Are transexual women attractive to hetero men?

jonon9

Beanntraigheach

Superficially, as an image/form, yes a (very convincing) transexual "woman" could be visually attractive to a heterosexual man.
But, while physical preferences will vary from man to man, at the most fundamental level, what a heterosexual man is attracted to in a potential mate is her femaleness, her being a woman.
Little could be more off-putting than maleness, however it's packaged.

LLMMLL

doylefe wrote: »

Does not compute.

If someone undergoes surgery to make themselves look like some celebrity, they have mental health issues. Same goes for trans people.

Except the APA recognise that being trans is not a mental health issue.

But sure, your opinion on mental health is more accurate than the American psychiatric associations.

LLMMLL

LLMMLL wrote: »

Except the APA recognise that being trans is not a mental health issue.

But sure, your opinion on mental health is more accurate than the American psychiatric associations.

Is there any wiggle room there? I mean if someone recognises the fact that they are a trans woman but want to present themselves as a woman, that would not be a mental illness, but to think that with hormones and surgery, you can become an actual biological woman, that could be an indication that there may be an underlying bit of a mental health issue?

Annasopra

Deleted User wrote: »

Is there any wiggle room there? I mean if someone recognises the fact that they are a trans woman but want to present themselves as a woman, that would not be a mental illness, but to think that with hormones and surgery, you can become an actual biological woman, that could be an indication that there may be an underlying bit of a mental health issue?

I dont think anyone ever said that trans women are biological women so your hypotheses makes no sense.

P_1

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Is there any wiggle room there? I mean if someone recognises the fact that they are a trans woman but want to present themselves as a woman, that would not be a mental illness, but to think that with hormones and surgery, you can become an actual biological woman, that could be an indication that there may be an underlying bit of a mental health issue?

Eh based on current medical thinking not really. Like some of what is said online by some trans people can appear a bit off the wall to others but that's them voicing their own perspective of things. Text is a bastard of a medium to convey ones thoughts in at times so maybe cut them a little bit of slack. Until you've walked a mile in someone's shoes and all that...

gormdubhgorm

Absolutely not for me. Any transgender woman always looks like an auld wan all dolled up at best, or a man in drag at worst.
The outsized hands and adam's apple don't do it for me at all.
I am sure there are some who might go for it but they would be few and far between.

_Brian

As long as nobody is being deceived then it’s all good.

Personally the fact that a woman was once a man would be a turn off for me.

Franz Von Peppercorn

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Absolutely not for me. Any transgender woman always looks like an auld wan all dolled up at best, or a man in drag at worst.
The outsized hands and adams apple don't do it for me at all.
I am sure there are some who might go for it but they would be few and far between.

Ah. You need to google the Asian trans.

My friend says they pass.

P_1

P_1 wrote: »

Eh based on current medical thinking not really. Like some of what is said online by some trans people can appear a bit off the wall to others but that's them voicing their own perspective of things. Text is a bastard of a medium to convey ones thoughts in at times so maybe cut them a little bit of slack. Until you've walked a mile in someone's shoes and all that...

No I agree and that is why I asked and I don't mean to offend anyone.

I can see that it is no longer classed as a mental illness to want to transition, but is there genuinely current medical thinking that if you think you are biologically a woman, then you can be one?

Joeytheparrot

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

I dont think anyone ever said that trans women are biological women so your hypotheses makes no sense.

Katelyn Jenner won woman of the year?
I've seen tonnes of trans people declaring "I am a woman" or "I am a man".

I wasn't quoting anyone specifically so I was wondering if people who genuinely thought they were biologically the opposite sex may be displaying signs of mental illness.

It wasn't an attack.

P_1

[Deleted User] wrote: »

No I agree and that is why I asked and I don't mean to offend anyone.

I can see that it is no longer classed as a mental illness to want to transition, but is there genuinely current medical thinking that if you think you are biologically a woman, then you can be one?

Others are more educated in this than I am so if any factual errors are made here then by all means please correct me but as far as my understanding is it was recently declassified as a mental illness by the WHO however national health bodies such as the HSE have yet to follow in their footsteps.

