Domestic solar PV quotes 2018

unkel

PM me as well please. Is it the one I mentioned previously?

Evd-Burner

PM me also, I will keep it for future reference

unkel

A competent installer who obviously needs to make a profit, but isn't out ripping off people, deserves a lot of business.

jimmyging

Pm me as well please if you wouldn’t mind as unkel says these guys deserve the business

Mr Q

Has anyone with solar PV installed linked it with a heat pump? I have a heat pump that the manufacturer has two versions of an add on that will turn it on for heating or hot water when an excess of power is available from solar. Like a diverter but not directly into the heating element.

One version connects the inverter directly to the heat pump and the other uses a CT clamp to measure the excess. But I don't know anyone with this setup and would be very interested in this setup if i knew it worked well. Hopefully someone here will have or know someone with similar and have a view

KCross

What make HP is it?
I have a HP and looked into it but it wasn’t worth it but depends on what make you are talking about.

Stefs_42

unkel wrote: »

PM me as well please. Is it the one I mentioned previously?

not sure if thats the one, but ive sent you pm.

Mr Q

It is a NIBE. They do sell solar kits too but not here that i know of

unkel

Cheers Stefs_42, PM received. It was indeed the installer I mentioned before. I contacted all solar PV installers on the SEAI approved list and he was the only one who came back to me with a reasonable quote and also the only one who engaged with me in a meaningful discussion, someone who knows his stuff well.

I mentioned him in my thread here (with moderator approval):

Linky

Stefs_42

unkel wrote: »

Cheers Stefs_42, PM received. It was indeed the installer I mentioned before. I contacted all solar PV installers on the SEAI approved list and he was the only one who came back to me with a reasonable quote and also the only one who engaged with me in a meaningful discussion, someone who knows his stuff well.

I mentioned him in my thread here (with moderator approval):

Linky

yea he appeared to me that he knows good bit about PV systems! also installers work very clean, no mess left behind. whole installation done within 1 working day! i would highly recommend him

KCross

Mr Q wrote: »

It is a NIBE. They do sell solar kits too but not here that i know of

I have a Nibe. When I spoke to them last Aug they told me that it could only use the Solar power to heat an element for DHW... in effect a diverter.

They did say they were working on a new system but ultimately you can’t really use Solar to drive a HP because stopping and starting a compressor as the clouds roll over will trash your compressor in short order. It can only be used really as a diverter to drive the backup immersion of the HP.

Unless they have some new product out that works differently?

Mr Q

KCross wrote: »

I have a Nibe. When I spoke to them last Aug they told me that it could only use the Solar power to heat an element for DHW... in effect a diverter.

They did say they were working on a new system but ultimately you can’t really use Solar to drive a HP because stopping and starting a compressor as the clouds roll over will trash your compressor in short order. It can only be used really as a diverter to drive the backup immersion of the HP.

Unless they have some new product out that works differently?

I was looking at an EME 20 which in some of the documents states it can heat and cool the house with the solar excess. This is why i assumed it is using the heat pump and not the element directly. But the compressor start/stop issue is a good point.

Did you speak to NIBE directly or the Irish distributor? I am finding it difficult to get an definite answer on parts of this.

KCross

Mr Q wrote: »

I was looking at an EME 20 which in some of the documents states it can heat and cool the house with the solar excess. This is why i assumed it is using the heat pump and not the element directly. But the compressor start/stop issue is a good point.

Did you speak to NIBE directly or the Irish distributor? I am finding it difficult to get an definite answer on parts of this.

I spoke to the Irish distributor.

You would need a massive Solar array to drive a HP with the excess. Most HP's would need ~2kW+ to run.

How many hours of the day would you have that excess and the elephant in the room.... the hours when you do have that excess is largely in summer when you dont need the HP at all other than to heat water.... i.e. diverter!

