Star Trek: Picard - Amazon Prime [** POSSIBLE SPOILERS **]

Goodshape

368100 wrote: »

Ah I dont know....I was looking forward to this but after watching the trailer I think maybe it was best to leave Picard in his prime on the enterprise.....he just looks frail or something

Sorry, 368100, the mob has spoken!

TomSweeney

Goodshape wrote: »

Well, it looks like TNG, First Contact, Nemesis, and Voyager will be referenced to some extent.

It's been 20 years though! I doubt they'll make it a hard requirement.



No, there were no Borg in Discovery. Not sure which one you're thinking of.

Seven of Nine is from Voyager and Hugh was in a couple of episodes of TNG (I, Borg and Decent).

Sorry I meant Voyager



My God I'm getting old.


I am a little worried about this to be honest, did not like the look of Data, can't they bring in some stuff to explain his aging surely ? rather then try and make him look the same - it's creepy.

TomSweeney

TomSweeney wrote: »

Sorry I meant Voyager



My God I'm getting old.


I am a little worried about this to be honest, did not like the look of Data, can't they bring in some stuff to explain his aging surely ? rather then try and make him look the same - it's creepy.

Like give him a faux grey streak or something??

TomSweeney

Deleted User wrote: »

Like give him a faux grey streak or something??

haha!!

AtomicHorror

TomSweeney wrote: »

I am a little worried about this to be honest, did not like the look of Data, can't they bring in some stuff to explain his aging surely ? rather then try and make him look the same - it's creepy.

I'd say it was a preliminary effect done specifically to meet the SDCC deadline and completed just in time.

I think they've made him look younger for very specific reasons.

TomSweeney

So we just know 2020 ? no specific date yet ?

marcbrophy

TomSweeney wrote: »

So we just know 2020 ? no specific date yet ?

Early 2020!

Could mean January

TheValeyard

marcbrophy wrote: »

Early 2020!

Could mean January

January 1st

TheValeyard

368100 wrote: »

Ah I dont know....I was looking forward to this but after watching the trailer I think maybe it was best to leave Picard in his prime on the enterprise.....he just looks frail or something

He will be playing an older role for this show. Dont expect him to be face punching people or climbing walls or diving down into caves

marcbrophy

TheValeyard wrote: »

January 1st

So it's decided then!

01/01/2020

Rawr

TheValeyard wrote: »

He WI be playing an older role for this show. Dont expect him to be face punching people or climbing walls or diving down into caves

That was never really the appeal or an expectation I had for Picard over the years. He was a leader of "Action Heros" not necessarily one himself

Reminds me of the silly ending of ST: Insurrection where they suddenly had Picard fight the Son'a Leader inside the "Giant Killer Laser of Evil(TM)". It felt like they did that....because movie....and having Picard resolve the movie with a fist fight was just a silly end to an incredibly weak film.

Picard as the Wise Old Man, kind of works for me.

TomSweeney

Rawr wrote: »

That was never really the appeal or an expectation I had for Picard over the years. He was a leader of "Action Heros" not necessarily one himself

Reminds me of the silly ending of ST: Insurrection where they suddenly had Picard fight the Son'a Leader inside the "Giant Killer Laser of Evil(TM)". It felt like they did that....because movie....and having Picard resolve the movie with a fist fight was just a silly end to an incredibly weak film.

Picard as the Wise Old Man, kind of works for me.

That's what I've always seen Picard as, the wise diplomat that could talk himself out of anything.

Rawr

Rawr wrote: »

Reminds me of the silly ending of ST: Insurrection where they suddenly had Picard fight the Son'a Leader inside the "Giant Killer Laser of Evil(TM)". It felt like they did that....because movie....and having Picard resolve the movie with a fist fight was just a silly end to an incredibly weak film.

Generations Picard getting owned by Soran
First Contact Picard in a Die Hard vest, swinging around on trunking.
Insurrection: Training is complete and he is now a Jedi

TheValeyard

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Generations Picard getting owned by Soran
First Contact Picard in a Die Hard vest, swinging around on trunking.
Insurrection: Training is complete and he is now a Jedi

Nemesis: emmmm, let's not mention that one.

