Papal Flights

Under His Eye

Yep. It is a back up in case the other one goes tech.

vectorvictor

goingnowhere wrote: »

Just the Vatican crest, all other logos are the fleet standard

There were additional Aer Lingus titles directly above the door - they're not standard.They did the same in 79

Hope the lads on the 1979 swap with the 2909 so the four of them get a shot at flying him

Mebuntu

Is 2909 just a spare in case of a tech?

No doubt. Both aircraft are 19 years old.

Aer Lingus are chartered by the Holy Sea, the policy is the flag carrier of the visited nation.

The Holy See . I don't think Aer Lingus is still the flag carrier much as some would like to believe.

Why Aer Lingus over RYR, neither are state owned!

The only suitable FR aircraft would have been their solitary sometimes-luxury-version 737-700 but, in that config, probably not nearly enough seats for everyone and no backup.

Locker10a

Mebuntu wrote: »

Is 2909 just a spare in case of a tech?

No doubt. Both aircraft are 19 years old.

Aer Lingus are chartered by the Holy Sea, the policy is the flag carrier of the visited nation.

The Holy See . I don't think Aer Lingus is still the flag carrier much as some would like to believe.

Why Aer Lingus over RYR, neither are state owned!

The only suitable FR aircraft would have been their solitary sometimes-luxury-version 737-700 but, in that config, probably not nearly enough seats for everyone and no backup.

I don’t think the age of the aircraft has anything to do with it, they’re be absolutely no chances taken here as there wasn’t in 1979, of anything in the airlines control disrupting such a huge event publicity wise.
EI are still the flag carrier as far as I know, in the same way BA and Iberia are also their countries flag carriers despite being private businesses same applies elsewhere

marno21

EI2018 getting ready to depart Knock now

Skuxx

Mebuntu wrote: »

The only suitable FR aircraft would have been their solitary sometimes-luxury-version 737-700 but, in that config, probably not nearly enough seats for everyone and no backup.

Why would you say they have only 1 suitable aircraft?

john boye

Mebuntu wrote: »

The only suitable FR aircraft would have been their solitary sometimes-luxury-version 737-700 but, in that config, probably not nearly enough seats for everyone and no backup.

I don't think the aircraft used on this visit have been in any special config, they probably need the seats in fairness. An FR B738 could probably have been used if they'd wanted to.

Bussywussy

john boye wrote: »

Mebuntu wrote: »

The only suitable FR aircraft would have been their solitary sometimes-luxury-version 737-700 but, in that config, probably not nearly enough seats for everyone and no backup.

I don't think the aircraft used on this visit have been in any special config, they probably need the seats in fairness. An FR B738 could probably have been used if they'd wanted to.

There was a small modification done at doors 3,that was about it

Mebuntu

Why would you say they have only 1 suitable aircraft?

My personal opinion is that I think the 738 config would have been a little cramped compared to the EI A321 without taking out a few rows. Mind you, it hasn't stopped me doing 1000+ flights with FR but I'm not the Pope.

EI are still the flag carrier as far as I know, in the same way BA and Iberia are also their countries flag carriers despite being private businesses same applies elsewhere

Before the post I had a look around to see if I could get a definitive definition of a flag carrier. The explanation on Wikepedia whether correct or not:

"A flag carrier is a transportation company, such as an airline or shipping company, that, being locally registered in a given sovereign state, enjoys preferential rights or privileges accorded by the government for international operations. The term also refers to any carrier that is or was owned by a government, even long after their privatization when preferential rights or privileges continue."

In this day and age I can't see how a Government could be permitted to give preferential rights and privileges to one airline over another (unless it was State owned) but I suppose that's a debate outside this thread.

Comhrá

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (for what it's worth)

Aer Lingus
Aerlinguslogo.svg
IATA ICAO Callsign
EI EIN SHAMROCK
Founded 15 April 1936; 82 years ago
Commenced operations 27 May 1936



Aer Lingus (/ˌɛər ˈlɪŋɡəs/, an anglicisation of the Irish aerloingeas[2][3] meaning "air fleet") is the flag carrier airline of Ireland and the second-largest airline in the country.

nim1bdeh38l2cw

Comhra wrote: »

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (for what it's worth)

It's not worth anything, because I could just go in and change it

EchoIndia

EIN2408 (EI-CPG) being followed by EIN2AKL (EI-CPH). The first of these rolling for takeoff at 1844.

