Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2018/2019 [Mod note 31-Aug-18]

fatherted1969

Just on Mourinho. I can't see how after throwing Shaw under the bus not so long ago and basically ridiculing him for his positional play that anyone could see what he did going up to him after the game was simply playing to the cameras.

Cannot stand the circus he brings to the club

Mitch Connor

fatherted1969 wrote: »

Just on Mourinho. I can't see how after throwing Shaw under the bus not so long ago and basically ridiculing him for his positional play that anyone could see what he did going up to him after the game was simply playing to the cameras.

Cannot stand the circus he brings to the club

Throughout the game he was consistently encouraging Shaw.

Shaw had a very good game, and the manager recognised it. Shaw was one of the only positive aspects of last night, and the manager recognised it. You could see Shaw was disappointed at full time, and the manager went to encourage him for his own performance.

I think there are plenty of things to be critical of without seeing things where they don't, imo, exist.

pjohnson

tigger123 wrote: »

As a Chelsea fan I'm all too familiar with this (... the arguments between fans).

The first thing it I thought when I saw the footage from the press conference last night is 'He's looking to get sacked'.

If Utd wanted to play attacking football, Mou is the wrong guy.

If Utd want the play attacking football we have the wrong defence.

prettyboy81

If United want to play attacking football you have the wrong striker in Lukaku.

beno619

fatherted1969 wrote: »

Just on Mourinho. I can't see how after throwing Shaw under the bus not so long ago and basically ridiculing him for his positional play that anyone could see what he did going up to him after the game was simply playing to the cameras.

Cannot stand the circus he brings to the club

Logged in to praise Shaws performance.

So positive on the ball and took Spurs players on at every opportunity. Might question his role in the second goal but it really was a fantastic performance.

Shaw plays crap Mourinho is critical, Shaw plays good he gets the managers praise, I dont see a problem here ?

He was clapping Shaw on throughout the match and also also singled him out for praise after Brighton so no he wasnt playing to the camera's.

Mitch Connor

pjohnson wrote: »

If Utd want the play attacking football we have the wrong defence.

I don't know, maybe manager number 4 will get top class performances out of them. I could simply be down to poor management.

What I would say in their defence though, is that I think they would be starters for half the league at least, and half the league at least don't defend as badly as we do. There is something beyond a lack of world class talent that is the issue. Confidence, lack of leadership, lack of organisation. If we had a proper leader, screaming instruction and organising the back line would we see a difference in at least some aspect of our defending - I believe so. I think VVD has made a big impact on the Liverpool defence by bringing leadership to it, and that is what we lack (as well as VVD being better than any of our lot).

I think Jose was trying to somewhat address that this summer with his desire to sign Toby A. Would it have solved all out problems, probably not. Would it have seen an improvement? I believe so.

MaceFace

Does anyone know what Utd want?

Liam O

fatherted1969 wrote: »

Just on Mourinho. I can't see how after throwing Shaw under the bus not so long ago and basically ridiculing him for his positional play that anyone could see what he did going up to him after the game was simply playing to the cameras.

Cannot stand the circus he brings to the club

Seems to have hardened Shaw up somewhat no?

If only the rest of the pampered wimps with no backbone would respond in the same way...

threein99

https://twitter.com/beINSPORTS/status/1034184581199450113?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet


Andy Gray brought some comic relief to proceedings

fyfe79

Lord TSC wrote: »

If you only see two Pool fans, and think any of it is genuine, I've got some magic beans you might be interested in....

Fair enough, just went back a bit further through the thread and saw niallo and Rebel in here as well. It sure was busy.

Mitch Connor

MaceFace wrote: »

Does anyone know what Utd want?

Money.

Most in for least out.

fatherted1969

Shaw was the best player we had but this crack from Mourinho smacks of just playing to the camera

adox

astradave wrote: »

Meh his feet stayed on the ground, for an “all action” centre back he should be challenging for that header. But yeah was an unreal finish, some placement on it

It was brutal defending. He had him for th corner and then totally lost him. Kans barely moved to lose him. Schoolboy stuff.

Jones was horrendous the whole game. Absolutely horrendous.
Smalling was poor for the third goal but play well apart from that and held things together s lot at the back.

Mitch Connor

adox wrote: »

It was brutal defending. He had him for th corner and then totally lost him. Kans barely moved to lose him. Schoolboy stuff.

Jones was horrendous the whole game. Absolutely horrendous.
Smalling was poor for the third goal but play well apart from that and held things together s lot at the back.

I thought the positioning and tracking from all the CBs was poor last night, and we were lucky not to concede more. Spurs could easily have had a few in the first have. Its was scramble defending way too often imo

adox

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Throughout the game he was consistently encouraging Shaw.

