Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2018/2019 [Mod note 31-Aug-18]

yourdeadwright

Jose will turn it into him and the players v Woodward , Hes a very clever guy
Just seen the post match press conference he lost his composure there

paulbok

limnam wrote: »

Couldn't hear them at all..

Think you'd have needed a time machine.
Blue shirts on the pitch, probably taken when Jose was at Chelsea

Turtwig

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

Who signed Lindelof? Bailly? Dalot?

More to the point, why were the apparent 'deficient' centre backs left with so many 1v1s? If there's a weak area in your team you don't leave it open and exposed. You try to accommodate for it as much as possible.

Mr.Nice Guy

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

Who signed Lindelof? Bailly? Dalot?

Dalot?

Also what manager makes 100% good signings. If Billy and linderoff were mistakes then you are only compoundingbthe mistakes by insisting on going into the season with them, if Jose wasn't to be trusted with more money get in someone who was it's fairly ducking simple. Instead we went with the let's waste the season option

WinnyThePoo

Actually thought the system worked for the first half. The players looked energised and pressed. Shaw had a good game. Fred was busy.

Spurs were not worth the 3-0 advantage.

Lukaku really should have scored though.

Tonight is disappointing, but I feel more hope after this game oddly.

nullzero

How can any manager get that defence playing?
Jose might have lost the dressing room but that doesn't excuse what we're seeing these players produce. They look like a defence that came up from the championship and have been caught out by the pace of the game.
We could get Pep over from city to take over from Jose and we'd still be crap, because we didn't address the problem in defence. Jose has a lot to answer for but so does Woodward, the real losers are the United fans. There is no managerial appointment that can be enough of a silver bullet to fix the problems we have. Alderweireld was conspicuously immense for Spurs tonight, ffs Woodward you git.

~Rebel~

Really doubt Jose will be going for at least another 6 or 7 league games, regardless what happens. Has to at least be given 1/4 of the season.

Only Zidane is available of the proper caliber, and I doubt he'd take it. Otherwise... Rodgers has been complaining about the board at celtic a bit, could probably get him. Though I'm sure Utd fans would hate it. Far from ideal for what Utd aspire to, but I daresay he might do better than a lot of the other options that might be considered.

Muahahaha

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Do Woodward and the glazers truly care though? I have to think not because this was utterly predictable.

Glazers only really seem to care about top 4. With Spurs, Chelsea, Liverpool fast out of the traps and City right behind them this season is going to be very competitive and Utd are already six points off the pace. Glazers need to open the purse in January or top 4 is gonna be very hard to achieve.

nullzero

thegreengoblin wrote: »

Mourinho making an absolute show of himself in the post-match interview before walking out.

"We lost 3-0, three the same number of Premierships I have, more than the other 19 managers put together, respect, respect, respect."

We're at pantomime levels now.

OH no we're not...

PhlegmyMoses

mosstin wrote: »

https://twitter.com/AlderweireldTob/status/1034186048040050698

Why is this in here?

Turtwig

Turtwig wrote: »

More to the point, why were the apparent 'deficient' centre backs left with so many 1v1s? If there's a weak area in your team you don't leave it open and exposed. You try to accommodate for it as much as possible.

You never seen a team chase a game before no?

rob316

If the defensive players are the problem and not the manager why is the attack non existent? Why does Sanchez look like a pub player after signing as one of the top players in the league?

limnam

~Rebel~ wrote: »

R. Rodgers has been complaining about the board at celtic a bit, could probably get him. Though I'm sure Utd fans would hate it. Far from ideal for what Utd aspire to, but I daresay he might do better than a lot of the other options that might be considered.

fck sake.

beno619

Lord TSC wrote: »

That he wanted to have a long, successful career at United?

That Mourinho is on his way out. You've dressed up this opinion in so many different ways.

limnam

rob316 wrote: »

If the defensive players are the problem and not the manager why is the attack non existent? Why does Sanchez look like a pub player after signing as one of the top players in the league?

It's Jose in a sanchez suit from the utd shop

Mr.Nice Guy

Deleted User wrote: »

Dalot?

