Why the north outside EU changes everything for the island

blinding

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

The passport controls at the border will be pure entertainment gold.

The South East of Englanders ( the money suppliers ) will get out of Dodge if it even looks like getting messy ; Wouldn’t You ?

steddyeddy

blinding wrote: »

If all or most of the Oil and Gas was not gone then I think the Scots would have gone but unless they find a heap of something like that I don’t think they have the confidence to go it alone . The Eu didn’t exactly go out on a limb for Catalonia ; Ok , Spain and Catalonia are in the Eu so there was the upsetting of the Spanish applecart ( in the Eu) to consider .

But what will the UK have out of the single market?

blinding

steddyeddy wrote: »

But what will the UK have out of the single market?

We will have to wait perhaps 3 years to see what is going to happen especially if the Brits leave without a deal . I’d say this is very unlikely especially if the Eu has Ireland’s interests at heart .

Folkstonian

steddyeddy wrote: »

NIMAN wrote: »

I think most Brexiters think they still have an empire.

Well the vote came about as a result of nationalistic falsehoods about the country's ability to go it alone. A misplaced sense of superiority was involved. We shouldn't forget though that the majority of voters in Northern Ireland voted to remain.

I voted to remain and a Brexit of any kind that involves leaving the single market may present a bit of difficulty for me in my job, but in the interest of balance I’m not sure I heard many people cite the argument that Britain was inherently better than this country or any other.

It was more that, rightly or wrongly, they didn’t think the EU was working for them and wanted to go in a different direction to people in other European countries vis a vis closer political union, neoliberal economic policy etc

Maybe it’s just me but it comes across as a disingenuous sneer when you agree with posters who say Brits believe they are still an imperial power. I don’t think anyone fails to recognise that the age of European empires has ended.

For what it’s worth, in theory it was probably very possible for Britain (or anyone) to go it alone outside the EU. It was in practice with the conservatives at the helm that the wheels fell off.

The knee jerk declaration of Article 50 of Lisbon without any level of analysis and planning is what is unforgivable to me, not the ambition to leave the EU in itself.

I’m not sure where it goes from here. I don’t have any particular passion for politics normally and nor do most people I know and associate with, but I don’t get the feeling that there is a particular appetite for a re-run of the referendum. I’m desensitised and largely apathetic, as, probably, are most people in the part of England I’m from originally!

Taytoland

Peregrinus wrote: »

Taytoland wrote: »

Scotland leaving the Union would also be leaving the EU.

Scotland leaving the UK would already have left the EU.  Leaving the UK would open up the possibility of rejoining the EU. And, while there's no guarantees, in the circumstances there would be a very favourable wind blowing from Brussels.  

Taytoland wrote: »

They would also be changing from the pound to the Euro . . . The idea that Scotland would be allowed to leave the UK and use the pound and still be in the EU is fantasy.

I'm not sure that it is.  How, exactly, would the UK stop an independent Scotland from linking its currency to sterling?  Why, indeed, would they want to?  True, adopting the euro is a requirement for joining the EU, but in the circumstances the EU might be surprisingly flexible about making an exception.  There's a point to be made about the difference between accommodating a country that wants to leave, and a country that wants to join.

Besides, a link to sterling after a crash-out Brexit may not be all that great.  If they did adopt the euro, what exactly would they be losing out on?  Either way, they get a currency over which they have little control.  Given that, why choose sterling?

The EU is notoriously inflexible. They have clear lines on many issues and rarely if ever budge on them. So absolutely no guarantees on Scotland joining the EU.

bear1

What I'm curious about is that the north gets What, 10 billion a year to stay afloat?
How much does the UK in general receive from the eu?
Once they leave I'm struggling to see how they will manage to keep pumping that kind of money into the place without causing serious upset with their books.

blinding

bear1 wrote: »

What I'm curious about is that the north gets What, 10 billion a year to stay afloat?
How much does the UK in general receive from the eu?
Once they leave I'm struggling to see how they will manage to keep pumping that kind of money into the place without causing serious upset with their books.