SolarPV excess and HP's are not a good match unless there is some new type of compressor that can take low rates of power. I cant see how it would work at the times you need, without pulling expensive day rate electricity when the clouds roll over and crucially without over-cycling the compressor giving it an early death.

I'd need alot of convincing to connect SolarPV to my HP compressor.... you dont want that to die early in its life for a few measly euro's worth of electricity.

Evd-Burner

KCross wrote: »

I spoke to the Irish distributor.

You would need a massive Solar array to drive a HP with the excess. Most HP's would need ~2kW+ to run.

How many hours of the day would you have that excess and the elephant in the room.... the hours when you do have that excess is largely in summer when you dont need the HP at all other than to heat water.... i.e. diverter!

SolarPV excess and HP's are not a good match unless there is some new type of compressor that can take low rates of power. I cant see how it would work at the times you need, without pulling expensive day rate electricity when the clouds roll over and crucially without over-cycling the compressor giving it an early death.

I'd need alot of convincing to connect SolarPV to my HP compressor.... you dont want that to die early in its life for a few measly euro's worth of electricity.

With say a 4kw array with 4.8kwh worth of batteries would it not be better to just time the heatpump to come on during say mid April to mid October for a certain time of the day? The time could be adjusted depending on the month

Basically when you know the batteries are almost full and at a time during the day when there is still usually sunlight that the heatpump will come on, it won't pull anything from the grid in that case and will instead pull from the batteries if needed. Depending on the day the batteries would likely have time to still charge. I reckon I could write a script to do it (activate a relay that calls for heating the thermal mass), just don't have any of the equipment or data yet :P

KCross

Evd-Burner wrote: »

With say a 4kw array with 4.8kwh worth of batteries would it not be better to just time the heatpump to come on during say mid April to mid October for a certain time of the day? The time could be adjusted depending on the month

Basically when you know the batteries are almost full and at a time during the day when there is still usually sunlight that the heatpump will come on, it won't pull anything from the grid in that case and will instead pull from the batteries if needed. Depending on the day the batteries would likely have time to still charge. I reckon I could write a script to do it (activate a relay that calls for heating the thermal mass), just don't have any of the equipment or data yet :P

The Nibe, and Im sure others, allow you to connect relays to it and you can control those whatever way you wish. So you could leave the timers off and just drive a relay, via software, based on what you see on your Solar excess.

So, in theory yes, but April-Oct the HP is usually off except for heating hot water, which it does super efficienctly on night rate electricity.

So, the savings involved would be tiny. A simple diverter, which is what Nibe offered me last year, would be just as good and it wouldnt involve increasing the cycle count on your battery... which is an important consideration for Li-ion tech.

I just dont see an overall benefit of connecting SolarPV excess to the compressor even if it is technically possible.

Mr Q

KCross wrote: »

A simple diverter, which is what Nibe offered me last year

Did they say if this would just heat DHW or on a sunny but cold day also heat the house via rads of UFH?

Did you add anything along these lines to use the excess or go for a battery in the end.

KCross

Mr Q wrote: »

Did they say if this would just heat DHW or on a sunny but cold day also heat the house via rads of UFH?

Did you add anything along these lines to use the excess or go for a battery in the end.

All they had available last year was a diverter which sensed what was available from the SolarPV and it diverted that to an element in the tank.... nothing else.

It would not heat the underfloor.

He did say he was travelling to Sweden to see some new Solar integration thingy that Nibe were working on but I didnt get any subseuqent info on that. I think their plan was to provide Solar panels themselves and have some tighter integration built into their HP's but I dont have the fine detail.

Mr Q

KCross wrote: »

All they had available last year was a diverter which sensed what was available from the SolarPV and it diverted that to an element in the tank.... nothing else.

It would not heat the underfloor.

He did say he was travelling to Sweden to see some new Solar integration thingy that Nibe were working on but I didnt get any subseuqent info on that. I think their plan was to provide Solar panels themselves and have some tighter integration built into their HP's but I dont have the fine detail.

