Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2018/2019 [Mod note 31-Aug-18]

beno619

ericzeking wrote: »

Why would anyone think Mourinho was hired to create some sort of lasting legacy when he had never done it anywhere else, not least Chelsea where he was/is a god?

He was too big for Porto and Inter. Madrid and Chelsea are crazy clubs.

pjohnson

Demi Mitchell has rejoined Hearts on loan.

ericzeking

beno619 wrote: »

He was too big for Porto and Inter. Madrid and Chelsea are crazy clubs.

Inter would be a bigger club than Chelsea I would have thought.

And he left them to do another short term hired gun job at Madrid.

If he was a legacy manager, Inter was the perfect place for him to do it but that's not his gig.

bucketybuck

ericzeking wrote: »

It's probably part of the reason the owners reined in the spending...they hadn't planned on it taking this long and this much money. Mourinho was the short term appeasement hiring. I expect they thought he'd have won the title and be on his way by now, that's his form.

Anybody who seriously thought that Jose could take United from 5th in the table to champions within 2 seasons while spending less money than the teams above them, I'm sorry but that person is a buffoon.

pjohnson

ericzeking wrote: »

It's probably part of the reason the owners reined in the spending...they hadn't planned on it taking this long and this much money. Mourinho was the short term appeasement hiring. I expect they thought he'd have won the title and be on his way by now, that's his form.

Then the board shouldn't have renewed his contract.

jayo26

pjohnson wrote: »

Demi Mitchell has rejoined Hearts on loan.

Think that was a couple days ago mate he also signed a new contract I'm nearly sure.

pjohnson

jayo26 wrote: »

Think that was a couple days ago mate he also signed a new contract I'm nearly sure.

Club only announced it today.

DM_7

Jose was brought into get top 4 and Champions League.

His personal ambition is to win hence the annoyance at the club becoming more restrictive this summer.

The new contract is proof of him delivering on the expectations.

ericzeking

bucketybuck wrote: »

Anybody who seriously thought that Jose could take United from 5th in the table to champions within 2 seasons while spending less money than the teams above them, I'm sorry but that person is a buffoon.

Was he not supposed to be the best manager in the world? He was handed a very expensively assembled squad and was given plenty more money to get players like Zlatan and Pogba (Isn't it only City that have outspent United?).
You think Zlatan signed to fulfil his lifelong dream of winning the Rumbelows Cup? The title was supposed to be won by now, make no mistake about it.

Pro-Jose people are re-writing history now claiming Jose was hired for a long term project because it appears to be going tits up.

There are reasons he wasn't hired in 2013 like.

Cookiemunster

ericzeking wrote: »

Was he not supposed to be the best manager in the world? He was handed a very expensively assembled squad and was given plenty more money to get players like Zlatan and Pogba (Isn't it only City that have outspent United?).
You think Zlatan signed to fulfil his lifelong dream of winning the Rumbelows Cup? The title was supposed to be won by now, make no mistake about it.

Pro-Jose people are re-writing history now claiming Jose was hired for a long term project because it appears to be going tits up.

There are reasons he wasn't hired in 2013 like.

He inherited a poorly assembled squad that included substandard players that the club had grossly overpaid for. He has also spent less than Pep who started off with a better squad. You're the only one rewriting history.

eagle eye

The fact of the matter is that United fans expect to win titles, that is Premier league titles and then the odd Champion's league title.
If this isn't happening then being up there and being entertained by the football has to happen.
The football isn't entertaining and you are nowhere near winning a league title or Champion's league.
Something has to give and the manager is the most likely casualty.

DM_7

ericzeking wrote: »

Was he not supposed to be the best manager in the world? He was handed a very expensively assembled squad and was given plenty more money to get players like Zlatan and Pogba (Isn't it only City that have outspent United?).
You think Zlatan signed to fulfil his lifelong dream of winning the Rumbelows Cup? The title was supposed to be won by now, make no mistake about it.

Pro-Jose people are re-writing history now claiming Jose was hired for a long term project because it appears to be going tits up.

There are reasons he wasn't hired in 2013 like.

You are so blinkered in your view.