The Uk has always given more money to the Eu than it receives . There never has been any Eu money spent in the UK . In any case the Eu has absolutely no Money .

Taytoland

blinding wrote: »

bear1 wrote: »

What I'm curious about is that the north gets What, 10 billion a year to stay afloat?
How much does the UK in general receive from the eu?
Once they leave I'm struggling to see how they will manage to keep pumping that kind of money into the place without causing serious upset with their books.

The Uk has always given more money to the Eu than it receives . There never has been any Eu money spent in the UK . In any case the Eu has absolutely no Money .

The EU "money" is British money. It's British tax payers pumping money into it.

blinding

Taytoland wrote: »

The EU "money" is British money. It's British tax payers pumping money into it.

Agreed . The Eu has absolutely no Money . Where would it get its own Money .

Junkyard Tom

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Unionists might even fancy the idea of a union with Scotland, back inside the EU...

Strabanimal wrote: »

You overrated the Scottish-NI unionist relationship.

Unionists are a minority with no veto to prevent a United Ireland and no mandate for union with Scotland. There's nothing unionists can do to reverse a pro-UI vote and they know it.

steddyeddy

Taytoland wrote: »

The EU "money" is British money. It's British tax payers pumping money into it.

A hard Brexit is estimated to cost Britain 10% of its economy. Let's see if the damage to Britain's economy is greater than 350 million a week and then we'll see if it's worth it.

Taytoland

steddyeddy wrote: »

Taytoland wrote: »

The EU "money" is British money. It's British tax payers pumping money into it.

A hard Brexit is estimated to cost Britain 10% of its economy. Let's see if the damage to Britain's economy is greater than 350 million a year and then we'll see if it's worth it.

You mean a week and let's wait and see.

titan18

We'd get to vote on the North rejoining the South wouldnt we? Other than the romantic notions of an United Ireland, I really don't see why we'd want them.

bear1

titan18 wrote: »

We'd get to vote on the North rejoining the South wouldnt we? Other than the romantic notions of an United Ireland, I really don't see why we'd want them.

Both sides have to agree.

titan18

bear1 wrote:

Both sides have to agree.

Referendum though or a Dail vote? I'd hope for the first really.

bear1

titan18 wrote: »

Referendum though or a Dail vote? I'd hope for the first really.

Referendum.

kingbhome

titan18 wrote: »

We'd get to vote on the North rejoining the South wouldnt we? Other than the romantic notions of an United Ireland, I really don't see why we'd want them.

Because our people have been fighting for independence for over 800 years. Its just not about short term economic gains or losses!!!!! It sickens me reading crap from fellow Irish men and women about "wanting them". They are us and we are them. Not this crap about wanting them!!!!

kingbhome

titan18 wrote: »

Referendum though or a Dail vote? I'd hope for the first really.

There would be a massive yes vote all over this island when it happens!

titan18

kingbhome wrote:

Because our people have been fighting for independence for over 800 years. Its just not about short term economic gains or losses!!!!! It sickens me reading crap from fellow Irish men and women about "wanting them". They are us and we are them. Not this crap about wanting them!!!!

So, those are the romantic notions.

prinzeugen

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

The passport controls at the border will be pure entertainment gold.

There wont be passport controls though for UK or Irish nationals.

The CTA predates the EU and will still exist after brexit. Worst case will be checks like you get on a Dublin - Holyhead ferry.

The only way passport checks will happen on the NI border is if the ROI rolls over to EU demands/threats and joins the Shengen area.

bear1

prinzeugen wrote: »

There wont be passport controls though for UK or Irish nationals.

The CTA predates the EU and will still exist after brexit. Worst case will be checks like you get on a Dublin - Holyhead ferry.

The only way passport checks will happen on the NI border is if the ROI rolls over to EU demands/threats and joins the Shengen area.

