Are transexual women attractive to hetero men?

The Bishop Basher

ceadaoin. wrote: »

Is hormone treatment going to shrink the skeletons of biological males, and reduce lung and heart capacity to completely remove any advantage? The answer is no

Also, the levels of testosterone allowed in trans athletes is well above what the average female would naturally have, even those who are professional athletes.

I wouldn't entertain this hormone nonsense at all.

Fine if you want to transition but not for competing in sport as a different gender. It just shouldn't happen. Ever.

This is where the rubber hits the road on this stuff and as far as medical science goes today..

No amount of hormones or sugery will ever change your gender. They might help you to look and act more like your desired gender but that's it. That's as far as it goes. You're still whatever you were when you were born. You can't deny scientific and biological fact and if you do, there's no question that there's a mental health element to this.

We have to stop dancing around this nonsense.

Greyfox

Some are definitely attractive, those who deny it are lying

Annasopra

Rennaws wrote: »

I wouldn't entertain this hormone nonsense at all.

Fine if you want to transition but not for competing in sport as a different gender.

What? Who decides to medically transition in order to compete in sport? Seriously you are spouting out nonsense there.

TerrorFirmer

Sal Butamol wrote: »

Some of them do a great job to be fair, they could be professional stylists or make up artists

That first girl is Irish. I first saw photos of her on 4Chan of all places where they love discussing trans women on the random board (amongst other things). They definitely love her over there!

Be rare to see someone that's FTM as undetectable passable as that, definitely very good looking.

suicide_circus

m2f people seem to be almost uniformly into a stereotypical girly hyper feminine look - hair, make up, boobs out etc

the lady doth protest too much methinks

Signore Fancy Pants

Pa8301 wrote: »

Is the last one not Glenda Gilson?! ;-)

It's Glen Gilson.

Sal Butamol

Chewbacca wrote: »

It's Glen Gilson.

He's Irish too I think

sxt

Deleted User wrote: »

Need examples.

She would not look out of place in that "most beautiful women in the world" thread

Star Bingo

Say hello to the thai Boyzone

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tBu-ewMRhkA

If these haven’t appeared in your feed there’s something right with you.....

jobbridge4life

suicide_circus wrote: »

m2f people seem to be almost uniformly into a stereotypical girly hyper feminine look - hair, make up, boobs out etc

the lady doth protest too much methinks

Hi Suicide,

How many transwomen have you actually met in real life? Or are we just going by the ones that are featured in the media? I don't know many and none closely but the very few I have encountered wanted to be as inconspicuous as possible.

jobbridge4life

ELM327 wrote: »

If someone can be found guilty of rape for removing a condom, this is actually closer to the idea of rape than that. It's literally using false pretences to induce sex.

This is a difficult aspect of dealing with the reality of trans individuals in society. If you accept that 'using false pretences to induce sex' is rape, then what about someone who claims to work in specific occupation but doesn't? Or who claims that they're really not into casual sex and will definitely call you the day after? Or if you are an Arab Israeli and a woman mistakes you for a Jewish person?

One eyed Jack

jobbridge4life wrote: »

This is a difficult aspect of dealing with the reality of trans individuals in society. If you accept that 'using false pretences to induce sex' is rape, then what about someone who claims to work in specific occupation but doesn't? Or who claims that they're really not into casual sex and will definitely call you the day after? Or if you are an Arab Israeli and a woman mistakes you for a Jewish person?

Each case depends upon the circumstances and the nature of the acts in question. There’s been plenty of cases in Ireland where the jury was of the opinion that the person could not have had a reasonable belief that the victim would have given consent in those circumstances.

jobbridge4life

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Each case depends upon the circumstances and the nature of the acts in question. There’s been plenty of cases in Ireland where the jury was of the opinion that the person could not have had a reasonable belief that the victim would have given consent in those circumstances.

In what circumstances?

One eyed Jack

jobbridge4life wrote: »

In what circumstances?

In circumstances where the defendant claimed the sexual encounter was consensual.

Star Bingo

jobbridge4life wrote: »

Hi Suicide,

How many transwomen have you actually met in real life? Or are we just going by the ones that are featured in the media? I don't know many and none closely but the very few I have encountered wanted to be as inconspicuous as possible.

Hi indeed, I considered snuffing myself out so betrayed did I feel - she was cool; she was sophisticated she was charismatic. She was my little dark angel with the purple lip gloss

and the collection of little jaunty hats.... she made me feel young again but in the end I realised something had most certainly been lost in translation. I felt dirty, like I was being strung along the whole time and my world had just been turned upside down. May have been she was just as apprehensive as I but for a totally different reason, as it transpired and so I had to end it - or so I felt as we continued as friends albeit in an abstract manner out of sheer common courtesy until we just drifted apart but I had finally escaped the clutches. The web of deceit; the pitfall of my own device.... it took me years took recover but here I am a stronger man who lived to tell the tale.

jobbridge4life

One eyed Jack wrote: »

In circumstances where the defendant claimed the sexual encounter was consensual.