I guess it depends on who's guidelines you are following as a medical health professional. If you're following the WHO then the answer is presumably yes but if you're following the HSE then its anybody's guess I think.

All in all it appears that even in the medical field it is a devicive topic which is really unfair on those who it impacts the most on when you think about it.

P_1

P_1 wrote: »

Others are more educated in this than I am so if any factual errors are made here then by all means please correct me but as far as my understanding is it was recently declassified as a mental illness by the WHO however national health bodies such as the HSE have yet to follow in their footsteps.

I guess it depends on who's guidelines you are following as a medical health professional. If you're following the WHO then the answer is presumably yes but if you're following the HSE then its anybody's guess I think.

All in all it appears that even in the medical field it is a devicive topic which is really unfair on those who it impacts the most on when you think about it.

Thank you. I was getting mixed answers when I was looking into it myself.

cantdecide

I follow a trans youtuber than restores and builds guitars and by coincidence I found her making a speech about trans issues elsewhere where she says her partner is a cis-hetero man so I guess it can happen.

P_1

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Thank you. I was getting mixed answers when I was looking into it myself.

It really is a horrific mess and you can really understand why people who it impacts on can sometimes tend to lash out at people who are genuinely trying to get their heads around it when there is so much thrash out there that is basically denying their right to exist.

So much misunderstanding out there on both sides (albeit much more pronounced on one side to be fair) its tragic and so many suicides as a result.

Venom

P_1 wrote: »

It really is a horrific mess and you can really understand why people who it impacts on can sometimes tend to lash out at people who are genuinely trying to get their heads around it when there is so much thrash out there that is basically denying their right to exist.

So much misunderstanding out there on both sides (albeit much more pronounced on one side to be fair) its tragic and so many suicides as a result.

It wouldn't hurt their cause any if they stuck with just he/she and dropped the gazillion bloody pronouns.

somefeen

Venom wrote: »

It wouldn't hurt their cause any if they stuck with just he/she and dropped the gazillion bloody pronouns.

The vast majority of trans people only use he or she.
The weird pronouns are for the gender fluid people

P_1

Venom wrote: »

It wouldn't hurt their cause any if they stuck with just he/she and dropped the gazillion bloody pronouns.

Ok this is what I dont get. What issue do people have with the gender neutral pronouns? Is it that they sound silly or is it something else? Not having a pop or anything it's just genuine curiosity

wexie

P_1 wrote: »

Ok this is what I dont get. What issue do people have with the gender neutral pronouns? Is it that they sound silly or is it something else? Not having a pop or anything it's just genuine curiosity

I don't have an issue with 'they/them' which seems to be a perfectly usable gender neutral pronoun and would be quite happy to use it.

But why all the other ones? Why where they made up? What's wrong with they/them? Why should we use them? What's the difference between 'ae' and 'ey' and 've', 'xe' and 'ze'?

I'm sorry but I can't bring myself to take any of that nonsense seriously.

He/she/it/they....that's all I need and until someone can give me some convincing answer to the questions above that's going to be unlikely to change.

P_1

wexie wrote: »

I don't have an issue with 'they/them' which seems to be a perfectly usable gender neutral pronoun and would be quite happy to use it.

But why all the other ones? Why where they made up? What's wrong with they/them? Why should we use them? What's the difference between 'ae' and 'ey' and 've', 'xe' and 'ze'?

I'm sorry but I can't bring myself to take any of that nonsense seriously.

He/she/it/they....that's all I need and until someone can give me some convincing answer to the questions above that's going to be unlikely to change.

Yeah I'd be in agreement. Nothing wrong with using they but (and I do feel a bit shïtty for this) I cant see myself using zey and the like without struggling to keep a straight face

rgodard80a

Redpatio wrote: »

It's a very general question of course but think it could prompt and interesting discussion.

No.

But I imagine in Ireland/UK they begin treatment in adulthood when most of the masculine features are well established. Very hard to disguise their biological beginnings with make-up and a wig.

