2018 Preseason Thread

Realt Dearg Sec

Jolly Red Giant wrote: »

Actually they have been trying to talk him up - Joseph keeps saying he is 'making progress' - Musgrave was reflecting the frustration of the players and coaches. Plus I think they know that nobody will give anything for him. I have seen fewer QBs play in the NFL that are as bad as he is.

I get that, I just would have thought somebody might tell the coaches not too be taking swipes at him if the objective is to get a pick for him or something. Seems short sighted when it's so easy to answer press questions with "he's progressing well, working hard to improve, always gives it his all" rather than making snide remarks

TOss Sweep

Its stupidity on their part is what it is. They got a lemon and no team is going to give them anything for him. They should just cut him and take the hit.

2016 Draft was one of the worst drafts for QBs and the Broncos got sucked into taking Lynch.

j8wk2feszrnpao

TOss Sweep wrote: »

2016 Draft was one of the worst drafts for QBs and the Broncos got sucked into taking Lynch.

Probably McDaniels fault.

Jolly Red Giant

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

I get that, I just would have thought somebody might tell the coaches not too be taking swipes at him if the objective is to get a pick for him or something. Seems short sighted when it's so easy to answer press questions with "he's progressing well, working hard to improve, always gives it his all" rather than making snide remarks

Well it is all done and dusted for Lynch now - the Broncos have officially moved Chad Kelly ahead of Lynch to No.2 on the depth chart. Lynch can spend the rest of pre-season throwing INTs and incompletions to camp fodder.

I would be shocked if Lynch is on the Broncos roster in Week 1 - Elway will try and trade him but will probably have to eat the $4.5million in dead money.

As regards the 'snide' remarks - like I said - it was a demonstration of the frustration that Lynch has not progressed one step since being drafted. He has been beaten out three times in a row by 7th round draft picks.

munstermagic11 wrote: »

Probably McDaniels fault.

Nope - drafting Lynch was all on Elway - he was looking for a big mobile QB with a strong arm (just like himself) unfortunately you need something between the ears as well. Elway claimed that Lynch blew him away in the interview (he made the same comment about Vance Joseph) - you have to wonder what questions he asked Lynch (and Joseph) to get 'blown away'.

As for McDaniels - well he has plenty of blame on his soldiers - of the two drafts he had with the Broncos only Bay-Bay turned out the money. With the exception of Eric Decker, there is no other draft pick of McDaniels currently with an NFL team (and Decker efforts this season will probably go into another Reality show of his time with the Pats). Decker only has dead cap of $75K so don't be surprised if the Pats cut him before the season starts given that he can't catch the ball.

Even the DT pick was a major risk because he was coming off a serious injury at the time and McDaniels picked him a lot higher than he needed to. McDaniels traded up with the Pats to draft him (and then gave up a pile of picks to trade back into the first round to take Tim Tebow). He to play Russian roulette with the draft picks (thinking he was BB) and got beat. On top of that it took a couple of years to clear the cast-offs from the Pats that he gave crackers money to sign with the Broncos.

j8wk2feszrnpao

Jolly Red Giant wrote: »

Nope - drafting Lynch was all on Elway

That’s where you should have stopped.
The rest, TLDR, but I’d imagine the obsession continues.

eagle eye

Jolly Red Giant wrote: »

Well it is all done and dusted for Lynch now - the Broncos have officially moved Chad Kelly ahead of Lynch to No.2 on the depth chart. Lynch can spend the rest of pre-season throwing INTs and incompletions to camp fodder.

I would be shocked if Lynch is on the Broncos roster in Week 1 - Elway will try and trade him but will probably have to eat the $4.5million in dead money.

As regards the 'snide' remarks - like I said - it was a demonstration of the frustration that Lynch has not progressed one step since being drafted. He has been beaten out three times in a row by 7th round draft picks.


Nope - drafting Lynch was all on Elway - he was looking for a big mobile QB with a strong arm (just like himself) unfortunately you need something between the ears as well. Elway claimed that Lynch blew him away in the interview (he made the same comment about Vance Joseph) - you have to wonder what questions he asked Lynch (and Joseph) to get 'blown away'.

As for McDaniels - well he has plenty of blame on his soldiers - of the two drafts he had with the Broncos only Bay-Bay turned out the money.

You are back to talking muck again.

These drafts were in 2009 and 2010. What is the average length for an NFL career? 3.3 years is the number, and a lot of his draft picks lasted a lot longer than that.

Most of these players are over 30 so it's no surprise that most of them are gone at this stage.
Robert Ayers was a decent player.
Zane Beadles is 31 and made the probowl.
J D Walton was a very good player up until he dislocated his ankle.
Perrish Cox was a good player too.

Knowshon Moreno was another good one but injuries finished him off.

Add Thomas and Decker to that list and it's decent enough.

the baby bull elephant

TOss Sweep wrote: »

Its stupidity on their part is what it is. They got a lemon and no team is going to give them anything for him. They should just cut him and take the hit.

2016 Draft was one of the worst drafts for QBs and the Broncos got sucked into taking Lynch.

Goff and Wentz headlining with Dak and Brisset as well would suggest it wasn't one of the worst drafts for QBs, even if the likes of Hackenberg and Lynch are complete and utter failures.

Jolly Red Giant

eagle eye wrote: »

You are back to talking muck again.

You are back to talking about stuff that you have little knowledge of.

eagle eye wrote: »

These drafts were in 2009 and 2010. What is the average length for an NFL career? 3.3 years is the number, and a lot of his draft picks lasted a lot longer than that.

The average is across the entire league - what is the career length of a first round pick ?

Its 9.3 years - of the four first rounders only one has come close - DT.

Lets look at the two drafts

2009
No. 12 pick - Knowshon Moreno - McDaniels drafted him to be the feature back and in his first three seasons he ran for a total of just over 2,000 yds - he started 2011 sharing carries with Willis McGahee but quickly lost his starting job to McGahee - he then suffered an ACL and McGahee rushed for 1,200. In his remaining two seasons with the Broncos he rushed for 1,200 yds and then left to the dolphins - he was out of the league by the time he was 27. Hardly the production you would expect from a No.12 pick.

No. 18 pick - Robert Ayers - nothing more than a journeyman DE - he was never anything more than a back-up on the rotation in Denver. He had one good year with the Giants and has done nothing since - nobody wants to sign him. Again - hardly the production you would expect from a No.18 pick

Now if the two first rounders were so-so - the meat of the 2009 draft were the next three picks

No. 37 Alphonso Smith - McDaniels traded a 2010 first round pick to Seattle for Smith (the Seahawks took Earl Thomas with the pick). Smith was an absolute donkey - he was so bad that McDaniels traded him to the Lions for Dan Gronkowksi (in 5 years in the NFL Grankowski had the sum total of 9 receptions for 69 yds and hardly saw the field with the Broncos).