Thanks for the info on this KCross. They have solar kits on their .eu site now, I think I first seem their EME integration unit on the brochure for these. Not sure how much of the kit they actually make themselves.

Neil. J. F

Hi, I got a quote a few days ago from a well known home improvement company that have recently (March) started doing solar pv. They were the only one of the three installers that I got quotes from, that called to the house. The quote I got was for the installation of a 3kw 10 panel system with a 4.5kw battery plus immersion diverter. Cost to me €8.5k after grant. The hardware looks good, 20 year guarantee on the panels and 10 year guarantee- 6000 cycles on the battery
We have a night saver meter and last year we used about 1500 day units and 800 night units.
We'd like to do our bit for the environment but I would also like to at least break even over the 10ish years before the battery needs to be replaced.
We'd be doing an East West split and they informed me that I could expect in the region of 2200kwh per annum from the system v 2700kwh if we had a South facing roof. My own calculations suggest that the system would need to provide at least half of the night units plus some day units as well in order to pay for itself over the first 10 years anyway?
I also have a worry about compromising our 60 odd year old tiled roof during the rail instillation.
My question to the group is, am I likely to loose or gain in the long run?
Thanks folks!

Stefs_42

Neil. J. F wrote: »

Hi, I got a quote a few days ago from a well known home improvement company that have recently (March) started doing solar pv. They were the only one of the three installers that I got quotes from, that called to the house. The quote I got was for the installation of a 3kw 10 panel system with a 4.5kw battery plus immersion diverter. Cost to me €8.5k after grant. The hardware looks good, 20 year guarantee on the panels and 10 year guarantee- 6000 cycles on the battery
We have a night saver meter and last year we used about 1500 day units and 800 night units.
We'd like to do our bit for the environment but I would also like to at least break even over the 10ish years before the battery needs to be replaced.
We'd be doing an East West split and they informed me that I could expect in the region of 2200kwh per annum from the system v 2700kwh if we had a South facing roof. My own calculations suggest that the system would need to provide at least half of the night units plus some day units as well in order to pay for itself over the first 10 years anyway?
I also have a worry about compromising our 60 odd year old tiled roof during the rail instillation.
My question to the group is, am I likely to loose or gain in the long run?
Thanks folks!

thats a bit overpriced quote imho. i would suggest you shop around a bit more for better deal! im myself with only very recent install paid 9.2k before grants! (grant to be processed yet)

my system:
12x300w panels, (3.6kwp total)
hybrid inverter

3.5kw battery
about payback time- i would not worry much. whole idea of living greener appeals to me more. im way more conscious where and when im using my appliences now! and this changed thinking on its own will save you money!

unkel

Neil. J. F wrote: »

I would also like to at least break even over the 10ish year

That's not going to happen. Even if you got a much better quote than you did.

Your EW system is going to generate about 2.4MWh per year. If you use all of this yourself at the full day rate (and nothing goes to diversion), this is worth 2400 * 18c per year, or €432

In reality your savings will be a lot smaller. If you got your system for €6k, payback would be about 20 years. And don't get an immersion diverter, it will never pay for itself if you are paying for an SEAI installer to install it and your system is just 3kwp.

The good news is that it is quite possible your battery will last a lot longer than 10 years

gally74

unkel wrote: »

That's not going to happen. Even if you got a much better quote than you did.

Your EW system is going to generate about 2.4MWh per year. If you use all of this yourself at the full day rate (and nothing goes to diversion), this is worth 2400 * 18c per year, or €432

In reality your savings will be a lot smaller. If you got your system for €6k, payback would be about 20 years. And don't get an immersion diverter, it will never pay for itself if you are paying for an SEAI installer to install it and your system is just 3kwp.