The Bishop Basher

Deleted User wrote: »

Thank you. I was getting mixed answers when I was looking into it myself.

I understand that the WHO are reclassifying it away from a mental illness but I don't get what they're changing it to ?

And why do they make the point of stating that the treatment remains the same despite the reclassification. Surely that means the condition requiring treatment remains the same.

I honestly get the desire for people to not want the stigma of a mental illness especially on top of everything else they're going through but I also think we don't do anyone any favours by ignoring reality and making **** up..

There has to be a mental health element to this..

skybox2014

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

I dont think anyone ever said that trans women are biological women so your hypotheses makes no sense.

Riley Denis, Julia Serano and plenty on Twitter certainly make this claim on a regular basis.
Apparently sex is a 'social construct' and not a biological fact anymore.

gormdubhgorm

P_1 wrote: »

Yeah I'd be in agreement. Nothing wrong with using they but (and I do feel a bit shïtty for this) I cant see myself using zey and the like without struggling to keep a straight face

Why would you feel sh1tty? Its a joke.
In years to come people will be laughing at this type of stuff.
It has to have been invented by american loolaas it makes no sense whatsoever.
People pop out male or female.
If people want to chop bits off or add bits on, that is up to them.
But to try and create a whole language around it that is daft.

I mean how would you translate all them pro-nouns into Irish for example?
Stick a fada on it and hope for the best?

Also where does it stop would I be permitted too say 'yer man' or 'yer wan' ?
Or do I just last z's in it and hope for the best?
Example:
"The head on zer zan"

wexie

P_1 wrote: »

Yeah I'd be in agreement. Nothing wrong with using they but (and I do feel a bit shïtty for this) I cant see myself using zey and the like without struggling to keep a straight face

I can't help it, but everytime i see reference to 'ze' I automatically follow it with 'Germans' in my head

AtomicHorror

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Why would you feel sh1tty? Its a joke.
In years to come people will be laughing at this type of stuff.
It has to have been invented by american loolaas it makes no sense whatsoever.
People pop out male or female.
If people want to chop bits off or add bits on, that is up to them.
But to try and create a whole language around it that is daft.

What's so difficult about calling people what they'd like to be called? We manage just fine with everyone having their own name, which could be any one of thousands we know, or one of millions we've never even heard before. It could be unpronounceable. It might be written with a different alphabet. We ask a person what they're named, then we call them that. If we get it wrong, they correct us and we say sorry and do it right next time. It's grand.

Compared to that a few extra pronouns is nothing.

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

I mean how would you translate all them pro-nouns into Irish for example?
Stick a fada on it and hope for the best?

How did Irish manage with the other thousands of new concepts that were invented after the language died and got put on life support? It was fine. Here you are ag surfail ar an idirlíon gan fadhb.

People are awful quick to invent problems with stuff rather than try to understand it.

AtomicHorror

AtomicHorror wrote: »

What's so difficult about calling people what they'd like to be called? We manage just fine with everyone having their own name, which could be any one of thousands we know, or one of millions we've never even heard before. It could be unpronounceable. It might be written with a different alphabet. We ask a person what they're named, then we call them that. If we get it wrong, they correct us and we say sorry and do it right next time. It's grand.

Compared to that a few extra pronouns is nothing.



How did Irish manage with the other thousands of new concepts that were invented after the language died and got put on life support? It was fine. Here you are ag surfail ar an idirlíon gan fadhb.

People are awful quick to invent problems with stuff rather than try to understand it.

If my preferred pronoun was King or Ruler or something offensive like "Mohammed is gay" would you refer to me as my preferred pronouns?

You can't just create your own reality and expect everyone to accept it. Where does it end?

VonZan

P_1 wrote: »

Ok this is what I dont get. What issue do people have with the gender neutral pronouns? Is it that they sound silly or is it something else? Not having a pop or anything it's just genuine curiosity

I don't think there is a problem with the pronoun; it's the offence and the policing of language from some sections of the LGBT+ community that people have an issue with.