Van.Bosch

EchoIndia wrote: »

EIN2408 (EI-CPG) being followed by EIN2AKL (EI-CPH). The first of these rolling for takeoff at 1844.

I get sending the second A321 to NOC in case an issue getting him back on the first. Is it not overkill sending a backup with this flight? Is it in case the first has to divert due to issues and then they switch to the first?

Locker10a

Van.Bosch wrote: »

EchoIndia wrote: »

EIN2408 (EI-CPG) being followed by EIN2AKL (EI-CPH). The first of these rolling for takeoff at 1844.

I get sending the second A321 to NOC in case an issue getting him back on the first. Is it not overkill sending a backup with this flight? Is it in case the first has to divert due to issues and then they switch to the first?

Yep, no chances taken, the second plane will turn around in the air and return to Dublin when the first flight with the pope onboard has reached a point where they know they will reliably get the Pope to Rome

Cloudio9

Locker10a wrote: »

Yep, no chances taken, the second plane will turn around in the air and return to Dublin when the first flight with the pope onboard has reached a point where they know they will reliably get the Pope to Rome

And this dude lectures us about the environment!

Snowc

It's a pity his gone anything else coming up soon I can complain about:D

goingnowhere

Backup aircraft is coming home

EchoIndia

goingnowhere wrote: »

Backup aircraft is coming home

And primary aircraft is in the descent to Rome.

LXFlyer

Locker10a wrote: »

Yep, no chances taken, the second plane will turn around in the air and return to Dublin when the first flight with the pope onboard has reached a point where they know they will reliably get the Pope to Rome

Having “shepherded” EI2408 all the way until they had passed Corsica, EI-CPH is now turning back towards Dublin over the island of Elba.

ouxbbkqtswdfaw

In keeping with his humility, should he not be travelling via Ryanair?

HeidiHeidi

cvmqbg641yzd5a wrote: »

In keeping with his humility, should he not be travelling via Ryanair?

How is Ryanair any different to Aer Lingus these days?

ouxbbkqtswdfaw

True, they're both budget airlines now.

California Dreamer

How did the skoda and the pope mobile get between Dublin and Knock?

HeidiHeidi

California Dreamer wrote: »

How did the skoda and the pope mobile get between Dublin and Knock?

Presumably they had a set of each for each location.

sjb25

California Dreamer wrote: »

How did the skoda and the pope mobile get between Dublin and Knock?

Well the Dublin pope mobile was a Dodge I think the one in Mayo was an Isuzu so they wer different probably 2 separate skodas aswell

mfceiling

Silly question from my 12 year old daughter but anyway....

What is the arrangements for the Pope and his entourage regarding security clearance? Do they have to have their bags scanned before being taken on to the plane? Do they go through a security check themselves? Passport control?

billie1b

mfceiling wrote: »

Silly question from my 12 year old daughter but anyway....

What is the arrangements for the Pope and his entourage regarding security clearance? Do they have to have their bags scanned before being taken on to the plane? Do they go through a security check themselves? Passport control?

Thats all done before any of them arrive at the airport, it’s all precleared, they just drive them straight up to the back entrance gate post and they get a garda escort all the way through no stopping until at the aircraft

mfceiling

billie1b wrote: »

Thats all done before any of them arrive at the airport, it’s all precleared, they just drive them straight up to the back entrance gate post and they get a garda escort all the way through no stopping until at the aircraft

How does that work? Are the bags checked externally then brought under guard to the plane? Is the Pope himself "frisked" at a location outside the airport then taken under guard to the plane?
Security nowadays is huge at airports - do visiting heads of states/dignitaries get any leeway?

EchoIndia

goingnowhere wrote: »

Backup aircraft is coming home

mfceiling wrote: »

How does that work? Are the bags checked externally then brought under guard to the plane? Is the Pope himself "frisked" at a location outside the airport then taken under guard to the plane?
Security nowadays is huge at airports - do visiting heads of states/dignitaries get any leeway?