I wish they did tbh

prinzeugen

bear1 wrote: »

I wish they did tbh

I predict it will happen in the next 10 years if the migrant situation in Italy/Austria/Germany has not killed Schengen first.

The EU will bully/threaten or blackmail the ROI into it even although it do the Isle of Ireland more harm than good.

And nobody here will have the balls to tell Brussels to feck off.

bear1

prinzeugen wrote: »

I predict it will happen in the next 10 years if the migrant situation in Italy/Austria/Germany has not killed Schengen first.

The EU will bully/threaten or blackmail the ROI into it even although it do the Isle of Ireland more harm than good.

And nobody here will have the balls to tell Brussels to feck off.

Couple of weeks ago i drove through Austria up towards Munich and on the German side there were checks on the border.
Hungary already doing it too so it's a matter of time I think as well.

The Rape of Lucretia

ToddyDoody wrote: »

Wasn't there once a time when the repubic was the backwater?

Its still a bit of a back water to be fair. It struggles to run itself responsibly, shows great immaturity in its ability to move beyond parish pump politics, boom and bust cycles, and novelty act joke TDs from backwoods within the backwater, like Kerry.
It certainly lagged embarrassingly, long after Lemass, and right up to the late 90s in income and industrial development. Even now, being propped up by a handful of foreign multinationals to an unhealthy degree, leaves it very vulnerable to a quick downturn. Its a backwater like NI all right.
If the two had any sense, they would join together as part of the UK, giving the island considerably more clout, preserving the unity of the island economically, socially, and day to day practicality, against the Brexit threat.
The republic's willingness to look the other way and let the six jump off a cliff alone while being rogered by Westminster, rather than stand with it and live up to a hundred years rhetoric about unity on the island is staggering hypocrisy.

bear1

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

Its still a bit of a back water to be fair. It struggles to run itself responsibly, shows great immaturity in its ability to move beyond parish pump politics, boom and bust cycles, and novelty act joke TDs from backwoods within the backwater, like Kerry.
It certainly lagged embarrassingly, long after Lemass, and right up to the late 90s in income and industrial development. Even now, being propped up by a handful of foreign multinationals to an unhealthy degree, leaves it very vulnerable to a quick downturn. Its a backwater like NI all right.
If the two had any sense, they would join together as part of the UK, giving the island considerably more clout, preserving the unity of the island economically, socially, and day to day practicality, against the Brexit threat.
The republic's willingness to look the other way and let the six jump off a cliff alone while being rogered by Westminster, rather than stand with it and live up to a hundred years rhetoric about unity on the island is staggering hypocrisy.

Load of ****e.

Hotblack Desiato

Deleted User wrote: »

This is ahistorical drivel, albeit popular among people on Boards.ie who enjoy all that right-on ahistorical drivel where de Valera is equivalent to the Great Satan.

It takes a very special kind of genius to start a trade war with your country's by far the largest trading partner in the middle of the Great Depression.

Then in the 50s and early 60s he was hanging around with the smell of death off him when it was clear he didn't have a clue in what direction to lead the country, so he did nothing for years basically. Hundreds of thousands saw no future here and emigrated, when the rest of Europe was seeing the greatest boom in history our economy was stagnating for years.

Yes he kept us out of the Second World War but anyone could have done the same, and that was Dev's favourite kind of decision - inaction. He did great damage to the country with most of the few actions he did take.

Taytoland wrote: »

The detail was put to the Scottish people in 2014 and the Scottish Independence argument on the economy didn't stand up and it got destroyed in the poll. It wasn't even close. Leaving the EU will not change the fundamental issues on Scottish Independence and how they would be able to do it without implementing huge austerity measures and currency issues by leaving the pound. 

At the time I remember someone saying it would take years and years for any transforming from the Act of Union to Scottish Independence. Economically it's just not there. I think this talk of Scottish Independence is lalaland.

This post is at odds with reality. The Scottish independence vote was close enough. Shouldn't a 45% vote to break up the UK worry you? If 45% of people in any part of my country voted to leave, I'd be bloody worried.