Shaw had a very good game, and the manager recognised it. Shaw was one of the only positive aspects of last night, and the manager recognised it. You could see Shaw was disappointed at full time, and the manager went to encourage him for his own performance.

I think there are plenty of things to be critical of without seeing things where they don't, imo, exist.

100% this.

Jose’s a goner imo but I dont think this was anything but genuine.

IamtheWalrus

Can we leave the Liverpool troll talk to the mods? It's boring and off-topic.

adox

Mitch Connor wrote: »

I thought the positioning and tracking from all the CBs was poor last night, and we were lucky not to concede more. Spurs could easily have had a few in the first have. Its was scramble defending way too often imo

I still think that the midfield contributes hugely to Utds defensive problems. Not that we don’t have problems at the back but they are left exposed a lot with Mfs not tracking their runners etc.

Anyway I dint buy that all this negative football is because the manager doesn’t trust the defense. It’s more than defensive football that’s been the problem. The absolute lack of tempo on and off the ball. The application from the players. The constant disjointed looking attack etc etc.

Your Airbag

https://twitter.com/dats/status/1034168960260997120


Yikes, Lukaku practicing shooting before the game :pac:

Sebastian Dangerfield

He fills me with worry watching him sometimes, but I'd throw Rojo in as soon as he's fit. He's a terrible LB but I don't think he's all that bad a CB, compared to what else is there. He seems to at least have plenty of self belief, and is comfortable on the left side.

tigger123

pjohnson wrote: »

If Utd want the play attacking football we have the wrong defence.

But isn't that down to him though? I can't help but feel a better manager could do more with that squad.

yourdeadwright

I know United have a lot of problems in Defence, but does it not worry the fans that Big Rom never scores in  games,
He just isn't the superstar striker United need, Every top side need a clinical striker and he just isn't that,
I know its hard to knock him because he does score goals but its the big games that count at top clubs and he never seems to do it, Seems to be a mental thing with him

IITYWYBMAD

yourdeadwright wrote: »

I know United have a lot of problems in Defence, but does it not worry the fans that Big Rom never scores in  games,
He just isn't the superstar striker United need, Every top side need a clinical striker and he just isn't that,
I know its hard to knock him because he does score goals but its the big games that count at top clubs and he never seems to do it, Seems to be a mental thing with him

He needs a Martial or a Sanchez or Lingard to perform well, if he's to flourish. I'd say his confidence is shot at the moment, and it's showing in his performances.

Mitch Connor

yourdeadwright wrote: »

I know United have a lot of problems in Defence, but does it not worry the fans that Big Rom never scores in  games,
He just isn't the superstar striker United need, Every top side need a clinical striker and he just isn't that,
I know its hard to knock him because he does score goals but its the big games that count at top clubs and he never seems to do it, Seems to be a mental thing with him

I don't believe there is another striker we could buy that would be better than him.

Hard for a striker to score when chances aren't created.

Terrible miss last night - but that came from a defensive mistake rather than any creation on our side.

He gets F all chances at United, we create so little, and I don't think that is on him to be honest. Kane's miss at the far post last night was as bad as Lukaku's imo. It happens. The trick is to create enough chances that your striker has the chances to score more goals.

Are there more clinical players around? Yeah. Could we buy any of them? Nope, not imo. We aren't getting Messi. We aren't getting Ronaldo. We aren't getting Kane. We aren't getting Aguero.

Zeek12

ericzeking wrote: »

Alternative opinion...the Kane goal is a worldy header and Jones hasn't done alot wrong, he's way out and moving away from goal. It's a cracking piece of individual brilliance.

The last goal is the only one I would describe as very poor or shambolic defending.

Ah now.

Was it a good header? Yes

But should a centre back playing for United lose his man so easily at a set piece?
Absolutely not.

58 minutes last night pretty much gave us a clear synopsis of the Old Trafford career of Phil Jones.

He'll look pretty Ok for spells of the game, but when pressed against the better forwards, he is found wanting.

And then he departs the scene 5 minutes later with yet another injury.

With another possibly lengthy absence on the sidelines in store.

bangkok

Lukaku is a very good striker but imo he is a bit like giroud, will score plenty of goals but not good enough to score the goals that will win league titles

TitianGerm

Your Airbag wrote: »

https://twitter.com/dats/status/1034168960260997120


Yikes, Lukaku practicing shooting before the game :pac:

Yes he missed during the game but people shouldn't be highlighting errors in a warm-up. Same **** was done to Karius.

Support the player. He's been very good since he joined.

