Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2018/2019 [Mod note 31-Aug-18]

LuckyLloyd

Deleted User wrote: »

Well if that was some how the case it makes the decision to give him a contract a few months previous even more bizzare and shows the club at the very top haven't a clue what they are doing from a footballing perspective

That is inarguable. Surely you would have an early draft of his transfer strategy anyway, the areas he wants to strengthen and a long list of targets? Which then moves you onto an alternative scenario: they were going after some of his targets but were incompetent in their negotiating approach and failed to adjust for the restricted timeline of the window and simply ****ed it up?

In either scenario the board come across poorly. And in every possible scenario regarding transfers, there are still things to criticize the manager over regarding player relations; strike rate of previous acquisitions; tactical cohesion and general approach. And this was supposed to be the safe short term management option, who never failed to deliver at least a league before in a previous job.

I don't have the answer to all of these questions, I doubt anyone does. But it's a grim outlook today - beyond anything a couple of wins could do to really improve.

Sebastian Dangerfield

I dont understand the argument that United shouldnt have backed Mourinho because theyd already given him 2 CBs. Is there a manager out there with a 100% success rate sith transfers? Players can not settle, be injured, or just not be as good as close quarters as your scouts said they were. Better to admit theyre not up to it, replace them and move them on if thats the conclusion

DARK-KNIGHT

https://www.instagram.com/p/BnBgJsIjDie/?utm_source=ig_share_sheet&igshid=v3dqevydwiti

The king is a madman 🤣🤣👑

BenK

While Jose has clearly made some errors recently I really feel he has been hung out to dry by Ed and co.

Sacking him now doesn't really solve the issue of our defence being crap. It'll still be crap if a new man comes in. The time to sack Jose was in the summer and then back his replacement to bring in players he wanted.

By not backing and not sacking him they've allowed it to become open season where his control and authority can be openly questioned by players (Pogba, Martial etc.), fans and media.

Mitch Connor

BenK wrote: »

While Jose has clearly made some errors recently I really feel he has been hung out to dry by Ed and co.

Sacking him now doesn't really solve the issue of our defence being crap. It'll still be crap if a new man comes in. The time to sack Jose was in the summer and then back his replacement to bring in players he wanted.

By not backing and not sacking him they've allowed it to become open season where his control and authority can be openly questioned by players (Pogba, Martial etc.), fans and media.

If they chose not to trust him or back him on a number of targets in the summer will it be different in January? If not, do we sack him now, get a new man in who will have 3 months to work with the current squad and plan for January so we can maybe get in one or two in January?

xtal191

Tyson Fury wrote: »

Why would the board give Mourinho more money for centre backs? He's already spent a fortune on 2 who don't seem to be upto it. Atleast they're starting to see sense.

Whys it ok for other managers to buy flops and replace them but not Mourinho? Pep bought Bravo, he didnt work out and bought Ederson. Klopp bought Karius, didnt work and bought Alisson, theres so many examples of this. Why is it only Mourinho who has to use the players he bought?

J. Marston

I don't think you can rely on Lukaku for the level we want to get to. Three sitters in three games, two of them game-changing. Last season he went over two months without a league goal. Any passes into feet is 50/50 whether he controls it or it cannons off him. The best and most often run he makes is running the right channel to cross in a ball, not what you want your 6'4 built like an ox striker to be doing. Add in his dreadful record against big sides and I just can't see him being the guy for us up front.

Who is really confident when you see him through on goal? Liverpool/City/Spurs fans have the luxury of Salah/Aguero/Kane and the confidence that brings. When I see Lukaku with a great chance, I'm watching it through my fingers.

LuckyLloyd

xtal191 wrote: »

Whys it ok for other managers to buy flops and replace them but not Mourinho? Pep bought Bravo, he didnt work out and bought Ederson. Klopp bought Karius, didnt work and bought Alisson, theres so many examples of this. Why is it only Mourinho who has to use the players he bought?

Karius cost £4.75m. Bravo cost up to £17m (sections of that fee not realised in all likelihood). It seems fully reasonable to contend that cheaper initial investment into particular positions will be treated differently down the line than significant outlays that fail to pay off.

Cantona's Collars

https://www.joe.co.uk/sport/manchester-united-mourinho-chelsea-197052

A decent read.

LuckyLloyd

Cantona's Collars wrote: »

https://www.joe.co.uk/sport/manchester-united-mourinho-chelsea-197052

A decent read.

