Mary Lou calls for border poll the day after west Belfast shooting - contradictory?

OldMrBrennan83

enda1 wrote: »

Would be interesting (though not going to happen) to have one vote with two choices:
1. Join with Ireland to create a 32 county republic under a new inclusive constitution and remain in the EU.
2. Remain in the UK and Brexit.

Could pull a few unionists away from their traditional path I guess.

For sure if those of us in Ireland have aspirations towards a UI, we need to redraw our constitution, flag and national anthem. A lot of thought would need to go into inclusion and trying to make for a real community and shared identity with unionists. Would be interesting and very difficult times.

I think in the meantime, the government should be putting pressure on the GAA to break away from it's republican/political roots -for example stopping with the national anthem before matches, ESPECIALLY in Northern Ireand which let's not forget is a different country. The normalisation of all island bodies as happens a bit in some sports helps to smooth this transition. FAI and IFA joining would be fantastic too (though far fetched I'm led to believe)

Let's just bend over altogether and rejoin the UK. Maybe we can let them do the plantations again just to say we're sorry and make them feel at home.

enda1

Patww79 wrote: »

Let's just bend over altogether and rejoin the UK. Maybe we can let them do the plantations again just to say we're sorry and make them feel at home.

And forever shall the two communities be separate if people like you cannot understand compromise

OldMrBrennan83

enda1 wrote: »

And forever shall the two communities be separate if people like you cannot understand compromise

What you're describing isn't Ireland. Our country isn't even a century old and you want to destroy it to appease the people it was so hard to break free from. Far too high a price.

enda1

Patww79 wrote: »

What you're describing isn't Ireland. Our country isn't even a century old and you want to destroy it to appease the people it was so hard to break free from. Far too high a price.

We'll have to agree to disagree so

Peace, unity and prosperity (TBC!!) is worth changing our anthem for

Wanderer78

Patww79 wrote:

What you're describing isn't Ireland. Our country isn't even a century old and you want to destroy it to appease the people it was so hard to break free from. Far too high a price.

I'd imagine those that ordered the plantations are long dead, and maybe their ideas died with them to? Maybe the majority of UK citizens couldn't give a damn about these ideas and just wanna get on with their lives?

OldMrBrennan83

enda1 wrote: »

We'll have to agree to disagree so

Peace, unity and prosperity (TBC!!) is worth changing our anthem for

All those already exist in our country, as much as anywhere anyway. Why destroy what we have to try achieve it in a part of Britain, they ruined it so let them fix their own problem.

Though you're right, nobody has ever changed anyone's mind here no matter how many pages things like this go on for, so the best thing is agree to differ and use our votes when the time comes.

OldMrBrennan83

Wanderer78 wrote: »

I'd imagine those that ordered the plantations are long dead, and maybe their ideas died with them to? Maybe the majority of UK citizens couldn't give a damn about these ideas and just wanna get on with their lives?

So you'd give up everything and rejoin the UK? It really is saddening to hear how much being reared by the BBC has changed people here.

suicide_circus

I foresee a Brexit style aftermath to a successful UI vote in which those at the head of the unification campaign melt away leaving the arduous practicalities to others.

enda1

suicide_circus wrote: »

I foresee a Brexit style aftermath to a successful UI vote in which those at the head of the unification campaign melt away leaving the arduous practicalities to others.

That's a fair observation I think!

The ideologues always shout the loudest until there's real work to be done.

Wanderer78

Patww79 wrote:

So you'd give up everything and rejoin the UK? It really is saddening to hear how much being reared by the BBC has changed people here.

Hahaha, not at all, we re not doing too bad as it is, but we do need to let go of some of our baggage. I'd imagine there's many UK citizens ****ting themselves over Brexit, effectively wishing them harm is not good, they are human afterall, I'd imagine they just want what we all want, some peace and security in their lives

_Kaiser_

Oh yay! Another United Ireland thread :rolleyes: Well in that case, I'll give the same answers I always do..

