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Credit Card Cloned

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  • 03-08-2018 10:47am
    #1
    Visconti
    Registered Users Posts: 301 ✭✭


    Looking for advice on credit card issue.
    Long story short......
    I noticed a suspicious transaction on our account.
    Brought it to the attention of my bank.
    It turned out someone cloned my card.
    Used it in Spain to rent a car.
    The bank confirmed it was fraud and did a charge back with car rental company and cancelled the card.
    Here is where the story starts.......
    The car company have started sending threatening emails that if I dont pay the bill I will be blacklisted.
    They wont provide any details of what ID was used or anything else.
    They said the onus is on me to prove I was not in Spain on those dates, they want bank statements etc etc etc
    Any advice ? This cant be normal ?
    Thanks


Comments

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    #2
    rock22
    Registered Users Posts: 1,626 ✭✭✭rock22


    Have you informed your bank. I would ask them to deal with the rental company.


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    #3
    Visconti
    Registered Users Posts: 301 ✭✭Visconti


    rock22 wrote: »
    Have you informed your bank. I would ask them to deal with the rental company.


    The guy in the bank was ridiculous. He told me to forward the info they were requesting and said if they continue to make contact to go to Gardai. I asked him could he not do something he said I "suppose I could try" . He didnt sound very enthusiastic or interested.


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    #4
    Spocker
    Moderators Posts: 6,862 ✭✭✭Spocker


    Try the European Consumer Centre, they might be able to get the car company off your back: https://www.eccireland.ie/


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    #5
    kathleen37
    Registered Users Posts: 813 ✭✭✭kathleen37


    If it's a credit card issue, then the people at the branch have no access to any details of your credit card account.

    You need to speak to the fraud department of your credit card.

    It is odd though, that the car rental place have your details to be able to contact you? None of that information would be obtained by cloning a credit card?


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    #6
    CeilingFly
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,378 ✭✭✭CeilingFly


    Visconti wrote: »
    The guy in the bank was ridiculous. He told me to forward the info they were requesting and said if they continue to make contact to go to Gardai. I asked him could he not do something he said I "suppose I could try" . He didnt sound very enthusiastic or interested.

    Its not the bank's position to intervene on that and the bank official was correct in saying that you could go to the gardai, but as the "crime" was committed in spain, gardai here would need to go to spanish police.

    The culprits are the person who cloned your card and the place they got the details from. Not the bank.

    You could ask the bank to confirm in writing that it was a fraudulent transaction and forward a copy of that letter on.


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    #7
    Mr. Incognito
    Registered Users Posts: 9,798 ✭✭✭Mr. Incognito


    Hi there.

    Have you written to them to tell them that any further demands are unlawful and constitute a criminal offence and in the absence of confirmation that they will be withdrawn you will make a criminal complaint to the guards

    http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/money_and_tax/personal_finance/debt/debt_collection.html

    Harassment and intimidation

    All debt collectors, including private individuals and debt collection agencies, are covered by Section 11 of the Non-Fatal Offences against the Person Act 1997. This provides that a person is guilty of an offence if he/she makes any demand for payment of a debt and if:

    The demands are so frequent as to be calculated to subject you or a member of your family to alarm, distress or humiliation, or
    The person falsely represents that criminal proceedings lie for non-payment of the debt, or
    The person falsely represents that he or she is authorised in some official capacity to enforce payment, or
    The person utters a document falsely represented to have an official character

    If you are subjected to such behaviour by your creditor or by a debt collection agency, you should report the matter to the Garda Síochána. Anyone found guilty of offences under the Act is subject to large fines and up to 14 years in prison.


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    #8
    rock22
    Registered Users Posts: 1,626 ✭✭✭rock22


    CeilingFly wrote: »
    Its not the bank's position to intervene on that and the bank official was correct in saying that you could go to the gardai, but as the "crime" was committed in spain, gardai here would need to go to spanish police.

    The culprits are the person who cloned your card and the place they got the details from. Not the bank.

    You could ask the bank to confirm in writing that it was a fraudulent transaction and forward a copy of that letter on.

    Presumably they can only contact the OP because the bank gave their contact details. The transaction has been deemed fraudulent by the card issuer - surely they can inform the rental company that. The rental company are also a customer of the card issuer so the issue is between the card issuer and the rental company. The OP should not have to get involved at all.


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    #9
    CeilingFly
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,378 ✭✭✭CeilingFly


    Mr. Incognito wrote: »
    n the absence of confirmation that they will be withdrawn you will make a criminal complaint to the guards

    I don't think a car rental place will give two hoots about a report to Irish gardai because gardai have no jurisdiction there


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    #10
    homer911
    Registered Users Posts: 5,124 ✭✭✭homer911


    What does blacklisting entail? There are plenty of other car hire companies you can deal with.