Captures a lot of the nuance and complexity that makes up the context of the results and reactions to same. I only take issue with this section:

United inverted the usual pre-season optimism to a comical extent, and that had almost nothing to do with their achievements in Mourinho’s first two seasons. On results alone, he succeeded: two trophies - B-list trophies but trophies nonetheless - and a second-place finish in the Premier League. It’s not what he wanted or expected, but there is virtue in finishing second to a record-breaking Manchester City side. Especially as United were above Liverpool and Spurs.

You make the deal with the devil that is Mourinho and all the negative stuff that surrounds Mourinho to win one of the two big prizes. He had always delivered that before within two years. As harsh as it sounds, in that sense he failed. For sure, you can point to City's absurd points haul as a mitigating factor in the league but you can't excuse Nzonzi and Banega strolling around the middle of the park in Old Trafford last March. In retrospect the biggest two games of the season, losing to Sevilla in the manner they did simply wasn't acceptable. In that sense, he fell short of success.

yourdeadwright

Say they do sack Jose who do you bring in ?
I reckon Zidane will be what the majority say but is he really any good ?
If i was United board id be waiting and replace Jose with Simone in the Summer,

xtal191

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Karius cost £4.75m. Bravo cost up to £17m (sections of that fee not realised in all likelihood). It seems fully reasonable to contend that cheaper initial investment into particular positions will be treated differently down the line than significant outlays that fail to pay off.

So isn't it the club/Woodwards fault for overpaying for average players?

bucketybuck

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Captures a lot of the nuance and complexity that makes up the context of the results and reactions to same. I only take issue with this section:



You make the deal with the devil that is Mourinho and all the negative stuff that surrounds Mourinho to win one of the two big prizes. He had always delivered that before within two years. As harsh as it sounds, in that sense he failed. For sure, you can point to City's absurd points haul as a mitigating factor in the league but you can't excuse Nzonzi and Banega strolling around the middle of the park in Old Trafford last March. In retrospect the biggest two games of the season, losing to Sevilla in the manner they did simply wasn't acceptable. In that sense, he fell short of success.

I disagree completely. Only a few outliers would seriously have expected the post Van Gaal United to win a title within 2 seasons, they were out of europe and out of the top 4 for gods sake.

When the article says that on results alone he succeeded it is 100%correct, Mourinho took a side that was in a horrible place and brought it back to normality. That alone should be considered progress, and then you add the fact that a comfortable 2nd place would indeed have been a real title challenge had City been having a "normal" season as opposed to a record breaking one.

To say he fell short of success has to assume that Mourinho automatically means a title win. That is unrealistic and I genuinely do not believe that many United fans expected a title win within just two seasons.

Because lets not forget, it has only been two seasons, he isn't even going to get a serious run at that all important 3rd season.

MaceFace

I fail to see how anyone can back Jose at this stage.

• You can claim he hasn't being backed, even though he has a net spend of over £300m.
• You can say he never got the center back in that he wanted, but he has 2 that were valued at over £30 each before the market went (even more) crazy.
• You can say he had so many players coming back from the world cup late, but so did many other teams.

No one seems to know who the best 11 are, what style of football is trying to be played, or the formation of the team. It's a bit all over the place.
None of the players have played consistently well.
Everything is a drama and he is never at fault. If anything goes wrong, it is the players, or Woodward, or the media.
The football is poor to watch, riddled with mistakes and very poor individual performances.
The team changes constantly which gives the players no chance to develop an understanding of the system and how to play with other players. This leaves 11 people on pitch all playing as a group of individuals.
I don't think any player has enhanced their reputation under him (except Lingard)

markcahill1985

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Say they do sack Jose who do you bring in ?
I reckon Zidane will be what the majority say but is he really any good ?
If i was United board id be waiting and replace Jose with Simone in the Summer,

If it was me I would appoint an interim manger(s) for the rest of the season. Put some real thought into the philosophy going forward, look to appoint a DOF and then a manager who fits his and the clubs philosophy.

Lord TSC

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Say they do sack Jose who do you bring in ?
I reckon Zidane will be what the majority say but is he really any good ?
If i was United board id be waiting and replace Jose with Simone in the Summer,

A man possibly even more "negative" in his football?

