Build Quality

KBD85

I have come across discussions in various forums where posters talk about build quality.

One conversation specifically referenced two estates beside eachother saying the build quality in Collinswood was not as good as the build quality in Elm Mount.

I'm not sure at all what people mean when they use build quality in the general sense that I see it used most often and would be interested to hear opinions on what this means to you and what you look for to determine the build quality of a property.

I've taken two examples of houses from daft where to the untrained eye both seem to be of similar build quality. How would you differentiate between the two?

Collinswood house: https://touch.daft.ie/dublin/houses-for-sale/whitehall/3-chestnut-court-collinswood-whitehall-dublin-1763857

Elm Mount house: https://touch.daft.ie/dublin/houses-for-sale/beaumont/6-elm-mount-crescent-beaumont-dublin-1610996

An_Toirpin

KBD85 wrote: »

I have come across discussions in various forums where posters talk about build quality.

One conversation specifically referenced two estates beside eachother saying the build quality in Collinswood was not as good as the build quality in Elm Mount.

I'm not sure at all what people mean when they use build quality in the general sense that I see it used most often and would be interested to hear opinions on what this means to you and what you look for to determine the build quality of a property.

I've taken two examples of houses from daft where to the untrained eye both seem to be of similar build quality. How would you differentiate between the two?

Collinswood house: https://touch.daft.ie/dublin/houses-for-sale/whitehall/3-chestnut-court-collinswood-whitehall-dublin-1763857

Elm Mount house: https://touch.daft.ie/dublin/houses-for-sale/beaumont/6-elm-mount-crescent-beaumont-dublin-1610996

I can't help much but if you could get a BER expert to look at the actual BER report details they might be able to give some info for example airtightness results from the blow test if there is one.

Caranica

You need to visit the houses. Look at finish, see how well doors close. Find out about sound proofing. Look at quality and finish of fixtures and fittings. That sort of thing varies hugely.

KBD85

Caranica wrote: »

You need to visit the houses. Look at finish, see how well doors close. Find out about sound proofing. Look at quality and finish of fixtures and fittings. That sort of thing varies hugely.

Would doors and light switches not be minor things?

I assumed people were talking about the structure of the house.

pxdf9i5cmoavkz

/offtopic

Where does the practice of having the fireplace the focal point of the living room come from and why does the chimney breast have to square out of the wall so damn far?

It's the one thing that perplexes me about Irish houses.

davo10

Build quality can range from the design/layout of the house, to how it was built, to materials used and quality of the finish i.e. Joinery/ware/tiling etc. If the quality of what is obvious when you look inside the house is bad e.g. Doors poorly hung, poor plastering, cheap sockets, lights don't work etc, chances are that what you can't see, is equally bad or worse.

Claw Hammer

One thing to look at in comparing houses is whether the internal dividing walls are solid or stud. Another thing to look for is whether the attic timbers are cut, or came pre-assembled. These are features which simply cannot be re-engineered. Other things to look at whether or not there are floorboards on the ground floor or it is concrete. There may also be an issue as to whether the internal surface walls are properly skimmed or are just painted dry lining. Other less obvious points to look at whether or not copper pipe was used are whether some cheap pipe was used. Never judge a book by the cover!

davo10

Claw Hammer wrote: »

One thing to look at in comparing houses is whether the internal dividing walls are solid or stud. Another thing to look for is whether the attic timbers are cut, or came pre-assembled. These are features which simply cannot be re-engineered. Other things to look at whether or not there are floorboards on the ground floor or it is concrete. There may also be an issue as to whether the internal surface walls are properly skimmed or are just painted dry lining. Other less obvious points to look at whether or not copper pipe was used are whether some cheap pipe was used. Never judge a book by the cover!

I wouldn't be at all concerned about stud patricians, in fact they allow for easy redesign later if you want.

awec

davo10 wrote: »

I wouldn't be at all concerned about stud patricians, in fact they allow for easy redesign later if you want.

I think he means between adjoining houses.

My guess is concrete walls between houses are not as common these days.

davo10

awec wrote: »

I think he means between adjoining houses.

My guess is concrete walls between houses are not as common these days.

I suspect dividing walls between semi d's are load baring, can't imagine many are stud, internal dividing walls that aren't load baring are often stud. CH referred to internal dividing.

An_Toirpin

davo10 wrote: »

Claw Hammer wrote: »

One thing to look at in comparing houses is whether the internal dividing walls are solid or stud. Another thing to look for is whether the attic timbers are cut, or came pre-assembled. These are features which simply cannot be re-engineered. Other things to look at whether or not there are floorboards on the ground floor or it is concrete. There may also be an issue as to whether the internal surface walls are properly skimmed or are just painted dry lining. Other less obvious points to look at whether or not copper pipe was used are whether some cheap pipe was used. Never judge a book by the cover!

I wouldn't be at all concerned about stud patricians, in fact they allow for easy redesign later if you want.

Maybe you'd make an exception for dib and dab plaster board?

Sleeper12

An_Toirpin wrote:

Maybe you'd make an exception for dib and dab plaster board?