Also what manager makes 100% good signings. If Billy and linderoff were mistakes then you are only compoundingbthe mistakes by insisting on going into the season with them, if Jose wasn't to be trusted with more money get in someone who was it's fairly ducking simple. Instead we went with the let's waste the season option

Yes Dalot, the young lad that was a few million less than compatriot Ricardo Pereira who has lit up the league since arriving.

If Bailly and Lindelof were mistakes, are the board not entitled to wonder why the man who wanted them is not using them and insisting that he can be trusted with his judgement on further signings?

I see it from both sides. He's entitled to feel upset he wasn't backed, but they're entitled to wonder why the guys he's signed have been deemed not good enough. Tonight he went with Smalling and Jones over his own signings.

~Rebel~

nullzero wrote: »

How can any manager get that defence playing?
Jose might have lost the dressing room but that doesn't excuse what we're seeing these players produce. They look like a defence that came up from the championship and have been caught out by the pace of the game.
We could get Pep over from city to take over from Jose and we'd still be crap, because we didn't address the problem in defence. Jose has a lot to answer for but so does Woodward, the real losers are the United fans. There is no managerial appointment that can be enough of a silver bullet to fix the problems we have. Alderweireld was conspicuously immense for Spurs tonight, ffs Woodward you git.

Hang on... this manager got this exact defence to only concede 28 league goals and the 2nd best defensive record last season. Only one more than City, and 8 less than the team who had the 3rd best record.

Everyone's talking about how atrocious this defense is, and how he's blameless because he wasn't allowed to replace them, but they were able to do it last year, so why not this?

I could understand a board balking at 70+ million for Harry f'king Maguire when several of the current CB's were signed by Jose anyway, and when they had previously maintained a solid record. If their heads are collectively gone, or if they're being played in different partnerships week in week out, whose fault is that?

Mitch Connor

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

Who signed Lindelof? Bailly? Dalot?

Guess city should have stick with bravo in goals. Liverpool should have stick with karius. Once you sign a position you stick with them no matter what.

limnam

~Rebel~ wrote: »

Hang on... this manager got this exact defence to only concede 28 league goals and the 2nd best defensive record last season. Only one more than City, and 8 less than the team who had the 3rd best record.

Everyone's talking about how atrocious this defense is, and how he's blameless because he wasn't allowed to replace them, but they were able to do it last year, so why not this?

Jose hurt their feelings.

Mitch Connor

~Rebel~ wrote: »

Hang on... this manager got this exact defence to only concede 28 league goals and the 2nd best defensive record last season. Only one more than City, and 8 less than the team who had the 3rd best record.

Everyone's talking about how atrocious this defense is, and how he's blameless because he wasn't allowed to replace them, but they were able to do it last year, so why not this?

I could understand a board balking at 70+ million for Harry f'king Maguire when several of the current CB's were signed by Jose anyway, and when they had previously maintained a solid record.

Cause we've not got as lucky and de gea hasn't performed miracles.

FFS, anyone who thinks we didn't give up stupid chances last year need their eyes tested.

Mitch Connor

rob316 wrote: »

If the defensive players are the problem and not the manager why is the attack non existent? Why does Sanchez look like a pub player after signing as one of the top players in the league?

BECAUSE THERE IS MORE THAN ONE FCKING THING WRONG AT THIS CLUB.

Harry Palmr

~Rebel~ wrote: »

Hang on... this manager got this exact defence to only concede 28 league goals and the 2nd best defensive record last season. Only one more than City, and 8 less than the team who had the 3rd best record.

Everyone's talking about how atrocious this defense is, and how he's blameless because he wasn't allowed to replace them, but they were able to do it last year, so why not this?

I could understand a board balking at 70+ million for Harry f'king Maguire when several of the current CB's were signed by Jose anyway, and when they had previously maintained a solid record.

They didn't do it last season - De Gea did. His XGyaddaproperllorhead type stats were ridiculous, the summer saw him have a bad World cup and he's not recovered so the shut outs which he orchestrated almost single handed no longer protect the defence - which was shoddy last season and is no better/worse this.

nullzero

~Rebel~ wrote: »

Hang on... this manager got this exact defence to only concede 28 league goals and the 2nd best defensive record last season. Only one more than City, and 8 less than the team who had the 3rd best record.

