Domestic solar PV quotes 2018

Zenith74

Anybody who had a system installed recently received the grant from SEAI? My paperwork went in about 4 weeks ago but it is still pending, curious what the norm is.

garo

It took me a bit more than 2 months to get the money in the bank. You can call them to find out what stage your application is at. You might be able to move things along that way.

MAULBROOK

My grant was paid in a month, my installer was stunned how quick it was.
Just lucky I guess.

Winterman1234

Zenith74 wrote: »

Anybody who had a system installed recently received the grant from SEAI? My paperwork went in about 4 weeks ago but it is still pending, curious what the norm is.

Mines went in about 3 weeks ago, got an email on.monday to say information was missing. It was on one of the installer section he had forgot to put in company name in one of the 4 boxes that has to be completed after installation. Going around in circles now, he fills it in, I ring seai but they cant see it, say get installer to complete the missing information, not overly helpful. This is the new grant, anyone have similar problems.

Nedved85

Hi all,

Any ideas how much it would roughly cost to supply and install 10 solar panels on a steel shed.

Power cable is ready to go so it would just be 10 x panels and the inverter plus any other electrics required.

Grant not applicable.

Cheers

garo

Just keep at it winterman. I had a few back and forths between installer and SEAI. Eventually got sorted but missing documentation is a common issue. SEAI is rather particular and installers are often not as diligent as you would want.

Bif

Folks,
Hope someone can help...If I have 2kw of PV panels what is the % average output over a year on a 40 degree south facing roof? Many thanks.

garo

https://aces.nmsu.edu/pubs/_circulars/CR674/CR674.xlsm

Average is a useless number as you will get 5-10 times the production in June as is December. Rule of thumb in Ireland is 1000kWh of production for every kWp installed.

championc

Bif wrote: »

Folks,
Hope someone can help...If I have 2kw of PV panels what is the % average output over a year on a 40 degree south facing roof? Many thanks.

Look at the Solar PV Performance Thread, to get some indication as to how well your system is performing.

But based on my own 2.7kw system, which is on a 22 deg South facing roof, the difference in the output of 10 degrees of the sun height has been fairly massive.

I'd guess, if you were close to South facing, you should be producing at least 1.5kw at high noon now (or when the panels are directed straight towards the sun)

Gazzler82

so for the hooley over the weekend i produced a net present value calculation on a solar system. In theory - once this figure is positive you proceed - if its negative - you don't.

In theory this is what one should use when making an investment decision.

first health warning - i know a lot on the theory of this but never practically produced one before.

It has a number of advantages over the "payback" method but most importantly it accounts for the time value of money.
Given a PV system should last 25 years and most paybacks mentioned are less than 15 years it makes perfect sense to always install...however i didn't see much mention of replacement of inverter/batteries/degradation of solar performance.

2nd Health warning - there are lots of assumptions in the model - change the inputs/change the output NPV
all increase in pricing is linear- though one could change this for random changes in years ahead (which is the advantage that an NPV calculation has over say ROI or Internal rate of return (IRR))

so to it then - all boxes highlight in yellow (i've attempted to lock the rest of the spreadsheet - never did this before either) can be changed by a user.
system size in KWh - this is multiple by 1000 per Garo above for annual production
panel degradation - on your spec sheet stick in the value in year 25- annual interpolation is then done to reduce annual production
Cost - to you inclusive of grant
% used - how much of production you actually use (i'm going for no battery - with battery this will be higher so accounted for here) - i'm assume 35% as someone at home 4 days a week and changing the wmaching/dryer/dishwasher cycle
Start energy cost - what your unit cost rate is (ie your saving) 15c for me
energy cost increase - annual expected increase in unit electricity cost - gone for 5%
FIT - of there is ever one (assumed flat) - 5c per unit
Discount rate - the most important factor - this equates future cashflows in todays terms - higher discount rate means future cashflows (savings) are worth less in todays terms - in theory should be the investment hurdle rate/opportunity return given up/cost of capital - i've decided on 4% for me - (hope to average 3% salary increase/mtg rate and then an extra 1% for the risk) its a utility investment as well so these are generally regulated for low returns as well

finally there is a line which you can change - I've put in a new diverter after 10 and 20 years - just make sure to put it in as negative outlay!!




all thoughts comments queries appreciated

Gazzler82

Gazzler82 wrote: »

so for the hooley over the weekend i produced a net present value calculation on a solar system. In theory - once this figure is positive you proceed - if its negative - you don't.