I'd be more concerned about the houses that don't have the plasterboard plastered. That's a big difference in build quality right there

Claw Hammer

davo10 wrote: »

I wouldn't be at all concerned about stud patricians, in fact they allow for easy redesign later if you want.

It would be very unusual to remodel internally. Stonewall's between bedrooms, and between bedrooms and bathrooms allow for noise and smells to travel.

davo10

Claw Hammer wrote: »

It would be very unusual to remodel internally. Stonewall's between bedrooms, and between bedrooms and bathrooms allow for noise and smells to travel.

Actually in new builds, alterations to internal spaces is quite common, I've done it myself in a few properties to make living areas more open plan. It is a long time since I saw a new build in an estate with all block internal walls.

Samuel T. Cogley

Surely this is divined by doing that knock knock thing on walls. :pac:

Claw Hammer

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

Surely this is divined by doing that knock knock thing on walls. :pac:

Some people use their head.

KBD85

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

Surely this is divined by doing that knock knock thing on walls. :pac:

I take it you don't work in the construction industry:)

KBD85

Any books or videos that someone could recommend on this topic?

Bigmac1euro

My Aunt lives in collinswood since they were built or shortely after.
My friend lived In Collinswood too.
I live near the area. I spent pretty much every weekend in my friends house when his parent were away.
I have some friends who live in elm Mount also.


The houses in Collinswood are built extremely badly!
Beware. Catchy on the eye. But we put a hole in his wall extremely easily. The interior walls are like paper.
The walls separating dividing houses are like cardboard.
You can hear the neighbours as if they are in the next room and I’m not exaggerating that.
The walls are so thin and the actual house is built to extremely bad standard and you’d swear they were just thrown up.

On the other hand the elm mount houses are lovely. Spacious but not as nice on the outside but far more sturdier and better soundproofing etc.
I would be looking at elm mount to be honest.
No cardboard walls
No paper interior walls.
Much nicer area too, although the houses are slightly older.
Seems to be a pretty quiet area with not much trouble.

Collinswood on the other hand is a mixed bag.
Go with elm mount.
I’m looking at buying around elm mount, beamont and possibly Santry and every time I see Collinswood I laugh because the houses were probably built for 25,000 that’s how bad the materials are.
Safe to say I skip over them. Excuse my typing and spellings I’m on my phone here. Brutal forum for the phone.

Glass fused light

The design is very important, i remember one celtic tigher build where the designed was disgraceful and that the plannners passed it was worse. A kitchen at the front smaller than the wheelchair bathroom. The toliet was piped in such a way that you could never install a shower or convert to a wet room.

The other factor is the long term maintenance and the ability to upgrade windows etc

KBD85 wrote: »

Any books or videos that someone could recommend on this topic?

This book was pretty good in explaining the technical bits for some of the build methods I dont know if the last publication would have the most up-to-date regs and standards but it's a good starting point
https://www.homebond.ie/home_builders/publications/

Marvin Eager Clam wrote: »

/offtopic

Where does the practice of having the fireplace the focal point of the living room come from and why does the chimney breast have to square out of the wall so damn far?

It's the one thing that perplexes me about Irish houses.

In the old days it provided both heat and light to back up your candle.
Here is the technical spec that they should be built to
https://www.housing.gov.ie/sites/default/files/migrated-files/en/Publications/DevelopmentandHousing/BuildingStandards/FileDownLoad%2C1650%2Cen.pdf

davo10

Glass fused light wrote: »

The design is very important, i remember one celtic tigher build where the designed was disgraceful and that the plannners passed it was worse. A kitchen at the front smaller than the wheelchair bathroom. The toliet was piped in such a way that you could never install a shower or convert to a wet room.

The other factor is the long term maintenance and the ability to upgrade windows]

Re the bathroom, the pipe/electrics in a bathroom are usually standard, but a buyer can alter design/spec at time of build, I don't know if you have ever tried to install an electric shower or convert to a wet room, but it is never easy, no matter how well the house is built. In fact, the biggest issue with a shower is the electric supply which has to be tracked back directly to fuse box, that is a heck of a lot easier to do if the walls are stud. Wet rooms involve taking up every floor and wall tile in the area for tanking/sealing and the waste must likely has to be repositioned to allow for drainage slope, so build quality does not come into that, concrete walls/floors make those jobs even more difficult.

bleary

From the bee, the Collingwood were built in the 90s . The others in elm mount were built in the 70s. Generally early 90s wasn't a fantastic to.e for build quality in ireland

davo10

bleary wrote: »

From the bee, the Collingwood were built in the 90s . The others in elm mount were built in the 70s. Generally early 90s wasn't a fantastic to.e for build quality in ireland

I would think build quality issues apply more to newish houses, 10 years or less, that's why home bond covers this period for structural defects. After 30-50 years, can you really be critical of build quality? Building regs and materials were different then to now, the original windows/kitchen etc are hardly going to be up to the standards expected today, that's not poor build quality, it's just outdated.

An_Toirpin

One Irish conservation architect actually tried to test energy efficiency of a Georgian Dublin townhouse and he produced an impressive score. If a period house is very well maintained you can end up with a reasonably efficient house. You cant really assume anything. One really needs to apply objective measures like blown tests etc.