Mary Lou calls for border poll the day after west Belfast shooting - contradictory?

County Tyrone Lad

RT&#201 wrote: »

Sinn Féin leader Mary Lou McDonald has doubled down on her Irish reunification U-turn and said a unity referendum is now at the centre of political discussion.

The comments come a week after Ms McDonald said a poll on Irish unity should not be held while uncertainty around Brexit remains.

Now Ms McDonald has said: "It is not a question of if a unity referendum will happen but a question of when."

Ms McDonald made the remarks during her keynote speech at the 37th annual National Hunger Strike Commemoration in Castlewellan, Co Down.

She added that the process of building a new and united Ireland must include unionists, and the Government has a responsibility to lead the discussion.

"The need for a referendum to end partition is writ large and the time for a unity referendum is drawing near.

"Political leaders must begin practical preparations for a new, inclusive Ireland beyond partition.

"The Irish Government in particular has a responsibility to lead an informed, reasoned and respectful public dialogue on this issue.

"As Britain turns away from Europe, the appeal of being part of a new and outward-looking Ireland will, I believe, prove ever more attractive to some within the unionist community.

"British identity can and must be accommodated in a united Ireland and I believe nationalist Ireland is open to constitutional and political safeguards to ensure this."

The Sinn Féin leader added that the party is committed to re-establishing the Executive and Assembly in Northern Ireland.

A few hours earlier...

RT&#201 wrote: »

A man has been seriously injured in what police described as a "paramilitary-style shooting" in west Belfast.

PSNI say that the man was shot in both legs in an alleyway in the Springhill Drive area of the city at around 10.30pm last night.

The man, who is in his 30s, was taken to hospital with what police say may be life-changing injuries.

An appeal to the public for information has been issued.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for a united Ireland, but if Proddie UVF and UDA scum arseholes are going to cause mass-casualty chaos, what's the point?

There has to be a plan of action for the above.

What do ye think?

namloc1980

Happy enough without the basket case bigoted backwater thanks very much.

Hector Bellend

nice bit of an oul united ireland

Cee-Jay-Cee

County Tyrone Lad wrote: »

A few hours earlier...



Don't get me wrong, I'm all for a united Ireland, but if Proddie UVF and UDA scum arseholes are going to cause mass-casualty chaos, what's the point?

There has to be a plan of action for the above.

What do ye think?

Yeah because the IRA are such a bunch of law abiding folk that they wouldn’t dream of retaliating and killing some poor innocents.

Until the people of Northern Ireland (nationalists and unionists) learn to live in peace together in the same communities then there will be no referendum.

I don’t want a United Ireland and never will. It’s a stupid pipe dream that wouldn’t be entertained by nationalists if they were told the truth about what it would entail for them. No more free education, medical etc. No more ‘I hurt my wee finger and am disabled’ motability cars. Pay our car insurance and tax rates. Pay our doc fees etc etc

bear1

Is it me or are there more and more united Ireland threads popping up which always end up going the same direction?

jcorr

County Tyrone Lad wrote: »

A few hours earlier...



Don't get me wrong, I'm all for a united Ireland, but if Proddie UVF and UDA scum arseholes are going to cause mass-casualty chaos, what's the point?

There has to be a plan of action for the above.

What do ye think?

Yea but we could go after the basterds with the full force of the army.

Taytoland

She never outlines what  is going to change in the Irish constitution to protect the Ulster Unionists identity or just what is going to be ripped up, it's meaningless drivel.

County Tyrone Lad

Taytoland wrote: »

She never outlines what  is going to change in the Irish constitution to protect the Ulster Unionists identity or just what is going to be ripped up, it's meaningless drivel.

The best solution for Ulster unionists if a UI is achieved are deportation orders and a one way ticket to Heathrow.

Taytoland

County Tyrone Lad wrote: »

Taytoland wrote: »

She never outlines what  is going to change in the Irish constitution to protect the Ulster Unionists identity or just what is going to be ripped up, it's meaningless drivel.

The best solution for Ulster unionists if a UI is achieved are deportation orders and a one way ticket to Heathrow.

What a lot of nationalists actually believe but don't say it. Fair play to you.

County Tyrone Lad

What was the shooting in west Belfast last night about BTW?

Edgware

Taytoland wrote: »

She never outlines what  is going to change in the Irish constitution to protect the Ulster Unionists identity or just what is going to be ripped up, it's meaningless drivel.