No. 48 Darcel McBath - another donkey who bounced around a couple of teams before disappearing out of the league.

No. 69 Richard Quinn - the famous Richard Quinn that McDaniels called the second coming of Rob Gronkowski. McDaniels traded up for Quinn who had the sum total of 9 yards off 1 reception in his NFL career.

2010

No. 22 - Demaryius Thomas - McDaniels traded up for Thomas who was projected as a second rounder because he was coming off a serious injury - a first round talent but with major question marks over whether he would recover. DT has been fantastic for the Broncos over the years.

No. 25 Tim Tebow - remember him - projected at best a 3rd rounder although most scouts had him 6th or 7th round. McDaniels traded a 2, 3 and 4 to move up for Tebow. No more needs to be said about this one.

No. 45 - Zane Beadles - he has been decent for a 2nd round pick - he played well for the Broncos and for his subsequent teams.

No. 80 - JD Walton - a journeyman who started well and then went straight down-hill.

No. 87 - Eric Decker - a showboater who benefited massively from having Manning at QB. He was decent but nothing special.

eagle eye wrote: »

Perrish Cox was a good player too.

Perrish Cox was touted as a potential first rounder and had a rape allegation hanging over him when McDaniels drafted him - he wasn't good - he was okay and managed to bounce around a few teams before he was done.

McDaniels thought he could do a BB - trade pieces here, there and everywhere and strike gold - he was dealt a really good hand with the picks he got from the Cutler trade and he made a mess of things. Ignoring the later round picks - from the first three rounds in two years McDaniels managed to waste most of the picks - but even worse - he completely hollowed out the Broncos roster and left it pretty much devoid of talent. His shambolic handling of the Cutler trade demonstrated he hadn't a clue what he was doing - and then he went on to do his best to wreck the franchise - including getting up to his old tricks of taping an opponent during practice. The guy was (and still is) an arrogant, egotistical individual that I am delighted will never have anything to do with the Broncos again - and I expect that when he gets another HC gig so he will show himself up again.

j8wk2feszrnpao

Jolly Red Giant wrote: »

The guy was (and still is) an arrogant, egotistical individual.....

The irony....

TOss Sweep

JRG your Rose tinted glasses to try make everything Daniels did look bad.

Jolly Red Giant wrote: »

2009
No. 12 pick - Knowshon Moreno - McDaniels drafted him to be the feature back and in his first three seasons he ran for a total of just over 2,000 yds - he started 2011 sharing carries with Willis McGahee but quickly lost his starting job to McGahee - he then suffered an ACL and McGahee rushed for 1,200. In his remaining two seasons with the Broncos he rushed for 1,200 yds and then left to the dolphins - he was out of the league by the time he was 27. Hardly the production you would expect from a No.12 pick.

Injury ruined Moreno's career. Coaches can't be blamed for players being ruined by injury.

No. 18 pick - Robert Ayers - nothing more than a journeyman DE - he was never anything more than a back-up on the rotation in Denver. He had one good year with the Giants and has done nothing since - nobody wants to sign him. Again - hardly the production you would expect from a No.18 pick

3 teams in 9 seasons is hardly a journeyman. May not have been what people expected but he still had a very productive NFL career even with the Broncos. But hey not fitting your agenda though right?

No. 37 Alphonso Smith - McDaniels traded a 2010 first round pick to Seattle for Smith (the Seahawks took Earl Thomas with the pick). Smith was an absolute donkey - he was so bad that McDaniels traded him to the Lions for Dan Gronkowksi (in 5 years in the NFL Grankowski had the sum total of 9 receptions for 69 yds and hardly saw the field with the Broncos).

No. 48 Darcel McBath - another donkey who bounced around a couple of teams before disappearing out of the league.

No. 69 Richard Quinn - the famous Richard Quinn that McDaniels called the second coming of Rob Gronkowski. McDaniels traded up for Quinn who had the sum total of 9 yards off 1 reception in his NFL career.

Show me 1 coach who hasnt made bad picks in the draft..........

No. 22 - Demaryius Thomas - McDaniels traded up for Thomas who was projected as a second rounder because he was coming off a serious injury - a first round talent but with major question marks over whether he would recover. DT has been fantastic for the Broncos over the years.

Lets bold this to show all was not that bad

No. 25 Tim Tebow - remember him - projected at best a 3rd rounder although most scouts had him 6th or 7th round. McDaniels traded a 2, 3 and 4 to move up for Tebow. No more needs to be said about this one.

More playoff wins than most Bronocs QBs.......

No. 45 - Zane Beadles - he has been decent for a 2nd round pick - he played well for the Broncos and for his subsequent teams.

There we go so far 2010 not looking too bad

No. 80 - JD Walton - a journeyman who started well and then went straight down-hill.

Riddled with injuries

No. 87 - Eric Decker - a showboater who benefited massively from having Manning at QB. He was decent but nothing special.

Love it can't even give Decker praise. He has had a pretty solid career until injury with the Jets in 2016 and never really recovered in 2017 with the Titans. He has been a very productive WR but many choose to ignore than and like to write him off.

Huge signing for the team you have an obsession with if he can shake of the rust and give them what he gave the Broncos and Jets early on.

Perrish Cox was touted as a potential first rounder and had a rape allegation hanging over him when McDaniels drafted him - he wasn't good - he was okay and managed to bounce around a few teams before he was done.

Ended up having a solid last 3 seasons. Again though show me 1 coach who has drafted all quality and starters.

McDaniels thought he could do a BB - yadda yadda yadda

Sad thing for the Bronocs he probably will succeed Bill and win Bowls with the Team you are obsessed with. I for one hope that happens so we can come back to these posts and laugh

Jolly Red Giant

TOss Sweep wrote: »

JRG your Rose tinted glasses to try make everything Daniels did look bad.

Make McDaniels look bad ?

The guy nearly wrecked the franchise - he signed a bunch of crappy free agents, several of them Pats cast-offs to big contracts and he blew high picks in the draft.

He lost 8 of the last 10 games in 2009.

In the off-season he gutted the coaching staff - including the best assistant he had in Mike Nolan who wouldn't work with him anymore as well as losing one of the best RB coaches in the business in Bobby Turner. He promoted Dan Martindale to DC - and there has rarely been a worse DC in the business. He went off and signed another bunch of rubbish free agents to big contracts (including more Pats cast-offs) - and then he trade up into the first round to draft TIM TEBOW.

