Star Trek: Picard - Amazon Prime [** POSSIBLE SPOILERS **]

Rawr

fxotoole wrote: »

Looks ok, but the delivery from the actress doing the voiceover seems forced and somewhat wooden. Won’t know what to make of this until we see more

That's my main (/only) complaint of the trailer.
There's something about her delivery of the voiceover that somehow cheapens it for me.

They're trying to press the "Epic" button here a little too bluntly, and they very nearly succeed if the voiceover was a bit better.
But yea...can't really make more of it without context.

I've kind of given up hope for Discovery, but this is looking like something good to look forward to

Goodshape

Evade

TomSweeney wrote: »

Someone mentioned how certain futures don't exist anymore ?
Is this from the JJ Abrams film messing up the timelines or something else in Nemesis ?

This series takes place around the same time as the future parts of All Good Things and Endgame but those episodes already changed those futures.

AtomicHorror

pixelburp wrote: »

Cool, thanks: OK, so I'm guessing Romulan empire collapse from its home system being vapourised, Picard organising a makeshift rescue fleet... then what?

I suppose, with Romulus no longer in control, Cardassia and the Klingons move in, maybe even the Federation makes overtures towards fringe systems who were less than willing participants of the empire. Deals are struck, said refugees maybe sent to Cardassia?

It's possible that the remnants of the Empire have reformed into one or more states.

It's also not clear what other political entities may border Romulans toward the outer edge of the galaxy and closer to the Delta quadrant. In Voyager it was implied that the Hirogen might be active as far out as that region. At any rate, some sort of major political or military distraction caused the Romulans to cut off engagement with the other Beta quadrant states for decades during the mid-24th century. We never did find out what that was about, but without the Romulans as a buffer that might have since changed.

AtomicHorror

TomSweeney wrote: »

Someone mentioned how certain futures don't exist anymore ?
Is this from the JJ Abrams film messing up the timelines or something else in Nemesis ?

Very few of the futures depicted in the TNG era were presented as anything more than "alternate" futures. They wouldn't be considered to be "prime" canon depictions of those times.

Rawr

AtomicHorror wrote: »

At any rate, some sort of major political or military distraction caused the Romulans to cut off engagement with the other Beta quadrant states for decades during the mid-24th century. We never did find out what that was about, but without the Romulans as a buffer that might have since changed.

I have always sort of guessed / wondered if that was due to them dealing with a Borg threat.

In a lot of Trek galaxy maps, it looked like the creep of Borg Space was reaching down from the Delta Quadrant and into the Romulan's patch of the Beta Quadrant. It almost looked like any attempted Borg invasion of Federation Space would have to go through Romulan Space first.

One theory I've always had in my head was that the massive D'deridex Class Warbird was essentually developed as a sort of Borg Cube-Fighter and that swarms of them were used to fend against the repeated Borg attacks that I imagined they had to deal with.

When the Romulans appear in the TNG:S1 episode The Neutral Zone, asking about the strange attacks along the Neutral Zone (which we learn later were probably Borg attacks.), I can't help but wonder if the Captain of that Warbird merely pretended to be unaware of the Borg. In classic Romulan style, he might have just been out to see if Picard / The Federation knew about the Borg.

Beyond that, the Borg may have been a Romulan secret at that time which was helping push their technological advancement.

Evade

Rawr wrote: »

One theory I've always had in my head was that the massive D'deridex Class Warbird was essentually developed as a sort of Borg Cube-Fighter and that swarms of them were used to fend against the repeated Borg attacks that I imagined they had to deal with.

I always saw the Romulan fleet as having the same sort of doctrine as the Imperial Japanese Navy had in the build up to World War II. It basically boils down to - we can't outbuild the rest of the world, or galaxy in the Romulans' case, so we will build better ships that will always win in engagements of equal number.

AtomicHorror

Rawr wrote: »

I have always sort of guessed / wondered if that was due to them dealing with a Borg threat.

In a lot of Trek galaxy maps, it looked like the creep of Borg Space was reaching down from the Delta Quadrant and into the Romulan's patch of the Beta Quadrant. It almost looked like any attempted Borg invasion of Federation Space would have to go through Romulan Space first.

One theory I've always had in my head was that the massive D'deridex Class Warbird was essentually developed as a sort of Borg Cube-Fighter and that swarms of them were used to fend against the repeated Borg attacks that I imagined they had to deal with.