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    #11
    Visconti
    Registered Users Posts: 301 ✭✭Visconti


    CeilingFly wrote: »
    I don't think a car rental place will give two hoots about a report to Irish gardai because gardai have no jurisdiction there

    Its the Dublin branch that a phoning and mailing on behalf of the rental in spain. I have spoken to bank again and asked for written confirmation that they have investigated the issue and have found it to be fraudulent as a previous poster suggeseted I will then forward that again to hire company even though they have already received that information as the charge back has been completed.
    I am a little concerned as to what ID the fraudsters used to obtain the vehicle and if my identity has been stolen.......
    The bank has told me I am entitled to the information and a copy of all documents but the hire company wont furnish me with them.


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    #12
    Atlantic Dawn
    Registered Users Posts: 82,791 ✭✭✭✭Atlantic Dawn
    M


    Why doesn't the car rental company simply not track down the person they took photo ID from when they were using the clone of your card?

    How did the car rental company get your email address?


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    #13
    Visconti
    Registered Users Posts: 301 ✭✭Visconti


    Atlantic Dawn wrote: »
    Why doesn't the car rental company simply not track down the person they took photo ID from when they were using the clone of your card?

    How did the car rental company get your email address?
    In answer to both your questions.

    I agree .

    I dont know.


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    #14
    Atlantic Dawn
    Registered Users Posts: 82,791 ✭✭✭✭Atlantic Dawn
    M


    Visconti wrote: »
    In answer to both your questions.

    I agree .

    I dont know.


    Would be interesting to know, potential data protection breach as to how they got it.


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    #15
    wonski
    Registered Users Posts: 13,685 ✭✭✭✭wonski


    Are you sure the emails come from genuine rental company?

    Just a thought. Matters like that are rarely dealt with by email.

    Your email address details may have been stolen too.


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    #16
    seagull
    Registered Users Posts: 2,342 ✭✭✭seagull


    Certainly ask the car rental company how they got your contact details. If it was from your card provider, I'd suggest someone is about to be in trouble.


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    #17
    STB.
    Registered Users Posts: 5,380 ✭✭✭STB.


    First off OP have no more dealings with the car hire company.

    You did not hire a car or fill in forms etc. Your credit card was used to carry out a fraudulent transaction. Your bank have already satisfied themselves through the charge back process. The rest is none of the car companies business.

    Secondly. Not alone has this car hire company facilitated fraud through poor ID checks but they are also in breach of data protection. They have your personal information and the question is how did they come by this. Let the data protection commissioner investigate that.

    Emphasise that they have contacted you unsolicited and have personal email address and information that you did not provide them.

    You might also mention that said company is threatening to use your personal information to blacklist you despite you not being a customer of theirs. This is quite a serious matter.


    https://www.dataprotection.ie/docs/Making-a-Complaint-to-the-Data-Protection-Commissioner/r/18.htm

    Finally your email account. Change the password.


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    #18
    Visconti
    Registered Users Posts: 301 ✭✭Visconti


    Quick update.....
    The hire company have been back on threatening to have the "debt collected" and blasklist us. They want me to PROVE I was not in spain. I have spoken to the bank Again they said the case is closed , i have been refunded as it was a fraudulent transaction and to "ignore" the hire company.
    I got on to the following organisations..
    Financial ombudsman (they only deal with banks and pensions not hire companies)
    The consumer authority (they recommended the data protection authority)
    The data protection authority (they recommended the gardai)
    I was too tired to drive to gardai but will tomorrow I expect them to send me back to the bank or something.
    I also asked the hire company where they got our email address they stated it was on the "file" !
    I told them that they had then received our details from the fraudster and they had no business contacting us and making threats she said they were not threats they were promises.
    I asked for a copy of the driving licience used to hire the car is spain and she refused I then asked for the data protection officer for their company she told me to "look up the website".
    I cant find it on the website so will phone head office tomorrow.
    This cant be an acceptable way to treat someone can it ? Anyone any advice ? I want to make a serious complaint about this.


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    #19
    punisher5112
    Registered Users Posts: 24,644 ✭✭✭✭punisher5112


    Put in a freedom of information request.

    Email or write to them that you want all electronic and hard data they have on file of you and correspondence such as i.d used to rent the vehicle, rental agreement with signature etc....

    Put it in writing.

    Do not entertain any more from them.

    Write to the ceo and explain your issue and tell them to cease.

    This is now free since the new gdpr rules.


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    #20
    Visconti
    Registered Users Posts: 301 ✭✭Visconti


    punisher5112 wrote: »
    Put in a freedom of information request.

    Email or write to them that you want all electronic and hard data they have on file of you and correspondence such as i.d used to rent the vehicle, rental agreement with signature etc....