TheValeyard

TheValeyard wrote: »

Nemesis: emmmm, let's not mention that one.

Yes, let's never mention the sand buggy. Ever

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

Yes, let's never mention the sand buggy. Ever

Fvck, I mentioned the war

pixelburp

Deleted User wrote: »

Yes, let's never mention the sand buggy. Ever

Ah, but wasn't it Stewart's idea? I think it's worth remembering, if only as a reminder our heroes have flaws

(seriously, I respect and admire Patrick Stewart, man's a decent skin & then some)

H3llR4iser

I don't know why, but people seem to forget Picard WAS already quite a troubled character; From the death of his brother and nephew to experiencing a whole lifetime in "the inner light", the destruction of Data and most importantly, being Locutus of Borg and leading the devastating attack at Wolf 359, you can take your pick. It's been inferred multiple times, from "All the Good Things" to various books (which yes, ain't canon, but still) that he had grown somewhat tired of Starfleet and was looking to leave. In these regards, the premises of this new series makes a lot of sense.

And yep, he was a diplomat and scientist first, except for some "movie magic" parts, it was Riker / Worf who were the "action dudes" in TNG.

seamus

H3llR4iser wrote: »

And yep, he was a diplomat and scientist first, except for some "movie magic" parts, it was Riker / Worf who were the "action dudes" in TNG.

This is basically shoved in your face. Whenever there was a bridge incursion on the Enterprise, Riker and Worf sprung into action while Picard stood there and directed them.

AtomicHorror wrote: »

I'd say it was a preliminary effect done specifically to meet the SDCC deadline and completed just in time.

I think they've made him look younger for very specific reasons.

Speculation on reddit is that it's probably a holodeck scene, hence why Data calls him "Captain" and why they're playing cards. At the end of TNG, Picard joins the crew for a card game for the very first time. It's possible that Picard has been recreating these in a holodeck as a way to cope with Data's death.
Spiner also confirmed that the android in the drawer is B4.

So Data is gone, and it's unlikely that B4 will ever "be" Data. Though maybe Seven has been working on a way to improve him. That's the kind of work that's right up her street.

AtomicHorror

seamus wrote: »

Speculation on reddit is that it's probably a holodeck scene, hence why Data calls him "Captain" and why they're playing cards. At the end of TNG, Picard joins the crew for a card game for the very first time. It's possible that Picard has been recreating these in a holodeck as a way to cope with Data's death.

That's what I was implying, and I mentioned earlier that I think Data is dead.

Spiner seems to have confirmed that in a recent interview, saying that Data has not evolved and won't, because he died.

seamus wrote: »

Spiner also confirmed that the android in the drawer is B4.

Yes, though he didn't seem certain about that- more certain that it's not Data.

The rest of the cast tensed up when he started talking about it- any time a possible spoiler comes they all get very cagey.

seamus wrote: »

So Data is gone, and it's unlikely that B4 will ever "be" Data. Though maybe Seven has been working on a way to improve him. That's the kind of work that's right up her street.

Dr. Jurati (Alison Pill) seems to be the Soong android expert who was described in the casting call. In the android-in-a-drawer scene, she's there with Picard.

Her descriptions of the character as being someone who has been waiting for something significant for a very long time leads me to wonder if that something is either the appearance of a functioning Soong android (perhaps Dahj?) or a way to reactivate B4, Data or Lore.

Goodshape

Spiner seemed to be saying, in that cast interview someone posted a few page ago, that Data would feature throughout the show in some way, while being careful not to mention which way in particular.

That sounds a lot like he's Picard's holodeck friend or the ships computer. Either of which would be cool enough.

He also said that he thinks (maybe being coy) it was B4 disassembled in the drawer.

pixelburp

I imagine Spiner's contribution to the story will depend on how far the de-ageing budget will stretch; ain't no way they've got Nick Fury levels of money ala Captain Marvel (still can't believe what they did there), so yeah, I'd imagine he'll appear in a stationary capacity; prisoner, hologram, take your pick.

H3llR4iser

Question - how did B4 get to be disassembled? IIRC (it's been a while) he's pretty much in one piece at the end of Nemesis...