One of the main arguments used against Scottish independence was the threat that they might not be allowed to stay in the EU. Vote No to stay in the EU, they said... how's that worked out?

The pound sterling is not some sort of guarantee of wealth. Looking at the equivalent euro exchange rate, the old Irish pound is now worth substantially more than sterling - in 1978 they were equal.

Says it all about the decline of the UK over the last 40 years, which will now only accelerate.

People used to say that Irish independence was lalaland, too.

Incredible that the Tories, not content with almost breaking up the UK in 2014, then went on to vote to wreck their economy in 2016. You'd be forgiven for thinking that Cameron was some sort of Russian or Chinese agent. Proof that the finest English education that money can buy is no guarantee against being a complete idiot. But what does the likes of him or Boris or Rees-Mogg care? They'll still be rich whatever happens.

Taytoland wrote: »

Scotland leaving the Union would also be leaving the EU. They have no guarantees they would get back in relatively soon whatsoever.

No but the desire to be a member goes a long way, plus they will have the goodwill of the EU27, and the acquis (European community law) is already in place, which is much more than any new entrant to the EU has ever had before.

They would also be changing from the pound to the Euro.

Only if they want to. You can't stop anyone from using a currency. We used the pound sterling (in effect) for 56 years without being part of the UK. There are countries using the euro today which are not members of the EU. Zimbabwe uses US dollars as legal tender, it is not part of the USA. Why would changing to the euro be a bad thing for Scotland, anyway?

One of the key foundations of the Scottish Independence movement in 2014 was North sea oil. What they didn't tell you is it is rapidly disappearing. By 2030s -2050s it will be finished. They put a lot of emphasis on something which in a few generations time won't matter a jot as it will be gone.

They still have vast amounts of hydro power and great potential with wind and tidal power. Scotland is and will remain an exporter of energy (and water - something the increasingly populous and dry SE of England might want to consider)

Taytoland wrote: »

The EU is notoriously inflexible. They have clear lines on many issues and rarely if ever budge on them. So absolutely no guarantees on Scotland joining the EU.

Really, because in the run-up to the referendum and since the brexiteers have been saying how weak and therefore flexible the EU is. How's that working out for you?

prinzeugen wrote: »

There wont be passport controls though for UK or Irish nationals.

Try flying into Dublin Airport from Britain sometime soon. For years there have been passport controls to prove that you are a CTA citizen who doesn't need to go through passport controls...

prinzeugen

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

It takes a very special kind of genius to start a trade war with your country's by far the largest trading partner in the middle of the Great Depression.

Then in the 50s and early 60s he was hanging around with the smell of death off him when it was clear he didn't have a clue in what direction to lead the country, so he did nothing for years basically. Hundreds of thousands saw no future here and emigrated, when the rest of Europe was seeing the greatest boom in history our economy was stagnating for years.

Yes he kept us out of the Second World War but anyone could have done the same, and that was Dev's favourite kind of decision - inaction. He did great damage to the country with most of the few actions he did take.




This post is at odds with reality. The Scottish independence vote was close enough. Shouldn't a 45% vote to break up the UK worry you? If 45% of people in any part of my country voted to leave, I'd be bloody worried.

One of the main arguments used against Scottish independence was the threat that they might not be allowed to stay in the EU. Vote No to stay in the EU, they said... how's that worked out?

The pound sterling is not some sort of guarantee of wealth. Looking at the equivalent euro exchange rate, the old Irish pound is now worth substantially more than sterling - in 1978 they were equal.

Says it all about the decline of the UK over the last 40 years, which will now only accelerate.

People used to say that Irish independence was lalaland, too.

Incredible that the Tories, not content with almost breaking up the UK in 2014, then went on to vote to wreck their economy in 2016. You'd be forgiven for thinking that Cameron was some sort of Russian or Chinese agent. Proof that the finest English education that money can buy is no guarantee against being a complete idiot. But what does the likes of him or Boris or Rees-Mogg care? They'll still be rich whatever happens.