In theory this is what one should use when making an investment decision.

first health warning - i know a lot on the theory of this but never practically produced one before.

It has a number of advantages over the "payback" method but most importantly it accounts for the time value of money.
Given a PV system should last 25 years and most paybacks mentioned are less than 15 years it makes perfect sense to always install...however i didn't see much mention of replacement of inverter/batteries/degradation of solar performance.

2nd Health warning - there are lots of assumptions in the model - change the inputs/change the output NPV
all increase in pricing is linear- though one could change this for random changes in years ahead (which is the advantage that an NPV calculation has over say ROI or Internal rate of return (IRR))

so to it then - all boxes highlight in yellow (i've attempted to lock the rest of the spreadsheet - never did this before either) can be changed by a user.
system size in KWh - this is multiple by 1000 per Garo above for annual production
panel degradation - on your spec sheet stick in the value in year 25- annual interpolation is then done to reduce annual production
Cost - to you inclusive of grant
% used - how much of production you actually use (i'm going for no battery - with battery this will be higher so accounted for here) - i'm assume 35% as someone at home 4 days a week and changing the wmaching/dryer/dishwasher cycle
Start energy cost - what your unit cost rate is (ie your saving) 15c for me
energy cost increase - annual expected increase in unit electricity cost - gone for 5%
FIT - of there is ever one (assumed flat) - 5c per unit
Discount rate - the most important factor - this equates future cashflows in todays terms - higher discount rate means future cashflows (savings) are worth less in todays terms - in theory should be the investment hurdle rate/opportunity return given up/cost of capital - i've decided on 4% for me - (hope to average 3% salary increase/mtg rate and then an extra 1% for the risk) its a utility investment as well so these are generally regulated for low returns as well

finally there is a line which you can change - I've put in a new diverter after 10 and 20 years - just make sure to put it in as negative outlay!!




all thoughts comments queries appreciated

as a new user i can't post the link to the spreadsheet
happy to share via PM with a Mod if they can share!!

Nedved85

Gazzler82 wrote: »

as a new user i can't post the link to the spreadsheet
happy to share via PM with a Mod if they can share!!

Could you send me the link via pm. Cheers

garo

PM me the link and I will look it over/post. I would say 35% self consumption is low if you are home 4 days a week. It does depend on your annual consumption vs installed size.

Padre_Pio

Hi all,

I'm looking to buy about 200-300w of solar panels for an off grid camper van.

Would anyone have recommendations on where to go for inexpensive or second hand panels?

Thanks!

championc

garo wrote: »

PM me the link and I will look it over/post. I would say 35% self consumption is low if you are home 4 days a week. It does depend on your annual consumption vs installed size.

I'm surprised at production amounts right now when the sun comes out. Our house daytime "idle" state is possibly under 400w so my 2.7kw system is well and truely exceeding this when it's even hazy sunshine. My roof is quite flat (only 22deg) so any in the 30's would be over 65% even this early in the year I would have thought. I'm sure most systems will show the power produced and consumed.

Mine currently says that my monthly self use rate is 38.62%. This will decrease as production gets higher. Thankfully for me, the remaining 61.38% goes to my batteries, but it won't be long before i'll be exporting loads to the grid I reckon

Shefwedfan

Padre_Pio wrote: »

Hi all,

I'm looking to buy about 200-300w of solar panels for an off grid camper van.

Would anyone have recommendations on where to go for inexpensive or second hand panels?

Thanks!

Check on amazon and some UK sites, they have little kits available for caravans that would be best option.

gman2k

Shefwedfan wrote:

Check on amazon and some UK sites, they have little kits available for caravans that would be best option.

What about a single 330w panel from the likes of Solartricity?