In 2010 he lost 8 of the 11 games he coached before being fired - with a prime reason the fact that his sidekick (the same guy involved when the Pats did the same thing in 2007) was caught videotaping a 49ers walk-through practice in London.

TOss Sweep wrote: »

Injury ruined Moreno's career. Coaches can't be blamed for players being ruined by injury.

Moreno was a run-of-the-mill RB - no more and no less - he was not a No.12 pick - he ran 4.60 for the 40yd at the combine and at his pro-day. He was slow, lumbering and couldn't hit the hole with any speed.

TOss Sweep wrote: »

3 teams in 9 seasons is hardly a journeyman. May not have been what people expected but he still had a very productive NFL career even with the Broncos. But hey not fitting your agenda though right?

Ayers was a first round draft pick who was never more than a back-up with the Broncos. He had one good season with the Giants and got a contract from the Bucs on the back of it - and even with that he was only guaranteed £3million a season - hardly the money you spend on a 'very productive' player. He was a journeyman - nothing more or less - and a wasted at a No.18

TOss Sweep wrote: »

Show me 1 coach who hasnt made bad picks in the draft..........

Show me a coach that consistently used high draft picks (and trading up to get them) to pick donkies - Smith, McBath, Quinn, Tebow

TOss Sweep wrote: »

Lets bold this to show all was not that bad

One player - and drafting DT was a major risk because of his injury - and he traded up to get him as well.

TOss Sweep wrote: »

More playoff wins than most Bronocs QBs.......

Seriously - how did it work out for the Pats when they signed him?

TOss Sweep wrote: »

There we go so far 2010 not looking too bad

Tim Tebow - first round - say no more.

TOss Sweep wrote: »

Riddled with injuries

He wasn't much good before that.

TOss Sweep wrote: »

Love it can't even give Decker praise. He has had a pretty solid career until injury with the Jets in 2016 and never really recovered in 2017 with the Titans. He has been a very productive WR but many choose to ignore than and like to write him off.

He was and is a prima donna who always had to be the centre of attention. He benefited from having Manning at QB and then cashed in with the Jets. We'll see how long BB can stand him before he's tossed out the door.

TOss Sweep wrote: »

Huge signing for the team you have an obsession with if he can shake of the rust and give them what he gave the Broncos and Jets early on.

Shake the rust - he can't catch a ball.

TOss Sweep wrote: »

Ended up having a solid last 3 seasons. Again though show me 1 coach who has drafted all quality and starters.

McDaniels should never have drafted Cox with the rape accusations against him (many accusations) - every team he has signed with has result in a fan backlash - however, if you think he was that 'solid' maybe you should call BB and get him to sign Cox.

TOss Sweep wrote: »

Sad thing for the Bronocs he probably will succeed Bill and win Bowls with the Team you are obsessed with.

TOss Sweep wrote: »

I for one hope that happens so we can come back to these posts and laugh

I really do hope he gets the gig - it will be a lot of fun watching him in action again - and it couldn't happen to a nicer team.

TOss Sweep

Jolly Red Giant wrote: »

blah blah blah I have bad dreams about McDaniels and it upsets me blah blah

Moreno was a run-of-the-mill RB - no more and no less - he was not a No.12 pick - he ran 4.60 for the 40yd at the combine and at his pro-day. He was slow, lumbering and couldn't hit the hole with any speed.

He was the number 2 ranked RB in the draft when he was drafted. You talk about him like he was some scrub that was drafted. He was projected to go high and that is where he went. Him and Shady McCoy were the two best backs in that Draft and the Broncos did the right thing taking Moreno. But hey dont let the facts get in the way of your McDaniels hating agenda.

Ayers was a first round draft pick who was never more than a back-up with the Broncos. He had one good season with the Giants and got a contract from the Bucs on the back of it - and even with that he was only guaranteed £3million a season - hardly the money you spend on a 'very productive' player. He was a journeyman - nothing more or less - and a wasted at a No.18

You love working off hindsight right? Ayers was top 5 Ranked end and the best fit for the Bronocs 3-4 Defense. He was arguably the best edge rusher in the draft that fit a 3-4 defense at the time. He went exactly where he should have gone and in fact many thought he would go earlier. But hey again letting the facts get away from you

Show me a coach that consistently used high draft picks (and trading up to get them) to pick donkies - Smith, McBath, Quinn, Tebow

I could show you many but we both know donkies are picked in the 1st round all the time as are busts. But hey again what is the current theme of your post?

One player - and drafting DT was a major risk because of his injury - and he traded up to get him as well.

Drafting in the NFL is a big risk in itself. Come on stop moving goalposts to suit your agenda

Seriously - how did it work out for the Pats when they signed him?

We didn't need a QB so who cares how it worked out but my post was in jest.

Tim Tebow - first round - say no more.

He wanted his future QB and got the 3rd best QB in the draft. What would you have rathered Colt McCoy? Jimmy Clausen? Besides what was it the 25th pick. Close to being a 2nd round pick at that point.

He wasn't much good before that.

2nd best Center in the draft and value in the 3rd.

He was and is a prima donna who always had to be the centre of attention. He benefited from having Manning at QB and then cashed in with the Jets. We'll see how long BB can stand him before he's tossed out the door.

Shake the rust - he can't catch a ball.

Oh the irony and what about Ryan Fitzpatrick? 962 and just over 1k yards with Fitzy with the Jets. Did he benefit from Fitzy also? In fact by your own logic going to the Pats means he benefits from Oh I dont know a guy called Tom Brady. You can't even rubbish a player properly without flawed logic.

McDaniels should never have drafted Cox with the rape accusations against him (many accusations) - every team he has signed with has result in a fan backlash - however, if you think he was that 'solid' maybe you should call BB and get him to sign Cox.

Wait didn't the sexual assault after he was drafted? And wasn't he subsequently found not guilty? Whoops on your part

I really do hope he gets the gig - it will be a lot of fun watching him in action again - and it couldn't happen to a nicer team.

Sure

D9Male

D9Male wrote: »

I know some of you guys are getting tired reading JRG's Broncos hype, but I am getting just as tired reading the response to it..

Maybe he gives as good as he gets but there seems to be a perpetual ganging up on JRG here.

I presume he was really mean about the Pats once...

TOss Sweep

Deleted User wrote: »

Maybe he gives as good as he gets but there seems to be a perpetual ganging up on JRG here.

I presume he was really mean about the Pats once...

Lets not turn this into something it isn't.