I thought you would be so used to that oul ****e from her by now you wouldnt pay any attention

end of the road

a UI is happening. nothing can be done to stop it. it's a case of when and not if.

fergus1001

well all sit down in the park with a big bag of cans and sort it out

srsly78

Cee-Jay-Cee wrote: »

Yeah because the IRA ate such a bunch of law abiding folk

I've never heard of these allegations before.

Del.Monte

jcorr wrote: »

Yea but we could go after the basterds with the full force of the army.

Righty, that worked out well for the British Army and RUC. :rolleyes:

Berserker

Taytoland wrote: »

She never outlines what  is going to change in the Irish constitution to protect the Ulster Unionists identity or just what is going to be ripped up, it's meaningless drivel.

She never outlines it because she know it's a non-starter in reality. Given that a UI is the end goal for republicans, it'd be realistic to think that they've put plenty of time and money into scoping out the potential solutions to the challenges that a UI would bring. They know how difficult it would be from a cultural, financial, security etc perspective, so they are playing dumb on the matter. If it was remotely possible they'd be releasing these reports.

jcorr wrote: »

Yea but we could go after the basterds with the full force of the army.

With the Irish army? You'll need a few billion, tens of billions to be more exact, to upgrade the army to the modern standards that are required to do that. I'm not even going to go into the can of worms that sending the army up there would open.

SEPT 23 1989

Old enough to remember the war and the great peace everytime a thread like this starts my heart sinks

Push them into a corner and the whole thing starts up again I don't want this for my children

suicide_circus

Mary Lou is mad for the poll

OldMrBrennan83

end of the road wrote: »

a UI is happening. nothing can be done to stop it. it's a case of when and not if.

Not if enough people think logically about it and use their vote to prevent it.

end of the road

Patww79 wrote: »

Not if enough people think logically about it and use their vote to prevent it.

very unlikely that their vote would prevent it. especially now that brexit is happening. ultimately the northern irish vote is the one that matters. if NI votes to join us and the south voted not to take them, i believe we would still be taking them as britain and the EU would make sure we did because it would be in their interests to do so due to the border issue.

Ten of Swords

end of the road wrote: »

if NI votes to join us and the south voted not to take them, i believe we would still be taking them as britain and the EU would make sure we did because it would be in their interests to do so due to the border issue.

The EU and UK would conspire to overrule an Irish referendum and redraw the map anyway even though (in this hypothetical scenario) we would have explicitly voted against it?

Really?

KevRossi

Ten of Swords wrote: »

The EU would conspire to overrule an Irish referendum anyway even though we would have explicitly voted against it?

Really?

Eh.... Its happened a few times before.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

end of the road wrote: »

very unlikely that their vote would prevent it. especially now that brexit is happening. ultimately the northern irish vote is the one that matters. if NI votes to join us and the south voted not to take them, i believe we would still be taking them as britain and the EU would make sure we did because it would be in their interests to do so due to the border issue.

Believe what you wish, but that scenario is as far from a possibly as you can get.

end of the road

Ten of Swords wrote: »

The EU and UK would conspire to overrule an Irish referendum and redraw the map anyway even though (in this hypothetical scenario) we would have explicitly voted against it?

Really?

no they would simply be forcing reunification because it's in the majority's interest.

Berserker

KevRossi wrote: »

Eh.... Its happened a few times before.

The EU and GB got together and decided to redraw the map of Ireland? What county did the sneak in? Was it Louth? It's the only one that's small enough to switch without people noticing.

end of the road wrote: »

no they would simply be forcing reunification because it's in the majority's interest.

But the people in the RoI have voted against it, according to your post, so it's not.

end of the road

KevRossi wrote: »

Eh.... Its happened a few times before.

no . what happened is we voted no and were then given concessions. this meant a new deal which required another referendum. we voted on something new the second time. that's democracy in action.

Infini

Ten of Swords wrote: »

The EU and UK would conspire to overrule an Irish referendum and redraw the map anyway even though (in this hypothetical scenario) we would have explicitly voted against it?

Really?

Probably forgot to add: "MEANWHILE: IN AN ALTERNATE UNIVERSE".

J. Smith

I for one would welcome the Protestants, Unionists and Loyalists with open arms. It's the only way it'll work. Yes – some of the Loyalists are dysfunctional, but aren't we all a little bit? It depresses the hell out of me when people in the republic say they want nothing to do with the north. I mean – what the hell???? I can't comprehend it.

