Star Trek: Picard - Amazon Prime [** POSSIBLE SPOILERS **]

Nody

I gave up after episode 5; this is simply not working and this is not who Picard is. I could go on a long rant on all the things they got wrong from wealth (which was suppose to be removed), the preaching, lore abuse (Synthehol intolerance for 7 of 9? Oh it magically disappeared along with a very long list of other issues with lore being ignored) etc. Simply put today The Orville is the actual Star Trek; this is simply some ****ty fan fiction.

pah

Tenzor07 wrote: »

Although the shows creators say this is "Prime" timeline, I have a feeling that they aren't familiar with it and their knowledge of Trek seems to be more so from the Kelvin Timeline...

And this is Lieutenant Picard as seen in the TNG Episode "Tapestry"

https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Tapestry_(episode)

This is one of the episodes that defined Picard as a character. IMO the new show acts like this never happened.

EltonJohn69

I THOUGHT THE MOST RECENT EPISODE WAS GREAT

ExoPolitic

Cycle of trek; fans say show will be no good, fans convince themselves show is already no good before seeing, fans watch show and only complain, show gets cancelled, fans wonder why its been cancelled, fans watch reruns and love show for years to come...

Evade

FFVII

I like it.

Was a bit slow, I don't like the way they zoom in on JL

The whole premise/storyline is a bit sh1t.

But i like it.

pixelburp

I had heard this will only get 2 seasons, but not sure where exactly I read that all the same. So cancellation may not be an issue, more likely the desire for Stewart to keep going. A side character with a big enough impact might create a spin off though. Besides, not like there hasn't been former black sheep of fandom, retrospectively loved after the fact (I am of course talking of ... ... The animated series :pac:).

Stark

Just finished reading the prequel novel. (Star Trek Picard: the last best hope). The novel is great, well worth the read.

Goodshape

Xertz wrote: »

I think what's annoying me is not that Picard's aged, but rather he's not the rock of sense and stability that he always represented. He seems somehow quite indecisive and weak. The TNG Picard was an incredibly wise character and a very deep thinker who held huge weight on screen.

There was a certain confidence expressed by Picard and Janeway which which had moral fibre. That seems to be weakened.

I really didn't like Captain Archer on the Enterprise series for the same reason. He was a wishy-washy character who lacked that intellect, wisdom and reflective thinking. Kirk had it in spades.

I'm enjoying ST:Picard quite a bit. I think it's working on a lot of levels as a ~20 years later update to the TNG/DS9/Voy universe. Episodes 2 and 3 were weak, but it's been pretty solid since.

Having said that, have to agree with Xertz here. Would have preferred a different take on Picard himself. This guy too often seems unsure of himself, slightly overwhelmed, and a little too emotional. Based on what he's been through since last we saw him, I'd have imagined Picard getting a little angrier and even more stubborn, not softer. It's a lot more P.Stew than "JL".

But despite that I am enjoying it. I think the supporting cast and characters are all really strong, as is the world building – once they got away from Earth.

Stark

Stark wrote: »

Just finished reading the prequel novel. (Star Trek Picard: the last best hope). The novel is great, well worth the read.

I bought the audio book but haven’t got round to it yet. Looking forward to filling in the gaps.

marcbrophy

Goodshape wrote: »

This guy too often seems unsure of himself, slightly overwhelmed, and a little too emotional.

People seem to be forgetting that these are all symptoms of Irumodic Syndrome. Which the doc told him he had.

https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Irumodic_Syndrome

If you ask me, this is exactly what Picard would be like after this condition starts to take hold!

pah

marcbrophy wrote: »

People seem to be forgetting that these are all symptoms of Irumodic Syndrome. Which the doc told him he had.

https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Irumodic_Syndrome

If you ask me, this is exactly what Picard would be like after this condition starts to take hold!

Convenient :rolleyes:

Inviere

pah wrote: »

Convenient :rolleyes:

It's not convenient just because you don't like how the character turned out though.

Irumodic Syndrome.
Rejected by an organisation he literally devoted his life to.
Twenty years older.
Loss of a dear friend in a moment of self sacrifice.

You'd swear he was still a drone the way some people expect him to shake this stuff off. The man I'm seeing, five episodes in, has thrown his retirement aside in the hopes of protecting a girl who's in danger, despite all of the above (there's also the small hint that it's possible to somehow 'save' Data in all of this). That's pretty damn Jean-Luc to me.

GM228

marcbrophy wrote: »

People seem to be forgetting that these are all symptoms of Irumodic Syndrome. Which the doc told him he had.

https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Irumodic_Syndrome

If you ask me, this is exactly what Picard would be like after this condition starts to take hold!

But only in the future as depicted by Q, all that he had/has in the present outside of Qs version of the future was a small structural defect in his parietal lobe which could (note "could" so inconclusive) lead to such a condition or similar conditions.

Inviere

GM228 wrote: »

But only in the future as depicted by Q, all that he had/has in the present outside of Qs version of the future was a small structural defect in his parietal lobe which could (note "could" so inconclusive) lead to such a condition or similar conditions.

Regardless, there's a defect in his parietal lobe.

Stark

GM228 wrote: »

But only in the future as depicted by Q, all that he had/has in the present outside of Qs version of the future was a small structural defect in his parietal lobe which could (note "could" so inconclusive) lead to such a condition or similar conditions.