Jolly Red Giant

We could go around the houses on this - so my final comments on the draft picks of McDaniels

Knowshon Moreno might have been the no. 2 ranked back in the draft but he was - at best - a high second round pick (maybe the Cardinals might have taken him at 1.31) - McD drafted him at 1.12

Ayers was the no.5 ranked DE in the draft (based off one year as a college starter) - in a very weak class. Like Moreno he was - at best - a high second rounder - and McD used him as an OLB. His best season with the Giants he was used at DE.

TOss Sweep wrote: »

I could show you many but we both know donkies are picked in the 1st round all the time as are busts. But hey again what is the current theme of your

Drafting in the NFL is a big risk in itself. Come on stop moving goalposts to suit your agenda

Drafting is a crap shoot - but by the law of averages you get a few good players. Normally over a two year period a team has 4 picks in the first two rounds - McDaniels had 7 - and the one that he hit with, D. Thomas was a major risk because of injury. He way over-stretched for players, wasted picks trading up and then picked, for the most part, donkeys. Hell - even you would have done a better job than McDaniels.

TOss Sweep wrote: »

He wanted his future QB and got the 3rd best QB in the draft. What would you have rathered Colt McCoy? Jimmy Clausen? Besides what was it the 25th pick. Close to being a 2nd round pick at that point.

So - Tim Tebow was the 3rd best QB in the draft - and the 25th pick is nearly a 2nd rounder.

You have to love the attempt to justify that pick - for a 'QB' who wasn't actually a QB at all - and who couldn't throw a pass. Tebow was a great athlete - he wasn't an NFL QB - at best he would have gone in the 3rd but far more likely during 6-7 - and McDaniels trade up to take him in the first round.

Seriously - there has rarely been a bigger head-scratcher of a pick in the history of the NFL draft

TOss Sweep wrote: »

Wait didn't the sexual assault after he was drafted? And wasn't he subsequently found not guilty? Whoops on your part

There had been red flags about Cox using a date-rape drug since he was in college. The incident he was charged with was drugging and raping a woman that became pregnant and that occurred after the draft. Forensic test show she was drugged, testimony from Demaryius Thomas who was with this scumbag stated that he carried her to a bedroom while she was passed out and told Thomas 'she's ready' - and the guy denied having any sexual contact with her except DNA proved he was the father of her child.

Do you know the low level of convictions for rape? Cox's lawyers were able to manipulate testimony to claim that the victim was capable of reacting with people and consenting to have sex when she was drunk out of her skull and then claimed that she was up for it claiming Cox's girlfriend had some girl-on-girl action with her. The defence lawyer's approach was to claim that Cox was an NFL player and didn't need to rape anyone to have sex - with Cox claiming that he could have had sex with his girlfriend - all in the full knowledge that rape is not about sex, but about power. He muddied the waters just enough to get the guy off with a rape charge.

What is more damning is that neither the NFL nor the Broncos took any action against this scumbag. And that other teams gave him a contract afterwards.

Now - back to McDaniels - and I have detailed his antics in Denver before. Bowlen made a massive mistake hiring McDaniels. After firing Shanahan, Bowlen stated that he would never give a HC total control again - he then had what looked like a bout of dementia and did just what he said he wouldn't do. McDaniels ego was the size of the moon and he lapped it up believing he could do no wrong in trying to replicate the 'Patriot Way' in Denver. If the guy had any level of understanding he would have realised he was in over his head and asked for some help - but he didn't. Once things started to go wrong he blamed anyone and everyone except himself - and dumped anyone who didn't toe the line, getting rid of coaches and players he thought he couldn't trust. He crapped in the draft - he crapped in FA - he crapped with the coaches he hired when he gutted the coaching staff in 2010 - and he crapped on the team when his sidekick got up to his old cheating antics.

The only good thing about the McDaniels era in Denver was that the 4-12 season in 2010 led to the Broncos being able to draft Von Miller in 2011. While he was there he nearly wrecked the franchise and it took a long time to recover.

In my opinion McDaniels will never make a HC - he doesn't have the mentality for it. I think he would wreck any team he took over - including the Pats. I would not wish that on on any team and their fans - but if he is going to get a HC gig - then the Pats is the best place for him - he learned his trade there and they are the most appropriate team to suffer the consequences of his power-trip.

Are people claiming mcdaniels did a good job with the broncos?

TOss Sweep

Jolly Red Giant wrote: »

We could go around the houses on this - so my final comments on the draft picks of McDaniels

You will as you keep banging on about things I never brought up

Knowshon Moreno might have been the no. 2 ranked back in the draft but he was - at best - a high second round pick (maybe the Cardinals might have taken him at 1.31) - McD drafted him at 1.12

It really doesn't matter how we feel about a pick. He was the arguably the best RB back in the draft at the time and had the Broncos not taken him high someone else would have. Every scout report said he was a high to mid range draft pick in the 1st round. Same draft that saw Donald Brown and Beanie Wells go in the 1st round. Teams wanted Running Backs. Different times 10 years ago. But hey you know better than scouts 10 years on and with hindsight right?

Ayers was the no.5 ranked DE in the draft (based off one year as a college starter) - in a very weak class. Like Moreno he was - at best - a high second rounder - and McD used him as an OLB. His best season with the Giants he was used at DE.

Newsflash College is all the NFL teams have to go off. You know how drafts work right? Again here you are with your hindsight machine. Scout reports and NFL draft boards will disagree with you on where Ayers was touted to go at the time. But hey you know best

Drafting is a crap shoot - but by the law of averages you get a few good players. Normally over a two year period a team has 4 picks in the first two rounds - McDaniels had 7 - and the one that he hit with, D. Thomas was a major risk because of injury. He way over-stretched for players, wasted picks trading up and then picked, for the most part, donkeys. Hell - even you would have done a better job than McDaniels.

Like every other coach in the league. Problem is you hold the **** job he did as a coach over everything he did and in the end like any coach he picked what he wanted and got it wrong over time. Doesn't mean he was 100% wrong during the draft regardless of **** of a coach he turned out. You can pick all the right pieces and still be a sh1t coach

So - Tim Tebow was the 3rd best QB in the draft - and the 25th pick is nearly a 2nd rounder.

You have to love the attempt to justify that pick - for a 'QB' who wasn't actually a QB at all - and who couldn't throw a pass. Tebow was a great athlete - he wasn't an NFL QB - at best he would have gone in the 3rd but far more likely during 6-7 - and McDaniels trade up to take him in the first round.