I'd say no matter what happens, the priority now will be getting someone who will promise champagne football, so when we solidfy our top 4 ambitions, at least everyone can sleep easy knowing we played nice football....

yourdeadwright

Serious question , what tyoe of manger do United go for next a Poch/ Klopp who will look to build a team and club or someone who will look to mange for a few seasons and move on ,

bucketybuck wrote: »

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Captures a lot of the nuance and complexity that makes up the context of the results and reactions to same. I only take issue with this section:



You make the deal with the devil that is Mourinho and all the negative stuff that surrounds Mourinho to win one of the two big prizes. He had always delivered that before within two years. As harsh as it sounds, in that sense he failed. For sure, you can point to City's absurd points haul as a mitigating factor in the league but you can't excuse Nzonzi and Banega strolling around the middle of the park in Old Trafford last March. In retrospect the biggest two games of the season, losing to Sevilla in the manner they did simply wasn't acceptable. In that sense, he fell short of success.

I disagree completely. Only a few outliers would seriously have expected the post Van Gaal United to win a title within 2 seasons, they were out of europe and out of the top 4 for gods sake.

When the article says that on results alone he succeeded it is 100%correct, Mourinho took a side that was in a horrible place and brought it back to normality. That alone should be considered progress, and then you add the fact that a comfortable 2nd place would indeed have been a real title challenge had City been having a "normal" season as opposed to a record breaking one.

To say he fell short of success has to assume that Mourinho automatically means a title win. That is unrealistic and I genuinely do not believe that many United fans expected a title win within just two seasons.

Because lets not forget, it has only been two seasons, he isn't even going to get a serious run at that all important 3rd season.

I think your 100% on the above ,
a lot of United fans only knew Fergie and where blessed to grow up in such a time of success, The way the Prem is now with 6 super strong teams its really easy to finish 2nd or 6th the margins are that fine,
City are a bit of a maverick because of the money they can throw at it, This year we will find out if last year was just an extraordinary season or the norm for them ,
Its a crazy league you start with 6 big clubs with 6 top mangers so automatically 2 mangers have to fail (as in out of the top four) Then if your United or City anything below 2nd is seen as a failure , Chelsea 4th is seen as Rubbish, Liverpool and Spurs seem to be ok with 4th , Its very hard succeed ,

DM_7

Lord TSC wrote: »

A man possibly even more "negative" in his football?

I'd say no matter what happens, the priority now will be getting someone who will promise champagne football, so when we solidfy our top 4 ambitions, at least everyone can sleep easy knowing we played nice football....

That is a sad thought tbh.

If people think like that they follow the wrong United. Need to go blow some bubbles.

bangkok

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Say they do sack Jose who do you bring in ?
I reckon Zidane will be what the majority say but is he really any good ?
If i was United board id be waiting and replace Jose with Simone in the Summer,

Give him the season or until jan at least and then go all out for pochettino

LuckyLloyd

bangkok wrote: »

Give him the season or until jan at least and then go all out for pochettino

You can’t simply say “give him the season”. Chelsea were very reluctant to pull the trigger in 2015 but it got bad enough that they were left with no choice. You can only keep going with him so long as the results meet some base criteria.

bangkok

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

You can’t simply say “give him the season”. Chelsea were very reluctant to pull the trigger in 2015 but it got bad enough that they were left with no choice. You can only keep going with him so long as the results meet some base criteria.

Give it to an interm managet then until end of season and then go for poch

pjohnson

Anyone who complains about Mourinho but then suggests Simeone have clearly never saw Atletico.

Hococop

pjohnson wrote: »

Anyone who complains about Mourinho but then suggests Simeone have clearly never saw Atletico.

Think I said this a year or 2 back how the media treats both, Jose grinds out a 1-0 win it's parking the bus, Simeone does the same and its a defensive masterclass

bangkok

Hococop wrote: »

Think I said this a year or 2 back how the media treats both, Jose grinds out a 1-0 win it's parking the bus, Simeone does the same and its a defensive masterclass

I think thats when simeone does it against the likes of messi and barca, we do it against the likes of leicester

eagle eye

Just out of interest, what is the story with Rojo? To me he was United's best defender before an injury but he never seems to be even on the bench these days.

MD1990

bangkok wrote: »

I think thats when simeone does it against the likes of messi and barca, we do it against the likes of leicester

Simeone & Atletico struggled badly to a 1-0 vs Rayo at the weekend. They were awful.

He is like a younger Mourinho in ways.