Mitch Connor

bangkok wrote: »

Lukaku is a very good striker but imo he is a bit like giroud, will score plenty of goals but not good enough to score the goals that will win league titles

In a team that doesn't have any other goalscorers scoring goals, or creating any chances, yep - you are probably correct.

In a team that can create chances and the burden of goals is shared a bit, I 100% he can be a league winning striker.

We rely on him to take the 1 proper chance a match he gets - and he isn't doing it. That miss last night was shocking, no debate there, and he has been poor in the opening three games but in general I don't think there are strikers that will do any better in this United side over the long term. We don't create, we don't support.

5starpool

nullzero wrote: »

They've been crap by not this crap.

Arsenal won their first away game of 2018 on the last day of the season. That is more crap.

Cookiemunster

The clubs been briefing journos.

https://twitter.com/sistoney67/status/1034367041078276096

https://twitter.com/JamieJackson___/status/1034366939789975552

DM_7

Well done Luke Shaw, brilliant attitude to the end. I hope he keeps it going and the wing back role suits him so is a new option for the team.

United should have taken the lead. Big miss from Lukaku. He came back too soon from the World Cup imo.

I hope Pogba has the same reason for another poor game.

Bad loss overall but I don't mind so much as Brigjton or last years Brighton (Seville) as the attitude was right at the start. Obvious mental failings when they conceded and the response was terrible, nothing new there.

Felt bad for Smalling on third goal, caught up field with a good player running at him is his worst nightmare.

Your Airbag

TitianGerm wrote: »

Yes he missed during the game but people shouldn't be highlighting errors in a warm-up. Same **** was done to Karius.

Support the player. He's been very good since he joined.

Who doesn't support him? It was lighthearted hence the emoji, I'm a fan of the guy and think he could do well in a team that preforms better. Relax

fatherted1969

adox wrote: »

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Throughout the game he was consistently encouraging Shaw.

Shaw had a very good game, and the manager recognised it. Shaw was one of the only positive aspects of last night, and the manager recognised it. You could see Shaw was disappointed at full time, and the manager went to encourage him for his own performance.

I think there are plenty of things to be critical of without seeing things where they don't, imo, exist.

100% this.

Jose’s a goner imo but I dont think this was anything but genuine.

Fair enough, maybe I'm just gone very cynical about the way he conducts himself lately

Hidalgo

Sorry if this has been discussed, I haven't seen it reading back through the thread.

What exactly is the setup regarding transfers in.
Is there a committee or does Woodward have a large say??
If it's Woodward then a change of structure is required, he's a good money man (which is crucial) but not football.
Ita been a real scattergun approach even prior to Mourinho, chasing what appeared to be unrealistic targets like Kroos & Bale instead of concentrating on gettable improvements.
Add in this summer & no new defenders in
A commanding presence would make a massive difference, a la a John Terry, Vincent Company in their prime for organisation & talking teammates through games

Your Airbag

Cookiemunster wrote: »

The clubs been briefing journos.

https://twitter.com/sistoney67/status/1034367041078276096

https://twitter.com/JamieJackson___/status/1034366939789975552

The board support Jose to turn this around according to the first tweet. He may do but a genuine question is has Jose ever had a history of turning it around?


Besides his Porto days he's always been at a top club and iirc there or there abouts in the league. His last season at Chelsea he failed to turn it around. Can he actually manage a situation like this effectively is what we should be asking. Its a situation not so familiar to him as his worst seaosn with Chelsea he was gone pretty early

pjohnson

fatherted1969 wrote: »

Fair enough, maybe I'm just gone very cynical about the way he conducts himself lately

Nah. Hes giving Shaw the accolade he deserves. It would have been easy for Shaw to sulk and have a strop (a la Martial) and beg to leave but the lad has knuckled down to prove himself. Fair fcuks to him. I didn't expect him to turn his career around here. Hopefully he stays injury free for about 20 games or so to really stamp down his starting berth.

yourdeadwright

Mitch Connor wrote: »

yourdeadwright wrote: »

I know United have a lot of problems in Defence, but does it not worry the fans that Big Rom never scores in  games,
He just isn't the superstar striker United need, Every top side need a clinical striker and he just isn't that,
I know its hard to knock him because he does score goals but its the big games that count at top clubs and he never seems to do it, Seems to be a mental thing with him

I don't believe there is another striker we could buy that would be better than him.

Hard for a striker to score when chances aren't created.

Terrible miss last night - but that came from a defensive mistake rather than any creation on our side.

He gets F all chances at United, we create so little, and I don't think that is on him to be honest. Kane's miss at the far post last night was as bad as Lukaku's imo. It happens. The trick is to create enough chances that your striker has the chances to score more goals.