No but the desire to be a member goes a long way, plus they will have the goodwill of the EU27, and the acquis (European community law) is already in place, which is much more than any new entrant to the EU has ever had before.



Only if they want to. You can't stop anyone from using a currency. We used the pound sterling (in effect) for 56 years without being part of the UK. There are countries using the euro today which are not members of the EU. Zimbabwe uses US dollars as legal tender, it is not part of the USA. Why would changing to the euro be a bad thing for Scotland, anyway?



They still have vast amounts of hydro power and great potential with wind and tidal power. Scotland is and will remain an exporter of energy (and water - something the increasingly populous and dry SE of England might want to consider)




Really, because in the run-up to the referendum and since the brexiteers have been saying how weak and therefore flexible the EU is. How's that working out for you?




Try flying into Dublin Airport from Britain sometime soon. For years there have been passport controls to prove that you are a CTA citizen who doesn't need to go through passport controls...

The SNP wanted the referendum in 2014 and it was allowed by the coalition government. It failed as we know.

The SNP will be wiped out in the next lot of elections as the majority of Scots are sick of the bullcrap that they keep spouting.

And if you fly Ryanair, yes you need a passport. I fly Aer Lingus and my full Irish driving licence is enough. Irish licence, place of birth, UK. Quick glance and a on you go sir in Dublin airport.

And flights from Ireland to the UK and back are treated as domestic flights anyway.

Atlantic Dawn

I laugh at the fools being sold a free border for movement, are these people thick?

Hotblack Desiato

prinzeugen wrote: »

The SNP will be wiped out in the next lot of elections as the majority of Scots are sick of the bullcrap that they keep spouting.

That's a fantastic crystal ball you have there.

And flights from Ireland to the UK and back are treated as domestic flights anyway.

As far as Dublin Airport is concerned, there is no such thing as domestic flights. You wouldn't have had to go through immigration if there was, but you did.

prinzeugen

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

I laugh at the fools being sold a free border for movement, are these people thick?

Its happened since the CTA came into being. Are you one of the thicks that think a hard Britex means walls, barbed wire and watch towers like they had on the inner German border before socialism/communism failed in the East in 1989?

Get a grip and get real. That twat Tony Connolly on RTE would have people think a new Berlin wall is about to go up.

Not one of the Irish media outlets has mentioned the CTA. Just the "EU good, Britex bad", "Hard border" etc.

prinzeugen

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

That's a fantastic crystal ball you have there.

Save this because I will quote when the next elections are on in the UK.

I buy British crystal balls. The one you have must be faulty and subject to a product recall if its from lidly aldi lee.

They only predict a good outcome for the EU while my faulty ball says the UK will win.

blinding

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

I laugh at the fools being sold a free border for movement, are these people thick?

I hear the Eu is going to Pay people just to cross the border ....just because it can !

Pkiernan

Big question is will a hard border keep the dirty Shinners and the crazy Prods up north where they belong?

One can only hope. .

blinding

Pkiernan wrote: »

Big question is will a hard border keep the dirty Shinners and the crazy Prods up north where they belong?

One can only hope. .

The Eu is going to send them South in their Totality for Retraining .

Hotblack Desiato

prinzeugen wrote: »

Save this because I will quote when the next elections are on in the UK.

I buy British crystal balls. The one you have must be faulty and subject to a product recall if its from lidly aldi lee.

They only predict a good outcome for the EU while my faulty ball says the UK will win.

Do you really expect posts like this to be taken seriously?

McMurphy

titan18 wrote: »

Referendum though or a Dail vote? I'd hope for the first really.

Obvs a referendum - aren't pretty much all of the partys in D.E singing off the same hymn sheet ref their desire to see a united Ireland some day?

