Parents Life Insurance policies - Have they been hoodwinked?

imokyrok

I sat down with my Mum to try to help her sort out her financial records as my Dads Alzheimers has reached the stage where he can't understand such things. I was struck by the number of little life policies they had for small pay out amounts. So far I've found 4 Irish Life policies. In total they are paying €230 per month on these policies and the pay out if all of them reach pay out comes to just €62500.

I know little about such matters but it is far more of a premium than I've ever paid for far less payout money. I think their broker (now retired) may have taken advantage of them. They thought he was a lovely man and he'd call out to the house and sell them another small policy regularly from what I can make out. My parents entire income is just the State Pension!

They are also paying well over twice what I do for VHI and there are a couple of other life policies Mum isn't sure about we have to check out. May be discontinued ones.

I'm going to go to the VHI office in Dublin with my Mum to ask for advice on cutting the VHI bill and think I should also go with her to Irish Life offices to clarify all these policies.

Any thoughts or advice?

com1

You could try hia.ie for the health insurance. They have a good plan comparison page. Has saved me money in the past (cheaper plan with better cover) and remember all plans are available to all even company plans.

Heres Johnny

You need to talk to the company about the life insurance but usually life policies are more expensive as you get older. You say your dad has Alzheimer's and mentioned state pension so late 60s at least?
62500 pay out for 230 a month for an older person may not actually be over the odds and be careful about cancelling them just on cost. You could even think of it as an investment too, when I was an advisor I had a couple of people take over paying their parents policies as they would be the beneficiaries. So talk to an advisor in Irish life and get the details of the policies.

imokyrok

Heres Johnny wrote: »

You need to talk to the company about the life insurance but usually life policies are more expensive as you get older. You say your dad has Alzheimer's and mentioned state pension so late 60s at least?
62500 pay out for 230 a month for an older person may not actually be over the odds and be careful about cancelling them just on cost. You could even think of it as an investment too, when I was an advisor I had a couple of people take over paying their parents policies as they would be the beneficiaries. So talk to an advisor in Irish life and get the details of the policies.

Both are 73. And poor Mum thought one of the policies paid out on the Alzheimer's diagnosis which was a year ago but it turned out that that one provision lapsed at age 65. They can't catch a break.

gerard2210

As Com1 mentioned take a look at the hia.ie website. You can compare plans across all companies. Bit of a pain with all the different policies but you should definitely find something much cheaper if your parents are on the same plan for years. Or check out a broker for independent advice. Totalhealthcover.ie ir run by Dermot Goode he is often on newstalk giving advice about health insurance. Might be worth paying 125euro for good advice.

Glass fused light

Unless you or your mum has power of attorney for your dad be very careful about any changes you would try to make for him.

Heres Johnny

imokyrok wrote: »

Heres Johnny wrote: »

You need to talk to the company about the life insurance but usually life policies are more expensive as you get older. You say your dad has Alzheimer's and mentioned state pension so late 60s at least?
62500 pay out for 230 a month for an older person may not actually be over the odds and be careful about cancelling them just on cost. You could even think of it as an investment too, when I was an advisor I had a couple of people take over paying their parents policies as they would be the beneficiaries. So talk to an advisor in Irish life and get the details of the policies.

Both are 73. And poor Mum thought one of the policies paid out on the Alzheimer's diagnosis which was a year ago but it turned out that that one provision lapsed at age 65. They can't catch a break.

Yes that would be the serious illness part of it . I never worked for Irish life but I do know some of their policies and they are no better or worse than any other company, it all depends on what life throws at you and when it does.
Life policies are not really designed to guarantee massive payouts but rather provide what you need when you need it and an older person requirements are generally lower as there will be less family bills like children's costs and mortgages etc....
62500 for 73 year olds is something worth considering keeping anyway but find out what premiums will be over the coming years to keep the policy active and then weigh up the pros and cons between the whole family. My own fathers policy is way down in value now it was over 300,000 at one stage when we were kids to get us through college and a leg up in life if he died when we were young but that's not needed now and would cost a fortune now he is well into his 60s.

Get a 2nd opinion after Irish life if you want or don't fully understand

Henry Ford III

Appoint a fee based independent QFA and get your folks to sign a letter of authority for the insurer.

Only then you'll get a proper informed opinion on this policy.

Heres Johnny

Henry Ford III wrote: »

Appoint a fee based independent QFA and get your folks to sign a letter of authority for the insurer.

Only then you'll get a proper informed opinion on this policy.

I don't think they have to throw money at this for independent advice they are paying a premium and will get advice from the insurance company and its agents/staff or from the broker. Theyre not all out to shaft people.

okiss

Hi imokyrok,

I am sorry that your father has Alzheimer's. I know that your trying to sort out matters as a result of this.

I would advise that you speak to a solicitor and see if you can get power of attorney for your father. A solicitor can advise what they need from your and your father to do this.
This means that you can deal with life insurance company's, banks ect on your father behalf. You can also sign forms ect on his behalf so you can deal with any legal matters.