Jose was hired for three years to guarantee United get back to Champions League Qualification each year. Bring trophies along the way but if you believe he was required to win the league you are wrong. Did he he want to do it? Sure. Did the board want it? If possible certainly. It was not a requirement though, hence the extension.

DM_7

eagle eye wrote: »

The fact of the matter is that United fans expect to win titles, that is Premier league titles and then the odd Champion's league title.
If this isn't happening then being up there and being entertained by the football has to happen.
The football isn't entertaining and you are nowhere near winning a league title or Champion's league.
Something has to give and the manager is the most likely casualty.

Fans can expect what they like. Sure that is why the our year stuff comes up for Liverpool.

Entertaining football is bollox anyway. Winning football is all that matters.

Part of why United were only good enough for 2nd is also why they do not appear have improved over the summer, many of the weaknesses from 2015/16 and before remain. That is only partly Jose's fault. The club is not well ran on the football side.

Jose has not fully delivered on his words about style yet:

"I prefer to be more aggressive and to be more aggressive is to say 'we want to win'. I could anticipate that one of you will come later with a question about style of play, and what is before is the result of the style of play. I can anticipate that by saying that you can win a short competition and you can win a couple of matches without playing well. But you cannot win a competition without playing well.

What is playing well? It is scoring more goals than the opponent, it is to concede less than the opponent, it is to make your fans proud because you gave everything and you win. I want everything. I want to win matches, play well, play young players, score goals, not concede goals.

I want the fans to be behind us not because we are chasing a result in the last 10 minutes but because we are defending a result. Of course we are not going to get everything, but we want to."

ericzeking

DM_7 wrote: »

You are so blinkered in your view.

Jose was hired for three years to guarantee United get back to Champions League Qualification each year. Bring trophies along the way but if you believe he was required to win the league you are wrong. Did he he want to do it? Sure. Did the board want it? If possible certainly. It was not a requirement though, hence the extension.

You write this as if I said it was in a contract or something.

So many people on here wilfully misunderstand posts.

bucketybuck

ericzeking wrote: »

Pro-Jose people are re-writing history now claiming Jose was hired for a long term project because it appears to be going tits up.

There are reasons he wasn't hired in 2013 like.

Really? Well, let me have a look back at what I was saying a few years ago, mid 2016 and early 2017, would that do?

I expect/demand a title challenge next season as well, thats just the way it is.

When you think about it though, it is slightly crazy to be expecting so much so soon. The club has went through some massive changes, has basically wasted three years of development on **** managers and regardless of sunk costs that squad still needs a serious injection of quality, for numerous reasons there absolutely will be a lot of changes in personnel over the next few seasons. And yet the demand is for the manager to take all that and still create a title winning team in year two.

Viewed dispassionately it doesn't make much sense, with a manager in his first season and a team that was a bit of mess a title challenge in year two should really be seen as optimistic.

Well thats the same point I made today, is that rewriting history?

Indeed. Things have improved and I expect them to improve even further over the next 12 months, but we are not world beaters yet and we are going to lose and draw games in the very near future, so talk of title challenges are very optimistic.

I don't even rate most of the challengers all that highly and if we maintain our form I think we will easily bypass a few of them, but we just won't catch all of them.

Title challenges optimistic, is that rewriting history?

I wonder what I said about the whole legacy thing?

Is that really so surprising?

Before his appointment, I always objected to the narrative that Mourinho would be a bad appointment for United because he was all about his own ego and would be nothing but a short term appointment, somebody who would look for quick success before moving on leaving a mess in his wake.

I didn't agree and said as much, because everything I saw from Mourinho was that of a man who really wanted the United job, and who wanted it because he thought he could build a real legacy there, that it would be the right club to do far more than squeeze out a title or two.

His recent words and actions concerning Fergie simply reinforce that, he is embracing Fergie and his history because he is embracing the entire club and its history. He has enough personal success not to feel insecure about it, he isn't embracing it because cynical logic says that would be a good move, he is embracing it because he agrees with the traditions of the club and wants to be a part of that history.

So he pays homage to the legends and makes sure his team play "the United way". More and more I think I was right at the start, this manager wants more than 3 years, he wants to be here far longer than that.