Seriously - there has rarely been a bigger head-scratcher of a pick in the history of the NFL draft

Many debates on here about Tebow and I wont go into it. I personally thought he would fail. But here is the thing many didn't including some NFL scouts and coaches and many thought they could fix him. He was still touted to go in the 1st round though. And he was still considered the 3rd best QB in the draft at the time. So McDaniels took a shot on him. You can say what you want about McDaniels but he has proven himself as a solid QB coach and OC regardless of how **** he was as a HC at that time. Nothing wrong with reaching for a guy with a lot of upside if it could have possibly worked. But hey again lets live in the world of hindsight.

There had been red flags about Cox using a date-rape drug since he was in college. The incident he was charged with was drugging and raping a woman that became pregnant and that occurred after the draft. Forensic test show she was drugged, testimony from Demaryius Thomas who was with this scumbag stated that he carried her to a bedroom while she was passed out and told Thomas 'she's ready' - and the guy denied having any sexual contact with her except DNA proved he was the father of her child.

Really don't care about his rape case it was after the point I made and I could care less whether he was actually guilty or not. Probably is a scumbag but anyways his history in college never mentioned anything about "Carrying" date rape drugs around with him. In fact his question marks were Weed and Drink and being pulled over a few times under the influence. Red flags but not the end of the world. If you can show me a legit source that shows he had issues with Date Rape drugs in college before the draft I will take back everything I said. But legit sources not some Broncos forum or fluff piece.

Now - back to McDaniels -

No idea why you keep repeating all this. We get it Bronocs shouldn't have hired McDaniels etc etc etc He possibly stole candy from babies also or looked at people the wrong way yadda yadda yadda. I never questioned his body of work. you brought up draft picks and I picked them apart no pun intended.

TOss Sweep

Kaleb Immense Neanderthal wrote: »

Are people claiming mcdaniels did a good job with the broncos?

Not that I can see but JRG will continue to tell us how **** of a job he done anyways.

Jolly Red Giant

TOss Sweep wrote: »

Not that I can see

What are you arguing about them ? :rolleyes:

TOss Sweep

Jolly Red Giant wrote: »

What are you arguing about them ? :rolleyes:

Arguing? hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah Best not forget :rolleyes: but here let me quote my last paragraph in my last post about draft picks:

No idea why you keep repeating all this. We get it Bronocs shouldn't have hired McDaniels etc etc etc He possibly stole candy from babies also or looked at people the wrong way yadda yadda yadda. I never questioned his body of work. you brought up draft picks and I picked them apart no pun intended.

Jolly Red Giant

TOss Sweep wrote: »

It really doesn't matter how we feel about a pick. He was the arguably the best RB back in the draft at the time and had the Broncos not taken him high someone else would have. Every scout report said he was a high to mid range draft pick in the 1st round. Same draft that saw Donald Brown and Beanie Wells go in the 1st round. Teams wanted Running Backs. Different times 10 years ago. But hey you know better than scouts 10 years on and with hindsight right?

I watched the draft - everyone was saying that Arizona might take him at 1.31 - there was shock when McDaniels took him at 1.12

TOss Sweep wrote: »

Newsflash College is all the NFL teams have to go off. You know how drafts work right? Again here you are with your hindsight machine. Scout reports and NFL draft boards will disagree with you on where Ayers was touted to go at the time. But hey you know best

Again - I watched the draft - he was touted as the best of the rest after the four first rounders. Then rumours started circulating that McDaniels was taking him at 1.12. When they got over the shock of Moreno being the pick - they said that the Broncos might take him in the second.

TOss Sweep wrote: »

Like every other coach in the league. Problem is you hold the **** job he did as a coach over everything he did and in the end like any coach he picked what he wanted and got it wrong over time. Doesn't mean he was 100% wrong during the draft regardless of **** of a coach he turned out. You can pick all the right pieces and still be a sh1t coach

He would have been better off sticking a pin in the list than going the way he did - he was a sh*t coach and sh*t at drafting players (as well as being sh*t at signing FAs).

TOss Sweep wrote: »

Many debates on here about Tebow and I wont go into it. I personally thought he would fail. But here is the thing many didn't including some NFL scouts and coaches and many thought they could fix him. He was still touted to go in the 1st round though.

Seriously - where are you getting this bullsh*t from?

TOss Sweep wrote: »

And he was still considered the 3rd best QB in the draft at the time. So McDaniels took a shot on him. You can say what you want about McDaniels but he has proven himself as a solid QB coach and OC regardless of how **** he was as a HC at that time. Nothing wrong with reaching for a guy with a lot of upside if it could have possibly worked. But hey again lets live in the world of hindsight.

A solid QB coach yes - a good OC - yes - an evaluator of QB talent - definitely not.

TOss Sweep wrote: »

Really don't care about his rape case it was after the point I made and I could care less whether he was actually guilty or not. Probably is a scumbag but anyways his history in college never mentioned anything about "Carrying" date rape drugs around with him. In fact his question marks were Weed and Drink and being pulled over a few times under the influence. Red flags but not the end of the world. If you can show me a legit source that shows he had issues with Date Rape drugs in college before the draft I will take back everything I said. But legit sources not some Broncos forum or fluff piece.

Accusations were flying before the draft - it was one of the reasons he dropped to the fifth round where the Broncos picked him - if they hadn't he could well have gone undrafted.

TOss Sweep wrote: »

No idea why you keep repeating all this. We get it Bronocs shouldn't have hired McDaniels etc etc etc He possibly stole candy from babies also or looked at people the wrong way yadda yadda yadda. I never questioned his body of work. you brought up draft picks and I picked them apart no pun intended.

You picked apart nothing - McDaniels did a sh*te job of the two drafts he had in Denver. It was a replica of everything else he did in Denver - the draft cannot be isolated from his approach to FA, from his approach to his coaching staff, from his approach to hiring the cheat from the Pats. It was an overall package - and the package still exists.

TOss Sweep

Jolly Red Giant wrote: »

I watched the draft - everyone was saying that Arizona might take him at 1.31 - there was shock when McDaniels took him at 1.12

No you are 100% wrong here. "Everyone" were not saying saying he might drop to 31. In fact Brown and Wells were also being talked about being off the board before Wells even fell to Arizona.

Again - I watched the draft - he was touted as the best of the rest after the four first rounders. Then rumours started circulating that McDaniels was taking him at 1.12. When they got over the shock of Moreno being the pick - they said that the Broncos might take him in the second.

Wrong again.

He would have been better off sticking a pin in the list than going the way he did - he was a sh*t coach and sh*t at drafting players (as well as being sh*t at signing FAs).

Seriously - where are you getting this bullsh*t from?

This made me laugh. Just like your BS eh?

A solid QB coach yes - a good OC - yes - an evaluator of QB talent - definitely not.

You missed my point so I wont bother with this one.