    Put it in writing.

    Do not entertain any more from them.

    Write to the ceo and explain your issue and tell them to cease.

    This is now free since the new gdpr rules.


    Ok I was going to ask who to make out the €6.25 out to. Can a freedom of information request be done by email ? I would have written it.


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    #21
    listermint
    Registered Users Posts: 33,981 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    If the bank handed out your information then they're in for a fine.

    Put in a gdpr request to the bank asap. And review everything that's on your file.

    Inform the hire company if they call you again you are in touch with the data protection office for them fraudulently obtaining your contact information and tell them you will only correspond with them in writing in future . Don't give them your address they probably have it from the bank.


    See where that goes.


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    #22
    nim1bdeh38l2cw
    Closed Accounts Posts: 689 ✭✭✭nim1bdeh38l2cw


    punisher5112 wrote: »
    Put in a freedom of information request.

    Email or write to them that you want all electronic and hard data they have on file of you and correspondence such as i.d used to rent the vehicle, rental agreement with signature etc....

    Put it in writing.

    Do not entertain any more from them.

    Write to the ceo and explain your issue and tell them to cease.

    This is now free since the new gdpr rules.

    A subject access request, not an FOI request. FOI has nothing to do with private companies.


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    #23
    CeilingFly
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,378 ✭✭✭CeilingFly


    Tell them to go and Fxck Off.

    Frankly that is the only language they will understand.

    Tell them that any further contact, threats of debt collectors or any anything else and you will get solicitors involved and look for a court injunction against them to prevent further harassment.

    All legal costs along with a claim for damages for stress related to their false accusations will be made against them should they even make one further call to you.

    Advise her to inform the directors of the company as a registered letter will be sent to them both at their registered address, business address and home address.

    You can get director details on cro.ie


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    #24
    Visconti
    Registered Users Posts: 301 ✭✭Visconti


    listermint wrote: »
    If the bank handed out your information then they're in for a fine.

    Put in a gdpr request to the bank asap. And review everything that's on your file.

    Inform the hire company if they call you again you are in touch with the data protection office for them fraudulently obtaining your contact information and tell them you will only correspond with them in writing in future . Don't give them your address they probably have it from the bank.


    See where that goes.

    I dont believe it was the bank its on file at the hire company as the fraudster obviously used it but I am more concerned at this stage that someone may have got a driving licience with my details printed and be using it. The bank are of the opinion its disgusting behaviour and are not impressed but two different guys in the credit card section have stated that all they can do is a chargeback as I have received a full refund they are powerless to do anything else.


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    #25
    dudara
    Registered Users Posts: 33,518 ✭✭✭✭dudara


    Request a copy of all data they hold on you, as per your rights under the GDPR. This is free of charge. They have to answer within 20 business days or you can escalate to the regulatory authority.


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    #26
    nim1bdeh38l2cw
    Closed Accounts Posts: 689 ✭✭✭nim1bdeh38l2cw


    dudara wrote: »
    Request a copy of all data they hold on you, as per your rights under the GDPR. This is free of charge. They have to answer within 20 business days or you can escalate to the regulatory authority.

    30 days


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    #27
    dudara
    Registered Users Posts: 33,518 ✭✭✭✭dudara


    The GDPR says one month, which is a bit of a wooly definition. So its easier to think of it as 30 days or 20 working days.


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    #28
    nim1bdeh38l2cw
    Closed Accounts Posts: 689 ✭✭✭nim1bdeh38l2cw


    dudara wrote: »
    The GDPR says one month, which is a bit of a wooly definition. So its easier to think of it as 30 days or 20 working days.

    There can be 23 working days in a tmonth though ;-)


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    #29
    dudara
    Registered Users Posts: 33,518 ✭✭✭✭dudara


    Alfred Mysterious Overlord wrote: »
    There can be 23 working days in a tmonth though ;-)

    There can be 28, 28, 30 or 31 days in a month. I assume 18 working days when developing budgets at work so I average out for annual leave over the year. But all in all 20 working days is an easy rule of thumb to use.


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    #30
    STB.
    Registered Users Posts: 5,380 ✭✭✭STB.


    OP.

    Stop all this phone contact you are getting nowhere.

    I already told you what to do. Just fill the complaint in and lodge with the data commissioner.

    The moment they hand your details out to a debt collector they are in even more trouble than they already are.


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    #31
    Cabaal
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 28,497 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cabaal


    Stop dealing with them by phone, deal only via email as you'll have a record.

    Personally, if it was me I'd advise them its fraud, advise the bank has confirmed as much and I'd tell them get stuffed and if they pass any of my details which they obtained from an unauthorised third party to a debt collector they'll be legal action


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