Domestic solar PV quotes 2018

unkel

GaryCocs wrote: »

Have a report on one of the guys 4kw set up: 310 units per month on average 3kw set up would then be: 232 units maybe? Don't know how much would be wasted out of that?

Total production is about right for a south facing setup in most decent solar areas in Ireland. A lot of that will not be used though. A quick calc to show what you are up against. Figures also plucked out of the air, but you get the idea, you can change my parameters etc.:

Let's say your average solar production hours over the day are 10AM to 6PM (you get a little bit more in summer, but a lot less in winter) and during those hours the average probability of producing 400W or more during all those hours is maybe 60% (when it is overcast or when it rains, you won't make 400W even in the middle of the day). That means:

8 hours per day * 365 days * 60% * 0.4kW base load * 16c/kWh = saving of €112 per year. Throw in another €20 or €30 of savings for the times your system does produce, but less than your base load and you are talking realistic savings without actively managing any applications, so a payback of closer to 30 years. Pump for solar thermal uses very little power.

GaryCocs wrote: »

Day rate, night rate argument I get but I cant get herself to do two washes at night

You're not alone there

At least your other half will run the machines when the sun shines, which will make above figures a bit better!

randombar

unkel wrote: »

Total production is about right for a south facing setup in most decent solar areas in Ireland. A lot of that will not be used though. A quick calc to show what you are up against. Figures also plucked out of the air, but you get the idea, you can change my parameters etc.:

Let's say your average solar production hours over the day are 10AM to 6PM (you get a little bit more in summer, but a lot less in winter) and during those hours the average probability of producing 400W or more during all those hours is maybe 60% (when it is overcast or when it rains, you won't make 400W even in the middle of the day). That means:

8 hours per day * 365 days * 60% * 0.4kW base load * 16c/kWh = saving of €112 per year. Throw in another €20 or €30 of savings for the times your system does produce, but less than your base load and you are talking realistic savings without actively managing any applications, so a payback of closer to 30 years. Pump for solar thermal uses very little power.



You're not alone there

At least your other half will run the machines when the sun shines, which will make above figures a bit better!

So the plan at the moment is to put the panels and hybrid inverter in w/o grant due to roof restrictions etc. on the grant.

Then a couple of months later to add the battery using the grant.

Need to figure out costs of BER etc. but I think it will make sense.

Obviously the EV is on the cards maybe the year after next too.

Will look to install an Eddi myself hopefully or prepare for it.

And also do the "back up system" wiring. For lights and boiler pump.

air

If you're going down the DIY ground mount route you'd probably be as well off go with a standard cheaper inverter.
Use an AC battery storage system or a DC one that can work with your existing inverter.
The hybrid ones are very expensive for now as they are the latest and greatest, regular string inverters can be had very cheaply by comparison.

unkel

Any reason for ground mounting? It's more expensive, takes up more space, more prone to damage.

randombar

air wrote: »

If you're going down the DIY ground mount route you'd probably be as well off go with a standard cheaper inverter.
Use an AC battery storage system or a DC one that can work with your existing inverter.
The hybrid ones are very expensive for now as they are the latest and greatest, regular string inverters can be had very cheaply by comparison.

Going back to the roof mount. Bad time of year to be digging out ground and feel better having them up out of the way anyway.

I didn't know you could charge a battery off the standard inverters? Or is it the hybrid could charge a battery from night-saver as well as from PV?

air

You can charge batteries using:

1. An AC coupled system like the Pylontech Unkel has linked
2. Using a regular hybrid inverter
3. Using a system like the Growatt that sits between your solar panels and your regular inverter
4. If you're going hard core, by AC coupling your regular inverter to an off grid inverter
5. By just connecting panels direct to batteries via a charge controller

So that's 5 ways to skin the cat, but the first 3 are probably the ones of relevance to you.

It's a bad time of year to be installing panels anywhere to be honest.

randombar

Couple of questions on estimes for the pieces I'm not getting included.

What is involved in "essential load" wiring? Is it running the wire back from the panels to specific circuits or what's the story?

The eddi. Just wondering if I picked one up what's involved in wiring that? Hardly have to run a new wire to the immersion? Just trying to get my head around controls and wiring diagram.

rolion

A quick reminder of this website... H E R E

http://re.jrc.ec.europa.eu/pvg_tools/en/tools.html#SA

Looks nice and the results are more than matching my output.

randombar

Pulled the trigger on this anyway.