Accusations were flying before the draft - it was one of the reasons he dropped to the fifth round where the Broncos picked him - if they hadn't he could well have gone undrafted.

So you have absolutely no proof showing he carried Date Rape pills around and that the Broncos should have known he was a potential rapist. Thought not. No shocker there.

You picked apart nothing - McDaniels did a sh*te job of the two drafts he had in Denver. It was a replica of everything else he did in Denver - the draft cannot be isolated from his approach to FA, from his approach to his coaching staff, from his approach to hiring the cheat from the Pats. It was an overall package - and the package still exists.

Again missed my point. I never mentioned his coaching role outside the draft. You made ridiculous claims about some of the draft picks and I countered them but you continue to read into something that isnt there.

Anyways have at it I enjoyed the good laugh. I look for ward to your next chapter in the world of the Broncos and Preseason

jack presley

So, pre season 2018 eh?

j8wk2feszrnpao

Deleted User wrote: »

Maybe he gives as good as he gets but there seems to be a perpetual ganging up on JRG here.

I presume he was really mean about the Pats once...

You mean the guy that's banned from the Pats thread. Yeah, just the once :rolleyes:
Not surprised you'd presumed that.

eagle eye

Jolly Red Giant wrote: »

You are back to talking about stuff that you have little knowledge of.
The average is across the entire league - what is the career length of a first round pick ?

Its 9.3 years - of the four first rounders only one has come close - DT.

Lets have a look at Elways first and second round picks then.



Von Miller - Great one, no question.

Rahim Moore - Not very good
Orlando Franlin - Already retired
Derek Wolfe - Decent
Brock Osweiler - Lmfao
Sylvester Williams - Ok

Montee Ball - Lmfao
Bradley Roby - Poor
Cody Lattimer - Lol
Shane Ray - Average at best
Ty Sambrailo - Jag
Paxton Lynch - Lmfao
Adam Gotsis - Lets give him a bit more time




I won't go any further than that because it's too early to call it with players who have only been there for a year.



Out of all those picks in the first and second round I'm seeing one great one, one decent one and three average.



I could be fair and say that Franklin was decent but you don't want to give any credit to JMcD for Moreno so I won't give any credit to Franklin.



Anyways based on Josh McDaniels two drafts against six of Elway's drafts I'd say that McDaniels did better.

JaMarcus

I've legitimately never heard of Ty Sambrailo.

Also, being fair, I think Derek Wolfe is a lot better than decent. He'd start for almost any team that needs a 3-4 DE. I think he's an excellent player that the stats don't do justice for.

TOss Sweep

JaMarcus wrote: »

I've legitimately never heard of Ty Sambrailo.

Also, being fair, I think Derek Wolfe is a lot better than decent. He'd start for almost any team that needs a 3-4 DE. I think he's an excellent player that the stats don't do justice for.

Wolfe is class would love him on the Pats defense

Molly

Bradley Roby is pretty good. Being harsh on Shane Ray also

Jolly Red Giant

eagle eye wrote: »

Lets have a look at Elways first and second round picks then.

Elway has consistently drafted for 'potential' in rounds 2-3 and everyone knows he's bad at it. Why he hasn't sacked the drunk hang-over from the McDaniels era - Matt Russell - is beyond me and every Broncos fan.

1st rounders -

2017 - Garrett Bolles - LT - (drafted for need) was decent last year but had a lot of penalties - in part because he had the brutal Max Garcia at OG beside him. This season he has Ron Leary and has made significant strides in camp. At worst he is a serviceable LT and could be relatively good (in a league that is scarce in terms of good LTs).

2016 - Paxton Lynch - QB - say no more - it is an awful pity that Jerry Jones didn't beat Elway to the punch. I'll be surprised if Lynch is still in the NFL next season. Kubiak didn't want Lynch - and it caused tension with Elway.

2015 - Shane Ray - OLB - Ray was decent in his rookie season, very good in his second season, missed half of last season with a wrist injury and played hurt when he did play. He is healthy now and is showing a major improvement in training camp.

2014 - Bradley Roby - CB - Roby has developed year-on-year since drafted and would have been a starting CB for most teams in the league for the past two years. He does have a tendency to take a chance and give up a big play - but has shown improved consistency over the past 12 months. Will be a major contributor this year.

2013 - Sylvester Williams - DT - had a good rookie season but didn't build on it. Was decent in the DL rotation and went to the Titans on a three year deal with $9.5million guaranteed. Poor value as a first rounder and was so-so when he played for the Broncos.

2012 - no pick

2011 - Von Miller - OLB - probably the best defensive player in the NFL at the moment.

Second rounders

2017 - DeMarcus Walker - DE - last year Joseph decided to move Walker to OLB and get him to lose weight. It was a big mistake. He has put the weight back on and will play DE this season. He has been showing significant improvement in camp. The jury is out - but the prospects are a lot better than his rookie season.

2016 - Adam Gotsis - DE - DL coach Bill Kohler lobbied for Gotsis - an Australian that didn't start playing American football seriously until he went to Georgia Tech in 2012. The guy has spectacular raw talent and is developing. The jury is out at the moment - but the likelihood is that he will grow under Kohler's tutelage.

2015 - Ty Sambrillo - OT - terrible pick

2014 - Cody Latimer - WR - terrible pick

2013 - Montae Ball - RB - terrible pick and every Broncos fan knew it - he was over-used in college and had nothing left in his legs by the time he was drafted.

2012 - Derek Wolfe - DE - has been excellent when he has been healthy. A blue collar guy who has been reliable and consistent. He has struggled a lot with injuries but still plays at a high level. an excellent pick for the Broncos at the spot.

2012 - Brock Osweiler - QB - this was a bad one. Despite that Osweiler stepped in for Manning in the SB season - winning three games - including a massive OT win against the Pats - and winning offensive player of the week for the win against the Bears. Without those wins the Broncos don't win the SB. Elway always seems to be taken in by tall QBs with a big arm.

2011 - Rahim Moore - S - was decent but gave up big plays - including one that cost the Broncos a spot in the SB. He never recovered from that mistake. Despite that the Texans gave him a 3 yr $12million deal. Was not value in the second round.

2011 - Orlando Franklin - OT/OG - despite what you say eagle - Franklin was excellent for the Broncos - starting at RT and then moving to RG. He was pretty good at RT and very good at RG for the Broncos. A grinder who was particularly good in the running game (and part of the reason why Moreno put up decent numbers in Denver). Franklin signed a big contract with the Chargers. He retired not because he wasn't good enough but because of nagging injuries and he wanted to spend more time with his family who stayed in Denver - he now works in Denver, including doing some work for the Broncos. A high character guy who is highly regarded by Broncos fans.