Apologies, but the Boards.ie search function doesn't agree with your whole "re-writing history" thing.

StringerBell

pjohnson wrote: »

Club only announced it today.

I'm certain I heard that somewhere yesterday or the day before too

Talisman

billyhead wrote: »

We really missed a big opportunity when Klopp was available.

Ed Woodward pitched the job to Klopp before Moyes was sacked - he described the Man Utd stadium as being "like an adult version of Disneyland". The pitch obviously didn't go over too well and Klopp decided to stick with Dortmund.

Trigger

StringerBell wrote: »

I'm certain I heard that somewhere yesterday or the day before too

Yeah it was widely reported yesterday and the day before but only confirmed today

IamtheWalrus

Anyone notice how aged Jose looked in his post-Spurs Sky interview? Thinner hair and shrunken face.

ericzeking

bucketybuck wrote: »

Really? Well, let me have a look back at what I was saying a few years ago, mid 2016 and early 2017, would that do?



Well thats the same point I made today, is that rewriting history?




Title challenges optimistic, is that rewriting history?

I wonder what I said about the whole legacy thing?



Apologies, but the Boards.ie search function doesn't agree with your whole "re-writing history" thing.

Apologies for not checking your posting history, perhaps it was wrong of me to quote you but it was the idea I was referencing rather than something personal.

All this really says is that you personally have been consistent in fairness to you and that you were very high on Jose right from the start.

However the rhetoric that is out there that he just needs more time and is improving and it will eventually come right and we'll win the title and that this was always the way it was meant to be because he had such an uphill task at the beginning doesn't fit with his career thus far or with the years at United leading to his appointment.

In fact, if he was left in place, he might even still win the title eventually, if he was backed in his transfer strategies, but my point is, it wasn't the original idea. Woodward hired him for a quick fix.

IamtheWalrus

Talisman wrote: »

Ed Woodward pitched the job to Klopp before Moyes was sacked - he described the Man Utd stadium as being "like an adult version of Disneyland". The pitch obviously didn't go over too well and Klopp decided to stick with Dortmund.

I don't belive Klopp turned down Utd back then for Liverpool. Didn't Fergie mention Klopp in the list of top-tier managers who were unavailable the time he retired?

Talisman

IamtheWalrus wrote: »

I don't belive Klopp turned down Utd back then for Liverpool. Didn't Fergie mention Klopp in the list of top-tier managers who were unavailable the time he retired?

It wasn't a case of him choosing Liverpool over Man Utd. In May 2014, he chose to stay with Dortmund instead of replacing Moyes at Man Utd. Woodward mucked up the pitch. He joined Liverpool a year later in October 2015.

'Man Utd are like an adult version of Disneyland!' - Klopp reveals crazy Red Devils approach

yabadabado

billyhead wrote: »

We really missed a big opportunity when Klopp was available. I would love to see Mourinho succeed and give a big f you to the media but its not looking good. We whould and will give him until at least Christmas if not until the end of the year to turn things around. If he was to be given the sack or walk out what about the likes of Lauren Blanc or Didier Deschamps?

Why ?

Granted they play very attractive football but he has yet to win anything, good football only works for so long before the fans want to see some silverware.

thegreengoblin

IamtheWalrus wrote: »

Anyone notice how aged Jose looked in his post-Spurs Sky interview? Thinner hair and shrunken face.

Extreme pressure does that to people. I watched that interview in full today and I really got angry watching it. He had the fking nerve to talk about demanding respect when he's using another club's success from a few years ago to justify his own position. The cheek of him. Bog off and take your miserable scowl with you. I don't care who the club get in, it will be a happier place without him when he's gone and I bet that would be replicated on the pitch.

Trigger

Jaysus

beno619

ericzeking wrote: »

Inter would be a bigger club than Chelsea I would have thought.

And he left them to do another short term hired gun job at Madrid.

If he was a legacy manager, Inter was the perfect place for him to do it but that's not his gig.

Inter haven’t been a bigger club the Chelsea for quite some time. Inter to Madrid is a step up and nobody would turn that down.