Went the non grant route as I was worried I wouldn't get the grant based on roof regulations.

>= 3kw on two roofs with 5kwh hybrid inverter for €4300 installed. (Thinking I might reduce the inverter to 3.7)

Come April or May I would look to install the 2.4kwh battery for 1250 plus BER and then use the grant.

I've had some decent people onto me and the guy I'm going with has been recommended by 4 different people so happy with my choice.

unkel

GaryCocs wrote: »

Come April or May I would look to install the 2.4kwh battery for 1250 plus BER and then use the grant.

Did they give you a quote of 1250 (including VAT) for supply and fit of the battery? That seems cheap as the battery is 950+VAT (although that said it's an extremely simple job - plug and play)

randombar

unkel wrote: »

Did they give you a quote of 1250 (including VAT) for supply and fit of the battery? That seems cheap as the battery is 950+VAT (although that said it's an extremely simple job - plug and play)

Yup. It will be ready to plug and play as part of the initial install. I've to sort out the BER myself

unkel

Nice. Best of luck with the install and keep us updated! Your location states Cork - does your installer only operate in your area or do they cover nationwide (Dublin)? And they are SEAI approved?

randombar

unkel wrote: »

Nice. Best of luck with the install and keep us updated! Your location states Cork - does your installer only operate in your area or do they cover nationwide (Dublin)? And they are SEAI approved?

Yup, have to lift a load of paving brick over the weekend and cut out some footpath and I should be good to go then.

Based in Cork.

Will check if he is nationwide, they are on the SEAI list all right.

antoinolachtnai

Do you know the type of battery setup for that money?

randombar

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

Do you know the type of battery setup for that money?

2.4kwh, dont know the brand but I'd say it wouldn't be bargain basement.

unkel

Most seem to use the Pylontech batteries. See my link in post #421

wexfordman2

Well, happy days, the final part of my pv install is being done tomorrow :-)

Only thing is I am away tomorrow night till Monday so won't get to see much of it

niallers1

Has anybody experienced applying for the rebate grant yet?

randombar

unkel wrote: »

Most seem to use the Pylontech batteries. See my link in post #421

Yup

randombar

Anyone has the ROI on a battery worked out, i.e. what price does a battery have to be to become worth it?

unkel

GaryCocs wrote: »

Anyone has the ROI on a battery worked out, i.e. what price does a battery have to be to become worth it?

See my post a page or two up and adjust the figures for your situation. If your paying a total of 1250 + VAT for the install, plus a BER minus 1000 subsidy you are looking at a pay back of about 5 years conservatively

Will you PM me the installer BTW

randombar

unkel wrote: »

See my post a page or two up and adjust the figures for your situation. If your paying a total of 1250 + VAT for the install, plus a BER minus 1000 subsidy you are looking at a pay back of about 5 years conservatively

Will you PM me the installer BTW

Figures are a bit different as it's more what % of time will you generate more than base load to store in a battery?

randombar

Have the trench dug for the inverter to run back to the house just wondering about Eddi installation afterwards.

Just wondering what wiring set up I'd need.

Do I need a control cable from inverter to fuse board? Or is it all done from fuse board or what's the story?

air

The load on the incomer needs to be measured by a CT in the hybrid inverter so that it can determine when to discharge.
This CT can be wired and wireless, but wired is obviously cheaper and more reliable.
The best place for the inverter is adjacent to your distribution unit assuming you have space available for it.

randombar

air wrote: »

The load on the incomer needs to be measured by a CT in the hybrid inverter so that it can determine when to discharge.
This CT can be wired and wireless, but wired is obviously cheaper and more reliable.
The best place for the inverter is adjacent to your distribution unit assuming you have space available for it.

What kind of wire would I need for the CT? I see mentions of RJ45 but I thought it would be a five core cable of some kind?

air

The CT will come with it's own cable. It's only a small single pair cable, it creates a voltage signal proportional to the current flowing through the wire. Something the size of an audio cable in diameter, they often use 3.5mm audio jacks in fact.
I wouldn't worry too much about it and let the installer look after it.

randombar

So up and running, well not right now or since 5pm

Very very neat job, impressed.