Now - I have never argued that Elway has done a good job drafting players. What he hasn't done most of the time is take players far higher than they should have gone. Practically all of his 1 and 2 picks were taken where they should have been with the exception of Lynch and Bolles (who probably could have been had 6-8 spots lower).

On top of that Elway has hit on some good ones in the later rounds (his 4-7 have been way better than 2-3) - people like Conor McGovern (starting OG this season), Will Parks (who will take over from Stewart at FS in the near future), Matt Paradis (starting C and one of the better ones), Malik Jackson, Danny Trevathan, Julius Thomas.

Where Elway has excelled is in securing FAs at value for money - starting with Payton Manning - Terence Knighton, Wes Welker, Louis Vasquez, brandon Marshall, Todd Davis, Emmanuel Sanders, Aquib Talib, TJ Ward, DeMarcus Ware, Darren Stewart, Ron Leary, Domata Peko, Marquette King and Case Keenum (and we will see if the last one works out).

He has also picked up the odd gem among UDFAs - Shaq Barrett, CJ Anderson - and - Chris Harris Jr.

On top of that - Elway had to rebuild the roster - sort out the cap problems left by McDaniels - and in 8 seasons has won a SB - been to another SB. He hired Fox at the right time who steadied the ship - he hired Kubiak at the right time and Kubiak does not get half enough credit for the job he did in winning the SB.

I think Elway made a massive mistake hiring Vance Joseph - the guy looks completely out of his depth. Of the 8-10 coaches he could have hired he picked what looks like the worst one. Most Broncos fans wanted Kyle Shanahan - but I nver thought that was a runner because Shanahan wanted too much control (and the Broncos have learned from what happened with McDaniels).

One major back-room move last season that is paying big dividends is the hiring of Gary Kubiak - Kubiak is now running the scouting and player recruitment (and his role will expand with the sad death of Ted Heckert). Kubiak's influence has already been shown with this years draft where there are potentially 4-7 starters for the Broncos over the next couple of years.

eagle eye wrote: »

I could be fair and say that Franklin was decent but you don't want to give any credit to JMcD for Moreno so I won't give any credit to Franklin.

Moreno was drafted way higher than he should have been - Franklin was drafted where he should have been - and Franklin was a much better player.

eagle eye wrote: »

Anyways based on Josh McDaniels two drafts against six of Elway's drafts I'd say that McDaniels did better.

Seriously - look at the length of career for the picks McDaniels made - and then compare it to Elway. Elway has not been good - but he beats McDaniels hands down.

In fairness your being very "glass half full" in that post where you where very "glass half empty" in the josh mcdaniels post

Jolly Red Giant

Kaleb Immense Neanderthal wrote: »

In fairness your being very "glass half full" in that post where you where very "glass half empty" in the josh mcdaniels post

How - I stated that Lynch was a terrible pick, Williams was iffy, and they jury is out on Bolles. That Sambrillo, Latimer, Bell and Osweiler were terrible picks, and the jury is out on Walker and Gotsis.

ealge said that Roby was 'poor' which is nonsense and he is under-estimating Ray and how good he is (Ray will be a FA and could leave after this season - he will get a big contract from some team in need of a pass rusher). He said he could say Franklin was decent but wouldn't - when Franklin was very good for the Broncos - similarly with Wolfe who has been far more than 'decent'. I would argue that eagle is consciously being critical in an attempt to undermine my valid criticism of McDaniels.

As I said above - Elway has been far from good at the draft - particularly in rounds 2-3. But he has not reached for most of his picks in the first two rounds and in terms of value has been significantly better than McDaniels (and way better in every other aspect of how he runs the Broncos). McDaniels picked players way above where they should have been selected - the most blatant one being Richard Quinn in the second round when most people thought Quinn was, at best, a 7th round prospect - and they were proven right.

TOss Sweep

Jolly Red Giant wrote: »

Moreno was drafted way higher than he should have been - Franklin was drafted where he should have been - and Franklin was a much better player.
.

Hilarious JRG Draft scout but hey since you seem to think they drafted him high based on your hindsight

http://walterfootball.com/draft2009matt.php

18. Denver Broncos: Knowshon Moreno, RB, Georgia

The Broncos have had no stability at the running back position since the days of Clinton Portis. Knowshon Moreno is a perfect fit for Josh McDaniels' offense, and he is too talented to be passed up on at this point. LaMont Jordan? J.J. Arrington? Correll Buckhalter? This team can't be serious. Don't get me wrong, I think people are going to start talking about Peyton Hillis as an All-Pro fullback, but more help is needed offensively in the running game.

http://www.draftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=65960&draftyear=2009&genpos=RB

Projected Round: 1 Stock: High: 12-20 Low: Late 1
Rated number 2 out of 145 RB's 15 / 2485 TOTAL

https://www.si.com/more-sports/2009/04/24/mock

16. San Diego ChargersKnowshon Moreno | Running back | Georgia

Tough call. San Diego has other needs and rates explosive UConn RB Donald Brown nearly as high. But Moreno satisfies the long-term need for an every-down back.

21) Philadelphia Eagles – needs: RB, TE, WR, S

Pick: Knowshon Moreno – RB, Georgia

Brian Westbrook remains one of the best backs in the league but he will turn 30 before the season starts and has never managed to stay healthy for an entire season. Moreno is powerful but also elusive and could even extend Westbrook's career by helping to share the load.

You seeing the Pattern yet? He was touted to go 1st Round. Bronocs wanted RB and took Moreno in the 1st round as they knew he wouldn't slip.

Comedy gold.

Jolly Red Giant

TOss Sweep wrote: »

Hilarious JRG Draft scout but hey since you seem to think they drafted him high based on your hindsight

http://walterfootball.com/draft2009matt.php




http://www.draftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=65960&draftyear=2009&genpos=RB



https://www.si.com/more-sports/2009/04/24/mock




You seeing the Pattern yet? He was touted to go 1st Round. Bronocs wanted RB and took Moreno in the 1st round as they knew he wouldn't slip.

Comedy gold.

Comedy gold is right - and I see you went to the trouble of googling mock drafts and scout reports - and I notice that you didn't include Ayers.

Hardly surprising however that you were selective in linking to the few that back up your claims - while ignoring the vast bulk mock drafts that didn't have Moreno, and particularly Ayers even being taken in the first round. And by the way - mocking Moreno at 28 is a hell of a difference from taking him at 12.

Your post really deserves this - because for someone who claims he doesn't give a sh*t you are sure spending an enormous amount of time trying to prove me wrong.