Is your father aware that he has Alzheimers and would he understand if you said Dad you know you have Alzheimers. I am going to help you and to do this I need to be able to talk to people and sign forms on your behalf? Would you be happy to for me to do this?
I need to you to meet a solicitor for a chat and they need me and you to sign forms so I can do this for you. In order to do this you father needs to understand what you are trying to do on his behalf.

This this what one of my friends did a few years ago when their mother got Alzheimers. It made life easier for them as they could manage their mothers bank accounts, ring insurance companies, social welfare ect.

I can't give you any advice re the insurance policies with Irish Life.
From what you have said here I feel that your parents are with vhi for years and are on one of the older policies. These older policy's are expensive and have poor cover.

You do not need to bring your mother into the vhi office to get this sorted as the poor woman is dealing with enough. I worked in the health insurance area in the past and here is what you need to do.

1) You need to find out when your parents policy is due for renewal.

2) About 6 weeks before the end of the policy you need to send a registered
letter to vhi to cancel this policy with them. You need to state in the letter
that both your mother and father wish to cancel this policy and that your
father has Alzheimer's. You need to get your mother to sign this letter.

3) If you cancel your policy mid year with vhi they may charge for braking the
contract with them.

4) Unless you send the letter to vhi they will automatically renew this policy.
Ask your mother do they pay for the policy by cheque or by direct debit?
If they pay by direct debit she needs to cancel this direct debit with the
bank also. Have a look at their bank statements to see when vhi have been
paid.

If they have health insurance for a number of years they have there waiting periods served so they can move to another company without losing these.
Vhi can send a letter to you stating this and you take a copy of this letter before sending it to laya. Once you do this laya will know waiting periods have been covered so they will be in a position to pay any further claims you put in for either your mother or father.

Do your parents have a medical card or a gp visit card? Some times elderly people don't apply for these. I would ask your mother if she has either of these and if not to apply for the medical for both your mother and father. The medical card will mean they will get free gp visits and they will just pay a few euro for medication on perscription and this amount is capped per month.

Then they can use the private health insurance if you father needs to see a consultant, needs scans or he needs tests ect as some of the waiting lists for these on the public system are long.

I am sorry you going though this as it is not easy. I worked in the the health insurance area in the past. If you let me know what policy they have with vhi I will look up the hia website for you and see if I can find a cheaper and possibly a better policy for both your parents.
I hope the above is of some help to you.

Heres Johnny

If the policies are joint or dual policies his mother is on them too. You don't need attorneys or a 3rd party financial advisor you just need to talk to Irish life and vhi.
Both of these professions charge hundreds for a consultation. Don't agree with any of the advice above. He just wants to find out what policies are active and what is covered to gauge the financial situation.

Heres Johnny

It also sounds a bit like you work for LAYA too if you do at least admit your interest.
The OPs instincts initially were correct, talk to the insurance companies that are paid to administer and advise on these policies. They are well capable of this themselves.

Sleeper12

It all depends on when they took out the policy. I have a basic life policy for 100k I've had for decades & it costs pennies. Taking the same policy in my 60s or 70s I'd expect to pay a premium

Kristopherus

OP, can you find out what the surrender value of the policies? If its anywhere near the €62000 you might be better cashing in. Cash in hands may be better in the current medical condition of your Dad.

Henry Ford III

Heres Johnny wrote: »

I don't think they have to throw money at this for independent advice they are paying a premium and will get advice from the insurance company and its agents/staff or from the broker. Theyre not all out to shaft people.

Facepalm.

imokyrok

okiss wrote: »

Hi imokyrok,

I am sorry that your father has Alzheimer's. I know that your trying to sort out matters as a result of this.

I would advise that you speak to a solicitor and see if you can get power of attorney for your father. A solicitor can advise what they need from your and your father to do this.
This means that you can deal with life insurance company's, banks ect on your father behalf. You can also sign forms ect on his behalf so you can deal with any legal matters.

Is your father aware that he has Alzheimers and would he understand if you said Dad you know you have Alzheimers. I am going to help you and to do this I need to be able to talk to people and sign forms on your behalf? Would you be happy to for me to do this?
I need to you to meet a solicitor for a chat and they need me and you to sign forms so I can do this for you. In order to do this you father needs to understand what you are trying to do on his behalf.

This this what one of my friends did a few years ago when their mother got Alzheimers. It made life easier for them as they could manage their mothers bank accounts, ring insurance companies, social welfare ect.

I can't give you any advice re the insurance policies with Irish Life.
From what you have said here I feel that your parents are with vhi for years and are on one of the older policies. These older policy's are expensive and have poor cover.

You do not need to bring your mother into the vhi office to get this sorted as the poor woman is dealing with enough. I worked in the health insurance area in the past and here is what you need to do.

1) You need to find out when your parents policy is due for renewal.