Also upgraded the power cable to the garage to a big ass one so I can put whatever I want out there going forward.

What I'm trying to figure out is if I need a separate device to measure consumption out at the meter board?

rolion

@ Gary

Great... any pictures !?

The CT cable,my understanding is that cannot be extended as is pre-calculated by length per voltage drop.

Measuring consumption...what do you mean ?
I have 3 devices doing the maths:OWL,Energenie and the inverter own dashboard.

What kind of esb reading meter you have : digital or analog ?

septicsac

I was thinking of investing in the PV solar power a while now, but the more I read hear the more confusing it gets. I have a large south facing dormer roof, could probably hold as many panels as is necessary. ESB bill roughly 130 pr month, 3 kids who love their devices and use plenty of hot water.
Had two quotes for systems without the battery:
Quote 1: 2.2kw system, 7 panels X 275 , with BER cert and diverter to heat water coming in at 3670 after grant and vat paid. Not sure whether this is around the going rate or not?
Quote 2: 1.8kw, standard inverter and diverter, 6 panels for 5200 after the grant, which sounds like they are completely taking the piss.
First quote was from company who would mainly do industrial installs and have done so for well renowned companies.
What kind of quotes are people getting for similar systems?
Is it worth going the battery option on this type of consumption?

rolion

I'm sure here are installers and/or profesionals that works in various companies and they will give you more free info.
Me,as a normal user,i will get a quote to fullfill the south faciing roof to maximum capacity.
The bigger panel array,the more power generated ,bigger excess that can be diverted and faster RoI overall.

Not sure about your house consumption,keep an eye on the meter and/or the bill and see when is the maximum consumption and whats the daily house/occupiers routine.Took me at least 8 months to do the maths based on the Sun positions.

I can guess but i will say at least minimum 5KW installed power (thats 300W panels x 16,in an array of 8 each).
That should give you a good return in the winter days (around 1Kwh worst days) and 4.5Kwh summer time (enough to power the house and divert to hot water cylinder).

Good luck.

LaterEdit

ANYONE care to share their ouput for the past couple of weeks !?
Or are you afraid ...

septicsac

According to electric Ireland website the average savings per yr would be 250 Euro...is that correct? If so the savings for a non battery system quoted to me would be a 12yr payback? If that is the case then methinks there might be bettr ways of spending the money?
Anyone any experience of real life savings, what they are saving on their monthly bill over the year?

wexfordman2

rolion wrote: »

I'm sure here are installers and/or profesionals that works in various companies and they will give you more free info.
Me,as a normal user,i will get a quote to fullfill the south faciing roof to maximum capacity.
The bigger panel array,the more power generated ,bigger excess that can be diverted and faster RoI overall.

Not sure about your house consumption,keep an eye on the meter and/or the bill and see when is the maximum consumption and whats the daily house/occupiers routine.Took me at least 8 months to do the maths based on the Sun positions.

I can guess but i will say at least minimum 5KW installed power (thats 300W panels x 16,in an array of 8 each).
That should give you a good return in the winter days (around 1Kwh worst days) and 4.5Kwh summer time (enough to power the house and divert to hot water cylinder).

Good luck.

LaterEdit

ANYONE care to share their ouput for the past couple of weeks !?
Or are you afraid ...

I have 5.85kwh solar, and am getting at the momebnt typically 2kwh per day, but a good clear day have seen that go up to 8kwh. Only had it in about 3 weeks

My monitoring system is solarman, not sure how to share the data ?

wexfordman2

septicsac wrote: »

I was thinking of investing in the PV solar power a while now, but the more I read hear the more confusing it gets. I have a large south facing dormer roof, could probably hold as many panels as is necessary. ESB bill roughly 130 pr month, 3 kids who love their devices and use plenty of hot water.
Had two quotes for systems without the battery:
Quote 1: 2.2kw system, 7 panels X 275 , with BER cert and diverter to heat water coming in at 3670 after grant and vat paid. Not sure whether this is around the going rate or not?
Quote 2: 1.8kw, standard inverter and diverter, 6 panels for 5200 after the grant, which sounds like they are completely taking the piss.
First quote was from company who would mainly do industrial installs and have done so for well renowned companies.
What kind of quotes are people getting for similar systems?
Is it worth going the battery option on this type of consumption?