- We can't afford it. I know the Government would have us believe the good times are back (baby!), but this country is still suffering massive issues around the cost of living, housing, health care, and the Dublin-rest of the country divide.
We can't even deal with these issues as it is, without taking on even more from NI. I always laugh at these threads.. everyone's for it in principle, but let's say they suggested a €100 "reunification tax" each month. How many would still be backing it then?

- Seeing as the hard-line Unionists and paramilitaries are unlikely to just shrug and go away, how are we to deal with the security risks this would pose?
AGS are woefully incapable of dealing with crime and security as it is (partly down to funding, significantly down to apathy and corruption/incompetence). A full restructuring of the force is needed at this point.

- Why would the people of the North WANT to join this country? Brexit is one thing, but given the factors above and the general waste, incompetence and corruption at pretty much all levels, it's hardly utopia.

um7y1h83ge06nx

Concessions would need to be made to unionists in order to be inclusive. People here saying they want an united Ireland but no concessions, are they willing to accept violence from hardcore loyalists?

Easy to take a hard-line until Gardai and Defence Forces are getting shot at and some of our towns and cities are at risk of bombings.

ELM327

Jaden Ripe Racist wrote: »

Concessions would need to be made to unionists in order to be inclusive. People here saying they want an united Ireland but no concessions, are they willing to accept violence from hardcore loyalists?

Easy to take a hard-line until Gardai and Defence Forces are getting shot at and some of our towns and cities are at risk of bombings.

That's an interesting thought actually.
These boyos are used to being policed, not guarded by unarmed guardians of the peace.


There would need to be a policing solution for the north of Ireland in the event of full recognition of the Irish Republic.

ELM327

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Oh yay! Another United Ireland thread :rolleyes: Well in that case, I'll give the same answers I always do..

- We can't afford it. I know the Government would have us believe the good times are back (baby!), but this country is still suffering massive issues around the cost of living, housing, health care, and the Dublin-rest of the country divide.
We can't even deal with these issues as it is, without taking on even more from NI. I always laugh at these threads.. everyone's for it in principle, but let's say they suggested a €100 "reunification tax" each month. How many would still be backing it then?

- Seeing as the hard-line Unionists and paramilitaries are unlikely to just shrug and go away, how are we to deal with the security risks this would pose?
AGS are woefully incapable of dealing with crime and security as it is (partly down to funding, significantly down to apathy and corruption/incompetence). A full restructuring of the force is needed at this point.

- Why would the people of the North WANT to join this country? Brexit is one thing, but given the factors above and the general waste, incompetence and corruption at pretty much all levels, it's hardly utopia.

"The good times are back" - they may be in most sectors but the country is still being (inexplicably) ran at a deficit as we stand.

Berserker

Jaden Ripe Racist wrote: »

Concessions would need to be made to unionists in order to be inclusive. People here saying they want an united Ireland but no concessions, are they willing to accept violence from hardcore loyalists?

And if concessions were made, the republican community would not be happy and they'd have to deal with the threat of violence from the hardcore element within that community. Can you imagine the amount resources that the police force would need? You'd need to convert AGS into a top tier, world class police force, which is going to cost billions. Not saying anything against AGS, I might add. Policing in a UI would be a completely different ball game though.

ELM327 wrote: »

"The good times are back" - they may be in most sectors but the country is still being (inexplicably) ran at a deficit as we stand.

If the tried to balance the books, they'd get hammered by the opposition.

feargale

end of the road wrote: »

no they would simply be forcing reunification because it's in the majority's interest.

So the majority view of what constitutes the majority's interest, expressed through the ballot box, would be disregarded because somebody somewhere knows better than the majority? Where did that happen before? Hmmm.

SEPT 23 1989

Jaden Ripe Racist wrote: »

Concessions would need to be made to unionists in order to be inclusive. People here saying they want an united Ireland but no concessions, are they willing to accept violence from hardcore loyalists?

Easy to take a hard-line until Gardai and Defence Forces are getting shot at and some of our towns and cities are at risk of bombings.