I think you are unlikely to get a detailed answer to such specific questions.

faoiarvok

mfceiling wrote: »

How does that work? Are the bags checked externally then brought under guard to the plane? Is the Pope himself "frisked" at a location outside the airport then taken under guard to the plane?
Security nowadays is huge at airports - do visiting heads of states/dignitaries get any leeway?

Diplomatic immunity

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diplomatic_bag

faoiarvok

mfceiling wrote: »

Silly question from my 12 year old daughter but anyway....

What is the arrangements for the Pope and his entourage regarding security clearance? Do they have to have their bags scanned before being taken on to the plane? Do they go through a security check themselves? Passport control?

It’s possible they went through a security check in the private terminal but I’d be inclined to believe it was forgone.

Under His Eye

They would have their passports checked in the VIP terminal on arrival.

Van.Bosch

According to the Vatican, the pope was in the cockpit for the landing in Rome at the pilots request. I know he is the pope but is that some kinda breach?

Maybe technically as it wasn’t a commercial flight it’s different?

Edit: should prob say at the pilots invitation, request makes it sound like they wanted his help.

Trampas

Who’s paying for the flights?

Any route suffer as a result?

Arthur Daley

sjb25 wrote: »

Well the Dublin pope mobile was a Dodge I think the one in Mayo was an Isuzu so they wer different probably 2 separate skodas aswell

2 different Skodas. Both going to charity now.

Van.Bosch

Trampas wrote: »

Who’s paying for the flights?

Any route suffer as a result?

The Vatican charter the plane. I doubt EI have two spare A321’s on a Sunday in August so I guess they cancelled routes months ago or didn’t put them on sale to facilitate. The PR is too good to turn down.

Trampas

Van.Bosch wrote: »

The Vatican charter the plane. I doubt EI have two spare A321’s on a Sunday in August so I guess they cancelled routes months ago or didn’t put them on sale to facilitate. The PR is too good to turn down.

I doubt it myself. So apart from sending two planes cost they’ve also lost revenue

Van.Bosch

Trampas wrote: »

I doubt it myself. So apart from sending two planes cost they’ve also lost revenue

Nah the Vatican pay for the plane, not the backup. But I suspect they would have made more in regular service.

afatbollix

With regards to the bags searches.


Everyone would be part of the bubble.

You would be checked when entering the bubble but once you are in the bubble that's it. When he landed it was onto buses and follow himself to each point then back onto the bus and onto the next point. Same for the return flights they would drive out onto the apron and on to the plane with little checks.

Im not sure of the pope but the president or the Taoiseach wouldn't have their passports checked. Its seen as rude when you get to that level.

EchoIndia

EIN2409 about to depart from Rome-CIA back to Dublin.

andy_g

afatbollix wrote: »

With regards to the bags searches.


Everyone would be part of the bubble.

You would be checked when entering the bubble but once you are in the bubble that's it. When he landed it was onto buses and follow himself to each point then back onto the bus and onto the next point. Same for the return flights they would drive out onto the apron and on to the plane with little checks.

Im not sure of the pope but the president or the Taoiseach wouldn't have their passports checked. Its seen as rude when you get to that level.

Considering that our Taoiseach walked through T2 immigration only a few weeks ago and handed in his passport no problem.

kevinandrew

Trampas wrote: »

Van.Bosch wrote: »

The Vatican charter the plane. I doubt EI have two spare A321’s on a Sunday in August so I guess they cancelled routes months ago or didn’t put them on sale to facilitate. The PR is too good to turn down.

I doubt it myself. So apart from sending two planes cost they’ve also lost revenue

The Vatican pay to charter the aircraft, journalists pay for their own seats probably via their employers accounts.

Aer Lingus probabaly made more on this flight than they would have on a normal scheduled service. The only loss would have been the second back up A321 which was probably decided by Aer Lingus. On a Sunday in late August I can only imagine an A321 would be on a Canaries run or to Spain/Portugal so maybe a loss there but worth it for the publicity and coverage they received.