I have a 5.85kwp solar, with 5kwh hybrid inverter, 6kwh battery and eddi hot water diverter. Price came in at 12k before grant, so 8,200 after grant.

Initial price from the same company for 4kwp solar, 5kwh battery and eddi diverter was 11k before grant, or 7,200 after grant.


also included was essential load wiring, to provide temporary power during outages. Debatable whether this will be of significant benefit, as 5kwh wont last long under normal house load, but if I managed it correctly, could get a few days out of it (keeping bb, and a few sockets for charging going)

rolion

septicsac wrote: »

According to electric Ireland website the average savings per yr would be 250 Euro...is that correct? If so the savings for a non battery system quoted to me would be a 12yr payback? If that is the case then methinks there might be bettr ways of spending the money?
Anyone any experience of real life savings, what they are saving on their monthly bill over the year?

Hard to say...i'm based Dublin,he's in Wexford...different location and appropiate system... from 1Kw to 8Kw massive difference isn't in a single day !??

Keep reading posts here and make your mind...is not like i will "invest" €8k and get them back in X years,never works like that, unfortunately whoever tells you about a RoI and payback period on PVs is fcuking lying and makes up the numbers for a well defined reason !

rolion

wexfordman2 wrote: »

also included was essential load wiring, to provide temporary power during outages. Debatable whether this will be of significant benefit, as 5kwh wont last long under normal house load, but if I managed it correctly, could get a few days out of it (keeping bb, and a few sockets for charging going)

May i ask you how did you made the maths on the 6KW battery could get it for few days !? I guesstimate that at a decent 500Wh ,your battery will go off in 10ish hours. For few days ,you may need to keep maybe under 100Wh load.

My basic critical minimum lights, the heat pump in the gas boiler and house alarms takes around 350Wh on the UPS battery.

septicsac

Thanks for the replies:
1 What is the general consensus on payback time? More or less than what likes of electric Ireland quote?
2 Wexfordman2 can you pm me the name of your installer, like to get a quote of them just to see how it compares to ones I already got
3 I'm in the north east, south facing, but obviously not as well located for PV than those further south.
4 Is the 6kw battery one battery or a couple linked together?
5 Can you decide to divert to heat water before filling battery or does i have to charge fully before diverting to heat water?
Any info much appreciated.

wexfordman2

rolion wrote: »

May i ask you how did you made the maths on the 6KW battery could get it for few days !? I guesstimate that at a decent 500Wh ,your battery will go off in 10ish hours. For few days ,you may need to keep maybe under 100Wh load.

My basic critical minimum lights, the heat pump in the gas boiler and house alarms takes around 350Wh on the UPS battery.

I am basing it on essential load only. My background consumption is around 400w, so yeah, based on that, abiut 12hrs.

However, i am going to implement essential load feature which I can wire a few sockets to, running lights, modem, router etc, so that should drop my background power dramatically during an outage.

Only thing I am not sure about is whether to keep the well runnnijg or not.

6kwh battery gives me about 5.4kwh as it knocks out at 10% power remaining.

KCross

wexfordman2 wrote: »

Only thing I am not sure about is whether to keep the well runnnijg or not.

I would consider that essential during an outage. It allows you to flush toilets and if you have a gas hob you can boil water etc. I would defo add the well to it and its not as if it is running all the time. It will only fire up when the pressure drops (i.e when you run water).

rolion

wexfordman2 wrote: »

I am basing it on essential load only. My background consumption is around 400w, so yeah, based on that, abiut 12hrs.

However, i am going to implement essential load feature which I can wire a few sockets to, running lights, modem, router etc, so that should drop my background power dramatically during an outage.

Only thing I am not sure about is whether to keep the well runnnijg or not.

6kwh battery gives me about 5.4kwh as it knocks out at 10% power remaining.

I know the hibrid inverter has a internal AC side only port for loads that can be used when the main grid is islanded,separated from the main output AC only.
You may be able to play with that !?
Not sure how that works with the battery, to "play" with the settings.

rolion

KCross wrote: »

I would consider that essential during an outage. It allows you to flush toilets and if you have a gas hob you can boil water etc. I would defo add the well to it and its not as if it is running all the time. It will only fire up when the pressure drops (i.e when you run water).