Everyone's talking about how atrocious this defense is, and how he's blameless because he wasn't allowed to replace them, but they were able to do it last year, so why not this?

That's something I can't explain. They are psychologically shot though, they've got the yips big time and we don't have to luxury of nursing them back to competence. They're going to get demolished every week, others sides can smell blood now. We nearly need a few 0-0's to steady the ship at this stage, everyone behind the ball, do not concede. We've just shipped 7 in three games, logic isn't applicable at this stage.

Ninthlife

limnam wrote: »

fck sake.

Fck sake..is he a Japanese manager?

Youve replied to several posts with the same text.

I was asking a question not on the basis that i think he should go but if you look at it logically there isnt anyone really out there available even if he did go.

To the people saying sack him im wondering who would replace him

limnam

Ninthlife wrote: »

Fck sake..is he a Japanese manager?

Youve replied to several posts with the same text.

I was asking a question not on the basis that i think he should go but if you look at it logically there isnt anyone really out there available even if he did go.

To the people saying sack him im wondering who would replace him

Because we go through the list every fcking week!

Mr.Nice Guy

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Guess city should have stick with bravo in goals. Liverpool should have stick with karius. Once you sign a position you stick with them no matter what.

Nah man, you just keep giving a blank cheque to a guy who doesn't trust his own signings a year later. That definitely won't end in tears.

Mr.Nice Guy

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

Yes Dalot, the young lad that was a few million less than compatriot Ricardo Pereira who has lit up the league since arriving.

If Bailly and Lindelof were mistakes, are the board not entitled to wonder why the man who wanted them is not using them and insisting that he can be trusted with his judgement on further signings?

I see it from both sides. He's entitled to feel upset he wasn't backed, but they're entitled to wonder why the guys he's signed have been deemed not good enough. Tonight he went with Smalling and Jones over his own signings.

If you have lost trust in the manager to sign players then its too late time to move on then surely?

pjohnson

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Guess city should have stick with bravo in goals. Liverpool should have stick with karius. Once you sign a position you stick with them no matter what.

Yep. New policy it seems. Only get one chance to sign per position.

chicorytip

PhlegmyMoses wrote:

They have been making mistakes like that under 4 managers.....

The departure of Rui Faria may be significant. Mourinho's long time assistant who, presumably, had chief responsibility for implementing tactics and organisation on the training ground. As far as I know he has not yet found alternative employment. Maybe Jose should give him a call.

~Rebel~

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

Rodgers is an unequivocally worse manager than Mourinho. Mother of Jaysus. I guess this thread will be trolled for the next few days and nowt will be done about it as per

He's absolutely a worse manager when looked at in a vacuum, but is he worse than the current "shroud of negativity/spite/bitterness" version of Jose? Hard to know. It's almost certain that - pound for pound - whoever replaces Jose will have an inferior record overall, so it's kind of pointless. He's not going to get sacked for what he can do at his peak, he's going to get sacked for what he does when he's at a low ebb.

And I'm not fkin trolling - I said he's not good enough for what you aspire to, and that you'd hate him on principle, but he's a manager who has done well previous in the league, has progressed since leaving, plays good attacking football, and might be available. A few games into a season, very very few managers of any quality are around.

Mitch Connor

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

Nah man, you just keep giving a blank cheque to a guy who doesn't trust his own signings a year later. That definitely won't end in tears.

Bravo.

Karius.

Two signings replaced a year later with record buys.

nullzero

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Bravo.

Karius.

Two signings replaced a year later with record buys.

Yeah but you're forgetting how much these people hate United, don't be using your logic around here.

Royal Legend

~Rebel~ wrote: »

Really doubt Jose will be going for at least another 6 or 7 league games, regardless what happens. Has to at least be given 1/4 of the season.