The good news is that it is quite possible your battery will last a lot longer than 10 years

All depends on fit. Quote is dear. But once Leo gets some time to think . Fit will be accelerated.

jimmyging

Your EW system is going to generate about 2.4MWh per year. If you use all of this yourself at the full day rate (and nothing goes to diversion), this is worth 2400 * 18c per year, or €432

In reality your savings will be a lot smaller. If you got your system for €6k, payback would be about 20 years.

What ? My calculator says 14 years , where are you getting 20 year payback from unkel ?

Neil. J. F

Stefs_42 wrote: »

yea he appeared to me that he knows good bit about PV systems! also installers work very clean, no mess left behind. whole installation done within 1 working day! i would highly recommend him

Could you PM me details please, thanks!

Neil. J. F

Thanks for the replies everyone!
I like the idea of solar energy, we'd like to do our bit to reduce fossil fuel dependance but I've got to say, all the different quotes with different hardware, different guarantees, battery or no battery, diverter or no diverter, exaggerated claims of money that can be saved, plus the worry about how good any of these suppliers are at actually installing this gear without destroying my roof or frying the electrics, is making my head feel like it has absorbed too much solar energy!
Would I be correct in assuming that both Stefs_42 & unkel are happy with their systems & installers?
If so I'd be most grateful if you could PM me details of the systems you have and the installers you used, because recommendations in this area are hard to come by. Needless to say, other recommendations (via PM) from anybody who has had solar pv installed lately, would be most welcome.
Many thanks!

unkel

jimmyging wrote: »

where are you getting 20 year payback from unkel ?

He was quoted €8,500, but let's say he got it for €6,000

Max savings in theory is €432 per year. He'd do extremely well to have real life savings of €300 per year

€6,000 / €300 = 20 years

Note this doesn't allow for any maintenance, all parts are presumed to last 20 years, which is a big stretch for the battery and inverter. Also it doesn't take into account finance cost or the opportunity cost of money

Very much a best case scenario in other words

Indeed as people suggested, arrival of a FIT might change above figure and also increased eletricity prices

I'm a big fan of renewables, but I like people to have a realistic view of the cost involved. A lot of people are fed mickey mouse figures from their installer or from some online calculators that are dodgy

Agent_47

I have one contractor name so far and the one to avoid based on high cost

Cheers all, sorted. Thanks to all.

wexfordman2

Agent_47 wrote: »

Can anyone who knows who Wexfordman2 and DrPhilG used for the install please PM?

I have one contractor name so far and the one to avoid based on high cost

Cheers

Sorry, Agent, my PM's tend to be quite long, so was wating till i got in front of a laptop :-)

Just sent.

AidenL

It’s gone quiet in here!

How is the sunny weather treating you all?

unkel

I saw over 3.7kW today. Not bad when my inverter is only 3.6kW (and my panels are 3.8kwp and in two different direction strings)

Stefs_42

my max today 3.34kw happy out since my max system is only 3.6kw. shame tho as Mr Grid took most of it

AidenL

I saw 141kw being generated today on the array in our head office. :cool:

uck51js9zml2yt

Im really starting to rethink the idea.
I got an owl monitor and have been using on average 15 KW per day for the last week or so.

Am I right in thinking I'm unlikely to match that with 16 PV panels?

It "may" be worth getting the panels and diverter but the thoughts of a battery are quickly being reigned to the compost bin.
What's people's thoughts?

wexfordman2

Brecken Tart Newscast wrote: »

Im really starting to rethink the idea.
I got an owl monitor and have been using on average 15 KW per day for the last week or so.

Am I right in thinking I'm unlikely to match that with 16 PV panels?

It "may" be worth getting the panels and diverter but the thoughts of a battery are quickly being reigned to the compost bin.
What's people's thoughts?

16 panels without a battery will give you 1400 euro of a grant.

15 panels with a battery will give you 3,800 of a grant.

wexfordman2

AidenL wrote: »

I saw 141kw being generated today on the array in our head office. :cool:

22kwh on my.sustek today, and it was quite cloudy

KCross

Brecken Tart Newscast wrote: »

Im really starting to rethink the idea.
I got an owl monitor and have been using on average 15 KW per day for the last week or so.