When the Romulans appear in the TNG:S1 episode The Neutral Zone, asking about the strange attacks along the Neutral Zone (which we learn later were probably Borg attacks.), I can't help but wonder if the Captain of that Warbird merely pretended to be unaware of the Borg. In classic Romulan style, he might have just been out to see if Picard / The Federation knew about the Borg.

Beyond that, the Borg may have been a Romulan secret at that time which was helping push their technological advancement.

Maybe, but when they resumed contact, the Romulans weren't so much more advanced than the Federation that I would expect them to have fared particularly well against a concerted Borg incursion. That would have triggered movement of at least some refugees into Federation space, and they would have told tales.

The D'deridex is a big ship, but aside from that, nothing about it screams "Borg-killer". It doesn't appear to have adaptive features, or at least none are mentioned at any point, despite the class being involved in plenty of fights. It's not a particularly fast ship (Galaxy class is faster, and even those can't outrun a cube). I would even say its size counts against it, considering the Federation's eventual response to the Borg was to make smaller and more agile battleships.

The Romulan Captain did also seem to be proceeding from the assumption that the Federation had been attacking their border colonies, until that encounter. Why would a Romulan be deceptive??

Evade wrote: »

I always saw the Romulan fleet as having the same sort of doctrine as the Imperial Japanese Navy had in the build up to World War II. It basically boils down to - we can't outbuild the rest of the world, or galaxy in the Romulans' case, so we will build better ships that will always win in engagements of equal number.

Yep, I'd even suggest they were building the D'deridex class as a reply to the Galaxy class. The Tal Shiar most likely had kept close tabs on developments at Starfleet.

Mollyb60

Really looking forward to this show starting. The trailer was exciting.

And can I just say I am amazed by the amount of knowledge you guys have on the ST universe. It's really impressive and I'm really enjoying reading the posts.

Smiles35

I like the idea of the Romulans still being a threat if only for sightly more ship tension for the great one. They will still have a massive fleet and millitary complex around to run it. But not necessarily the ability to move entire populations of their own people from other planets.

Now the federation has a huge fleet aswell but once again not necessarily the ability to move entire populations.

Could it be that the Romulans sign a hasty deal with the Federation to merge? From the voice over on the trailer I'm placeing the Romulans as representative of the American woman. Let's face it they made the English language their own and in my opinion are silver tongued as feck.

AMKC

Evade wrote: »

I always saw the Romulan fleet as having the same sort of doctrine as the Imperial Japanese Navy had in the build up to World War II. It basically boils down to - we can't outbuild the rest of the world, or galaxy in the Romulans' case, so we will build better ships that will always win in engagements of equal number.

I have always compared the Romulsn fleet to the Klingon fleet. While the Klingons mostly preferred ships like that Bird of Prey as its fast, agile and powerful for its size the Romulans preferred a build big but not have as many ships philosophy.

The Klingons did not mid if they lost some ships in battle as long as they died in an honorable way whereas the Romulans are more sneaky and prefer not to lose ships that's why they build them big.

kowloon

If the timeline has the romulans destroyed in the new movies how do they put TNG and the following series end up on the same timeline?

Goodshape

kowloon wrote: »

If the timeline has the romulans destroyed in the new movies how do they put TNG and the following series end up on the same timeline?

Romulus getting destroyed, in the 2009 movie, occurred in the same "prime" timeline as all the other TV shows - including this new Picard series.

The alternative "Kelvin" timeline started when Nero went back in time *after* the destruction of Romulus.

judeboy101

There are no "alternate timelines " in star trek. It's the DTI's and the TIC's job to ensure that. Alternate universes yes, but not alternate timelines.

AtomicHorror

Goodshape wrote: »

Romulus getting destroyed, in the 2009 movie, occurred in the same "prime" timeline as all the other TV shows - including this new Picard series.

The alternative "Kelvin" timeline started when Nero went back in time *after* the destruction of Romulus.

It's remarkable how many people seem to have missed this.

There's a fair few things depicted in the three JJ movies that are technically "prime", should Kurtzman choose to honour them, as he has with the destruction of Romulus.

corkie

kowloon wrote: »

If the timeline has the romulans destroyed in the new movies how do they put TNG and the following series end up on the same timeline?

Romulas been destroyed happened after the events of all prior shows at that point.

You have the original Canon timeline up to that point. All TV shows + 10 movies prior to 2009!

Prime and Kelvin timelines are products of the new licensing deals by CBS etc.

Don't confuse Prime Timeline with the Original Canon timeline.