Only Zidane is available of the proper caliber, and I doubt he'd take it. Otherwise... Rodgers has been complaining about the board at celtic a bit, could probably get him. Though I'm sure Utd fans would hate it. Far from ideal for what Utd aspire to, but I daresay he might do better than a lot of the other options that might be considered.

If Rodgers went to United he would need a lot more than three envelopes :cool:

Andrew Beef

Bit a shocker for Drumpot and his son!

At least he’ll be able to charge his phone...

Mr.Nice Guy

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

Nah man, you just keep giving a blank cheque to a guy who doesn't trust his own signings a year later. That definitely won't end in tears.

No you trust the manager you gave a new contract yo a few months previous or you move on somewhere else, you don't just hope the problems someone magic themselves away

Lord TSC

beno619 wrote: »

That Mourinho is on his way out. You've dressed up this opinion in so many different ways.

Because I don't see a road currently that doesn't end that way.

Feels,like the only way he keeps his job is if the board do the same as Moyes and LVG and basically dawdles their way through the season. The board told him to do one in the summer with his transfer targets, and now the miserable start on top of it? Players briefing they are waiting for him to be sacked. How do you not think he is on the way out now?

~Rebel~

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Bravo.

Karius.

Two signings replaced a year later with record buys.

* Two years later.

Ninthlife

limnam wrote: »

Because we go through the list every fcking week!

I missed those lists lately by being a casual poster and avoiding the thread..

Carry on so

daingeanrob

How Soon Is Now wrote: »

You would love to see how some of these players would of performed under Ferguson.

this! ferguson would have these players playing in a coherent manner.

niallo27

nullzero wrote: »

OH no we're not...

That was excellent in fairness.

Andrew Beef

Talk of Rodgers is largely trolling by Liverpool fans.

It’s vital that we stick together.

Fergie would have been sacked in those first four years if it was now.

Mr.Nice Guy

Deleted User wrote: »

If you have lost trust in the manager to sign players then its too late time to move on then surely?

As Neville said last week, they should have figured out in the summer whether they were going to back him or not and if not, then the relationship should have been terminated. Instead they did neither one nor the other and so we're stuck with a manager that hasn't got the signings he wants, nor backing from the club hierarchy.

Mitch Connor wrote:

Bravo.

Karius.

Two signings replaced a year later with record buys.

Try using a more honest analogy involving central defenders and rival clubs.

limnam

niallo27 wrote: »

That was excellent in fairness.

Jaysus, Niallo, your back the CL final lost must have been tough. You've been very quiet.


Why can't you come up with stuff like that?

nullzero

niallo27 wrote: »

That was excellent in fairness.

Us United fans have needed a sense of humor over the last few years, I hear Pool fans are hilarious.

Mitch Connor

~Rebel~ wrote: »

* Two years later.

Cool.

Bailly is in his third season so beats that cut off too.

~Rebel~

Andrew Beef wrote: »

Talk of Rodgers is largely trolling by Liverpool fans.

It’s vital that we stick together.

Fergie would have been sacked in those first four years if it was now.

I hate this "dismiss a thought because its a liverpool fan" nonsense. I'm not one for trolling. I laid out the negatives of him in my own original post, i'm not saying he'd be a world beater, but of people that might be available, I think he'd be better than some people will give him credit for. Especially on a 1 season contract - which I think he'd have the ego to take on.

And, as I said, I don't expect Jose to get sacked for at least another 6 or 7 league games regardless.

And you're right, Fergie would have been sacked in his first four years if it was now... the game is different, there's infinitely more money involved, the stakes are so much higher, and the team performance is the longterm backbone of what is essentially a multi billion pound business. It sucks, but it's a reality.

Harry Palmr

It would be seen as less than polite to Arsenal but Wenger might be getting itchy zipper fingers.

JaMarcus

This isn't José vs Woodward and this isn't José vs the players. We don't have to exclusively assign this large portion of blame to one party. There's enough of it to go around.

It's not a big mystery what's wrong with the club. Tbh, it was more of a mystery how his Chelsea side went from winning the league to playing so poorly that José was sacked.

If you look at each potential culprit to our current predicament, you'll see what the problems are.