I'll say that pump goes to initial start-up stage 1,000W then drops to a more half during consumption ?
Tought myself to make the water pump "critical" as well but it will just kill the battery much faster.

KCross

rolion wrote: »

I'll say that pump goes to initial start-up stage 1,000W then drops to a more half during consumption ?
Tought myself to make the water pump "critical" as well but it will just kill the battery much faster.

Depends on the pump.... have you got a variable speed pump?

And 1kW for a second or two is not going to kill the battery.

septicsac

What is the general consensus on payback time? More or less than what likes of electric Ireland quote?
2 Wexfordman2 can you pm me the name of your installer, like to get a quote of them just to see how it compares to ones I already got
3 I'm in the north east, south facing, but obviously not as well located for PV than those further south.
4 Is the 6kw battery one battery or a couple linked together?
5 Can you decide to divert to heat water before filling battery or does i have to charge fully before diverting to heat water?
Any info much appreciated.

unkel

Both quotes are very poor value for money for a small system. And don't get an diverter if you are getting a small solar system. If you go large (>=4kwp) I would consider it.

rolion

KCross wrote: »

Depends on the pump.... have you got a variable speed pump?

And 1kW for a second or two is not going to kill the battery.

Actually offtopic,yes is a VFD ( Variable Frequency Drive) but your post seriously throw me in the hot press where is the solar tubes pump....hmm,looks like a new cable has to be ran sooner.
Thanks.

unkel

septicsac wrote: »

What is the general consensus on payback time?

There is no concensus. It depends largely on your use. But even with the subsidies, it's not great. If I was forced to put a number on it:

A large 4kwp with a small battery and diverter at about €6k installed incl VAT and after subsidies might have a pay back time of about 10-15 years if you already have gas or oil. If you don't, then it's shorter

Any other systems, except cheap DIY installs, have longer payback times

bluesteel

Supply & fit 1.5kw - 2.0kw solar pv including certs, warranties & commissioning item €6,500.00

this quote is excluding VAT (and before 50% SEAI grant)

I got this quote as part of my DeepRetrofit application.

Surely this is taking the pi$$ because of the grant levels involved?

I think active8 are the subcontractor...

dathi

bluesteel wrote: »

this quote is excluding VAT (and before 50% SEAI grant)

I got this quote as part of my DeepRetrofit application.

Surely this is taking the pi$$ because of the grant levels involved?

I think active8 are the subcontractor...

think you have answered your own question search the forum for the company lots of posts about them

unkel

bluesteel wrote: »

I think active8 are the subcontractor...

But, but, they'll show you figures that prove that you will save €3k per year off your bills and the solar PV panels will heat your house in winter too!

And they'll give you €1,000 off for placing a sign in your garden promoting them. You can't lose here, great system. Make sure both yourself and your wife are there for the sales pitch, so you can sign the contract immediately. No pressure of course, no obligation at all. As long as you sign. How could you not sign, you'll be saving a fortune? Here's my pen. Yes sign right there. Now please.



A source in the industry told me they are the biggest and most profitable solar installer in the country. Imagine the number of people having been ripped off

bluesteel

dathi wrote: »

think you have answered your own question search the forum for the company lots of posts about them

Well yeah, I'd heard that TBH

Wondering if the retrofit company is in on it


Given the tax payer money at stake, and the fact that there are only a few viable contractors (for Deep Retrofit) makes me sick..

Are the SEAI a bunch of dopes or what? The PV panels are required to get the A rating so I can't even leave them out.

I've a good mind to contact someone in the media or maybe even the Green Party


Just to establish a baseline - what's a reasonable cost for this system (2kW)?

unkel

bluesteel wrote: »

Just to establish a baseline - what's a reasonable cost for this system (2kW)?

A 2kwp system costs 1800+VAT in parts (everything included). So that's 2200 incl VAT. Plus install costs and profit. It takes about 1-2 man days to fit a system like that. So lets very generously say 400 labour and 500 profit, both plus VAT, so 2200 + (400+500)*123% = 3300 all in minus 1400 subsidy, so 1900 net to the owner incl VAT

Anything more and I would have question marks...