OEJ, my point was explicitly in relation to the argument that 'using false pretences to induce sex' is rape. I won't be exploding that into a page long posts debates.

IF we accept that 'using false pretences to induce sex' is rape then where does it end? That is all. If you have an opinion on that I'd be interested to read it.

Atoms for Peace

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Where does "cis" come from?

Is an important distinction if I am cis?

And can I use different pronouns if I feel like?

Cis and trans are isomers.

rgodard80a

jobbridge4life wrote: »

IF we accept that 'using false pretences to induce sex' is rape then where does it end? That is all. If you have an opinion on that I'd be interested to read it.

In the UK last year they jailed a woman for pretending to be a man when having blindfolded sex with another woman.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/jun/29/gayle-newland-found-guilty-at-retrial-of-tricking-female-friend-into-sex

jobbridge4life

rgodard80a wrote: »

In the UK last year they jailed a woman for pretending to be a man when having blindfolded sex with another woman.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/jun/29/gayle-newland-found-guilty-at-retrial-of-tricking-female-friend-into-sex

Yes indeed. It is a very difficult question. I honestly don't know where I come down on the matter. In relation to the case you mentioned it seems a very deliberate pattern of deception was a crucial factor. Not to mention that the accused is not and did not present as transgender man.

One eyed Jack

jobbridge4life wrote: »

OEJ, my point was explicitly in relation to the argument that 'using false pretences to induce sex' is rape. I won't be exploding that into a page long posts debates.

IF we accept that 'using false pretences to induce sex' is rape then where does it end? That is all. If you have an opinion on that I'd be interested to read it.

I’ll save you the time jb, I don’t accept the premise of the previous posters argument at all. The easiest answer to the “where does it end?” slippery slope argument is fairly obvious though - it doesn’t end. That’s how new legislation replaces old legislation.

seamus

ceadaoin. wrote: »

There are trans athletes who are not on hormones competing against girls in Connecticut state high school competitions.

Yeah that's ridiculous and not at all in line with professional bodies. That's the stupidity of the schools at play.

Is hormone treatment going to shrink the skeletons of biological males, and reduce lung and heart capacity to completely remove any advantage? The answer is no

The answer is apparently yes to all of the above. Bone density is reduced, as is muscular density and VO2 capacity.
There are a small number of sports where a larger skeleton is an advantage. But in basketball, for example, the women are touching 7 feet anyway. For many a larger and more brittle skeleton is a distinct disadvantage.

A larger heart and lungs with reduced oxyegn uptake capacity is a disadvantage again and will probably bring you to an early grave.

Also, the levels of testosterone allowed in trans athletes is well above what the average female would naturally have, even those who are professional athletes.

Sport depending.

Whether transitioned athletes, properly vetted, enjoy an advantage is yet to be seen. The lack of them dominating at the elite level would seem to suggest not.

So until we see evidence to the contrary, this seems like puritanical hysteria just like the nonsense about toilets and prisoners.

Galwayguy35

sxt wrote: »

Does anybody remember this show?There's something about Miriam

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rr6SXpdzMdc

Yeah remember that, she was very convincing.

Lemongrease

Sal Butamol wrote: »

Some of them do a great job to be fair, they could be professional stylists or make up artists





But there's usually tell-tale signs that surgery can't hide, like large hands and the male jawline

Is that last one Glenda Gilson ?

jobbridge4life

One eyed Jack wrote: »

I’ll save you the time jb, I don’t accept the premise of the previous posters argument at all. The easiest answer to the “where does it end?” slippery slope argument is fairly obvious though - it doesn’t end. That’s how new legislation replaces old legislation.

Sorry if the abbreviation of your username came across as condescending, I really didn't mean it like that.

Thanks for succinctly providing your view. I really just don't know where I come down this particular issue. IF I make explicitly clear to you that I will not have sex with you without a condom and then you deliberately chose not to, but tell me you are, are you guilt free? No, I suppose not, should you be criminally liable? I just don't know. Is consenting to the act contingent on all the delusions I may hold about you being true? I guess not either... I just have not been able to determine the line here.

One eyed Jack

jobbridge4life wrote: »

Sorry if the abbreviation of your username came across as condescending, I really didn't mean it like that.