Picard series is set in the Prime timeline and not original canon timeline.

It is highly unlikely we will see more content in Kelvin timeline (3 latest movies) which is a forked timeline with Nero and Spock going back to alter/fork the timeline.

AtomicHorror

corkie wrote: »

Romulas been destroyed happened after the events of all prior shows at that point.

You have the original Canon timeline up to that point. All TV shows + 10 movies prior to 2009!

Prime and Kelvin timelines are products of the new licensing deals by CBS etc.

Don't confuse Prime Timeline with the Original Canon timeline.

Picard series is set in the Prime timeline and not original canon timeline.

It is highly unlikely we will see more content in Kelvin timeline (3 latest movies) which is a forked timeline with Nero and Spock going back to alter/fork the timeline.

Midnights Edge logic. Prime is Original Canon. So far the CBS/Paramount divide has amounted to little more than some pretty cosmetic issues, while the canon has been honoured as much as it was in the transition from TOS to TNG. Whatever people's beef may be with Discovery, the split has had little meaningful impact.

May all be moot soon anyway, looks like a merger is back on the table.

corkie

AtomicHorror wrote: »

Midnights Edge logic. Prime is Original Canon. So far the CBS/Paramount divide has amounted to little more than some pretty cosmetic issues, while the canon has been honoured as much as it was in the transition from TOS to TNG. Whatever people's beef may be with Discovery, the split has had little meaningful impact.

May all be moot soon anyway, looks like a merger is back on the table.

Prime is the same timeline as Canon.

But the terms Prime and Kelvin didn't exist until the 2009 movie, due to licensing deals.

Even if the main source of this theory is ME, it still does not invalidate the logic of it?

But ME lies? Seem to be called out by CBS?

https://www.quora.com/How-do-you-feel-knowing-that-the-Star-Trek-prime-timeline-is-not-Canon-This-includes-Discovery-and-Kelvin

kowloon

So the Romulans being blown up happened after Nemesis but but the bad guys going back in time in the Reboot film is where the timeline splits? If Discovery happened before TOS and the reboot films doesn't that make Discovery valid in both timelines?

So there's Prime, Kelvin and Canon?

corkie

kowloon wrote: »

So the Romulans being blown up happened after Nemesis but but the bad guys going back in time in the Reboot film is where the timeline splits? If Discovery happened before TOS and the reboot films doesn't that make Discovery valid in both timelines?

So there's Prime, Kelvin and Canon?

As Nero travels back to a time when 'Kirk' was born? Who knows what could have happened in that forked timeline from that point, with regards to discovery.


Prime =~= Canon <<<< One continuous timeline. Original canon ends with 'Nemesis'
Kelvin is a forked timeline for 3 Cinema movies.

Not debating whether Discovery is canon or not, I fine with it been called it now,
the various ways of describing the shows (OCT, Discovery and Kelvin) is handy.

Goodshape

corkie wrote: »

But the terms Prime and Kelvin didn't exist until the 2009 movie

Neither did 'Canon Timeline' though. This is the first time I've ever heard it actually.

Kelvin timeline was created as a plot device – possibly necessitated by real world licensing issues, but that's largely irrelevant – and the term 'Prime timeline' just exists as a reference to not Kelvin. It had to be called something.

Goodshape

kowloon wrote: »

So the Romulans being blown up happened after Nemesis but but the bad guys going back in time in the Reboot film is where the timeline splits?

Yes.

If Discovery happened before TOS and the reboot films doesn't that make Discovery valid in both timelines?

In Star Trek '09 they traveled back to just before Kirk is born, so the split had already happened about 30 years before Discovery.

Officially though, Discovery takes place in the original "Prime" timeline. Kelvin timeline is only those 3 movies.

So there's Prime, Kelvin and Canon?

Not outside some unfounded fan theories, imo. There's really just the original "prime" timeline and the three movies in the Kelvin timeline.

corkie

Goodshape wrote: »

Neither did 'Canon Timeline' though. This is the first time I've ever heard it actually.

Don't know if I picked up ' Oringal Canon Timeline' from some YouTube's or something I just used to classify the shows and movies prior to 2009 in my own head.

AtomicHorror

corkie wrote: »

Even if the main source of this theory is ME, it still does not invalidate the logic of it?