Working class heroes

Infini wrote: »

Probably forgot to add: "MEANWHILE: IN AN ALTERNATE UNIVERSE".

Like your use of the old CAPS there.

Strabanimal

Cee-Jay-Cee wrote: »

Yeah because the IRA ate such a bunch of law abiding folk that they wouldn’t dream of retaliating and killing some poor innocents.

A fine dish of whataboutery I must say as a Northerner myself.

Wheeliebin30

The army council must have had a word in her ear after Monday’s speech.

Who’s running the show there???

Strabanimal

Southerners are insecure about being seen as those who pussied out during the troubles. I never actually was taught this as a student here, but they seem to think we were. It's all insecurity in the end. They're scared of a democratic UI because of Loyalist terrorist actions, who in their right mind would want to join a nation like that? Just because our forefathers fought for their freedom, and a Tyrone man drew up the entire plan for the Rising, does not mean we should still want to join a country that is basically the diet version of England in 2018.

purplepanda

A million extra potential voters who won't vote for SF, plus many more on either side of the border who presently vote for them who then would no longer see that party as then being irrelevant in any future UI.

Not to mention electoral pacts & coalitions being formed against them.

The SF vote would collapse further in a United Ireland parliament, they only currently get 15.2% of the total all Ireland votes, do they really think they could form an all Ireland government or put together a coalition in that scenario? :pac:

Wheeliebin30

When will people realise no one owns land, we are only caretakers.

All a load of nonsense.

Duckworth_Luas

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

When will people realise no one owns land, we are only caretakers.

All a load of nonsense.

OldMrBrennan83

Strabanimal wrote: »

Southerners are insecure about being seen as those who pussied out during the troubles. I never actually was taught this as a student here, but they seem to think we were. It's all insecurity in the end. They're scared of a democratic UI because of Loyalist terrorist actions, who in their right mind would want to join a nation like that? Just because our forefathers fought for their freedom, and a Tyrone man drew up the entire plan for the Rising, does not mean we should still want to join a country that is basically the diet version of England in 2018.

Personally, and I've heard it from a good few others too, it's not just the loyalists we don't want.

Wheeliebin30

Duckworth_Luas wrote: »

Bunch of idiots constantly bickering, they all need to get over themselves and move forward.

J. Smith

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

When will people realise no one owns land, we are only caretakers.

All a load of nonsense.

You're dead right, we ARE caretakers! – And as such WE should TAKE CARE of the land. ALL of us that inhabit THIS island.

Strabanimal

Patww79 wrote: »

Personally, and I've heard it from a good few others too, it's not just the loyalists we don't want.

Polls say otherwise. We all know you're from a weaker people. You delete your west brit, the pale, mentality post history (easily viewed if you check his cached posts btw). Says it all. I have never deleted a post.

OldMrBrennan83

Strabanimal wrote: »

Polls say otherwise. We all know you're from a weaker people. You delete your west brit, the pale, mentality post history (easily viewed if you check his cached posts btw). Says it all. I have never deleted a post.

Weaker? Nah. Our people were able to get our freedom from yours.

Strabanimal

Patww79 wrote: »

Weaker? Nah. Our people were able to get our freedom from yours.

"Weaker? Nah. Our people were able to get our freedom from yours."

What? You're from the Pale mate. You got freedom from your own people.

Guy:Incognito

end of the road wrote: »

a UI is happening. nothing can be done to stop it. it's a case of when and not if.

The end of the world is happening, nothing can be done to stop it. It's a case of when and not if.


Few billion years still counts as "when" I suppose.......

purplepanda

purplepanda wrote: »

A million extra potential voters who won't vote for SF, plus many more on either side of the border who presently vote for them who then would no longer see that party as then being irrelevant in any future UI.

Not to mention electoral pacts & coalitions being formed against them.

The SF vote would collapse further in a United Ireland parliament, they only currently get 15.2% of the total all Ireland votes, do they really think they could form an all Ireland government or put together a coalition in that scenario? :pac:

Sinn Fein would go the same way as UKIP. Turkeys, Christmas and all that.

touts

Well the **** fit the Shinners threw at the decision to appoint a Protestant from the Unionist tradition as Garda Commissioner just highlighted the fact that they still see protestants and unionists as second class citizens unfit for high office in a united Ireland. From a long term strategic perspective that sectarian reaction was a disaster for the chances of a united Ireland as it simply reminded protestants and unionists of how much they stand to lose in a united Ireland.