Violence won't happen according to some on here they will just accept everything

J. Smith

Violence won't happen if we do it right. If we can GENUINELY make them feel welcome and part of a SHARED new society, with EQUAL rights and EQUAL opportunities for ALL – I can't see there being an issue. The island WOULD function better as one – in fact, I think it would THRIVE as one!

But "NHS" "Better off in the UK!" "Why would they WANT to join us?" "We can't afford it!" "Loyalist violence" "Republican violence".

Before anybody should pick me up on the above EXCUSES – I am saying: GENUINELY welcome, SHARED new society, EQUALITY for ALL and a country that will THRIVE. I know what these words mean – I don't just throw them about.

These things can't happen overnight – they take time. We need to build trust between the two sides – faith, and trust – and goodwill. We have to start somewhere.

And maybe those saying "We don't want them down here" – should reflect on their words. Because THEY sound EXACTLY like the people they proclaim not to want.

Wheeliebin30

J. Smith wrote: »

Violence won't happen if we do it right. If we can GENUINELY make them feel welcome and part of a SHARED new society, with EQUAL rights and EQUAL opportunities for ALL – I can't see there being an issue. The island WOULD function better as one – in fact, I think it would THRIVE as one!

But "NHS" "Better off in the UK!" "Why would they WANT to join us?" "We can't afford it!" "Loyalist violence" "Republican violence".

Before anybody should pick me up on the above EXCUSES – I am saying: GENUINELY welcome, SHARED new society, EQUALITY for ALL and a country that will THRIVE. I know what these words mean – I don't just throw them about.

These things can't happen overnight – they take time. We need to build trust between the two sides – faith, and trust – and goodwill. We have to start somewhere.

And maybe those saying "We don't want them down here" – should reflect on their words. Because THEY sound EXACTLY like the people they proclaim not to want.

Sinn Fein and the dup can’t even govern together at the moment.

With Sinn Fein openly mocking the kingsmill massacre as an example we are many years from
both sides trusting each other.

We are so so far away from your utopia.

maccored

we are watching the north head to civil war mk2 - admittedly something thats been highlighted here before, but shouted down with refrains of 'but theres peace'. there hasnt been. the place is more fractured now than ever. yet posters like the above stiill come out wiht the same anti SF tripe

J. Smith

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

Sinn Fein and the dup can’t even govern together at the moment.

With Sinn Fein openly mocking the kingsmill massacre as an example we are many years from
both sides trusting each other.

We are so so far away from your utopia.

I know. Maybe you're right, maybe you're wrong. Maybe we're both right, maybe we're both wrong.

It's EVERYDAY people that matter – not Sinn Fein or the DUP. If enough everyday people on both sides could see that we CAN live together and we CAN respect our respective traditions – I think the Utopia is possible. I think we CAN. I know saying "we can live together" and "we can respect our traditions" are only words too – and they're meaningless without action, trust and goodwill from all concerned. But I'm only speaking MY truth – it's all I can do. I can only speak for me – so if there's any Unionists out there that happen to be reading this – I WILL live with you, and I WILL respect your traditions. Also – this place is REALLY NOT as bad as many on here would have you believe.

Strabanimal

J. Smith wrote: »

Violence won't happen if we do it right. If we can GENUINELY make them feel welcome and part of a SHARED new society, with EQUAL rights and EQUAL opportunities for ALL – I can't see there being an issue. The island WOULD function better as one – in fact, I think it would THRIVE as one!

But "NHS" "Better off in the UK!" "Why would they WANT to join us?" "We can't afford it!" "Loyalist violence" "Republican violence".

Before anybody should pick me up on the above EXCUSES – I am saying: GENUINELY welcome, SHARED new society, EQUALITY for ALL and a country that will THRIVE. I know what these words mean – I don't just throw them about.

These things can't happen overnight – they take time. We need to build trust between the two sides – faith, and trust – and goodwill. We have to start somewhere.

And maybe those saying "We don't want them down here" – should reflect on their words. Because THEY sound EXACTLY like the people they proclaim not to want.

Republicans down South just don't get it up here. You think it's so easy to come together as one, why not try it yourself?

The rest are partionist who are too scared of Loyalists who would have no support and only deal drugs nowadays.