McMurphy

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

Its still a bit of a back water to be fair. It struggles to run itself responsibly, shows great immaturity in its ability to move beyond parish pump politics, boom and bust cycles, and novelty act joke TDs from backwoods within the backwater, like Kerry.
It certainly lagged embarrassingly, long after Lemass, and right up to the late 90s in income and industrial development. Even now, being propped up by a handful of foreign multinationals to an unhealthy degree, leaves it very vulnerable to a quick downturn. Its a backwater like NI all right.
If the two had any sense, they would join together as part of the UK, giving the island considerably more clout, preserving the unity of the island economically, socially, and day to day practicality, against the Brexit threat.
The republic's willingness to look the other way and let the six jump off a cliff alone while being rogered by Westminster, rather than stand with it and live up to a hundred years rhetoric about unity on the island is staggering hypocrisy.

TRoL.

Atlantic Dawn

prinzeugen wrote: »

Its happened since the CTA came into being. Are you one of the thicks that think a hard Britex means walls, barbed wire and watch towers like they had on the inner German border before socialism/communism failed in the East in 1989?

Get a grip and get real. That twat Tony Connolly on RTE would have people think a new Berlin wall is about to go up.

Not one of the Irish media outlets has mentioned the CTA. Just the "EU good, Britex bad", "Hard border" etc.

There will have to be border checks at every crossing point, either UK or EU manned, otherwise a plane can just arrive from Kerblackistan and those onboard can simply get buses up north to arrive in the UK with no check whatsoever entering the UK. The Unionists will not stand for passport checks at NIRL ports/airports for people travelling to Scotland/Wales/England.

Franz Von Peppercorn

prinzeugen wrote: »

Save this because I will quote when the next elections are on in the UK.

I buy British crystal balls. The one you have must be faulty and subject to a product recall if its from lidly aldi lee.

They only predict a good outcome for the EU while my faulty ball says the UK will win.

Last poll I just googled sees the SNP at 41%.

Franz Von Peppercorn

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

There will have to be border checks at every crossing point, either UK or EU manned, otherwise a plane can just arrive from Kerblackistan and those onboard can simply get buses up north to arrive in the UK with no check whatsoever entering the UK. The Unionists will not stand for passport checks at NIRL ports/airports for people travelling to Scotland/Wales/England.

Post Brexit it’s people fleeing Britain we would have to worry about. I can see Ireland imposing borders.

steddyeddy

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

Its still a bit of a back water to be fair. It struggles to run itself responsibly, shows great immaturity in its ability to move beyond parish pump politics, boom and bust cycles, and novelty act joke TDs from backwoods within the backwater, like Kerry.
It certainly lagged embarrassingly, long after Lemass, and right up to the late 90s in income and industrial development. Even now, being propped up by a handful of foreign multinationals to an unhealthy degree, leaves it very vulnerable to a quick downturn. Its a backwater like NI all right.
If the two had any sense, they would join together as part of the UK, giving the island considerably more clout, preserving the unity of the island economically, socially, and day to day practicality, against the Brexit threat.
The republic's willingness to look the other way and let the six jump off a cliff alone while being rogered by Westminster, rather than stand with it and live up to a hundred years rhetoric about unity on the island is staggering hypocrisy.

I never get posts like this. The richest part of Northern Ireland is poorer than the poorest part of Ireland. Based on a UK driven ideaology we should abandon our thriving economy, get out the Union Flag, start hating the opposing religion to us and all become a lot poorer? Want part of that would we want?

Taytoland

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Deleted User wrote: »

This is ahistorical drivel, albeit popular among people on Boards.ie who enjoy all that right-on ahistorical drivel where de Valera is equivalent to the Great Satan.

It takes a very special kind of genius to start a trade war with your country's by far the largest trading partner in the middle of the Great Depression.

Then in the 50s and early 60s he was hanging around with the smell of death off him when it was clear he didn't have a clue in what direction to lead the country, so he did nothing for years basically. Hundreds of thousands saw no future here and emigrated, when the rest of Europe was seeing the greatest boom in history our economy was stagnating for years.