H3llR4iser

H3llR4iser wrote: »

Question - how did B4 get to be disassembled? IIRC (it's been a while) he's pretty much in one piece at the end of Nemesis...

Wondering that myself, unless Data's memory dump caused some kind of failure?

seamus

Could always be Lore, perhaps. Canon only ever established that he was "permanently dismantled", but never elaborated on whether that meant he was completely ripped apart or merely stored securely, never to be reassembled.

If they were trying to build a Soong-type android, then having Lore as a reference point would be very useful.

So many of the teasers in the trailer could easily just be innocent scenes that we're now speculating wildly on.

seamus

seamus wrote: »

Could always be Lore, perhaps. Canon only ever established that he was "permanently dismantled", but never elaborated on whether that meant he was completely ripped apart or merely stored securely, never to be reassembled.

If they were trying to build a Soong-type android, then having Lore as a reference point would be very useful.

So many of the teasers in the trailer could easily just be innocent scenes that we're now speculating wildly on.

Which shows a great trailer. Having people talk about it without spoiling anything

H3llR4iser

seamus wrote: »

...
So many of the teasers in the trailer could easily just be innocent scenes that we're now speculating wildly on.

Now, I love this one!

The girl is creating an holonovel about a young Starfleet officer and asked Picard to act as an advisor;

The fight is a stunt in said holonovel, the guy "transporting" is just the holodeck removing the character as it's no longer necessary;

Picard's vineyards are doing good but not great, he's looking for new business opportunities;

After returning with Voyager, Seven of Nine has pursued a career as a Business advisor - specializing in deals in the Delta quadrant. Picard hired her to pursue such deals;

The crew and ship are transporting the first batch of Chateau Picard to the new restaurants in the Delta quadrant;

Aaand...the android in the drawer is a real life action figure / statue based on Data, the hero of the Battle of Remus, which every self respecting Starfleet officer want in their homes/quarters;

There could probably be a series made out of the above which would still better than a lot of crud on TV/Netflix...

marcbrophy

^^^
That's brilliant

BrookieD

What happened to the extra Data from Times Arrow?

AtomicHorror

BrookieD wrote: »

What happened to the extra Data from Times Arrow?

Wasn't that a closed time loop? There were only two for the duration of the loop?

Goodshape

BrookieD wrote: »

What happened to the extra Data from Times Arrow?

Don't think there was ever really an "extra" Data.

They found a Data head which had been lying around since the 1800s (I think). Then Data himself went back in time and became that head. His body returned and was re-attached to the old head.

So there isn't two of anything. Unless I'm misremembering.

No, Geordi had to put the old head on his present day Data body, which had just been decapitated.

So Data's head was 500 years older than his body

AtomicHorror

Deleted User wrote: »

No, Geordi had to put the old had on his present day Geordi

He did what now??

Yeah that's what happened though- and Data's head was from that point onward 500 years older than his body.

AtomicHorror

AtomicHorror wrote: »

He did what now??

Yeah that's what happened though- and Data's head was from that point onward 500 years older than his body.

Trying to deal with Sky, talk to manager, install SCOM, and write a post at the same time, while having a chest infection finally took its toll

368100

[Deleted User] wrote: »

No, Geordi had to put the old head on his present day Data body, which had just been decapitated.

So Data's head was 500 years older than his body

But there were two heads until one was sent back into the past.....time travel paradoxes :-)

odyssey06

Just noting that Jeremy Kemp, who played Robert Picard in TNG episode 'Family', has passed away at the age of 84. RIP.
https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0447305/

Rawr

H3llR4iser wrote: »

Now, I love this one!

The girl is creating an holonovel about a young Starfleet officer and asked Picard to act as an advisor;

The fight is a stunt in said holonovel, the guy "transporting" is just the holodeck removing the character as it's no longer necessary;

Picard's vineyards are doing good but not great, he's looking for new business opportunities;

After returning with Voyager, Seven of Nine has pursued a career as a Business advisor - specializing in deals in the Delta quadrant. Picard hired her to pursue such deals;

The crew and ship are transporting the first batch of Chateau Picard to the new restaurants in the Delta quadrant;

Aaand...the android in the drawer is a real life action figure / statue based on Data, the hero of the Battle of Remus, which every self respecting Starfleet officer want in their homes/quarters;

There could probably be a series made out of the above which would still better than a lot of crud on TV/Netflix...