Beating Pep and breaking some records vidicated that decision.

uncleoswald

Surprised (unless I've missed it) at the lack of discussion about Jose playing Herrera at CB. It was so bizarre I convinced myself it might be a stroke of genius. But then the game started and reality hit. It's hard to believe that Jose really thought it would work. Was it simply a statement to the board? Or to the players he left out? While I don't think we have any world beating defenders I'm convinced Jose should be doing more with what he does have and sh*t like this isn't helping.

Wheeliebin30

Some people wouldn’t take Klopp over mourinho in here????

Ah would ya give over!!!

VW 1

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

Some people wouldn’t take Klopp over mourinho in here????

Ah would ya give over!!!

Mourinho was more successful in the league last year, and won two trophies the year before. What is it exsctly klopp has won since joining pool? Or his overall managerial career even, that would compare to Jose?

In fairness to him, he knows how to get to a final. Maybe it'll click for him eventually.

Cantona's Collars

VW 1 wrote: »

In fairness to him, he knows how to get to a final. Maybe it'll click for him eventually.

Hopefully it won't click until he's at a different club. Watching the chance of silverware constantly slip away on him is quite comforting to a United fan.

IamtheWalrus

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

Some people wouldn’t take Klopp over mourinho in here????

Ah would ya give over!!!

He gets a free ride in the press for being 'jolly'.

HandsomeBob

IamtheWalrus wrote: »

He gets a free ride in the press for being 'jolly'.

Wouldn't say that now. Klopp is often dismissed in the press (and by ex Liverpool players as well) as having little substance to his game. When he lost his No. 2 before the CL final the press was coming out with all sorts of crap about the brains of the operation no longer being there.

Just wait for the first calamity that occurs at the back and we'll see if he gets a free ride.

Anyway.... I wouldn't worry about the current predicament Man U find themselves in. With the players Mourinho has there he can't NOT turn it around. To be fair to him as well that result on Monday was a freak based on the performances of both teams.

Trigger

I’m not even going to post Castles latest, not going to ruin your mornings :pac:

astradave

astradave wrote: »

Jaysus

Some amount of muck being posted, it's actually kind of comical

bangkok

Champions league draw tomorrow at 5. We are in pot 2

https://twitter.com/D_DeGea/status/1034522309988679681?s=19

jayo26

thegreengoblin wrote: »

Extreme pressure does that to people. I watched that interview in full today and I really got angry watching it. He had the fking nerve to talk about demanding respect when he's using another club's success from a few years ago to justify his own position. The cheek of him. Bog off and take your miserable scowl with you. I don't care who the club get in, it will be a happier place without him when he's gone and I bet that would be replicated on the pitch.

Great post you are spot on.. I know many posters will say your talking BS but I'm not one of them really enjoyed reading that.

StringerBell

jayo26 wrote: »

Great post you are spot on.. I know many posters will say your talking BS but I'm not one of them really enjoyed reading that.

I'm on the mobile so no idea if that pic worked..... someone fix if not

https://twitter.com/utdxtra/status/1034537493964763138?s=19

loyatemu

bucketybuck wrote: »

Anybody who seriously thought that Jose could take United from 5th in the table to champions within 2 seasons while spending less money than the teams above them, I'm sorry but that person is a buffoon.

if it was clearly going to take longer then why hire a man who consistently sets fire to his clubs in the 3rd year.

People citing the EL win and last year's second place - for the money he's spent he's at best achieved par; and he's done it while alienating players and fans and playing lousy safety-first football. That might be acceptable if it looked like he was going to win the league eventually but that seems very unlikely now.

Trigger

StringerBell wrote: »

I'm on the mobile so no idea if that pic worked..... someone fix if not

Not sure you can use png so I threw in a gif

Mitch Connor

loyatemu wrote: »

if it was clearly going to take longer then why hire a man who consistently sets fire to his clubs in the 3rd year.

People citing the EL win and last year's second place - for the money he's spent he's at best achieved par; and he's done it while alienating players and fans and playing lousy safety-first football. That might be acceptable if it looked like he was going to win the league eventually but that seems very unlikely now.

Because the club felt he was the best manager available to him at the time and the 3 year cycle wouldn't be repeated - hence why he got a new contract last season.

They believe(d) that he could build a more long term legacy at United than at previous clubs.