Locker10a

Van.Bosch wrote: »

According to the Vatican, the pope was in the cockpit for the landing in Rome at the pilots request. I know he is the pope but is that some kinda breach?

Maybe technically as it wasn’t a commercial flight it’s different?

Edit: should prob say at the pilots invitation, request makes it sound like they wanted his help.

I believe unless in US airspace it’s the captains discretion on who can enter the flight deck unless airline procedure or guidelines state otherwise. I’m sure this was given the thumbs up by the EI security department or fleet captain etc

Brennus335

This is an aviation forum, the topics being discussed is aviation. Thus debate about the operational aspect of this visit is expected. You don’t have to read this thread or take part.
If you want to sprout claims and insults then go to Afterhours or Politics. You are welcome to your personal views but that doesn’t mean you can force them down people’s throats.

I’m typing this as a Irish person who has not engaged their children in the ‘mini wedding’ that is the annual Irish communion social occasion.


P.S. Currently the largest group of such activity apprehended is in the UK with approx 70K members

lambayire

As the Papal convoy arrived back to Dublin Airport yesterday, they drove in through one of the side entrance gates.
There was an aerial shot of the arrival. I could not figure where it was on the perimeter. Anyone know?

The 2 planes were near the fire station, right?

So I am guessing they went in somewhere near there? So that's around the Boot Inn neck of the woods.

And then that got me thinking to what route they took from the Phoenix Park to the airport?

The kids were delighted to see that we were on the same plane going to Venice back in June.
Sometimes it's the little things!

Under His Eye

afatbollix wrote: »

With regards to the bags searches.


Everyone would be part of the bubble.

You would be checked when entering the bubble but once you are in the bubble that's it. When he landed it was onto buses and follow himself to each point then back onto the bus and onto the next point. Same for the return flights they would drive out onto the apron and on to the plane with little checks.

Im not sure of the pope but the president or the Taoiseach wouldn't have their passports checked. Its seen as rude when you get to that level.

Our resident immigration officer says otherwise, that heads of state still have to clear immigration and require passports.

billie1b

Under His Eye wrote: »

Our resident immigration officer says otherwise, that heads of state still have to clear immigration and require passports.

If on private travel, most of them do go through the normal channels, i’ve checked many a TD’s, Taoiseach, Presidents credentials going onto the aircraft, when on state travel, it’s usually straight in and onto the aircraft with no checks

The Veteran

billie1b wrote: »

If on private travel, most of them do go through the normal channels, i’ve checked many a TD’s, Taoiseach, Presidents credentials going onto the aircraft, when on state travel, it’s usually straight in and onto the aircraft with no checks

Departing and arriving are two different things. Again, it’s an operational matter but arrangements in regard to embarkation are covered by the National Security Protocol.

Arrival procedures are determined by Immigration and Customs, with relevant liaison with AGS and Airport Police where relevant. The Pope did not use Platinum Servixes (the private terminal presumably as referenced above) in the normal sense but 3 of the people he shook hands with at the bottom of the steps on departure we’re Platinum staff. Platinum “manage” VIP movements for the airport with the Staturory Agencies setting out what they need.

The detail would have been planned in advance.

The Veteran

Also, most if not all of the Irish Cabinet make a point of arriving and departing as ordinary passengers. The President uses Platinum or has ramp Transfers (essentially what the Pope did).

The Veteran

billie1b wrote: »

If on private travel, most of them do go through the normal channels, i’ve checked many a TD’s, Taoiseach, Presidents credentials going onto the aircraft, when on state travel, it’s usually straight in and onto the aircraft with no checks

Departing and arriving are two different things. Again, it’s an operational matter but arrangements in regard to embarkation are covered by the National Security Protocol.

Arrival procedures are determined by Immigration and Customs, with relevant liaison with AGS and Airport Police where relevant. The Pope did not use Platinum Servixes (the private terminal presumably as referenced above) in the normal sense but 3 of the people he shook hands with at the bottom of the steps on departure we’re Platinum staff. Platinum “manage” VIP movements for the airport with the Staturory Agencies setting out what they need.

The detail would have been planned in advance.