DM_7

At some point people will realise United are not well ran. Their recent upturn was down to Jose and huge spend rather than good planning as a club.

MD1990 wrote: »

Simeone & Atletico struggled badly to a 1-0 vs Rayo at the weekend. They were awful.

He is like a younger Mourinho in ways.

Brilliant manager so a good comparison.

MD1990

DM_7 wrote: »

At some point people will realise United are not well ran. Their recent upturn was down to Jose and huge spend rather than good planning as a club.




Brilliant manager so a good comparison.

Very good coach but I think he suits an underdog type club as he runs players into the ground.

Don't think would suit certain clubs that want an attractive style of play.

I think he will join Inter next as they have struggled for years.

pjohnson

bangkok wrote: »

I think thats when simeone does it against the likes of messi and barca, we do it against the likes of leicester

He uses that style against everyone.

yourdeadwright

So how do United go for next ?

DM_7

yourdeadwright wrote: »

So how do United go for next ?

Daniel Levy.

yourdeadwright

yourdeadwright wrote: »

So how do United go for next ?

eddie no chance I reckon

bangkok

pjohnson wrote: »

He uses that style against everyone.

They scored 3 in europa league final, 4 against madrid in supercup.

BenK

Mitch Connor wrote: »

If they chose not to trust him or back him on a number of targets in the summer will it be different in January? If not, do we sack him now, get a new man in who will have 3 months to work with the current squad and plan for January so we can maybe get in one or two in January?

I suppose only Jose has any idea or inkling of whether he is going to be backed again in January. Personally I think I would stick with Jose until January at least (assuming things get somewhere back on track for top 4). A decision to sack him may be unavoidable before then though if current form/results continue.

If he's not going to be backed again in January then I think he should be sacked now to just pull the plaster off. Why wait if you've lost faith in him?

Talisman

Deleted User wrote: »

Well if that was some how the case it makes the decision to give him a contract a few months previous even more bizzare and shows the club at the very top haven't a clue what they are doing from a footballing perspective

That has been obvious for years. The Glazer family are in abstentia - that's the joint chairmen of the club and half of the directors. They don't care about the club and leave it in the hands of the accountant/investment banker, Ed Woodward.

DARK-KNIGHT

OK so what manager is going to bring attacking flair back to the club?

xtal191

https://twitter.com/utdxtra/status/1034241786515009536

StringerBell

bangkok wrote: »

They scored 3 in europa league final, 4 against madrid in supercup.

The moon isn't even made of cheese!

Trigger

bangkok wrote: »

They scored 3 in europa league final, 4 against madrid in supercup.

United scored 3 against Man City


Woohoo defence is the best form of attack

bangkok

Real madrid in for sterling. Be gas if he left city

VW 1

bangkok wrote: »

Give it to an interm managet then until end of season and then go for poch

The suggestion of an interim manager appointment is fine if the season is tits up and a few games to go a la Moyes.

Suggesting an interim manager with 35 PL games to go and the European and Cup competitions not yet under way is absolute insanity.

Who exactly would be this interim manager you would appoint anyway?

Discodog

Interview with Shaw:

It ratchets up the pressure on the United boss and his team ahead of Sunday's trip to Burnley, where left-back Shaw knows a response is needed.

"You always see a lot of things in the media that go on about what our dressing room is like," the 23-year-old said.

"But, look, we have a really good spirit, a really good group of lads and a group that want to work, want to achieve big things here.

"We have a really good group and yeah of course we'll reflect on our day off (on Tuesday) and we'll come back in on Wednesday.

"We've got a really good group, a good group of hard workers and amazing talents everywhere you look on the field.

"We've just got to start taking our chances and I am sure we will start winning more games."

Shaw believes it should have been "game over" by half-time as United impressed against a frustrated Spurs side.

But, ultimately, defensive and mental brittleness saw Mourinho's men collapse, with just 133 seconds between the visitors' first and second goals.

Mourinho reminded the players they were on top at half time before their disastrous second half.

“To the fans that came out tonight, we are sorry and we will be better next week, we will improve, we will keep working hard,” Shaw told MUTV.

“We spoke at half-time and Jose [Mourinho] said they hadn't had one corner, one cross or one dangerous opportunity

"Even then, we should have been relaxed, I think. 'Look, it's only one goal, we've still got a lot of time' and then comes maybe another mistake.

"Another silly, stupid goal. We were so on top and it's just disappointing, really disappointing.

