doesn't truly solve all human needs.

Brendan Bendar

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

If Ryanair were to go bust or significantly change their model (and I severely doubt this industrial relations strife will result in anything like that) then another company would come in and fill the void. For sure, they changed the face of the airline industry. But the idea that they remain crucial to maintenance of the new landscape is flawed.

The past is the past, so saying 'don't forget what Ryanair did for cheap flights' is no longer an argument against poor employer practices or lacking customer service. The issues should be debated on their own merits.

At present I think people would be slightly mad to be booking trips with them as industrial actions seem to only be increasing across their network.

Like I keep saying, this stuff will take months and months to wash through the system, but wash through it will, things will change but not majorly.

blinding

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Supply and demand and blah blah blah, at what stage do the people that made Ryanair a success, it's employees, get a little respect, it's not all about the money, monetisation of everything doesn't truly solve all human needs.

Michael O’ BigMouth’s Big Mouth certainly did not do all the work itself .

Wanderer78

blinding wrote:

Michael O’ BigMouth’s Big Mouth certainly did not do all the work itself .

Ah he personifies the modern cooperate leader, i.e. an extravert, charismatic and somewhat abuse to his employees, it's good for business, keep them down, in their place

El Tarangu

Arghus wrote: »

That's a lame answer.

Bit of a flippant response, things aren't always so simple for people.

Why is it a lame answer? They accepted the pay and conditions when they took up the position; if you are unhappy with your pay and conditions, find a new job where you are happy with the pay and conditions.

Goldengirl wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

I am not an aviation expert but that sounds extremely unlikely

Third time we were told we would be flying to Cork instead of Waterford because of fog, at the last minute. Then they flew us to Shannon! My poor dad had driven to Waterford , and then to Cork in the middle of the night to collect me.

You can hardly hold M'OL accountable for the weather - would you rather they tried to land in the fog an risk killing everyone on board?

blinding

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Ah he personifies the modern cooperate leader, i.e. an extravert, charismatic and somewhat abuse to his employees, it's good for business, keep them down, in their place

He is certainly not some one to look up to . He certainly should be shown no deference . We have been down that road before with the wrong people and it did not end well .

He is a ruthless bully , repulsive in his treatment of people . It has been successful for him but what he is should not be ignored .

Turnipman

Goldengirl wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Indeed they would. Shure everyone knows that Ryanair planes can fly themselves! No pilots required.

MO'L only keeps them on the books so he can amuse himself by paying them up to €200K a year for doing nothing! :rolleyes:

Dave0301

Goldengirl wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

I have flown with Ryanair for the last 10/11 years, and probably had over 40 flights. Only ever had one long delay and got full compensation with them.

I know there is no smoke without fire, but jaysus I love those cheap deals they do

murpho999

Goldengirl wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

So firstly you used to get the boat.

Why was that? Any chance because it was simply too expensive to fly with Aer Lingus as they ripped customers off for years? Nobody criticises them for that and still think that their drinks on the IR£250 flight to London was free.

Then you flew Ryanair, and you could see the Irish Sea? What rubbish. Ryanair safety record is second to none and they now have a very modern fleet.

Lost bag: Can you name me an airline that has never lost a bag? If it was just a weekend bag why didn’t you bring it on board?

Incidents like fog, lost bags etc happen with every airline. There’s a lot that can go wrong in the industry but people like to complain about Ryanair more.

Also, Aer Lingus had strikes a couple of years ago that impacted thousands of customers. Have they had any long term damage from it?

Were you on here accusing the CEO of just creaming profits and trying to get rid of all staff?

El Tarangu

murpho999 wrote: »

Lost bag: Can you name me an airline that has never lost a bag? If it was just a weekend bag why didn’t you bring it on board?

I have had two airlines misplace my bag before - once with Ryanair, once with another airline (BA? Can't remember).

On each occasion, the airline had it sent to me by courier within a few hours. I think the story of having to go themselves to pick it up from the airport falls into the same category as 'could see the sea through the floor of the plane'.

Hitman3000

Goldengirl wrote:

This post has been deleted.

Was it a 'Sopwith Camel' were you the rear gunner?

end of the road

El Tarangu wrote: »

Why is it a lame answer?

because it is . it doesn't address the reality.

