Domestic solar PV quotes 2018

garo

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rolion wrote: »

Good reports,great systems,happy owners...
Hold your optimism for the winter months and i will chat again in spring 2020.

sometimes it seems to me that you don’t actualky read what other people have posted. My numbers describe a graph that is very similar to what you posted.

rolion

garo wrote: »

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sometimes it seems to me that you don’t actualky read what other people have posted. My numbers describe a graph that is very similar to what you posted.

Hi Garo,

Apologies for not understanding some numbers crunched out of simulation.
I promise i will read your posts twice and take time to digest it.

Sometimes,in my case anyway, i found that is easier to read a picture that some crunched numbers out of a piece of software.
My graph is real time for the past 12 months.
If you checked my previous posts, since 2016 i keep posting results from my DIY system with the graphs and live data.
I will change from graphs and pictures to a csv format next time.

AND,may i share a tip with you...you want better deep results of records & monitoring parameters,get a OWL PV solar unit...gives you all the data you need without errors adn / or forecasting and guessing the readings.


Also,you need or want to know at the fcukign half hour energy consumption and forwarding of your house !?
Check these guye H E R E ,they give you 30 minutes reading of your eHouse !
Real figures not chart or estimation ...

Enjoy harvesting the photons...

rolion

garo wrote: »

Didn't rolion figure out a way to charge his car using the excess? I defo plan on rigging something up once I get an EV. My car will be home during the day most of the time.

listermint wrote: »

He did.

Popping down to the local ESB charger during the day

unkel wrote: »

You can buy chargers that can do that, like the Zappi. I already have a charger that was installed for free (previous scheme) and to replace it with something like the Zappi which starts at €750 + install costs would never pay for itself.

The (realistic) aim of my home attached battery is to reduce to a minimum the high rate electricity I buy from the grid all year round. I don't mind so much buying 8c electricity from the grid at night when it is at the most environmentally friendly time to use grid electricity. And to be honest, I don't really care about my PV overproduction going back to the grid for free. Call it part of my contribution to revert climate change. That plus my family car being an EV and having 40 solar thermal tubes for my hot water. Limit flights and try eat a bit less meat.

A bit offtopic here,on the quotes topic.

Thanks to unkel i figured out how to manipulate the charging rates from the mobile app of my EV charger. That works fine for summer good PV days,when i can set & forget on 8A and let it charge even during the day.

The other type of charger listed by unkel is very hard to source and no user or praiser have had ever mentioned that even with a good PV array there is a minimum level of charging parameters that an EV car will stop operating.That is 8As on my car. So 8A by 240V gives around 1.8Kwh consumption from the PV array. Now,make the maths and see what size of array needs to be installed to power one hundred percent from the photons...
Just pure marketing...i will say.
Plus you will need the car at home during the harvesting, as so many of us have mentioned here.

unkel

Ioniq EV can charge at just 3A (760W) on the granny cable

I work from home most days and on a summer day I could plug it in and trickle charge all day, even on a fairly cloudy day

Can't be bothered with that though and the minimum on my EVSE charger is 20A (4.9kW), which even in full sunshine, will draw some power from the grid. Can't be bothered with that either so I am happy to just plug in at night.

I should have my big battery up before next spring, so I will most likely plug the car in on bright days when my battery is already full (at about 1PM I reckon) and then charge the car to 100% with solar PV only

garo

Thanks. I agree that a graph is easier to read.

So in summary either you babysit with a granny cable or you charge at night or at work or you see whether a smart charger makes sense. I suppose the min charge rate becomes a factor in vehicle choice then.

rolion

unkel wrote: »

Ioniq EV can charge at just 3A (760W) on the granny cable

I work from home most days and on a summer day I could plug it in and trickle charge all day, even on a fairly cloudy day

Can't be bothered with that though and the minimum on my EVSE charger is 20A (4.9kW), which even in full sunshine, will draw some power from the grid. Can't be bothered with that either so I am happy to just plug in at night.

I should have my big battery up before next spring, so I will most likely plug the car in on bright days when my battery is already full (at about 1PM I reckon) and then charge the car to 100% with solar PV only

Friendly advise: stay away from second hand plumb batteries in DIY systems.
If you are stubborn and still want to use them, make sure you and family are safe from them.
Save your "energy" and get a proper lithium setup that does more and better in terms of charging, discharging, capacity and lifetime.

unkel

You're starting to sound like a broken record, rolion.