I have no issue with people identifying with whatever they want to identity with but if you look slightly like a woman and I happen to call you she then you shouldn't be offended by that. In the same vein if I know you and you identify with a different pronoun then I would have no issue with referring to you by whatever term you like but I don't believe I should be legally obliged to do so.

AtomicHorror

Deleted User wrote: »

If my preferred pronoun was King or Ruler or something offensive like "Mohammed is gay" would you refer to me as my preferred pronouns?

If transgender/genderfluid people ever decide to make their pronouns deliberately provocative or offensive, you might have a point. Since they haven't, you really don't.

Deleted User wrote: »

You can't just create your own reality and expect everyone to accept it. Where does it end?

Choosing a name is not creating your own reality. At most it's creating a label and identity for yourself. A pronoun is just a shortcut for a person's name, so it's the same deal.

The slippery slope argument is tired af. It's the conservative's easy argument against any and all change from the status quo.

hetuzozaho

[Deleted User] wrote: »

If my preferred pronoun was King or Ruler or something offensive like "Mohammed is gay" would you refer to me as my preferred pronouns?

You can't just create your own reality and expect everyone to accept it. Where does it end?

Suppose people could change their name to these things, seems to be going fine so far?

gormdubhgorm

AtomicHorror wrote: »

What's so difficult about calling people what they'd like to be called? We manage just fine with everyone having their own name, which could be any one of thousands we know, or one of millions we've never even heard before. It could be unpronounceable. It might be written with a different alphabet. We ask a person what they're named, then we call them that. If we get it wrong, they correct us and we say sorry and do it right next time. It's grand.

Compared to that a few extra pronouns is nothing.

A few extra pro-nouns? Would you come off it it is laughable.
Just because people cannot accept they were male/female at one point and decided to multilate themsleves for thier own peice of mind a non-sensical new grammar has to be invented to mask over their delusion?

If someone cannot pronounce a persons name they get a nickname like those Chinese that get called 'Bob'.

Nobody in thier right mind is going to go on with this zee and zim.
It is unintentional comedy stuff invented by americans.

It reminds me of the Micky Flanagan sketch about wigs:

Except we have to colude in the illusion that these people are not him or her, but zee and zim.
Particular Americans would be horrified if you called a transgender person him/her because of the makey uppy policitcal correctness trend surrounding it etc.

Annasopra

Deleted User wrote: »

Katelyn Jenner won woman of the year?
I've seen tonnes of trans people declaring "I am a woman" or "I am a man".

I wasn't quoting anyone specifically so I was wondering if people who genuinely thought they were biologically the opposite sex may be displaying signs of mental illness.

It wasn't an attack.

I didnt say it was an attack to be fair.

The term "woman" can also include trans women. It doesnt necessarily mean "a biological natal woman"

Again I dont think any trans person who was assigned male at birth and identifies as a woman claims to be "a biological woman"

Joeytheparrot

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

I didnt say it was an attack to be fair.

The term "woman" can also include trans women. It doesnt necessarily mean "a biological natal woman"

Again I dont think any trans person who was assigned male at birth and identifies as a woman claims to be "a biological woman"

This is where i think there is a problem.

I have to be called a cis man now in some conversations because "man" is redefined to include trans men and it would be considered rude to not accept that they are men even though you dont think that any trans person would claim to be a biological man. And a woman can have a penis and father a child. and a man can carry a baby in his womb and give birth.

Edit: We have gone way off topic. Sorry OP

gormdubhgorm

Deleted User wrote: »

This is where i think there is a problem.

I have to be called a cis man now in some conversations because "man" is redefined to include trans men and it would be considered rude to not accept that they are men even though you dont think that any trans person would claim to be a biological man. And a woman can have a penis and father a child. and a man can carry a baby in his womb and give birth.

Edit: We have gone way off topic. Sorry OP

I suppose linguists might find transgender women attractive at this rate?

jbt123

P_1 wrote: »

... so maybe cut them a little bit of slack. Until you've walked a mile in someone's shoes and all that...