Yes he kept us out of the Second World War but anyone could have done the same, and that was Dev's favourite kind of decision - inaction. He did great damage to the country with most of the few actions he did take.

Taytoland wrote: »

The detail was put to the Scottish people in 2014 and the Scottish Independence argument on the economy didn't stand up and it got destroyed in the poll. It wasn't even close. Leaving the EU will not change the fundamental issues on Scottish Independence and how they would be able to do it without implementing huge austerity measures and currency issues by leaving the pound. 

At the time I remember someone saying it would take years and years for any transforming from the Act of Union to Scottish Independence. Economically it's just not there. I think this talk of Scottish Independence is lalaland.

This post is at odds with reality. The Scottish independence vote was close enough. Shouldn't a 45% vote to break up the UK worry you? If 45% of people in any part of my country voted to leave, I'd be bloody worried.

One of the main arguments used against Scottish independence was the threat that they might not be allowed to stay in the EU. Vote No to stay in the EU, they said... how's that worked out?

The pound sterling is not some sort of guarantee of wealth. Looking at the equivalent euro exchange rate, the old Irish pound is now worth substantially more than sterling - in 1978 they were equal.

Says it all about the decline of the UK over the last 40 years, which will now only accelerate.

People used to say that Irish independence was lalaland, too.

Incredible that the Tories, not content with almost breaking up the UK in 2014, then went on to vote to wreck their economy in 2016. You'd be forgiven for thinking that Cameron was some sort of Russian or Chinese agent. Proof that the finest English education that money can buy is no guarantee against being a complete idiot. But what does the likes of him or Boris or Rees-Mogg care? They'll still be rich whatever happens.

Taytoland wrote: »

Scotland leaving the Union would also be leaving the EU. They have no guarantees they would get back in relatively soon whatsoever.

No but the desire to be a member goes a long way, plus they will have the goodwill of the EU27, and the acquis (European community law) is already in place, which is much more than any new entrant to the EU has ever had before.

They would also be changing from the pound to the Euro.

Only if they want to. You can't stop anyone from using a currency. We used the pound sterling (in effect) for 56 years without being part of the UK. There are countries using the euro today which are not members of the EU. Zimbabwe uses US dollars as legal tender, it is not part of the USA. Why would changing to the euro be a bad thing for Scotland, anyway?

One of the key foundations of the Scottish Independence movement in 2014 was North sea oil. What they didn't tell you is it is rapidly disappearing. By 2030s -2050s it will be finished. They put a lot of emphasis on something which in a few generations time won't matter a jot as it will be gone.

They still have vast amounts of hydro power and great potential with wind and tidal power. Scotland is and will remain an exporter of energy (and water - something the increasingly populous and dry SE of England might want to consider)

Taytoland wrote: »

The EU is notoriously inflexible. They have clear lines on many issues and rarely if ever budge on them. So absolutely no guarantees on Scotland joining the EU.

Really, because in the run-up to the referendum and since the brexiteers have been saying how weak and therefore flexible the EU is. How's that working out for you?

prinzeugen wrote: »

There wont be passport controls though for UK or Irish nationals.

Try flying into Dublin Airport from Britain sometime soon. For years there have been passport controls to prove that you are a CTA citizen who doesn't need to go through passport controls...

You want to leave the Union and yet use the pound currency, while having to rejoin the European Union which would require you to join the Euro. How is that remotely going to happen? It's simply not and the Scottish people knew all this in 2014 and it reflects in the vote. 

The Scottish referendum was called in March 2013, you had more than a whole year to make the argument for it and it failed, utterly. So you have no excuse, the Scottish people had a choice if they wanted to leave the Union and it was rejected.

steddyeddy

Taytoland wrote: »

You want to leave the Union and yet use the pound currency, while having to rejoin the European Union which would require you to join the Euro. How is that remotely going to happen? It's simply not and the Scottish people knew all this in 2014 and it reflects in the vote. 