How much does a lithium battery with 10kWh usable capacity cost? And about safety - a lithium battery inside your family home is a far bigger hazard than an AGM battery outside of your family home.

Stefs_42

Batfink69 wrote: »

Bump...Don't mind travelling a bit to pick up some hints and tips if someone wouldn't mind me having a look around their setup?

Thanks all, Bren

Im Sligo based. so if you dont mind travelling a bit feel free to check out my system

Batfink69

Stefs_42 wrote: »

Im Sligo based. so if you dont mind travelling a bit feel free to check out my system

I might take you up on that. Roofer has been and fitted the brackets for me. I'll fit the bars this weekend and then start looking at the electrics/panels.

Many thanks

Winterman1234

A few more prices today from one company,
prices including grant.

4kw array (10 x LG 400W bifacial), Solax 5kw hybrid inverter, Solax triple power 4.5kwh battery and eddi = €7491

3.8kw array (12 x JA 315W bifacial), Solax 5kw hybrid inverter, Solax tiple power 4.5kwh battery and eddi = €6291

3.8kw array (12 x JA 315W bifacial), Solax 5kw hybrid inverter, Solax triple power 6.3kwh battery and eddi =€6899

The batteries operate around the 100volt dc range not the typical 48V. Regarding the bifacial panels, both manufacturers state outputs ranging 5 -30% higher than panel ratings during direct sun conditions, not sure in real world conditions if there is actually any gain to be had. This is the first quote I received with the bifacial panels.

unkel

The second quote is very good value for money. Can they not stick a 13th panel in though for a tiny bit more money? You'd get an additional 200wp / €700 per kwp, or €140 subsidy. That's more than the cost of a panel (and there is probably not too much extra labour / materials required). Or do you not have the space for it?

Did you get any links to the spec sheets of the inverter and batteries? Most systems I have come across (in this thread) would be 48V. Would be interesting to see the specs for that system

I'd also try get a quote without the Eddi. If that shaves €500 off the bill, I would go without it. It would have been a waste of an investment if we do end up getting a FIT (which many say is quite likely)

Winterman1234

unkel wrote: »

The second quote is very good value for money. Can they not stick a 13th panel in though for a tiny bit more money? You'd get an additional 200wp / €700 per kwp, or €140 subsidy. That's more than the cost of a panel (and there is probably not too much extra labour / materials required). Or do you not have the space for it?

Did you get any links to the spec sheets of the inverter and batteries? Most systems I have come across (in this thread) would be 48V. Would be interesting to see the specs for that system

I'd also try get a quote without the Eddi. If that shaves €500 off the bill, I would go without it. It would have been a waste of an investment if we do end up getting a FIT (which many say is quite likely)

Room is no problem, plenty of southeast facing roof space. Battery datasheet attached hopefully!

Winterman1234

Solax website is currently giving me a 404, which may not be a great sign.

But details of solax hybrid x1 5kw inverter below

https://www.alma-solarshop.com/solax-power-inverter/982-hybrid-solax-inverter-x1-50t-hv.html

unkel

Big benefit of the 100V system is that even the smaller battery can charge / discharge at 2.5kW continously. That's a lot more than the 48V competition. It actually makes sense that while batteries are still expensive and people can only afford a 2-4kWh battery, to make them higher voltage.

Alkers

Winterman1234 wrote: »

A few more prices today from one company,
prices including grant.

4kw array (10 x LG 400W bifacial), Solax 5kw hybrid inverter, Solax triple power 4.5kwh battery and eddi = €7491

3.8kw array (12 x JA 315W bifacial), Solax 5kw hybrid inverter, Solax tiple power 4.5kwh battery and eddi = €6291

3.8kw array (12 x JA 315W bifacial), Solax 5kw hybrid inverter, Solax triple power 6.3kwh battery and eddi =€6899

The batteries operate around the 100volt dc range not the typical 48V. Regarding the bifacial panels, both manufacturers state outputs ranging 5 -30% higher than panel ratings during direct sun conditions, not sure in real world conditions if there is actually any gain to be had. This is the first quote I received with the bifacial panels.

Before or after grant?

unkel

Alkers wrote: »

Before or after grant?