Would that be in high heels or a pair of size 10 loafers...

jbt123

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

I suppose linguists might find transgender women attractive at this rate?

If they're cunning enough, I suppose so..

pleas advice

Thats a fallacy, ..oh

Outlaw Pete

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4XENwnPs-Is

Calhoun

Apparently real men like trans women, so I assume that trans women like men from that statement alone.

P_1

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Why would you feel sh1tty? Its a joke.
In years to come people will be laughing at this type of stuff.
It has to have been invented by american loolaas it makes no sense whatsoever.
People pop out male or female.
If people want to chop bits off or add bits on, that is up to them.
But to try and create a whole language around it that is daft.

I mean how would you translate all them pro-nouns into Irish for example?
Stick a fada on it and hope for the best?

Also where does it stop would I be permitted too say 'yer man' or 'yer wan' ?
Or do I just last z's in it and hope for the best?
Example:
"The head on zer zan"

Well I guess its because you wouldn't laugh at someone's name to their face so why would you do the same with the pronouns they ask you to refer to them with. Politeness more than anything

pickarooney

AtomicHorror wrote: »

What's so difficult about calling people what they'd like to be called? We manage just fine with everyone having their own name, which could be any one of thousands we know, or one of millions we've never even heard before. It could be unpronounceable. It might be written with a different alphabet. We ask a person what they're named, then we call them that. If we get it wrong, they correct us and we say sorry and do it right next time. It's grand.

Compared to that a few extra pronouns is nothing.



How did Irish manage with the other thousands of new concepts that were invented after the language died and got put on life support? It was fine. Here you are ag surfail ar an idirlíon gan fadhb.

People are awful quick to invent problems with stuff rather than try to understand it.

In what situation would you use anything other than 'you' to address a person directly?

hatrickpatrick

Personally from me it's a definite no. And I find the movement among some SJWs to shame men like me for our sexual preference utterly bizarre.

suicide_circus

Lemongrease

manonboard wrote: »

I'm hetro cis male.
Someone once gave me a thought experiment that was "Think of some really sexy women's clothes you like. Like a lacy bra, some underwear etc.. Now do you find that attractive?"
"Yes"
"Well that's not a biological women you find attractive. That's fabric material. You're attractive to things that represent to you stuff you have previously found yourself attracted to. Some is down to biology and culture, some is down to just practicing your attraction to it. So now you know that you can be attracted to things that are not women".

It was a quite a blunt, but interesting eye opener many years ago.

I would not date a trans woman most likely. A lot of their life they were living a male life. Their stories and life would represent this. Parts of their personality would be formed around this. It's not about just being attracted to a body. It's a whole life of a person in that body. It's fine to not what to be with someone because of stuff they've don't in their past. It's not judgemental to be content for them but still serve your own preferences.

What is cis? Is that short for sissy?

Omackeral

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

Again I dont think any trans person who was assigned male at birth and identifies as a woman claims to be "a biological woman"

You mean born a baby boy? That's what it is. I wasn't assigned anything but my name at birth. Trash talk.

Omackeral

Lemongrease wrote: »

What is cis? Is that short for sissy?

The opposite of trans. So just what you were born as. It's a bit of a redundant term when not discussing trans issues.

Lemongrease

Omackeral wrote: »

The opposite of trans. So just what you were born as. It's a bit of a redundant term when not discussing trans issues.

Never heard it before. So someone who doesn’t want their pee-pee removed? Never understood get rid of the pee-pee sure that’s the of the orgasmics then ?

tedpan

Who knows what goes on in people's heads? You fancy who you fancy..

Welcome to boards OP

Brian?

Working class heroes wrote: »

I’d try anything once.

My motto is: I’d try anything twice. You might’ve done it wrong the first time.

AnneFrank

These topics are just crazy.
If by transexual woman you mean a man dressed up as a woman then he's simply gay.
You cannot change from man to woman or vice versa no matter what surgery you have.
It's just like dressing up for halloween