But ME lies? Seem to be called out by CBS?

https://www.quora.com/How-do-you-feel-knowing-that-the-Star-Trek-prime-timeline-is-not-Canon-This-includes-Discovery-and-Kelvin

ME are very good at hearing hoofbeats and calling it a zebra or a unicorn, because horses are boring and don't get enough clicks.

corkie wrote: »

Don't know if I picked up ' Oringal Canon Timeline' from some YouTube's or something I just used to classify the shows and movies prior to 2009 in my own head.

My issue is that it's not a useful distinction, unless you subscribe to the implication that Discovery is in some special parallel canon. I think once you start down that rabbit hole, the inconsistencies between every version of Star Trek (and even within versions) lead you to as many parallel canons as you fancy.

What's the point?

TheValeyard

Time can be rewritten

AtomicHorror

Murray TheDemonic TalkingSkull wrote: »

Time can be rewritten

The wibbly-wobbly timey-wimey bits can, but not the fixed points.

TheValeyard

AtomicHorror wrote: »

The wibbly-wobbly timey-wimey bits can, but not the fixed points.

Once you dont create a fixed point event.....or a temporal paradox...

FutureGuy

The events of the 2009 that depict the destruction of Romulus and Spock attempting to save the planet before going back in time are all in the prime universe and are canon.

There are a few youtubers who sh!t all over Trek who say it’s not. They are, of course, wrong.

Picard happens 15 years after those events.

AtomicHorror

FutureGuy wrote: »

The events of the 2009 that depict the destruction of Romulus and Spock attempting to save the planet before going back in time are all in the prime universe and are canon.

As is anything depicted in the JJ films that predates the arrival of Nerada.

USS Kelvin and Captain Robau would have been around, though they would have survived longer in the prime universe. I had hoped they might make an appearance in Discovery, but that ship has sailed into the 33rd century. USS Franklin and Captain Edison- they would still have gone missing in action and then crashed on that planet from Beyond, though what happened to them later may have been very different.

FutureGuy wrote: »

There are a few youtubers who sh!t all over Trek who say it’s not. They are, of course, wrong.

Midnights Edge, MechaRandom, Nerdrotic. Hateful people.

Evade

AtomicHorror wrote: »

As is anything depicted in the JJ films that predates the arrival of Nerada.

Maybe not. Any time travel due to have happened in the prime universe after 2233 that influenced an event from before 2233 may not have played out the same way, or even at all, in the Kelvin Timeline. Off the top of my head: The Voyage Home, First Contact, TNG Times Arrow, Voyager Future's End, DS9 Little Green Men and Past Tense. Even small changes in those events could have had a major impact on how pre-2233 Kelvin timeline played out.

AMKC

AtomicHorror wrote: »

As is anything depicted in the JJ films that predates the arrival of Nerada.

USS Kelvin and Captain Robau would have been around, though they would have survived longer in the prime universe. I had hoped they might make an appearance in Discovery, but that ship has sailed into the 33rd century. USS Franklin and Captain Edison- they would still have gone missing in action and then crashed on that planet from Beyond, though what happened to them later may have been very different.

Regarding the USS Kelvin I am glad it did not appear in Discovery. The ship was old in the film anyway so its is more than likely mothballed by the time of Discovery and its not like the Captain was a big player or even the smartest captain. If he was smart he he would have turned his ship around and ran as soon as he seen the size of the ship emerging from the time hole.

As for the USS Franklin and Captain Edison; Yes I agree they could have still gone missing in action but not crashed on the planet or maybe they did but got rescued. Maybe they got lost in a nebula instead or even destroyed in one or in an electrical storm or maybe they just l did not go missing at all.

liamtech

https://wegotthiscovered.com/tv/brent-spiner-guest-appearance-star-trek-picard/

DATA!!!!

Always hated how he died now we get to see what happened with B4

TheValeyard

liamtech wrote: »

https://wegotthiscovered.com/tv/brent-spiner-guest-appearance-star-trek-picard/

DATA!!!!

Always hated how he died now we get to see what happened with B4

Oooohhhhh. Interesting. Definitely excited for this show.

TheValeyard

Data better have the grey streak in his hair

Rawr

Murray TheDemonic TalkingSkull wrote: »

Data better have the grey streak in his hair

It makes him look like a bloody skunk!!

(Angrily wheels tea-trolley away)

AMKC

The two best TNG actors and two of Star Treks best actors back together on screen. I can't flipping wait.

As Picard would say.