I take it that's not a serious question? The cost of the materials alone would be close enough to the quoted prices before the grant and they sure ain't doing the install job for free

Charlie-Bravo

Will there be a bit of a lull over the winter season for installers? Would you get a better price when there's guys are not as busy, or is business motoring well?

unkel

Hard to say but those quotes that Winterman got are about the best we have seen in this thread. Looks like now is a good time!

garo

Yes agree. Those are excellent quotes. If the people giving those quotes know what they are doing that is far and away the best deal on this thread. Also agree about the 13th panel for maximising the subsidy and asking for the white withiut the Eddi. I assume the installation here will not require scaffolding because otherwise it is a steal!

Winterman1234

garo wrote: »

Yes agree. Those are excellent quotes. If the people giving those quotes know what they are doing that is far and away the best deal on this thread. Also agree about the 13th panel for maximising the subsidy and asking for the white withiut the Eddi. I assume the installation here will not require scaffolding because otherwise it is a steal!

Yes a bunglow with tiled roof so that helps, price for adding 13th panel is €250, which in comparsion to rest of quote I thought was abit high. I have asked for a price without eddi, but they seem to very much want me to keep this. They are to get back to me next week with price difference.
This company ask 50% up front and reminder on day of completion, which I suppose is far enough. Another company I talked to said final payment only made when grant received.

The only concern I have is that they have no installations around the north west, would be nice to see quality of their installations.

air

I wouldn't have thought there would be any benefit from bifacial panels when installed roof mounted?

My understanding was that they benefited from diffuse (or reflected) light hitting the rear of the panels, but surely something like an open ground mount would be required to facilitate this?

The first result I found when searching for them seems to confirm this.

unkel

I would generally ignore any but the cheapest panels. Any "upgrade" to a panel from a well known make, better materials, longer warranty, fancy features, etc. will increase the pay back time of the system and won't give you any noticeable benefits.

garo

Good point on the bifacial bit. Ask if non-bifacial panels are cheaper.

One more thing. Confirm that these prices are after VAT.

Alkers

unkel wrote: »

I take it that's not a serious question? The cost of the materials alone would be close enough to the quoted prices before the grant and they sure ain't doing the install job for free

Of course it was a serious question, not everyone is fully up to speed on the individual pricing of each of the elements mentioned and it wasn't stated in the post so I queried it.

What is the performance increase of the listed items Vs the typical pyonlontech battery etc included in quotes.

I've had quotes of sub 5k (post grant) for 3.75kW array with 2.4kWh battery and no diverter so I don't think my query was that mad?!

air

Alkers wrote: »

I've had quotes of sub 5k (post grant) for 3.75kW array with 2.4kWh battery and no diverter so I don't think my query was that mad?!

That sounds great. Could you share the company name via PM?

unkel

Alkers wrote: »

I've had quotes of sub 5k (post grant) for 3.75kW array with 2.4kWh battery and no diverter so I don't think my query was that mad?!

Did you post those? I don't remember any sub 5k quotes for a battery system in this thread.

Alkers

unkel wrote: »

Did you post those? I don't remember any sub 5k quotes for a battery system in this thread.

Don't think so actually, will post once I get onto pc. Haven't gone ahead with anything this close to the budget.

unkel

If I were you I'd go ahead straight away

garo

unkel wrote: »

I guess you can come back here on the first anniversary of your system and tell us if it did make the 3.53MWh (your system is 4kwp, right?)

I'll do the same, but I expect my 3.8kwp in sunny west Dublin (limited by my 3.6kW inverter) S/W (but mostly south) to have generated close enough to 3.6MWh, possibly even a bit more.

Sep predicted: 355kWh
Actual: 350.9

Note this is power at the panel so does not take inverter inefficiencies into account.

garo

garo wrote: »

Sep predicted: 355kWh
Actual: 350.9

Note this is power at the panel so does not take inverter inefficiencies into account.

Power at the panel. Interesting. Are you metering the panel DC input to the charge controller/inverter-charger?

garo

Isn’t that where the inverter measures? On the input strings?

Alkers

Alkers wrote: »

Don't think so actually, will post once I get onto pc. Haven't gone ahead with anything this close to the budget.