"Everyone in the dressing room is really sad, especially after the first half we had and especially a big thank you to the fans for the way they supported us, even when we were down 3-0, was amazing.

"At the final whistle as well, the way they were clapping the team was I think really respectful and really nice for us as players to receive after a disappointing result.

"And obviously to the fans that came out tonight, we're sorry, we'll be better next week.

"We'll improve, we'll keep working hard. It's early in the season so we've got a lot of games to come and a lot of positive things from tonight.

"But we've got to get points and tonight's result wasn't good enough.

"Like I said, I am sorry for the fans, not just the ones here but the ones at home that have been watching and supporting us.

"It wasn't good tonight and we'll look at that over the next week and bounce back against Burnley."

Shaw will surely get another chance to start this weekend after another bright United display, while an England recall when Gareth Southgate names his first squad since the World Cup on Thursday would be deserved.

"Tonight, personally for me, I don't really care about my performance," Shaw said. "I care more about the result and as a team.

"We need to pick up points, especially with two losses now. We need to look next week to win and win in a good way.

"I think we played really well in the first half and if we keep playing like that, and we take our chances, then we have got to win games."

https://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/premier-league/manchester-united/luke-shaw-reveals-what-jose-mourinho-said-in-the-manchester-united-dressing-room-at-halftime-last-night-37259643.html

bangkok

VW 1 wrote: »

The suggestion of an interim manager appointment is fine if the season is tits up and a few games to go a la Moyes.

Suggesting an interim manager with 35 PL games to go and the European and Cup competitions not yet under way is absolute insanity.

Who exactly would be this interim manager you would appoint anyway?

I didnt mean sack him now.. give him until jan at least and then end of season see how things are but if top 4 gone bring in interm then

yourdeadwright

United where the better team but spurs still had chances first half Ali  had two great chances (the one he took to long over and the one Herra got back to block)  and there was also a stone wall peno ,
The we should have been out of sight narritive is nonsense,
 United even thought the better side there only chance all game was the Lakaku one

Harry Palmr

bangkok wrote: »

Real madrid in for sterling. Be gas if he left city

They'd hardly notice.

deaddonkey15

Despite the disappointing result, I was quite encouraged by the performance last night. It was good to see the fans still behind Mourinho at the final whistle too. I found his interview and press conference encouraging also although I don't think he did himself any favours by storming out after his "three titles" remark.

dfx-

pjohnson wrote: »

He uses that style against everyone.

Moreso, the whole club are in it with him. They buy players and replace players that suits him and they are all behind him, rowing together, winning a league, losing a CL final or otherwise.

billyhead

We really missed a big opportunity when Klopp was available. I would love to see Mourinho succeed and give a big f you to the media but its not looking good. We whould and will give him until at least Christmas if not until the end of the year to turn things around. If he was to be given the sack or walk out what about the likes of Lauren Blanc or Didier Deschamps?

malinheader

The biggest problem at Utd at the minute are there owners. It is not being ran as a football club anymore. They don't care about supporters or trophys as long as they are making money through there corporate boxes and advertising. All there using is the name. Glazers out.

ericzeking

bucketybuck wrote: »

I disagree completely. Only a few outliers would seriously have expected the post Van Gaal United to win a title within 2 seasons, they were out of europe and out of the top 4 for gods sake.

When the article says that on results alone he succeeded it is 100%correct, Mourinho took a side that was in a horrible place and brought it back to normality. That alone should be considered progress, and then you add the fact that a comfortable 2nd place would indeed have been a real title challenge had City been having a "normal" season as opposed to a record breaking one.

To say he fell short of success has to assume that Mourinho automatically means a title win. That is unrealistic and I genuinely do not believe that many United fans expected a title win within just two seasons.

Because lets not forget, it has only been two seasons, he isn't even going to get a serious run at that all important 3rd season.

Sure that's exactly why he was hired, to win the title quick smart, because that's what he does.

He's the hired gun David Gill alluded to.

Why would anyone think Mourinho was hired to create some sort of lasting legacy when he had never done it anywhere else, not least Chelsea where he was/is a god?

I actually did expect him to win the title, but I still didn't and don't want him as the manager.

It's probably part of the reason the owners reined in the spending...they hadn't planned on it taking this long and this much money. Mourinho was the short term appeasement hiring. I expect they thought he'd have won the title and be on his way by now, that's his form.