Are there more clinical players around? Yeah. Could we buy any of them? Nope, not imo. We aren't getting Messi. We aren't getting Ronaldo. We aren't getting Kane. We aren't getting Aguero.

But for the whole of last season he missed his big chances against the top teams, its not like last night was a one off,
He rarely ever scores if he just has one chance, when the likes of Kane look for just one chance sure he missed one last night but the fact everyone was surprised he missed it and I don't think anyone was surprised Rom missed say's it all really
Surely United can still attract a top striker,
If he scores last night United are 1 up and the whole tide changes and confidence is given to the whole team and Spurs think here we go again losing at Old Trafford, It was a huge moment,

TitianGerm

Your Airbag wrote: »

Who doesn't support him? It was lighthearted hence the emoji, I'm a fan of the guy and think he could do well in a team that preforms better. Relax

Not saying your not but I can guarantee there'll be morons using that clip as a stick to beat him.

yourdeadwright

DM_7 wrote: »

Well done Luke Shaw, brilliant attitude to the end. I hope he keeps it going and the wing back role suits him so is a new option for the team.

United should have taken the lead. Big miss from Lukaku. He came back too soon from the World Cup imo.

I hope Pogba has the same reason for another poor game.

Bad loss overall but I don't mind so much as Brigjton or last years Brighton (Seville) as the attitude was right at the start. Obvious mental failings when they conceded and the response was terrible, nothing new there.

Felt bad for Smalling on third goal, caught up field with a good player running at him is his worst nightmare.

I think your first line sums up United at the moment, praising Shaw for having the right attitude, In years gone by it wasn't even a question about a players attitude,
Roy Keane who once said he was embarrassed and disgusted when Fergie in his book credited him for having the right attitude when he received a yellow card agents Juve that ruled him out of the champions league final ,
Roys take was having the right attitude is something that any footballer should have no question and isn't something to be proud off , Its a given if your paid to play football

Ordinary man

The lack of confidence and belief in themselves by the players is shocking. As soon as they went 1 down the heads dropped. Even when they were all over spurs in the first half there was a nervousness with lots of bad touches, passes and shooting.

Bar shaw there isn't 1 other player playing to a fraction of their potential and I can't see mourinho as the man to change it

LuckyLloyd

Lord TSC wrote: »

If you only see two Pool fans, and think any of it is genuine, I've got some magic beans you might be interested in....

Rebel is most certainly a genuine poster. I don't personally rate Rodgers, but I don't personally rate Jose Mourinho beyond his third year in a job. It's obviously too early to tell for sure, but if this is a rerun of Chelsea 2015 then the conversation needs to forget who Jose Mourinho was or is supposed to be and assess him on the correct merits. Once you do that, the range of names who would be better options increases quite significantly.

As I posted here last week, if this is a rerun of 2015 it will be confirmed relatively quickly, and the conversation will be able to move on to more appropriate footing at that point. Chelsea fans were incredibly patient throughout the first couple of months of the 2015 season too don't forget, but once he loses the dressing room and his ability to think clearly he'll be a dead man walking as Utd manager.

DM_7

yourdeadwright wrote: »

I think your first line sums up United at the moment, praising Shaw for having the right attitude, In years gone by it wasn't even a question about a players attitude,
Roy Keane who once said he was embarrassed and disgusted when Fergie in his book credited him for having the right attitude when he received a yellow card agents Juve that ruled him out of the champions league final ,
Roys take was having the right attitude is something that any footballer should have no question and isn't something to be proud off , Its a given if your paid to play football

I agree United don't have enough strength in that way.

I just think Shaw deserves some credit in his own right, same as he deserved to be questioned earlier. SAF had his fair share of players who needed tine, some never caught up like Anderson so it is not like everything was perfect in the past.

rob316

Hidalgo wrote: »

Sorry if this has been discussed, I haven't seen it reading back through the thread.

What exactly is the setup regarding transfers in.
Is there a committee or does Woodward have a large say??
If it's Woodward then a change of structure is required, he's a good money man (which is crucial) but not football.
Ita been a real scattergun approach even prior to Mourinho, chasing what appeared to be unrealistic targets like Kroos & Bale instead of concentrating on gettable improvements.
Add in this summer & no new defenders in
A commanding presence would make a massive difference, a la a John Terry, Vincent Company in their prime for organisation & talking teammates through games

Goes back to no strategy on footballing matters. That leak to the press that they would of bought varane if he was available was hilarious.