Anyway there is little chance that it will pass along the Catholic population either north or South. In the south we don't want that hospital pass of crippling economic demands and social unrest. The UK broke it they can keep it.. And in the North a vocal minority like to prattle on about how the south abandoned them and now we must take them in but in my experience talking to people in the North most Catholics know they are much muchbetter off now in the UK than in a united Ireland. The peace process would be metaphorically shattered and all those new glass fronted buildings around Belfast (and Dublin) would literally be shattered. Their health and education systems would all but disappear to be replaced by the shambolic services we have down here. And many of their imaginary state funded jobs would disappear as the 2 million taxpayers in the south can't provide the same money as the 30 million taxpayers in the UK.

We've had a united Ireland in all but name through the EU and we will again in 10 years when the UK reverse Brexit. That will happen generations before any vote on an actual United Ireland.

Subcomandante Marcos

I think a 32 county republic is all but a certainty in the next few decades but I also think this needs to happen in conjunction with a brand new constitution that recognises and respects the ethnic, national and religious identities of all people on this island and values the diversity of its inhabitants both historical and present.

The DUP Taliban and their ilk can stick their heads in the sand and deny it all they want, it's going to happen, and people of unionist/loyalist backgrounds will vote for it.

um7y1h83ge06nx

Our existing republic is dysfunctional enough as it is without adding Northern Ireland. People have romantic notions about An united Ireland but can we afford one? We would need to prop up the north financially, then run the risk of a new period of troubles breaking out with hardcore loyalists driving it. That would require a large investment in the Gardai and Defence Forces.

The harsh reality is Northern Ireland, in my opinion , is neither truly British or Irish. Maybe if anything was going to happen they should go their own way and become an independent state.

end of the road

Jaden Ripe Racist wrote: »

Our existing republic is dysfunctional enough as it is without adding Northern Ireland. People have romantic notions about An united Ireland but can we afford one? We would need to prop up the north financially, then run the risk of a new period of troubles breaking out with hardcore loyalists driving it. That would require a large investment in the Gardai and Defence Forces.

The harsh reality is Northern Ireland, in my opinion , is neither truly British or Irish. Maybe if anything was going to happen they should go their own way and become an independent state.

we will have to afford it as it is going to happen at some stage. any trouble caused by a tiny minority of loyalists would be small and easily dealt with. investment in the gardai and defence forces is needed anyway so it's irrelevant to this issue.
northern ireland is irish, it belongs to ireland and will be returning to ireland. it is not and never will be anything other then irish and would not survive as an independant state. there is no argument against a UI.

Cookie_Monster

end of the road wrote: »

there is no argument against a UI.

there are plenty as many posters have pointed out. There are far more arguments against than for IMO. Aside from the romantic notion of a single country there is really very little reason to actively go for it. NI should remain its own country, attached to Britian or not.

wetlandsboy

A bit of a change from her previous position:

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/its-not-a-question-of-if-but-when-time-for-irish-unity-referendum-is-drawing-near-says-sinn-fein-leader-37186360.html

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/sudden-u-turn-suggests-mary-lou-mcdonald-is-not-in-driving-seat-1.3583504


Maybe the guys who *really* call the shots had a quiet word in her ear?

RobbingBandit

Vote to leave UK would have to happen first as to saying we in the Republic then join those in northern ireland to vote do their votes count 4 times to make it even based on population or will this be the usual there's more of us than them we can't lose sure thing type vote like the nice treaty?

enda1

Would be interesting (though not going to happen) to have one vote with two choices:
1. Join with Ireland to create a 32 county republic under a new inclusive constitution and remain in the EU.
2. Remain in the UK and Brexit.

Could pull a few unionists away from their traditional path I guess.

For sure if those of us in Ireland have aspirations towards a UI, we need to redraw our constitution, flag and national anthem. A lot of thought would need to go into inclusion and trying to make for a real community and shared identity with unionists. Would be interesting and very difficult times.

I think in the meantime, the government should be putting pressure on the GAA to break away from it's republican/political roots -for example stopping with the national anthem before matches, ESPECIALLY in Northern Ireand which let's not forget is a different country. The normalisation of all island bodies as happens a bit in some sports helps to smooth this transition. FAI and IFA joining would be fantastic too (though far fetched I'm led to believe)