As promised:
Option #1

8 x Bisol 375w Monocrystalline modules (3.0kWp)(All black modules)

Bisol Mounting system

Santon Fire Safety Switch

Santon Switch Gear

Sofar 3.0 kWp Inverter kitted to 2.4kWh Pylon Tech storage capacity

Costing

€7750(inclusive of VAT)

€3100 (SEAI Grant)

€4650 Final cost after grant incentive



Option #2

10 x Bisol 375w Monocrystalline modules (3.75kWp)(All black modules)

Bisol Mounting system

Santon Fire Safety Switch

Santon Switch Gear

Sofar 4.0kWp Inverter kitted to 2.4kWh Pylon Tech storage capacity

Costing

€8550(inclusive of VAT)

€3625(SEAI Grant)

€4925 Final cost after grant incentive



There were also more expensive (+€1k to each) using 4.5kWh batteries - I believe they were solax

unkel

Alkers wrote: »

€4925 Final cost after grant incentive

If you are serious, ring them (or better visit them) tell them you are ready to do the deal and make the down payment there and then and offer them 5 grand if they stick in one more panel.

You will have got yourself a super deal.

garo

garo wrote: »

Isn’t that where the inverter measures? On the input strings?

Output power.

Imported self-consumption at idle not registered usually.

garo

Actually you are probably correct. Went to the inverter and it has two values in its LCD: E_pv and E_ac and the value in the app corresponds with E_ac.

gally74

Has anyone managed to get an import export meter installed yet?

air

gally74 wrote: »

Has anyone managed to get an import export meter installed yet?

I got one installed several years ago, €340 fairly straightforward..

unkel

air wrote: »

I got one installed several years ago, €340 fairly straightforward..

Why? To avail of the old FIT scheme back then I presume? Or is there any other reason why anyone would part with serious money for one that doesn't give any benefits except giving you some stats on what you exported?

air

Yes, for the FIT.
I'm not a complete idiot
It was a gamble as the scheme is only extended annually but it has paid for itself a few times now thankfully.

I'm not so sure why they charge so much for it tbh, the meters are pretty inexpensive.

spose

ESB networks rang me after I submitted my microgeneration form to know if I wanted the import/export meter. When I asked whether the new smart meters would all have the ability to track import/export I was told yes but this is an additional setting on the meter that will not be turned on. Presuming it will then be €340 to turn it on

air

air wrote: »

I'm not so sure why they charge so much for it tbh, the meters are pretty inexpensive.

It's worth €50 they can charge what they want...what's the alternative?

spose

spose wrote: »

When I asked whether the new smart meters would all have the ability to track import/export I was told yes but this is an additional setting on the meter that will not be turned on.

I wonder do they work well inside faraday cages?

unkel

Sir Liamalot wrote: »

It's worth €50 they can charge what they want...what's the alternative?

And they expect us to cough up €340 if we want to be paid a €0.05/kWh FIT?

That means we won't get paid a cent for the first 7,000kWh we send back to the grid.

Fook that. I'm not paying €340. I'd rather send all my overproduction to the grid for free rather than pay a wad of cash up front to maybe get a pittance in return in 4 years time.

Yurp.
ESB meter, ESB problem.

I don't charge my clients every time I need a new screwdriver.

eamon_l

Alkers wrote: »

As promised:
Option #1

8 x Bisol 375w Monocrystalline modules (3.0kWp)(All black modules)

Bisol Mounting system

Santon Fire Safety Switch

Santon Switch Gear

Sofar 3.0 kWp Inverter kitted to 2.4kWh Pylon Tech storage capacity

Costing

€7750(inclusive of VAT)

€3100 (SEAI Grant)

€4650 Final cost after grant incentive

Please let me know who you got the quote from please

gally74

Any expectations for tomorrow?

garo

gally74 wrote: »

Any expectations for tomorrow?

Expected SFA. Got SFA.

KCross

They did allocate money for the Solar PV grant but nothing new as such. No mention of FiT!!!

air

The government is directed by civil servants and various commercial interest groups and as such it should be no surprise that all policy is shaped to benefit one party or the other (or themselves obviously!)

The SEAI stands to maintain or increase it's workforce by continuing with needlessly bureaucracratic grant schemes. This benefits the head of SEAI as he or she is now more secure and head of a bigger organisation, more wage and pension potential.

A FIT will potentially reduce profits for energy suppliers and so they will lobby against it.

I'm not in the least surprised that no FIT was announced.

I seem to recall an EU court case which mandated us to introduce one recently though?

KCross

You dont suffer from cynicism do you @air!!