El Tarangu wrote: »

They accepted the pay and conditions when they took up the position;

and now they want to change them. because they (most likely grudgingly) accepted the pay and conditions to take the job, that may have been their only opening and opportunity to get into the industry at the time, does not make those pay and conditions correct, does not mean the employees have to go on accepting them, nor doesn't mean they can't change them.

El Tarangu wrote: »

if you are unhappy with your pay and conditions, find a new job where you are happy with the pay and conditions.

or improve the pay and conditions in the job you are in, which will have a bigger benefit.

end of the road

animaal wrote: »

If their working conditions don't appeal to you, don't work for them.

or even better, improve the conditions at ryanair.

animaal wrote: »

It's not like anybody joined Ryanair thinking they'd be treated like an AerLingus employee of the 1970s!

that ultimately doesn't matter. if they join an airline that happens to have not so good terms and conditions, then they are doing so because perhapse it was the only opening at the time. however times change and people want better, hence correctly wanting to improve the terms and conditions at ryanair.

animaal wrote: »

If their employment terms are bad, then don't join them. If you have agreed to work for them, then keep your side of the deal. If Ryanair can't hire, they'll have to make themselves more attractive.

if employment terms are bad, you can either not join a company, or join it and if there are enough people, make those terms better. if one has agreed to work for them, then they should keep their side of the deal in so far as simply doing the job, however if there are issues such as the terms not being up to scratch, then those terms should be improved.

animaal wrote: »

Why can a pilot (€156,150)be paid more than a consultant in a hospital (€120,000)? It's supply and demand, it's difficult to find pilots. That's fair enough, and I haven't even heard of any union people try to change it. Why then can't supply and demand also work downward, for companies setting their pay and conditions?

because it can't. workers are entitled to good terms and conditions, no excuses. ryanair haven't been offering the best terms and conditions, and in the case of some areas absolutely rubbish ones. just because people work for them (because it might have been their only opportunity to get into the industry at the time) it doesn't mean they have to put up with what they were offered, and thankfully they don't. they can change the terms at their employer, as it should be.

animaal

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Supply and demand and blah blah blah, at what stage do the people that made Ryanair a success, it's employees, get a little respect, it's not all about the money, monetisation of everything doesn't truly solve all human needs.

Putting aside the childish jibes about "respect", I think there's more to it than that. What made RyanAir so much more successful than other airlines of the time (including Aer Lingus) wasn't that the RyanAir employees were far better than those in other airlines. Most likely they were of a similar standard. It was Michael Bigmouth O'Leary. As much as I dislike him (and wouldn't work for him), his policies led to a far more successful RyanAir and more accessible air travel for the public. His policies also led to flight being a less enjoyable mode of transport, but travelers have it better today overall.

I never said all that matters is money. I'm not trying to solve "all human needs". But money is very important, otherwise it wouldn't be a constant source of friction between unions and employers. When I agree to work for an employer, I don't sign a contract that guarantees fulfillment of "all my needs". I sign one that guarantees a rate of pay and T&Cs that I can live with. If I do so knowing that I can't/won't live with them, I'm a fool.

OldRio

Dave0301 wrote: »

I have flown with Ryanair for the last 10/11 years, and probably had over 40 flights. Only ever had one long delay and got full compensation with them.

I know there is no smoke without fire, but jaysus I love those cheap deals they do

This.
I also have flown numerous times with them and only once was there a problem, fog, which to my limited knowledge of such things is not Ryanair fault.
Some of us are old enough to remember paying over 200 punt for a seat with Aer Lingus for a flight to the UK.

richiepurgas

animaal wrote: »

Putting aside the childish jibes about "respect", I think there's more to it than that. What made RyanAir so much more successful than other airlines of the time (including Aer Lingus) wasn't that the RyanAir employees were far better than those in other airlines. Most likely they were of a similar standard. It was Michael Bigmouth O'Leary. As much as I dislike him (and wouldn't work for him), his policies led to a far more successful RyanAir and more accessible air travel for the public. His policies also led to flight being a less enjoyable mode of transport, but travelers have it better today overall.

I never said all that matters is money. I'm not trying to solve "all human needs". But money is very important, otherwise it wouldn't be a constant source of friction between unions and employers. When I agree to work for an employer, I don't sign a contract that guarantees fulfillment of "all my needs". I sign one that guarantees a rate of pay and T&Cs that I can live with. If I do so knowing that I can't/won't live with them, I'm a fool.