Be ambitious but realistic at the same time.

yourdeadwright

DM_7 wrote: »

yourdeadwright wrote: »

I think your first line sums up United at the moment, praising Shaw for having the right attitude, In years gone by it wasn't even a question about a players attitude,
Roy Keane who once said he was embarrassed and disgusted when Fergie in his book credited him for having the right attitude when he received a yellow card agents Juve that ruled him out of the champions league final ,
Roys take was having the right attitude is something that any footballer should have no question and isn't something to be proud off , Its a given if your paid to play football

I agree United don't have enough strength in that way.

I just think Shaw deserves some credit in his own right, same as he deserved to be questioned earlier. SAF had his fair share of players who needed tine, some never caught up like Anderson so it is not like everything was perfect in the past.

Praise for Shaw should be given if he has a good game like anyone else, say well done well played,
But praise for attitude of a professional footballer is a bit condescending ,
I get it if someone is praising a seasoned pro who's attitude has effected a team and younger players over the course of his playing days, but to praise a guy for doing what he is paid for and what everyone else has been doing the last 3 years is a bit much it should be a given this isn't Sunday league ,

pjohnson

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Praise for Shaw should be given if he has a good game like anyone else, say well done well played,
But praise for attitude of a professional footballer is a bit condescending ,
I get it if someone is praising a seasoned pro who's attitude has effected a team and younger players over the course of his playing days, but to praise a guy for doing what he is paid for and what everyone else has been doing the last 3 years is a bit much it should be a given this isn't Sunday league ,

If only this bit was true.

Liam O

pjohnson wrote: »

If only this bit was true.

Ah no I mean there's Fellaini, Lingard and...oh wait.

yourdeadwright

Liam O wrote: »

pjohnson wrote: »

If only this bit was true.

Ah no I mean there's Fellaini, Lingard and...oh wait.

To be fair Lakaku and Alexis (since he joined) and Rashord and Mata and Herrera and Young off the top off my head always pout in a shift, Even Valencia
They may not always play well but there guys who always have the right attitude

Your Airbag

Your Airbag wrote: »

The board support Jose to turn this around according to the first tweet. He may do but a genuine question is has Jose ever had a history of turning it around?


Besides his Porto days he's always been at a top club and iirc there or there abouts in the league. His last season at Chelsea he failed to turn it around. Can he actually manage a situation like this effectively is what we should be asking. Its a situation not so familiar to him as his worst seaosn with Chelsea he was gone pretty early

I wouldnt say its similar to the chelsea situtaion just yet the players still tried for him last night at Chelsea they nearly all gave up on him, if the players still put in the effort it will turn but its hard to know if thats the case

yabadabado

It's a very strange set up at the club.
They gave Jose a new contract only a few months ago and at that stage the board surely knew what he wanted to do in the transfer window.
By all accounts Jose and Ed didn't agree on targets so the positions that are crying out for new players weren't sorted.
If you give a manager a new contract, it makes sense to then back him with what he wants .

I dont think Jose will be going anywhere for at least a few months but its not going to be easy to replace him.Very few good candidatesout there

DM_7

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Praise for Shaw should be given if he has a good game like anyone else, say well done well played,
But praise for attitude of a professional footballer is a bit condescending ,
I get it if someone is praising a seasoned pro who's attitude has effected a team and younger players over the course of his playing days, but to praise a guy for doing what he is paid for and what everyone else has been doing the last 3 years is a bit much it should be a given this isn't Sunday league ,

That makes no sense to me, in an ideal world yes but on balance, by looking at his history he did not have the strength earlier. He needs time to grow into a strong character.

As we saw with Danny Rose, this is not a world of robots, not all players are the same and the game can have serious mental negatives for people.

Shaw had to overcome a bad injury, a vig price tag, managers publibly slate him, fans giving him a hard time etc. All as a young man, all at one of the biggest clubs with the most scrutiny on everything they do.

Shaw may not coninue to have the positive atttude, this may be the exception rather than the rule but a sign of growth is worthy of praise imo.

chicorytip

yourdeadwright wrote:

But for the whole of last season he missed his big chances against the top teams, its not like last night was a one off, He rarely ever scores if he just has one chance, when the likes of Kane look for just one chance sure he missed one last night but the fact everyone was surprised he missed it and I don't think anyone was surprised Rom missed say's it all really Surely United can still attract a top striker, If he scores last night United are 1 up and the whole tide changes and confidence is given to the whole team and Spurs think here we go again losing at Old Trafford, It was a huge moment,

Martial is a top quality striker but he's not Jose's man. He was signed by Van Gaal. That's the one and only reason he is not first choice every week. Lukaku is Jose's man. Those players signed by Van Gaal and those who were already at the club when he joined and played regularly under him are now being sidelined and will eventually be sold.