There was a strong hint the condition was taking hold in one of the earlier episodes of STP as well.

pah

I accept that the potential illness might be affecting him. It's not just about his condition now though. Admiral Picard of 14 years ago would have fought harder than he did for what he believed in based on the captain Picard we knew from just a few years previous to that.

Goodshape

pah wrote: »

Admiral Picard of 14 years ago would have fought harder than he did for what he believed in based on the captain Picard we knew from just a few years previous to that.

Well he did effectively resign over it.

_Kaiser_

Goodshape wrote: »

Well he did effectively resign over it.

Which is out of character in itself, especially for something he was so adamant about and dedicated to.

The Picard of old would have rounded up the old gang and gone rogue if needed (eg: First Contact when he ignores Command and brings the Enterprise into the battle with the Cube, or Insurrection where he violates orders again to defend the Ba'ku).

He wouldn't have thrown away his influence and career in a failed attempt to call Command's bluff, and he definitely wouldn't have given up and gone home to wallow while millions died and his loyal second (Raffi) took the fall as well.

Xertz

Inviere wrote: »

Regardless, there's a defect in his parietal lobe.

You’d hardly think that would be beyond medicine in that era, given some of the stuff Dr Crusher has managed to resolve over the years.

Also could he just not get a Borg parietal lobe update?

uncleoswald

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

The Picard of old would have rounded up the old gang and gone rogue if needed (eg: First Contact when he ignores Command and brings the Enterprise into the battle with the Cube, or Insurrection where he violates orders again to defend the Ba'ku).

But movie Picard was vastly different to TNG Picard so who the hell knows what he would do in any situation anymore. TNG Picard probably would have solemnly carried out his duties but then the Federation of TNG would never have abandoned the Romulans like that (I'm still not sure why they did in Picard, something to do with some rouge synths destroying the shipyards on Mars... I'm not sure how the two events are related but I'm an episode behind so maybe that gets explained a bit better.

_Kaiser_

uncleoswald wrote: »

But movie Picard was vastly different to TNG Picard so who the hell knows what he would do in any situation anymore. TNG Picard probably would have solemnly carried out his duties but then the Federation of TNG would never have abandoned the Romulans like that (I'm still not sure why they did in Picard, something to do with some rouge synths destroying the shipyards on Mars... I'm not sure how the two events are related but I'm an episode behind so maybe that gets explained a bit better.

The Picard of TNG wasn't averse to bending or breaking the rules (including the Prime Directive) on occasion if it was the right thing to do though.

TNG or movie era, he just wouldn't have abandoned the Romulans like that, especially after his experience and mind meld with Sarek and Spock himself (the latter of whom was firmly committed to establishing a proper peace between them, Vulcan and the Federation).

pah

Would much rather see Picard court martialed for continuing to help against orders and potentially dismissed from Starfleet or "get his ass fired" :rolleyes: as Raffi says. That would have been more in character. How often have we seen this happen in Trek and in the end very little consequence?

The biggest I can recall is Kirk's demotion to Captain but that was almost what he wanted all along. Tom Paris getting denoted is another?

Evade

Season one Picard didn't have much of an issue going against Starfleet Command when their orders didn't make sense.

Stark

Wasn't a matter of just "going against orders". How do you migrate billions of people without the help of the Federation/Starfleet?

The shipyards on Mars were involved in a massive shipbuilding program to make the migration feasible. With the shipyards destroyed, they didn't have enough remaining ships to continue the mission and keep the Federation running at the same time.

Evade

If you're someone like Picard you do what you can. Gather public support, call in all your favours, since money exists again sell your vineyard and buy your own ship(s) and Dunkirk it like in his analogy.

pixelburp

"Money exists again"? That doesn't seem correct: this is getting into spoilers for the actual show TBH but

the latest episode confirmed that Rios was being paid in Latinum, which only confirms that that still exists, and humans living outside of the Fed take it

Stark

The whole Federation economy thing doesn't really make sense anyway. You see cafes and restaurants on Earth in TNG-era Trek. I guess we're supposed to believe that the proprietors keep them going for the love of serving people but that doesn't really add up. In the prequel book, Agnes and Bruce Maddox are nearly kicked out of a cafe for not buying anything.

I think it's more likely that the Federation operates on a universal basic income basis. All basic needs like food, shelter, healthcare, education are met but if you want anything more than the basics, then latinum is involved.

tromtipp

There were also those 'transporter credits' that Ben Sisko used up when he started at the Academy. Maybe they were a students-only thing, but maybe not. A credits system could be rationalised as not-really-money if it didn't accumulate interest, but is still currency. And it's hard to imagine that a huge credits-to-Latinum exchange system wouldn't develop very quickly. There are also those expensive-looking private collections of objects people put together - the African art from Ben's library, Marla Aster's stuff - and it seems that material possessions can pass down the generations.

So yes, lots of holes in the economic theory there.

pixelburp

I like the "universal income" idea, it would neatly explains the apparently visible economy / society not unlike our own on Federation Earth, yet wouldn't contradict the idea that the Federation promotes a non-material focused lifestyle.

The Expanse does it, albeit (IIRC) using it more of a caste based crutch, where the overpopulated Earth has to restrict job or voting access to those who "graduate" out of that UBI system. Honestly it's something I've thought of myself: with automation becoming more a reality, yet birthrates still climbing, it's entirely possible Western Countries have a permanent class of unemployed. There may not be enough jobs for everyone in the future.