I'd totally watch that too

Seven: Jean Luc! I'd like to reduce the wholesale price for the 2395 batch by 7% to grab more of the market share in the New Bajor sector.

Picard: ....Make it so....

Rawr

H3llR4iser wrote: »

Question - how did B4 get to be disassembled? IIRC (it's been a while) he's pretty much in one piece at the end of Nemesis...

Could it be that it's not B4 at all and they somehow found Original Data's remains in the wreck of the Scimitar? (The torso looks damaged, part of the shoulder is missing)

Kind of unlikely since Data was right in the middle of the explosion he caused....but hey....Sci-Fi rules apply, something might have prevented his destruction.

TheIrishGrover

I reckon they had his consciousness saved onto a 32GB USB stick and just uploaded him into Lore's body



No, I'm really looking forward to this. I have enjoyed Discovery and make no apologies/offer no explanation: I have been a trekkie for a long long time and I enjoyed what discovery brought (And Goddamnit, give us a Pike series. I want to see them back).

I'm looking forward to this. I like the fact that it is a continuation of TNG. I'm looking forward to seeing what they do with The Borg lore. I hope they undo some of the damage that Voyager heaped on The Borg (Basically totally neutering them). I know Seven of Nine is there so they will have to acknowledge some of Voyager's Borg storylines but that show really f*cked them up:

Make Borg Great Again....... Maybe that slogan needs work

AMKC

TheIrishGrover wrote: »

I reckon they had his consciousness saved onto a 32GB USB stick and just uploaded him into Lore's body



No, I'm really looking forward to this. I have enjoyed Discovery and make no apologies/offer no explanation: I have been a trekkie for a long long time and I enjoyed what discovery brought (And Goddamnit, give us a Pike series. I want to see them back).

I'm looking forward to this. I like the fact that it is a continuation of TNG. I'm looking forward to seeing what they do with The Borg lore. I hope they undo some of the damage that Voyager heaped on The Borg (Basically totally neutering them). I know Seven of Nine is there so they will have to acknowledge some of Voyager's Borg storylines but that show really f*cked them up:

Make Borg Great Again....... Maybe that slogan needs work

How about,

Make Borg Scary again or

Make Borg Terrifying again.

Personally I prefer the second one.

Evade

AMKC wrote: »

How about,

Make Borg Scary again or

Make Borg Terrifying again.

Personally I prefer the second one.

Make resistance futile again.

Cookie_Monster

Make them go away again...

There is no reason for the Borg to have an unnatural piqued interest in the Federation, it's too far away from their base of operations with too many other species in the way. Why would they waste the time and resources constantly travelling so far to deal with a meaningless enemy?

Slydice

Wellllllll

We got what.. somewhere between 2 to 5 cubes?

8472 got .. more

for just one battle

Stark

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Make them go away again...

There is no reason for the Borg to have an unnatural piqued interest in the Federation, it's too far away from their base of operations with too many other species in the way. Why would they waste the time and resources constantly travelling so far to deal with a meaningless enemy?

I'm envisioning a world where the Borg themselveshave become a manageable threat like the Romulans/Klingons or whatever thanks to the Federation's own research and tech brought back by Voyager. What's left to explore then is the process of rescuing people from the collective and the effect on the power balance in the alpha/beta quadrants from having access to Borg tech.

H3llR4iser

Stark wrote: »

I'm envisioning a world where the Borg themselveshave become a manageable threat like the Romulans/Klingons or whatever thanks to the Federation's own research and tech brought back by Voyager. What's left to explore then is the process of rescuing people from the collective and the effect on the power balance in the alpha/beta quadrants from having access to Borg tech.

The interesting counter to this is...can something like the Borg, with nearly infinite processing power leading to basically instant adaptation to threats, be EVER manageable? The whole "race" was basically envisioned as the one and only "big baddie" in the Trek Universe to which the only solution applicable was pretty much "kill it with plasma fire!"...even 'though they tried to somewhat soften the stance in following series / movies.

pixelburp

H3llR4iser wrote: »

The interesting counter to this is...can something like the Borg, with nearly infinite processing power leading to basically instant adaptation to threats, be EVER manageable? The whole "race" was basically envisioned as the one and only "big baddie" in the Trek Universe to which the only solution applicable was pretty much "kill it with plasma fire!"...even 'though they tried to somewhat soften the stance in following series / movies.