As I said earlier, the issues in dispute have little or nothing to do with money. They are all about fairness in how staff are treated. As of now, you can be sent from one base to another on the whim of a manager who doesn't have to explain why. This can create huge difficulties for staff changing home and perhaps even schools for kids as well. A transparent system exists in just about every other major airline but,no, Ryanair want to have that type of threat hanging over its employees as a means of control and discipline.

Resverathrole

Wanderer78 wrote: »

has everyone truly benefited from it, has potentially treating employees with disrespect truly benefited us all?

Why didn't you just draw the dole if it was that bad at Ryanair.

Resverathrole

Poulgorm wrote: »

Having said that, O'Leary was publicly disparaging of many of his staff (particularly the pilots). It was nasty, needless and pointless and I suspect he is paying the price for it now.

When? I'd like to know more about that.

Wanderer78

Resverathrole wrote: »

Why didn't you just draw the dole if it was that bad at Ryanair.

ive never been an employee of ryanair, and hopefully i ll never be, i have worked for a large cooperation though in the aerospace industry and have witness some dreadful treatment of some employees, including at management level

dudara

I think some people don’t realise how big a business Ryanair is now. They are not a scrappy start-up or mid-tier enterprise. Ryanair’s financial performance is extremely strong, and in terms of size, they are a mega-carrier, surpassing many of the legacy airlines. They have a strong order book with Boeing, and they expect to continue to grow.

Cancelling 20 flights a week due to strikes isn’t going to impact them significantly financially and passengers won’t reslly be deterred by the strikes as long as the deals and prices remain attractive.

Resverathrole

end of the road wrote: »

the reason some companies mandate union membership is because it's easier for them to collectively negotiate various issues with a union then individual employees.

That sounds like the equivalent excuse that a politician would make when trying to justify NAMA.

It should be my choice to "take my chances", just in the same way I have no health insurance. I save a fortune because. Otherwise all the worrying about expenses wouldn't be good for my blood pressure.

PlaneSpeeking

I've flown Ryanair every other week, at least, during the footy season for getting on 11 years now.

One delay in nearly 500 flights, and it was unavoidable because of fog (the AL flight was cancelled).

I've a booking out and back tomorrow and will continue to book with them.

Half the bile on here is for O'Leary and whilst I am sure he is as bad a pox as everyone says, he's not in the cabin with me so who cares.

The other half is support for the unions - those organisations led by Trotskyite morons who get 6 figures however they do their "job".

Resverathrole

Goldengirl wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

But how could that be?

PlaneSpeeking

Resverathrole wrote: »

That sounds like the equivalent excuse that a politician would make when trying to justify NAMA.

It should be my choice to "take my chances", just in the same way I have no health insurance. I save a fortune because. Otherwise all the worrying about expenses wouldn't be good for my blood pressure.

I tried to leave a union in the UK (CPSA, that "represented" civil servants).

I'd say leaving Joseph Fritzel's basement was easier and less upsetting. Actual threats!!! Mad stuff!

PlaneSpeeking

Resverathrole wrote: »

But how could that be?

When you make stuff up you can say anything!!!

Resverathrole

Geuze wrote: »

July 2018 pax up 4% to 13.1m pax.

https://corporate.ryanair.com/news/july-traffic-grows-4-to-13-1m-customers/

Load factor at 97%, very high.

Fares flat, though, or softening.

Share price dipping a fair bit.

Wanderer78

Resverathrole wrote: »

Share price dipping a fair bit.

do share prices and market values truly reflect the well being of society and your work force?

Resverathrole

Wanderer78 wrote: »

at what stage do the people that made Ryanair a success, it's employees, get a little respect?

Ultimately they don't deserve it. They didn't have the courage or shrewdness to create the business model. They're just pawns who decided, themselves, to work for RA. It's the O'Learys of this world that motivate people to make something of themselves.

PlaneSpeeking

Wanderer78 wrote: »

do share prices and market values truly reflect the well being of society and your work force?

Considering Snapchat lost a billion quid or something based on the social media post of some vacuous bint - I'd not give any credence to share prices having any real world validity.

Resverathrole

PlaneSpeeking wrote: »

I tried to leave a union in the UK (CPSA, that "represented" civil servants).

I'd say leaving Joseph Fritzel's basement was easier and less upsetting. Actual threats!!! Mad stuff!

Gee, tell me more.