Ed Woodward & The Board
The big problem here is that the board didn't trust José with the defensive signings he wanted. And you know, I don't actually blame them. Mkhitaryan was a failure. Pogba has been a failure. Sanchez has been a failure. Lukaku, in my eyes, has been more failure than success given the amount paid for him as he just technically isn't good enough for a team that wants to win titles. Bailly has been hugely inconsistent, and for his fee has to be classed as a failure. Lindelof has been terrible too. Those are players for whom big fees were paid by the manager, so I don't blame the board for not backing him with more transfers.

But the board's big crime here is the simple "back him or sack him" argument. So we're in a situation where we've given our manager a contract extension but don't trust him to sign any more players? That is a poisonous, poisonous setup and my amateur business head can't see the logic in it.

Mourinho
I'm just after watching Mourinho lose it in his press conferences, shouting at a reporter that he has won more Premier Leagues than all the other 19 managers put together. That is true, but completely irrelevant and it makes me think he's somewhat losing the plot. The argument has never been about his past - the argument is about his present. I could be wrong, but Mourinho has faced scrutiny many times in his career and I don't remember a time when he has turned things around. So yes, he has a track record of winning leagues, but he also has a track record of imploding spectacularly and the fans and press have a right to bring this up/question the current predicament.

As far as tactics goes, the team plays with a horrendously slow tempo most of the time. The first half tonight was refreshing because we actually had something of an attacking pulse for the first time in a long time. I can just about live with the negative setups when we're grinding out decent-to-good results against City, Liverpool, Spurs etc. but we need to be more authoritative against the lesser teams and he fails to set the team up correctly for these.

As mentioned above, his transfers have been well below par when you consider the fees involved. And his man management seems to be shadier and more cynical than ever before. In 2 years, he's had issuess with Shaw, Martial and Pogba which has resulted in inconsistent team selections and huge dips in form from the players involved (though they are responsible for this also).

Lower down the scale for Mourinho in his insistence that we do not need any more right sided attackers when it appears to be a massive problem for us.

Players
There's no excusing the players in this either. Our defense has been a catalogue of high profile errors from all involved (Bailly, Lindelof, Jones and Smalling have all been guilty). It's not José/Woodward's fault that Jones stumbles around the pitch and makes wreckless decisions. It's not their fault the Lindelof's positioning has been abysmal. It's not their fault that Chris Smalling is terrified to play a forward pass.

Likewise, I refuse to believe that José is telling Valencia to smack the ball into defender's shins (it's a joke we all make in here, but it's true). Nor is he telling him to turn/play backwards in attacking positions. These are just limitations of Valencia as a player.

Pogba's performances for United have been criminal. He's the ultimate fair-weather player in my eyes. Lording it up for France surrounded by elite midfielders with an elite defence to protect him. We don't have the luxuries that France and Juventus have/had, and it badly exposes Pogba. He's a massively over-rated player who believes his own hype (this is evident to me in his refusal to do the simple things, and trying to overdo it).

Lukaku is not an elite striker. Poor touch, not clinical enough, and somewhat clumsy on the ball. He's good, but wouldn't start for any of the other top 10-15 clubs in the world.

With Sanchez, I don't know what the problem is. Perhaps he just doesn't have the pace he once had. But he's been our worst player since January.

Then we have a bunch of players in Fellaini, Young, Herrera, Mata, Lingard etc. who get far more minutes for us than they would for almost any other big club. They are functional players, some of them good squad depth due to their versatility, but we really on them too much and too regularly.

---

TL;DR - huge issues at every level, from board to manager to players. It's an ugly mess and an ugly squad and it's not going to be an overnight fix. A new manager might get the players playing with some confidence, but I don't see the current squad ever challenging for a title.

Royal Legend

JaMarcus wrote: »

This isn't José vs Woodward and this isn't José vs the players. We don't have to exclusively assign this large portion of blame to one party. There's enough of it to go around.

It's not a big mystery what's wrong with the club. Tbh, it was more of a mystery how his Chelsea side went from winning the league to playing so poorly that José was sacked.