They believe(d) that they could handle him.

I also reckon they believe(d) he could bring a title within 3 years if things went well. Came second in year two so a title in year 3 isn't/wasn't inconceivable.

The Golden Miller

Mourinho will end up at Milan, the club is a perfect fit for him

Loafing Oaf

I wonder would things have gone differently if Mourinho had come in straight after SAF, as he should have done if he was going to be appointed at all IMO. The job at that point would have been about keeping a successful machine ticking over, topping things up with a couple of astute big signings, more Mourinho's bag than the job he faced in 2016 IMO...

sReq | uTeK

He's kind of right.

I mean for the first 45 minutes, it wasn't special but it was significantly better than anything we've done in terms of urgency and aggression in the past 18 months.

Jones, switches off at the corner against their most potent player and allowed him an inch of space and we went behind.

The 2nd goal came when we hadn't settled again, instead of going straight after them we should have contained the game and settled back into it.

the 3rd goal is a nothing goal where we had pushed everyone up.

Even at 2-0 we had plenty of chances to get back into the game.

If we continue playing with the mindset of the first 45 minutes and get back to actual defending we are on the right track.

jayo26

sReq | uTeK wrote: »

He's kind of right.

I mean for the first 45 minutes, it wasn't special but it was significantly better than anything we've done in terms of urgency and aggression in the past 18 months.

Jones, switches off at the corner against their most potent player and allowed him an inch of space and we went behind.

The 2nd goal came when we hadn't settled again, instead of going straight after them we should have contained the game and settled back into it.

the 3rd goal is a nothing goal where we had pushed everyone up.

Even at 2-0 we had plenty of chances to get back into the game.

If we continue playing with the mindset of the first 45 minutes and get back to actual defending we are on the right track.

Yeah I agree with you we were good enough in the first half to be a couple goals up. If we play like that against Burnley we will be fine but the problem is we have been something similar all last year we can pick out 45 minutes where we looked excellent then next game we revert back to strolling around the park.

Quandary

sReq | uTeK wrote: »

If we continue playing with the mindset of the first 45 minutes and get back to actual defending we are on the right track.

I agree.

We need that to happen quickly though because our season will go completely down the toilet and well be scrapping for a place in the top 6 otherwise.

They are two very very big ifs though

bucketybuck

loyatemu wrote: »

if it was clearly going to take longer then why hire a man who consistently sets fire to his clubs in the 3rd year.

Because the 3rd year thing was always a myth not supported by the evidence? It has been repeated so much that people now believe its true but that doesn't change the reality.

Any objective assessment of Mourinhos career would show that the 3rd year thing isn't really true, but then objective assessments of anything to do with Mourinho are thin on the ground. Blows up the third year, only plays defensive, his teams don't score goals, he doesn't play youth players, he only buys older players, myth after myth when it comes to Mourinho and most fan have no interest in hearing any different.

The irony today of course is that United have created a situation that is only going to re-inforce that narrative. They decided to pull their support at the time it was most needed and now things are only going to end one way. And when it does people will point to the year 3 thing and say "I told you so", all the while ignoring the reasons why it ended that way.

bucketybuck

Just on the Klopp thing, I think he has done and will continue to do a very good job at Liverpool.

But I have no idea why people think he would have been a success at United? Does anybody really think he would have gotten that squad playing in the style he prefers? That he would have gotten the likes of Rooney, Pobga and Martial working their asses off? That the defence would not have been shipping goals left right and centre while he was doing it? I saw Liverpools defensive organisation for 2 years, add that to our players and what would we have had?

I think Klopp would have needed a lot of time to get United playing the way he wants and as we know, time is not something afforded to United managers. Especially not to United managers appointed in 2016.

The_Kew_Tour

Any team who has won the PL has had a CB pairing who just click and are great partnership.

I have went back to every year of PL and every winners team has a super first choice CB pairing.

Ours are duds at the minute. I defended Jones a lot in past but the man is a accident waiting to happen every time he steps onto the field.

Been disappointed with Smalling development too. In 2011 v Man City he gave one of greatest Defensive displays I saw at OT

He should be England's CB first choice but they're reason he did not make the plane.