No I didn’t take it that way at all, ‘‘tis a bit of a mouthful... pardon the pun :pac:

Thanks for succinctly providing your view. I really just don't know where I come down this particular issue. IF I make explicitly clear to you that I will not have sex with you without a condom and then you deliberately chose not to, but tell me you are, are you guilt free? No, I suppose not, should you be criminally liable? I just don't know. Is consenting to the act contingent on all the delusions I may hold about you being true? I guess not either... I just have not been able to determine the line here.

I think as far as criminal liability for sexual offences goes, the effect it has on the victim should be given consideration by the Courts. It’s not really something that can be written in black and white letter law though. If you were to consider that before 1990 for example in Ireland there was no offence committed if a man raped his wife. Nowadays that would be considered an abhorrent criminal act.

With regards to the position people who are transgender often find themselves in, I can honestly say in 40 years on this earth I’ve never met a person who was transgender who sought to ‘trap’ unsuspecting men. It really is the stuff of Hollywood movies, an idea that’s literally blown out of all proportion, as the chances of it ever happening to any man are incredibly unlikely due to the reality of people who are transgender generally fearing for their own safety.

ceadaoin.

seamus wrote: »

Yeah that's ridiculous and not at all in line with professional bodies. That's the stupidity of the schools at play.


The answer is apparently yes to all of the above. Bone density is reduced, as is muscular density and VO2 capacity.
There are a small number of sports where a larger skeleton is an advantage. But in basketball, for example, the women are touching 7 feet anyway. For many a larger and more brittle skeleton is a distinct disadvantage.

A larger heart and lungs with reduced oxyegn uptake capacity is a disadvantage again and will probably bring you to an early grave.

Sport depending.

Whether transitioned athletes, properly vetted, enjoy an advantage is yet to be seen. The lack of them dominating at the elite level would seem to suggest not.

So until we see evidence to the contrary, this seems like puritanical hysteria just like the nonsense about toilets and prisoners.

Well there aren't enough trans athletes competing at elite level yet to see how much they will dominate. There are several examples so far though. Have you heard of Laurel Hubbard? Mediocre as a male weightlifter but is suddenly winning competitions and setting records in the women's weighlifting league. Even with hormone therapy. Why do you think that is? The previous champion felt she had to drop drown in weight so she would have a fair competition. Fallon fox? MMA fighter that injured a woman so severely she had to be hospitalised. Never happened before.

Why are there no restrictions on the hormone levels of trans men athletes? Because it still doesn't give them a significant advantage against males, they will never be able to dominate

Also, there have been several incidents of female prisoners being assaulted by male inmates who claim to be trans. One case happened just last month in the UK

but of course, it's puritanical hysteria, never happens. And if it does well its hardly ever right? in my opinion, women being forced out of sport by biological males or forced to share intimate spaces with male sex offenders shouldn't happen even once

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leeds-44877856

P_1

Ok a hell of a lot af genuine questions and honest concerns here.

I'd like to think I have a reasonable understanding of what people are concerned about here and I'm connected enough to some people on the other side to answer factually.

Feel free to quote this post with questions and I'll do my best to answer them.

Lemongrease

P_1 wrote: »

Ok a hell of a lot af genuine questions and honest concerns here.

I'd like to think I have a reasonable understanding of what people are concerned about here and I'm connected enough to some people on the other side to answer factually.

Feel free to quote this post with questions and I'll do my best to answer them.

Do transsexualists still get orgasms?

Hottest woman I was ever with could have been a ladyboy in hindsight. I'll never know for sure but it's a 50/50, like her I suppose.

Me and the girlfriend went to Nana the last time were in Thailand and both can safely say there are some stunners rocking about that would make you wonder.

Outlaw Pete

If I seen Treechada Petcharat (aka Nong Poy) in a club I don't think I'd question her gender for a second.





Jakabos Zsuzsanna's face would fool me also but I think her broad shoulders and torso would maybe have me questioning her gender.

She's a Hungarian swimmer who competed in the Olympics four times.

Will I Am Not

Lemongrease wrote: »

Is that last one Glenda Gilson ?

Pretty sure the other one used to be a guy from the same town as me.

Frank O. Pinion

Sal Butamol wrote: »

She's on FabSwingers...or so I'm told.

P_1

Lemongrease wrote: »

Do transsexualists still get orgasms?

I'm sure they do though it probably depends on how well their partner performs

suicide_circus

jobbridge4life wrote: »

Hi Suicide,

How many transwomen have you actually met in real life? Or are we just going by the ones that are featured in the media? I don't know many and none closely but the very few I have encountered wanted to be as inconspicuous as possible.

met in real life? maybe 3 or 4. not a great sample size but now that you mention it maybe it's the more "convincing" examples that tend to go for the classically feminine look

sbsquarepants

sxt wrote: »

She would not look out of place in that "most beautiful women in the world" thread

Is she really trans?