Maybe that's the thrust of 'Picard'? Seems like that decommissioned cube is running as a Romulan operation, maybe they're playing with fire under the false belief that they can manage the process? Not like the Romulans don't possess a surfeit of self-confidence, and is a story as old as technology itself. I'd be surprised if the Federation took this strategy, likely more cautious with thinking similar to your own.

And that "X days since assimilation" feels like Checkov's Gun here, and whatever episode it's from will absolutely preface an incident where the Cube reactivates & the dormant drones come back to 'life'. Might as well hang a second sign saying "Things are about to go wrong".

Not sure where that girl comes into my theorising: perhaps she's some natural 'evolution' of the Borg left dormant / rudderless (which'd overlap with 'Hugh'), who has both her humanity yet retains a connection to the Collective - which would naturally butt heads against the approach of curing assimilated drones taken by the Romulans. To them any lingering connection to the Collective would be seen as a potential galactic threat. Maybe her presence on the Cube is what causes the above inevitable incident...

Rawr

pixelburp wrote: »

Maybe that's the thrust of 'Picard'? Seems like that decommissioned cube is running as a Romulan operation, maybe they're playing with fire under the false belief that they can manage the process? Not like the Romulans don't possess a surfeit of self-confidence, and is a story as old as technology itself. I'd be surprised if the Federation took this strategy, likely more cautious with thinking similar to your own.

The Romulan angle kind of plays into one my old theories about what the Romulan's were talking about in the TNG Episode "The Neutral Zone".

Tebok: "...Matters more urgent caused our absence."

Mentioned this on a thread here before, but to repeat, I had sometimes imagined that the Romulans were by then already dealing with the Borg and were simply not letting on. Their encounter with the Enterprise was maybe just an attempt to see if the Federation had realised that it was the Borg who were now attacking outposts in the Neutral Zone.

The main reason I feel this way is due to Romulan Space covering the patch of the Beta Quadrant that lay between the Borg Space and the Federation. It just felt that the Borg encountering the Romulans first would make more sense.

I can't help by wonder if ST: Picard will take up this discarded plot thread from "The Neutral Zone", showing the Romulans playing with many decades worth of Borg tech....(maybe even leading to a Romulus-destroying accident of sorts?)

pixelburp

Seems like pretty low hanging fruit all told; if Michael Chabon knows his canon (and I'm 99% sure one of the writing team IS there as a canon expert) it's entirely possible he has looked at the timeline and old TNG material, realising that the Romulans have a very organic & pre-existing relationship with the Borg predating the Federation's own. Heck, perhaps the supernova was itself some adapted Borg tech that went horribly wrong?

And knowing the Romulan's arrogance, you could see a splinter faction still tinkering with the Cube, trying to get secrets that might re-establish the empire

Rawr

pixelburp wrote: »

Heck, perhaps the supernova was itself some adapted Borg tech that went horribly wrong?

That's my guess too. Especially if they were, for example, trying to recreate their own Transwarp Hub, on the Romulus sun?



The payoff being that they could instantly send a fleet nearly anywhere. But screw that up and you might end up with an Empire wrecking supernova.

Evade

pixelburp wrote: »

Maybe that's the thrust of 'Picard'? Seems like that decommissioned cube is running as a Romulan operation,

The energy seen on the outside of the cube isn't the traditional Romulan colour.

pixelburp wrote: »

Seems like pretty low hanging fruit all told; if Michael Chabon knows his canrealising that the Romulans have a very organic & pre-existing relationship with the Borg predating the Federation's own.

I think that might further neuter the Borg. Now it's not only the Federation that can hold them off but the Romulans too. There's a perfectly logical reason for the Borg to prioritise assimilating the Federation over the Romulan Star Empire, biological distinctiveness. Assimilate the Empire and you've got one extra species, assimilate the Federation and you've got hundreds.