Gazzler82

garo wrote: »

PM me the link and I will look it over/post. I would say 35% self consumption is low if you are home 4 days a week. It does depend on your annual consumption vs installed size.

Avg last 2 years has been 5600kw
Have quotes in at 3kw and 4kw systems at moment and expecting 2 more in. 3kw is winning at the moment!

garo

championc wrote: »

I'm surprised at production amounts right now when the sun comes out. Our house daytime "idle" state is possibly under 400w so my 2.7kw system is well and truely exceeding this when it's even hazy sunshine. My roof is quite flat (only 22deg) so any in the 30's would be over 65% even this early in the year I would have thought. I'm sure most systems will show the power produced and consumed.

Mine currently says that my monthly self use rate is 38.62%. This will decrease as production gets higher. Thankfully for me, the remaining 61.38% goes to my batteries, but it won't be long before i'll be exporting loads to the grid I reckon

Very accurate. The name of the game is to put on the heavy electricity users such as dishwasher and dryer during peak production hours. No was you will consume all you produce from mid-April to mid-August.

reklamos

Mickeroo wrote: »

Quick question for those with solis inverter & pylontech battery set ups. Is it fairly straight forward to add additional batteries yourself once you're set up or would you need to be giving a leccy a shout each time you want to add one?

It is easy enough to do that. The battery manual is pretty good. Just need to daisy chain them properly and that is it. I have 2 at the moment.

Chewbaca79

Hi again guys,

Been shopping around since my last quote and now have the following:

16 x 400w (6.4kw total output) All-Black Mono Crystalline PV Module
1 x Solax 5kw Single Phase Standard/ Hybrid Grid Tied Inverter
1 x Solax 5.8kw Li-Ion Battery Pack - on the advice from Garo, unkel, Zenith74 in an earlier post I have told the supplier that i didnt want a battery as I will have an EV and so planned to use any excess above base load to charge the car at home during the day.
1 x Eddi / Iboost Power Diverter

Including standard additional items:
1 x Projoy 4Pole Fireman Switch
1 x Electrical Materials, Fuses, etc...
1 x Full Install and Grid Commission
1 x Solis Wifi Kit and Free Solis Monitoring Portal for Life
1 x SEAI Grant Paperwork Management Including BER Assessment for the Grant.
5 Years Labour Warranty

Total Cost (Inc. VAT, ex. SEAI Grant) €15,100
Potential SEAI Grants: €3,000
Net price: €12,100
Annual Savings with 18c/kWH (25c inc): €1,625 - €1,750

As mentioned above I actually asked for the quote without the battery the supplier said there is a discounted price for the inverter and battery as a bundle package and so there is only about €500 difference with installing the inverter on its own. The original idea of not going with the battery was to use the Zappi charger I already have to charge the EV during the day as the car is parked at home most of the time - therefore negating the need for a battery. Presumably if I insist on removing the battery from the quote the grant amount will also decrease.

Would be great to get peoples thoughts overall on the competitiveness of the quote and battery yes or no?

Cheers

handpref

Chewbaca79 wrote: »

Hi again guys,

Been shopping around since my last quote and now have the following:

16 x 400w (6.4kw total output) All-Black Mono Crystalline PV Module
1 x Solax 5kw Single Phase Standard/ Hybrid Grid Tied Inverter
1 x Solax 5.8kw Li-Ion Battery Pack - on the advice from Garo, unkel, Zenith74 in an earlier post I have told the supplier that i didnt want a battery as I will have an EV and so planned to use any excess above base load to charge the car at home during the day.
1 x Eddi / Iboost Power Diverter

Including standard additional items:
1 x Projoy 4Pole Fireman Switch
1 x Electrical Materials, Fuses, etc...
1 x Full Install and Grid Commission
1 x Solis Wifi Kit and Free Solis Monitoring Portal for Life
1 x SEAI Grant Paperwork Management Including BER Assessment for the Grant.
5 Years Labour Warranty

Total Cost (Inc. VAT, ex. SEAI Grant) €15,100
Potential SEAI Grants: €3,000
Net price: €12,100
Annual Savings with 18c/kWH (25c inc): €1,625 - €1,750

As mentioned above I actually asked for the quote without the battery the supplier said there is a discounted price for the inverter and battery as a bundle package and so there is only about €500 difference with installing the inverter on its own. The original idea of not going with the battery was to use the Zappi charger I already have to charge the EV during the day as the car is parked at home most of the time - therefore negating the need for a battery. Presumably if I insist on removing the battery from the quote the grant amount will also decrease.