She's drop dead gorgeous!

Sal Butamol wrote: »

Some of them do a great job to be fair, they could be professional stylists or make up artists

One of these is a definite yes from me, the other is Glenda Gilson:D

Sorry Glenda - I just can't fathom how you ever made it as a model!

PlaneSpeeking

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

What? Who decides to medically transition in order to compete in sport? Seriously you are spouting out nonsense there.

I know of at least one golfer who has "identified" as female to play, he is now cleaning up the club prizes as the course is nearly a km less than the male golfers play off. Handicap is 1 too, no female golfer at the club has lower than 4 currently.

Golf club currently too scared of press and Twitter reactions to do anything.

italodisco

The simple answer is yes.
Dublin is full of South American trans prostitutes, they are hardly getting visits from mostly women.

There's one who trains in our gym who has openly told me that she had 5 regulars a week and up to 5 more random clients average, all men.

seamus

More anecdotes that just happen to fit the topic at hand? No way, what a coincidence!

Annasopra

seamus wrote: »

More anecdotes that just happen to fit the topic at hand? No way, what a coincidence!

Yeah a random meaningless anecdote too ;-)

wexie

PlaneSpeeking wrote: »

I know of at least one golfer who has "identified" as female to play, he is now cleaning up the club prizes as the course is nearly a km less than the male golfers play off. Handicap is 1 too, no female golfer at the club has lower than 4 currently.

Golf club currently too scared of press and Twitter reactions to do anything.

You know, regardless of whether or not you think gender dysphoria is a mental health issue, if you decide to identify as female to win the golf club championship and improve your handicap you need professional help.

Will I Am Not

seamus wrote: »

More anecdotes that just happen to fit the topic at hand? No way, what a coincidence!

Just as crazy as trying to claim that people wouldn’t know the difference between real genitalia and surgically created genatalia eh?

Outlaw Pete

sbsquarepants wrote: »

Is she really trans? She's drop dead gorgeous!!

Yeah, she's the same one as the first pic in my post above, Treechada Petcharat (aka Nong Poy).

seamus

Will I Am Not wrote: »

Just as crazy as trying to claim that people wouldn’t know the difference between real genitalia and surgically created genatalia eh?

Oh look, another poster who seems obsessed with my post history and dragging up stuff badly paraphrased and out of context!

Are you just one person with a load of accounts and way too much time on your hands, or do you you all have a little shared database of categorised stuff?

PlaneSpeeking

Will I Am Not wrote: »

Just as crazy as trying to claim that people wouldn’t know the difference between real genitalia and surgically created genatalia eh?

Got that particular poster on ignore there Will but can see through your reply.

Heaven forbid people have extensive real world experience lasting 50 years eh ?

Will I Am Not

seamus wrote: »

Oh look, another poster who seems obsessed with my post history and dragging up stuff badly paraphrased and out of context!

Are you just one person with a load of accounts and way too much time on your hands, or do you you all have a little shared database of categorised stuff?

No, I just don’t have dementia and remember posts from a thread we both contributed to.
And obsessed? Have I done this before? Maybe I do have dementia after all.

sbsquarepants

wexie wrote: »

You know, regardless of whether or not you think gender dysphoria is a mental health issue, if you decide to identify as female to win the golf club championship and improve your handicap you need professional help.

Not from a golf professional you don't.
Personally I think you have to just stand back and admire that level of machiavellian scheming.

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

Yeah, she's the same one as the first pic in my post above, Treechada Petcharat (aka Nong Poy).

Clearly then, I am uninterested in the x's and the y's of a persons chromosomes because that is a definite yes from me!
(Conditional on there being no langer hiding in those bikini bottoms, I'm just old fashioned that way!)

seamus

Will I Am Not wrote: »

No, I just don’t have dementia and remember posts from a thread we both contributed to.

Then you've a better memory than me.

Still seems somewhat obsessive since it has nothing to do with the post that you responded to.

Any road...

Will I Am Not

seamus wrote: »

Then you've a better memory than me.

Still seems somewhat obsessive since it has nothing to do with the post that you responded to.

Any road...

It stood out as one of the more bizarre claims I’ve heard on the topic to be honest. Nothing obsessive about it.

AndrewJRenko

PlaneSpeeking wrote: »

I know of at least one golfer who has "identified" as female to play, he is now cleaning up the club prizes as the course is nearly a km less than the male golfers play off. Handicap is 1 too, no female golfer at the club has lower than 4 currently.

Golf club currently too scared of press and Twitter reactions to do anything.

Which club is this in?

statesaver

No.