2) About 6 weeks before the end of the policy you need to send a registered
letter to vhi to cancel this policy with them. You need to state in the letter
that both your mother and father wish to cancel this policy and that your
father has Alzheimer's. You need to get your mother to sign this letter.

3) If you cancel your policy mid year with vhi they may charge for braking the
contract with them.

4) Unless you send the letter to vhi they will automatically renew this policy.
Ask your mother do they pay for the policy by cheque or by direct debit?
If they pay by direct debit she needs to cancel this direct debit with the
bank also. Have a look at their bank statements to see when vhi have been
paid.

If they have health insurance for a number of years they have there waiting periods served so they can move to another company without losing these.
Vhi can send a letter to you stating this and you take a copy of this letter before sending it to laya. Once you do this laya will know waiting periods have been covered so they will be in a position to pay any further claims you put in for either your mother or father.

Do your parents have a medical card or a gp visit card? Some times elderly people don't apply for these. I would ask your mother if she has either of these and if not to apply for the medical for both your mother and father. The medical card will mean they will get free gp visits and they will just pay a few euro for medication on perscription and this amount is capped per month.

Then they can use the private health insurance if you father needs to see a consultant, needs scans or he needs tests ect as some of the waiting lists for these on the public system are long.

I am sorry you going though this as it is not easy. I worked in the the health insurance area in the past. If you let me know what policy they have with vhi I will look up the hia website for you and see if I can find a cheaper and possibly a better policy for both your parents.
I hope the above is of some help to you.

That's very kind of you.
Mum - Health Plus Extra €2430
Dad - 1 Plan Extra €2006
They also pay for their disabled son who lives with them.
Son - Health Plus Access €1515
I think there has been a price drop in VHI this month so these sums may be a bit out but that's what they have been paying.

coylemj

okiss wrote: »

2) About 6 weeks before the end of the policy you need to send a registered
letter to vhi to cancel this policy with them. You need to state in the letter
that both your mother and father wish to cancel this policy and that your
father has Alzheimer's. You need to get your mother to sign this letter.

You don't need to send the VHI a registered letter and neither do you have to give them a reason why you're moving. I informed them by e-mail that I was moving and they accepted it.

okiss wrote: »

If they have health insurance for a number of years they have there waiting periods served so they can move to another company without losing these.
Vhi can send a letter to you stating this and you take a copy of this letter before sending it to laya. Once you do this laya will know waiting periods have been covered so they will be in a position to pay any further claims you put in for either your mother or father.

You don't need anything from the VHI. I gave my new insurer my VHI subscriber number and they obviously contacted the VHI who verified that I had had continuous cover.

Moving medical insurer is a lot easier than you are making it out to be.

okiss

Hi imokyrok

I had a look at the hia.ie website in regards to your parents and brother s health insurance policies.

I think the following policy would suit them all Laya Simply Connect Plus for euro 1250 each.
This policy has 150 excess on the 1st private hospital claim per member per year. If your parents or brother have more than 1 stay in a private hospital they don't pay a further excess.

No excess applies to 5 orthopaedic procedures -hip and knee replacements in 12 private hospitals

They have euro 50 excess for a day case in a private hospital along with cover for a day case in the mater private, blackrock clinic and the Becon.

They have a 1 euro excess on day to day care and they can claim back 50% of the cost of the following - gp visits, consultant visits, physiotherapist, emergency dental, non emergency dental, home nursing, hearing test and optical ie eye test, new glasses. There is euro 1000 limit per year on this.

If you going on to the hia.ie website, click on compare plans, then I do know what plans I would like to compare.
Put in each of the present plans sepertly along with laya Simply connect plus. You will be able to see what each offer under a number of headings.
I ruled out plans that you had to pay an excess for each hospital stay or plans that had a large excess for each stay.

I hope you find the above helpful.

imokyrok

okiss wrote: »

Hi imokyrok

I had a look at the hia.ie website in regards to your parents and brother s health insurance policies.

I think the following policy would suit them all Laya Simply Connect Plus for euro 1250 each.
This policy has 150 excess on the 1st private hospital claim per member per year. If your parents or brother have more than 1 stay in a private hospital they don't pay a further excess.

No excess applies to 5 orthopaedic procedures -hip and knee replacements in 12 private hospitals

They have euro 50 excess for a day case in a private hospital along with cover for a day case in the mater private, blackrock clinic and the Becon.

They have a 1 euro excess on day to day care and they can claim back 50% of the cost of the following - gp visits, consultant visits, physiotherapist, emergency dental, non emergency dental, home nursing, hearing test and optical ie eye test, new glasses. There is euro 1000 limit per year on this.

If you going on to the hia.ie website, click on compare plans, then I do know what plans I would like to compare.
Put in each of the present plans sepertly along with laya Simply connect plus. You will be able to see what each offer under a number of headings.
I ruled out plans that you had to pay an excess for each hospital stay or plans that had a large excess for each stay.

I hope you find the above helpful.

Thank you so much. I'll investigate your advice further. Very kind of you to take the time.