If you look at each potential culprit to our current predicament, you'll see what the problems are.

Ed Woodward & The Board
The big problem here is that the board didn't trust José with the defensive signings he wanted. And you know, I don't actually blame them. Mkhitaryan was a failure. Pogba has been a failure. Sanchez has been a failure. Lukaku, in my eyes, has been more failure than success given the amount paid for him as he just technically isn't good enough for a team that wants to win titles. Bailly has been hugely inconsistent, and for his fee has to be classed as a failure. Lindelof has been terrible too. Those are players for whom big fees were paid by the manager, so I don't blame the board for not backing him with more transfers.

But the board's big crime here is the simple "back him or sack him" argument. So we're in a situation where we've given our manager a contract extension but don't trust him to sign any more players? That is a poisonous, poisonous setup and my amateur business head can't see the logic in it.

Mourinho
I'm just after watching Mourinho lose it in his press conferences, shouting at a reporter that he has won more Premier Leagues than all the other 19 managers put together. That is true, but completely irrelevant and it makes me think he's somewhat losing the plot. The argument has never been about his past - the argument is about his present. I could be wrong, but Mourinho has faced scrutiny many times in his career and I don't remember a time when he has turned things around. So yes, he has a track record of winning leagues, but he also has a track record of imploding spectacularly and the fans and press have a right to bring this up/question the current predicament.

As far as tactics goes, the team plays with a horrendously slow tempo most of the time. The first half tonight was refreshing because we actually had something of an attacking pulse for the first time in a long time. I can just about live with the negative setups when we're grinding out decent-to-good results against City, Liverpool, Spurs etc. but we need to be more authoritative against the lesser teams and he fails to set the team up correctly for these.

As mentioned above, his transfers have been well below par when you consider the fees involved. And his man management seems to be shadier and more cynical than ever before. In 2 years, he's had issuess with Shaw, Martial and Pogba which has resulted in inconsistent team selections and huge dips in form from the players involved (though they are responsible for this also).

Lower down the scale for Mourinho in his insistence that we do not need any more right sided attackers when it appears to be a massive problem for us.

Players
There's no excusing the players in this either. Our defense has been a catalogue of high profile errors from all involved (Bailly, Lindelof, Jones and Smalling have all been guilty). It's not José/Woodward's fault that Jones stumbles around the pitch and makes wreckless decisions. It's not their fault the Lindelof's positioning has been abysmal. It's not their fault that Chris Smalling is terrified to play a forward pass.

Likewise, I refuse to believe that José is telling Valencia to smack the ball into defender's shins (it's a joke we all make in here, but it's true). Nor is he telling him to turn/play backwards in attacking positions. These are just limitations of Valencia as a player.

Pogba's performances for United have been criminal. He's the ultimate fair-weather player in my eyes. Lording it up for France surrounded by elite midfielders with an elite defence to protect him. We don't have the luxuries that France and Juventus have/had, and it badly exposes Pogba. He's a massively over-rated player who believes his own hype (this is evident to me in his refusal to do the simple things, and trying to overdo it).

Lukaku is not an elite striker. Poor touch, not clinical enough, and somewhat clumsy on the ball. He's good, but wouldn't start for any of the other top 10-15 clubs in the world.

With Sanchez, I don't know what the problem is. Perhaps he just doesn't have the pace he once had. But he's been our worst player since January.

Then we have a bunch of players in Fellaini, Young, Herrera, Mata, Lingard etc. who get far more minutes for us than they would for almost any other big club. They are functional players, some of them good squad depth due to their versatility, but we really on them too much and too regularly.

---

TL;DR - huge issues at every level, from board to manager to players. It's an ugly mess and an ugly squad and it's not going to be an overnight fix. A new manager might get the players playing with some confidence, but I don't see the current squad ever challenging for a title.

Fair play, you put some effort into typing that, but I am too lazy to even try reading it.

Jose Out - Rodgers in

limnam

JaMarcus wrote: »

Tbh, it was more of a mystery how his Chelsea side went from winning the league to playing so poorly that José was sacked.

Thought it was as simple as they were all banging the doctor.