Make It so.

pixelburp

Well then. I am a little surprised by that. Wonder if Spiner will have to get into better shape, or if his age and fitness will be worked in as some "data does human" angle

AtomicHorror

pixelburp wrote: »

Well then. I am a little surprised by that. Wonder if Spiner will have to get into better shape, or if his age and fitness will be worked in as some "data does human" angle

Or maybe they'll do a little CG de-ageing?

The source have added a note saying their source pulled the Spiner story without explanation. Hopefully this is true though.

pixelburp

God I hope not, the MCU films have been the only ones to be pull off the de-ageing, and even then just in Captain Marvel. Avengers Endgames own was as bad as it tends to be, that waxy, plastic look.

Justin Credible Darts

more stuff here

https://gazomg-trek-art.blogspot.com/search/label/COMEDY%20TREK

AtomicHorror

pixelburp wrote: »

God I hope not, the MCU films have been the only ones to be pull off the de-ageing, and even then just in Captain Marvel. Avengers Endgames own was as bad as it tends to be, that waxy, plastic look.

Which would ordinarily be a problem, but not for an android :pac:

Hector Savage

I have to say I am really looking forward to this.
Gonna have a nice cup of Earl Grey Tea now!

AMKC

Hector Savage wrote: »

I have to say I am really looking forward to this.
Gonna have a nice cup of Earl Grey Tea now!

We all are. Eagerly awaiting more news too.

Just hope the bit about the screen tests was nonsense and that they do it the way they have been. I do not believe in screen tests. They did not have them for series or movies 20/30 years ago and we don't need them now. A director should make the movie or series they want and a writer should make sure they get the director that knows what they want. After that audiences will decide if it is good or not.

corkie

AMKC wrote: »

We all are. Eagerly awaiting more news too.

Just hope the bit about the screen tests was nonsense and that they do it the way they have been. I do not believe in screen tests. They did not have them for series or movies 20/30 years ago and we don't need them now. A director should make the movie or series they want and a writer should make sure they get the director that knows what they want. After that audiences will decide if it is good or not.

A test screening is a preview screening of a movie or television show before its general release in order to gauge audience reaction. Preview audiences are selected from a cross-section of the population, and are usually asked to complete a questionnaire or provide feedback in some form. Harold Lloyd is credited with inventing the concept, having used it as early as 1928.[1] Test screenings have been recommended for starting filmmakers "even if a film festival is fast approaching".[2]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Test_screening

AMKC

corkie wrote: »

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Test_screening

I still think they are a load of rubbish. A director is there to bring to life the vision that a writer or number of writers working together have come up with and if he does not think he can do it or get the actors for it then he should let another director do it or wait till the time is right maybe because of technological, budget or casting reasons. It is then up to them to make sure it gets advertised enough over all types of media to get enough people interested in watching it in the cinema, on the TV or online so it will be a success.
Sometimes something great can happen like like George Lucas's Star Wars or Gene Roddenberry's Star Trek and other times there can be flops like the original Battlestar Galactica although I do not think that was a director or writers fault it was the stations fault for cancelling it just like Firefly as well.

I do not think a small number of people getting an early view of it on a screen should determine what direction should be taken unless maybe them people are involved in the production and they see that the way they have been doing whatever it is does not come out so good on a screen. If they are just a few ordinary people do I think it should not make much difference.

Starfleet Student

What are the chances we will get a preview and comic con next month?

AMKC

Starfleet Student wrote: »

What are the chances we will get a preview and comic con next month?

Hopefully.

pixelburp

CBS has confirmed that Michael Chabon will be showrunner. Now that's good news. Good enough that Kurtzman is stepping aside, doubly so that Chabon is a talented writer (hopefully a good manager of writers too ha)

Slydice

pixelburp wrote: »

CBS has confirmed that Michael Chabon will be showrunner. Now that's good news. Good enough that Kurtzman is stepping aside, doubly so that Chabon is a talented writer (hopefully a good manager of writers too ha)

Jeez, his wiki is a mess:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Chabon

His imdb is straight-forward though:
https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0149290/

says he contributed to the screen story of Spider-Man 2.. so obviously that's gonna increase my expectations

John Carter too. That had some decent elements.

pixelburp

He'd be much higher regarded than Kurtzman, that's for sure; his bibliography's pretty good and read a couple of his works. Certainly feeling a little more confident now about the show, the writing now in the hands of a genuine writer, than a showy hack.

I'm guessing Kurtzman is becoming the 'Lucas' style figurehead of the half-dozen Trek shows in gestation, sketching the draft idea and letting someone else drive the production. I believe Michelle Paradise is now the main showrunner on Discovery ....