Am I right in thinking I'm unlikely to match that with 16 PV panels?

It "may" be worth getting the panels and diverter but the thoughts of a battery are quickly being reigned to the compost bin.
What's people's thoughts?

You can add all the panels you like, it wont matter if you cant use what you generate.

Your total usage per day is irrelevant also. You need to know what time of the day you are using it and if that coincides with the sun shining!

If you add a battery, that gives you a longer time window per day to utilise what the panels generate but the cost goes up significantly by adding a battery so you have to keep that in mind if payback is important. Personally, batteries are not yet worth it.

wexfordman2

KCross wrote: »

Brecken Tart Newscast wrote: »

Im really starting to rethink the idea.
I got an owl monitor and have been using on average 15 KW per day for the last week or so.

Am I right in thinking I'm unlikely to match that with 16 PV panels?

It "may" be worth getting the panels and diverter but the thoughts of a battery are quickly being reigned to the compost bin.
What's people's thoughts?

You can add all the panels you like, it wont matter if you cant use what you generate.

Your total usage per day is irrelevant also. You need to know what time of the day you are using it and if that coincides with the sun shining!

If you add a battery, that gives you a longer time window per day to utilise what the panels generate but the cost goes up significantly by adding a battery so you have to keep that in mind if payback is important. Personally, batteries are not yet worth it.

Price the system with or without a battery, and see If the reduced seai grant makes it.viable.or not

unkel

Brecken Tart Newscast wrote: »

have been using on average 15 KW per day for the last week or so.

Am I right in thinking I'm unlikely to match that with 16 PV panels?

A south facing 16 panel system will generate about 4.8MWh per year. That's an average of 13kWh per day

Of course on a good day you will make 40kWh and on a very bad day you will make nothing

niallers1

KCross wrote: »

Personally, batteries are not yet worth it.

A pylontech lithium battery costs approx. 1k. SEAI grant for battery is 1k.

Why not go for the battery in this case?

unkel

niallers1 wrote: »

A pylontech lithium battery costs approx. 1k. SEAI grant for battery is 1k.

Why not go for the battery in this case?

Plus you need a hybrid inverter instead of a conventional one. That's another 1k extra. And you need to pay the SEAI installer for the install. Probably another several hundred quid.

The argument for getting the battery is that you get the additional €1,400 subsidy for going from 2kwp to 4kwp only if you go for battery install. So 4kwp without battery gets €1,400 subsidy and 4kwp with battery gets €3,800 subsidy, so it starts making sense then

Still, your pay back time is far shorter if you do a non-battery, non grant install

That said, If I had no PV, I would have probably gone for a 4kwp battery install using the grant if I had the space on my roof

Neil. J. F

Had a visit from one of the recommended pv installers from this thread. They are doing up quote and will keep you all updated.
We have a 60 year old tiled roof and I made a point of asking how this company fixes rails to the roof, the answer I got worries me, as he told me they drill through the tiles to a rafter and use bolts to fix the rail. Surely this is not best practice? The SEAI website states that this should not be done. Am I worrying to much?

niallers1

Neil. J. F wrote: »

Had a visit from one of the recommended pv installers from this thread. They are doing up quote and will keep you all updated.
We have a 60 year old tiled roof and I made a point of asking how this company fixes rails to the roof, the answer I got worries me, as he told me they drill through the tiles to a rafter and use bolts to fix the rail. Surely this is not best practice? The SEAI website states that this should not be done. Am I worrying to much?

Normal practice is to lift the tile and put roof hook bracket on rafter as far as I know. Possibly drill into rafter. Wouldn't be too pleased drilling into tile.