The Scottish referendum was called in March 2013, you had more than a whole year to make the argument for it and it failed, utterly. So you have no excuse, the Scottish people had a choice if they wanted to leave the Union and it was rejected.

They also had a choice to stay in the EU, they choose to stay and that choice was rejected.

Franz Von Peppercorn

steddyeddy wrote: »

I never get posts like this. The richest part of Northern Ireland is poorer than the poorest part of Ireland. Based on a UK driven ideaology we should abandon our thriving economy, get out the Union Flag, start hating the opposing religion to us and all become a lot poorer? Want part of that would we want?

Well he is a trol.

Joining with the U.K. would be economic suicide.

Franz Von Peppercorn

Taytoland wrote: »

You want to leave the Union and yet use the pound currency, while having to rejoin the European Union which would require you to join the Euro. How is that remotely going to happen? It's simply not and the Scottish people knew all this in 2014 and it reflects in the vote. 

The Scottish referendum was called in March 2013, you had more than a whole year to make the argument for it and it failed, utterly. So you have no excuse, the Scottish people had a choice if they wanted to leave the Union and it was rejected.

If Brexit is a basket case then Scotland will leave and join the EU. Not necessarily good news for Ireland, that.

Taytoland

steddyeddy wrote: »

Taytoland wrote: »

You want to leave the Union and yet use the pound currency, while having to rejoin the European Union which would require you to join the Euro. How is that remotely going to happen? It's simply not and the Scottish people knew all this in 2014 and it reflects in the vote. 

The Scottish referendum was called in March 2013, you had more than a whole year to make the argument for it and it failed, utterly. So you have no excuse, the Scottish people had a choice if they wanted to leave the Union and it was rejected.

They also had a choice to stay in the EU, they choose to stay and that choice was rejected.

But they wanted to LEAVE the EU, that is what Scottish Independence means. They wanted to LEAVE and then JOIN, yeah, good luck with that. They must think Scottish people are idiots.

cournioni

I can’t see the nationalist population standing for what they would become, should a hard border come into place.

steddyeddy

Taytoland wrote: »

But they wanted to LEAVE the EU, that is what Scottish Independence means. They wanted to LEAVE and then JOIN, yeah, good luck with that. They must think Scottish people are idiots.

Ha ha actually Scotland were told by the better together campaign that a vote to leave the UK would be a vote to leave the EU. Then the UK left against the wishes of Scotland. The Scottish independence crowd wanted to leave and then apply for membership as a seperate country.

Peregrinus

Taytoland wrote: »

But they wanted to LEAVE the EU, that is what Scottish Independence means. They wanted to LEAVE and then JOIN, yeah, good luck with that. They must think Scottish people are idiots.

Try to get your story straight, Tayto. In 2014 Scottish independence would have meant leaving the EU and then applying to rejoin. However, as you yourself pointed out, the independence referendum was lost. So it's not true to say they wanted to leave the EU; they voted in a way that would keep them in it. They voted that way again in 2016, by an even larger margin. But now they are being taken out, because the English want to leave, and the Sewell convention has been shredded

The Scots are not as stupid as you think. They notice these things. They voted twice to remain in the EU but they are being taken out. In the 2014 referendum they were promised that if they voted to remain the power of the devolved government would be enlarged, but instead it is being reduced. If you think that the Scots will accept this as wise and just because it's what the English want, you are not thinking straight.

fly_agaric

Peregrinus wrote: »

If you think that the Scots will accept this as wise and just because it's what the English want, you are not thinking straight.

No matter. I can't see them getting a chance to vote on it again any time soon. No UK leader is going give any more referenda asking what to do about major issues like this. Cameron just about got away with that one - there would have chaos I think (quite similar to Brexit) if the Scots had made the "wrong" decision & it had been a "Yes" vote.
Would they have even have gotten their independence anyway (?)
I have my doubts given how quickly all the earnest promises made re a "No" vote basically held as much water afterwards as any vague manifesto pledges.