Very weak and silly people. It's noticeable why us Catholics in the North have the better academic results than all of the "Republic" and Britain.

blanch152

Why was anyone surprised when the boys from Belfast made Mary Lou do a u-turn on the conciliatory approach and take a much harder line on the Border Poll issue?

In my opinion, it will be a long time before Sinn Fein are ruled by democratic means.

Strabanimal

maccored wrote: »

we are watching the north head to civil war mk2 - admittedly something thats been highlighted here before, but shouted down with refrains of 'but theres peace'. there hasnt been. the place is more fractured now than ever. yet posters like the above stiill come out with the same anti SF tripe

Even unionists up here forgave that tripe that that posters spouting, but quite a few Mexicans are more Loyalist than the Loyalists up here and I've been saying it for quite some time.

maccored

blanch152 wrote: »

Why was anyone surprised when the boys from Belfast made Mary Lou do a u-turn on the conciliatory approach and take a much harder line on the Border Poll issue?

In my opinion, it will be a long time before Sinn Fein are ruled by democratic means.

whats happening is much larger than SF.

Strabanimal

blanch152 wrote: »

Why was anyone surprised when the boys from Belfast made Mary Lou do a u-turn on the conciliatory approach and take a much harder line on the Border Poll issue?

In my opinion, it will be a long time before Sinn Fein are ruled by democratic means.

Mary Lou hahaha example of a dubliner who thinks they can do it all. Go on ahead and say Londonderry, thinking the Unionists will see it as some sort of sign of peace when visiting. Went down really well didn't it? Anyone can see through her.

SF's goal of having mainly women as their figureheads to seem more progressive is turning on them big time.

mynamejeff

Im all for a united Ireland

long as we can get rid of both tribes of the bigoted backwards criminal subspecies of human drug addicted dole monkeys that inhabit that lovely land

maccored

County Tyrone Lad wrote: »

A few hours earlier...



Don't get me wrong, I'm all for a united Ireland, but if Proddie UVF and UDA scum arseholes are going to cause mass-casualty chaos, what's the point?

There has to be a plan of action for the above.

What do ye think?

was the knee capping drug related? it might suggest that the pool of prospective volunteers are being discouraged from using hard drugs, which might suggest further down the line at least one paramilitary group means to step up their actions. I find that scary tbh

Strabanimal

mynamejeff wrote: »

Im all for a united Ireland

long as we can get rid of both tribes of the bigoted backwards criminal subspecies of human drug addicted dole monkeys that inhabit that lovely land

Dublin is the capital though with the highest drug crime rates. How can we get rid of the capital because Kinahan vs Hutch is nothing like we've seen on the island? Cmon like.

J. Smith

Strabanimal wrote: »

Republicans down South just don't get it up here. You think it's so easy to come together as one, why not try it yourself?
.

Was that question directed to me? Or is it rhetorical?

blanch152

maccored wrote: »

we are watching the north head to civil war mk2 - admittedly something thats been highlighted here before, but shouted down with refrains of 'but theres peace'. there hasnt been. the place is more fractured now than ever. yet posters like the above stiill come out wiht the same anti SF tripe

You have made the most compelling argument against reunification yet.

If the two communities up north can't get on together, why would anyone add a third different community into the mix?

Strabanimal

blanch152 wrote: »

You have made the most compelling argument against reunification yet.

If the two communities up north can't get on together, why would anyone add a third different community into the mix?

A southerner thinks he's a third community to Loyalists and Nationalists up here when a high percentage of Provos where from the South.

Just have generations of your children avoiding the North and Scotland. Surely it will simmer over. Do nothing, like you always do. Pay your water tax and get bummed by everyone James Connolly warned you about!

blanch152

Strabanimal wrote: »

A southerner thinks he's a third community to Loyalists and Nationalists up here when a high percentage of Provos where from the South.

Just have generations of your children avoiding the North and Scotland. Surely it will simmer over. Do nothing, like you always do. Pay your water tax and get bummed by everyone James Connolly warned you about!

Ah, you agree that we are different.