KCross

Neil. J. F wrote: »

Had a visit from one of the recommended pv installers from this thread. They are doing up quote and will keep you all updated.
We have a 60 year old tiled roof and I made a point of asking how this company fixes rails to the roof, the answer I got worries me, as he told me they drill through the tiles to a rafter and use bolts to fix the rail. Surely this is not best practice? The SEAI website states that this should not be done. Am I worrying to much?

Walk away. imo, thats the cowboy way of doing it.

It might be fine the day they leave but after 10 years of storms and rain i would not trust that it would still be fully sealed.

Neil. J. F

KCross wrote: »

Walk away. imo, thats the cowboy way of doing it.

It might be fine the day they leave but after 10 years of storms and rain i would not trust that it would still be fully sealed.

Thanks guys! And with a potential 6 panels either side of the roof, that's a lot of holes in my roof!

Gumbo

Current offer from Next Gen Power

We are the only company in Ireland that will install a complete system all from GivEnergy (Inverter, Battery & PV Protect)

You install a 14 panel array (4.55kw) from the award winning Q-Cells, inverter and 5.6kwh of battery storage for €10,500 plus VAT = €11,918
€3,800 of which is reclaimable from SEAI after the install
equaling a total cost of €8,118

First 10 customers to deposit will receive a free EDDI hot water diverter included!

Neil. J. F

Hi folks, got this quote yesterday. These are the guys that told me they drill through roof tiles to install rails :-(

Quotation Details:
• 12 x JA 375Wp All-Black Mono Crystalline GLASS to GLASS PV Module with 30Years Warranty.
• 1 x Solis 5.0kW Single Phase Grid Tied Hybrid Inverter
• 1 x 5.9kW Pylontech Li-Ion Battery Pack
• 1 x 3.0kW Eddie Power Diverter
• 1 x Projoy 4Pole Fireman Switch
• 1 x Electrical Materials, Fuses, etc...
• 1 x Full Install, Grid Commission and SEAI Grant paperwork’s handling.
• 1 x Solis Wifi kit and Free Solis Monitoring portal for Life.
• 1 x SEAI Grant Paperworks Management + 5 Years Labour Warranty
• 1 x BER Assessment
Your Solar PV System Design, Installation and RECI Certification will be carried out by SaveMeMoney`s in house Engineers.
System Cost Details (Inc. VAT, Inc SEAI Grant)
Total System Supply, Nationwide Installation and Commission € 8,700

Mr Q

Neil. J. F wrote: »

Hi folks, got this quote yesterday. These are the guys that told me they drill through roof tiles to install rails :-(

Quotation Details:
• 12 x JA 375Wp All-Black Mono Crystalline GLASS to GLASS PV Module with 30Years Warranty.
• 1 x Solis 5.0kW Single Phase Grid Tied Hybrid Inverter
• 1 x 5.9kW Pylontech Li-Ion Battery Pack
• 1 x 3.0kW Eddie Power Diverter
• 1 x Projoy 4Pole Fireman Switch
• 1 x Electrical Materials, Fuses, etc...
• 1 x Full Install, Grid Commission and SEAI Grant paperwork’s handling.
• 1 x Solis Wifi kit and Free Solis Monitoring portal for Life.
• 1 x SEAI Grant Paperworks Management + 5 Years Labour Warranty
• 1 x BER Assessment
Your Solar PV System Design, Installation and RECI Certification will be carried out by SaveMeMoney`s in house Engineers.
System Cost Details (Inc. VAT, Inc SEAI Grant)
Total System Supply, Nationwide Installation and Commission € 8,700

Are they 72 cell panels?

Neil. J. F

Mr Q wrote: »

Are they 72 cell panels?

No idea, I'm afraid

Neil. J. F

kceire wrote: »

Current offer from Next Gen Power

Has anybody out there had a system installed by this company?
They do not appear on the SEAI approved installers list.

uck51js9zml2yt

Neil. J. F wrote: »

Has anybody out there had a system installed by this company?
They do not appear on the SEAI approved installers list.

Several here have. Wexfordman for definite..,I think