Would be great to get peoples thoughts overall on the competitiveness of the quote and battery yes or no?

Cheers

What’s your orientation / roof layout ?

Mickeroo

Without battery the grant will only be €1,800. There should be a good bit more than 500 euro difference between the prices though because you should be getting a simpler inverter not the one included in a battery bundle. They're trying to gouge you a bit there imo.

Think I got a quote yesterday from the same company, they were by far the most expensive quote I got out of the 4 companies that got back to me. 9,400 before VAT for a ten panel system with no battery or diverter. Another 3 grand or so on top of that if battery/diverter were included.

Chewbaca79

handpref wrote: »

What’s your orientation / roof layout ?

Roof(s) orientations is south, and likely set up will be two strings of panels 8 + 8 on two south facing roofs in West Cork without shading

unkel

Chewbaca79 wrote: »

Annual Savings with 18c/kWH (25c inc): €1,625 - €1,750

Who gave you that figure? They should be shot. Your annual saving is only a fraction of that.

garo

Too expensive. Any reason why they are going for 400W panels? Also your annual savings are a bit too high. They are assuming almost 10k units coming from solar every year. That's crazy even with your high output. You have consumed 9k units total on average for the last 7 years. And more than half of them have been on the night rate. With that sort of a system I seriously doubt you would save even 800 p.a. Given the inflated savings number, I don't think this company/salesman is being honest with you.

Zenith74

I emailed SEAI the other day to chase up on my grant coming through, got an email back the very next day saying I was the proud nominee for an onsite inspection, which is to happen in a week or so. Most likely unrelated timing

garo

Gah! I had the same honour. If it makes you feel better I got the grant 2 weeks after the inspection date.

Mickeroo

Is the inspection part of the grant process or is it just something they're doing to survey what kind of installs people are getting?

garo

Gazzler82's google spreadsheet which is very useful in fugring out payback time. You can only edit the green cells.

PV Payback

garo

Mickeroo it is random. Some people get the honour. Usually they inspect installations from newer companies more than well-established ones that have a track record of installation approvals.

Chewbaca79

garo wrote: »

Too expensive. Any reason why they are going for 400W panels? Also your annual savings are a bit too high. They are assuming almost 10k units coming from solar every year. That's crazy even with your high output. You have consumed 9k units total on average for the last 7 years. And more than half of them have been on the night rate. With that sort of a system I seriously doubt you would save even 800 p.a. Given the inflated savings number, I don't think this company/salesman is being honest with you.

I had also discussed with them 20 x 310w panels (smaller dimensions than the 400w) to give me 6.2kw - the 400w panels were in the final quote as I had asked them to maximise the system size as I'll have the EV at home during the day so can charge that using the zappi.

So should I reduce the system size? And what are your thoughts on the battery?

For ref again below is my unit usage:

Over 7 years & 1 month my usage has been as follows:
37,411 units night rate (60% of total)
25,314 units day rate (averaging 297 units per month) (40% of total)

reklamos

Chewbaca79 wrote: »

Roof(s) orientations is south, and likely set up will be two strings of panels 8 + 8 on two south facing roofs in West Cork without shading

I would expect inverter then at least to match the panels. There is a big gap between 6.4kw and 5kw.
With south facing roof I already reaching 4.6kw with my 4.5kw setup and it is only February.

garo

Get prices for both 20*310 and 16*400. Will your EV be at home during the day to soak up production? You'll probably get 20kW excess per day if not more with a 6kW system from May onward.

And yeah you need a bigger inverter otherwise you will have a lot of curtailed power going to waste.

Chewbaca79

garo wrote: »

Get prices for both 20*310 and 16*400. Will your EV be at home during the day to soak up production? You'll probably get 20kW excess per day if not more with a 6kW system from May onward.