TOss Sweep

Jolly Red Giant wrote: »

TOss Sweep wrote: »

Hilarious JRG Draft scout but hey since you seem to think they drafted him high based on your hindsight

http://walterfootball.com/draft2009matt.php




http://www.draftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=65960&draftyear=2009&genpos=RB



https://www.si.com/more-sports/2009/04/24/mock




You seeing the Pattern yet? He was touted to go 1st Round. Bronocs wanted RB and took Moreno in the 1st round as they knew he wouldn't slip.

Comedy gold.

Comedy gold is right - and I see you went to the trouble of googling mock drafts and scout reports - and I notice that you didn't include Ayers.

Hardly surprising however that you were selective in linking to the few that back up your claims - while ignoring the vast bulk mock drafts that didn't have Moreno, and particularly Ayers even being taken in the first round. And by the way - mocking Moreno at 28 is a hell of a difference from taking him at 12.

Your post really deserves this - because for someone who claims he doesn't give a sh*t you are sure spending an enormous amount of time trying to prove me wrong.

Hilarious. Its fun because you flip flop all over the place. When someone shows you are wrong you move the goalposts away from your original post and then deflect. Truly hilarious stuff from you. Don't worry I'm sure a NFL team will be knocking on your door anytime soon so they can recruit your expertise and tell them how they should be drafting.

Comedy gold is right - and I see you went to the trouble of googling mock drafts and scout reports - and I notice that you didn't include Ayers.

This part cracked me up. All of the links I provided are pretty common sites and easy to find. But hey you wouldn't know that as you are an expert and don't need to read other peoples professional opinion on how to draft or where someone should be drafted or even where they are expected to be drafted. Clearly working out for you though.

This is tedious as **** can ye pm each other or something

TOss Sweep

Kaleb Immense Neanderthal wrote: »

This is tedious as **** can ye pm each other or something

My apologies I will refrain from taking the topic of course again. Sorry folks.

Knex*

New round of games tonight, and I expect starters will get a bit more game time. For some teams, anyway.

Anyone looking at anything in particular? Certain player, certain team, etc?

I've heard good things about the Giants OL in the joint practices vs the Lions, so that's an obvious, and very much ongoing point of observation.

I'm extremely worried about the Giants secondary, and depth at defense as a whole. So that's a concern.

For other teams, I'll be giving Baker Mayfield and Sam Darnold a watch again too.

the baby bull elephant

Knex. wrote: »

New round of games tonight, and I expect starters will get a bit more game time. For some teams, anyway.

Anyone looking at anything in particular? Certain player, certain team, etc?

I've heard good things about the Giants OL in the joint practices vs the Lions, so that's an obvious, and very much ongoing point of observation.

I'm extremely worried about the Giants secondary, and depth at defense as a whole. So that's a concern.

For other teams, I'll be giving Baker Mayfield and Sam Darnold a watch again too.

Lions defensive line is fairly woeful so I wouldn’t be getting too optimistic based of that.

phatkev

Knex. wrote: »

Anyone looking at anything in particular? Certain player, certain team, etc?

Darnold has been getting the majority of the 1st team snaps in training, so looking forward to see how he gets on with the 1st team offence and against Washingtons Defence

Knex*

the baby bull elephant wrote: »

Lions defensive line is fairly woeful so I wouldn’t be getting too optimistic based of that.

While that is very true, I'm pretty sure your d-line man handled us the past two years when we played.

Literally any improvement over that will excite Giant fans tbh.

Edit: Just checked. You guys got 5 sacks on us last year!

the baby bull elephant

Knex. wrote: »

While that is very true, I'm pretty sure your d-line man handled us the past two years when we played.

Literally any improvement over that will excite Giant fans tbh.

Edit: Just checked. You guys got 5 sacks on us last year!

Yeah fair enough. Three of those sacks were Ansah on Flowers though so those almost feel like they shouldn’t count haha.

Jolly Red Giant

Knex. wrote: »

New round of games tonight, and I expect starters will get a bit more game time. For some teams, anyway.

Anyone looking at anything in particular? Certain player, certain team, etc?

Broncos and the Bears are in joint practices - they play on Sat night.

Reports from practice indicate that that the Broncos offence owned the Bears with Emmanuel Sanders repeatedly embarrassing Kyle Fuller. Keenum completed a lot of passes to a host of receivers including Demaryius Thomas, De’Angelo Henderson, Jeff Heuerman, Phillip Lindsay and Tim Patrick. Roquan Smith participated for the Bears after ending his holdout.

The Broncos defence was also dominant except when Trubisky targeted his TEs - this was a major weakness for the Broncos last season and it looks like they are still trying to figure it out. The plan was to use Cravens to cover TEs - but he is still sitting out because of injury. Trubisky ended up just targeting TEs at one stage in 11-on-11 drills as he wasn't able to hit any other target. Von Miller was a wrecking ball even though he was only going at half-speed.

Chad Kelly struggled in his first day with the 2s - and the Bears 2nd offence bullied the Broncos 2nd D. Chase Daniel had a big day.

The Broncos starters will play into the second quarter on Sat night. I want to see the offence doing better than going 3 and out.

Jolly Red Giant

With McCarron injured it looks like Josh Allen is going to end up getting a lot of playing time over the next couple of weeks.

It will be interesting to see how he copes.

jack presley

Josh Gordon's back.

https://twitter.com/Browns/status/1030850168218968065

mikemac2

Looking like the Ravens may have three QBs in the 53 for the first time since 2009. Sure some teams do this a lot but some others always go with two

RGIII doing well and would be number 2 if the season started today

Maybe some team will come in for a trade. Jets with Bridgewater in the same situation

Itssoeasy

I have to say the highlights option on gamepass is very very handy especially in pre season, where lets be honest it's not all classics games. That function will be very helpful.

jack presley

Peterson to Washington.

https://twitter.com/NFLonFOX/status/1031611262805766145


What does he have left though? Hopefully more than he showed in NO and Arizona last season!

Jolly Red Giant

The Broncos finally cut one of the biggest wastes of space from John Elway's free agency signings - Menelik Watson has been placed on IR to be released when fit. The Broncos eat $6.5million in dead cap money. At least it frees up a roster spot.

And while I am talking about the Broncos - stats for Chad Kelly on Saturday - 7-9 for 90 yards with 1 TD and a rating of 142.5 and over his two pre-season outings 21-30 for 267 yds, 3 TD - 1 INT - 116.9

jack presley

Jolly Red Giant wrote: »

And while I am talking about the Broncos

Love it...!!!!

Jolly Red Giant

jack presley wrote: »

Love it...!!!!

I knew you would