And yeah you need a bigger inverter otherwise you will have a lot of curtailed power going to waste.

OK - thanks Garo will do - yeah, the EV (75kw) battery will be parked at home during the day so will be able to take advantage of the excess - will ask about a larger inverter as well.

What do you think about the battery? - they have included 5.8kw in the quote even though I didnt ask for it and said there is minimal saving €500 by removing it due to a discounted price for getting the solax battery & inverter together.

What do you think?

garo

I find it really hard to believe that there is a minimal 500 euro difference. You would get an additional 1200 in grant but 5.8kWh of battery would cost at least 2000E at trade prices and 500E extra for the hybrid inverter. They are trying to hard sell a battery which you may or may not need. I'd say move on and look at other suppliers. The system is far too expensive and they are not being honest about payback.

championc

If the car will be parked at home so much, how much power to you expect the car to use ?

An EV will possibly average 6km per kw, so how much power do you need per day / per week ?

dan.lambert

Hi wexfordman2
Our smart Home devices are added and controlled through a seperate app at the minute "SAVEnergy" This is also available on the APP store. The integration with the GivEnergy Cloud will be later on in the year.

jimbobmalones

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Check on amazon and some UK sites, they have little kits available for caravans that would be best option.

solartricity.ie sell 300w panels but they are 1.6m by 1m so not sure if that would suit your roof


J

Shefwedfan

jimbobmalones wrote: »

solartricity.ie sell 300w panels but they are 1.6m by 1m so not sure if that would suit your roof


J

Based on the post standard panels would be too big

Charlie-Bravo

I have an awkward front roof which is best angled for SW. I could put some on the NE which is a better shape but would not get as much direct sunlight.

What sizes are the common panels? Hoping to see if I can max the SW side with the best number/output.

garo

1.6-1.8 by 1m is a pretty common dimension for 300-325W panels. Look at the datasheets linked here:

Gazzler82

Ok final scores on the doors - got quotes from 5 different installers. Looked for 10 panels - no battery, no hot water diverter. Scaled them for cost per watt and then adjusted further for "quality" by dividing by yield at 25 years!


Supplier Cost incl grant Installed capacity Cost per w D Factor (Qual) Overall D/E
D 3400 3000 1.13 0.8 1.42
E 4700 3200 1.46 0.85 1.73
B 7600 4000 1.9 0.87 2.18
B 6700 (7 pan) 3200 2.09 0.87 2.41
A 5900 3000 1.97 0.8 2.46
C 4185 (6pan) 1980 2.14 0.85 2.49
C 5039 (7 pan) 2340 2.15 0.85 2.53
A 4565 (7 pan) 2100 2.17 0.8 2.72

thanks for all the suggestions for those who PM'd me

Shefwedfan

Has anyone actually sold the battery second hand>? just wondering if market for them

garo

What a gorgeous day today. I got 19kWh from my 4.8 EW system. Exported 7 too. Full battery but no diverter.

Nedved85

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Has anyone actually sold the battery second hand>? just wondering if market for them

I'm sure you could post here?

What size? Upgrading?

Shefwedfan

Nedved85 wrote: »

I'm sure you could post here?

What size? Upgrading?

2.6kWh, installed in Jan


Yes thinking of going another direction.

Nedved85

Cool, if I actually get solar I’ll give you a shout. Few others might interested here too

championc

garo wrote: »

What a gorgeous day today. I got 19kWh from my 4.8 EW system. Exported 7 too. Full battery but no diverter.

Yep. A record today for me too. 11.86 from my 2.7 S. Thankfully, only 0.21 exported.

I bought a Zappi last week and then decided to buy an Eddi too. Since my new EV has over 80% charge already, the Eddi got the surplus today after my batteries.

Shefwedfan

championc wrote: »

Yep. A record today for me too. 11.86 from my 2.7 S. Thankfully, only 0.21 exported.

I bought a Zappi last week and then decided to buy an Eddi too. Since my new EV has over 80% charge already, the Eddi got the surplus today after my batteries.

Was trying to burn electricty today:P


Filled up the car and then nothing left, even took out the bouncy castle and fired that up day