Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2018/2019 [Mod note 31-Aug-18]

pjohnson

astradave wrote: »

I’ve no need to twist your words, you do a great job of doing that yourself, you look at how you typed that sentence, your IF doesn’t look like It means that “if there were bids” it reads as you are saying “If the club values him at 60/70m”

At least it wasnt just me this time!

yourdeadwright

Liam O wrote: »

yourdeadwright wrote: »

I think everyone can understand why United would give Martial a new deal makes sense but that is hard to understand is why would he sign one ?
Seems Jose will not give him a good run in the team so why stay at 22 ,

Opposite to opinion I think José does like him, he consistently gets back into the team and talked up by José when he does. Then goes out and puts in very little effort and doesn't play like you would imagine José has asked him to.

José has no problem with players who don't put in the effort when they are producing e.g. Ozil, Ronaldo, Sneijder etc. but I imagine when a player is not producing and is also not bursting a gut it disappoints him more than anything.

Also obviously after the Summer José obviously doubts Martial's commitment to the cause even more than just on pitch performance. Martial did nothing to dispel that against Brighton.

Stopped reading after you said players who don't put in effort and mentioned Ronaldo .

bangkok

bangkok wrote: »

I said IF

LuckyLloyd

Fred The Red wrote: »

Giving Martial a new contract is a bit of an indication of what way the club is actually being ran at senior level.

Currently from a footballing aspect there is no ****ing way does he deserve a new contract the way he's been playing. It's has to be a marketable decision to this again.
Some amount of fans defending him but I don't get it personally.
If I was to twist this to a positive maybe club holding faith as he's still only 22.

I don't care about all the bull**** about him and Jose in the background spun up by the press but it's a kind of dangerous precident being set if a player like Martial who's been so utterly frustrating to watch can gain a new contract while the club manager could get getting the door.

Martial is a saleable asset with potentially a decade or more to play as a professional. Mourinho has no onsale value, costs as much per year and is quite unlikely to be Utd manager for another decade under any circumstance. I think it's quite prudent to prioritise the more valuable asset. Mourinho can bench him and leave him in the background and - in the event he turns it around - they can sell him with value increased due to the longer contract situation.

bangkok

Fred The Red wrote: »

StringerBell

That's true, Lloyd. You can see why the club would want to build up his contract in that regard and even if he let's you down you can still make back a decent fee. He could mess us around obviously and worst of all leave for free which would be a pain the hole considering...

Trigger

StringerBell wrote: »

That's true, Lloyd. You can see why the club would want to build up his contract in that regard and even if he let's you down you can still make back a decent fee. He could mess us around obviously and worst of all leave for free which would be a pain the hole considering...

The leave for free part though, there is a club option on his contract, so he has effectively 2 years left on it.. would he hang around for 2 years just to leave on a free?

magnumbud

astradave wrote: »

The leave for free part though, there is a club option on his contract, so he has effectively 2 years left on it.. would he hang around for 2 years just to leave on a free?

He might not want to but clubs might not be willing to spend on a player they could get on a free so would have to

DM_7

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Zidane is being spoken about by the players already according to reports yesterday.

Who knows if/when it would happen though. It is interesting that reports from France indicate that Zidane wants the job - I can't think of why he would want it. His reputation would be on the line and we are an absolute mess of a club.

As for Martial - he wanted to leave this summer. He tried to get his way out this summer. If he signs a 5 year contract and enforces/protects his value in the eyes of United, how could he possibly think it would be easier to leave next summer? He would also only have to look at our failure to sell players we did want to sell - if the club don't have a motivation to sell him it would only be even less likely we sell him.

He'd be insane to sign a new contract.

If United are talking to Zidane, I expect he would have a promise of structures like a DOF that he can work with existing. Zidane had great experience from Real in differant aspects of running the football side so he will not be naive.

Mitch Connor

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Martial is a saleable asset with potentially a decade or more to play as a professional. Mourinho has no onsale value, costs as much per year and is quite unlikely to be Utd manager for another decade under any circumstance. I think it's quite prudent to prioritise the more valuable asset. Mourinho can bench him and leave him in the background and - in the event he turns it around - they can sell him with value increased due to the longer contract situation.

That is a fair, but cold business, analysis of the situation alright.

The football side of me though sees it as a manager not rating a player, wanting to sell him to improve the side and the club deciding they know better than him - putting the value of an asset above the improvement of the team. That does not sit well with me.

LuckyLloyd

astradave wrote: »

The leave for free part though, there is a club option on his contract, so he has effectively 2 years left on it.. would he hang around for 2 years just to leave on a free?

It could well be in his interest to. He'd be 24, still getting the odd game or potentially being loaned out for a period, and in line for a huge signing bonus with no fee on the table.

It's also in his interest to sign a new five year deal at an increased base rate and gamble that Mourinho will leave or they'll sell him on anyway if Mourinho turns it around. He has tons of leverage and - when pro careers are so short - it's in his interests to maximise it.

DM_7

Mitch Connor wrote: »

That is a fair, but cold business, analysis of the situation alright.

The football side of me though sees it as a manager not rating a player, wanting to sell him to improve the side and the club deciding they know better than him - putting the value of an asset above the improvement of the team. That does not sit well with me.

It also sends thr message thay you can underperform or sulk at United and still get a new contract. I worry when I see an endorsement of mediocrity.

Business Cat

Business Cat wrote: »

Of course they can!

I've been talking specifically about the current version of United.

As the City fan above said, they are currently doing both however they are the exception to the rule.

If it came down to a choice between winning trophies ugly or winning nothing pretty then for me personally, it's the ugly winning every second of every hour of every day.

The ideal is to be both entertaining and successful though, nobody would argue to the contrary.

What the city fan above also failed to point out is if you you extremely filthy rich were money is no object you will end up with pretty much any wife/husband you want

DM_7

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

It could well be in his interest to. He'd be 24, still getting the odd game or potentially being loaned out for a period, and in line for a huge signing bonus with no fee on the table.

It's also in his interest to sign a new five year deal at an increased base rate and gamble that Mourinho will leave or they'll sell him on anyway if Mourinho turns it around. He has tons of leverage and - when pro careers are so short - it's in his interests to maximise it.

His best intetest (imo) would be to do what Memphis did. Get out and get on with playing.

What we see now is a club doing what they think is smart financially and most likely an Agent thinking they have a good way to increase earnings. If they are not careful they could have a young man on high wages with little prospect of another club wanting to take them on if he continues to struggle for games.

The smartest move imo is to play, everything else will come if he plays and plays well.

fyfe79

fatherted1969 wrote: »

Maybe the CEO has the groundwork done on a new manager and he's indicated that Martial is a player he could improve. Could be anything really

If true, it would make Mourinho’s position untenable, as he no doubt wants shot of Martial. Paddy Power have apparently started paying out on Mourinho being sacked, so the indicators are, to me, that Zidane is primed to take over and he has directed the club to keep Martial at all costs.

Loafing Oaf

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Zidane is being spoken about by the players already according to reports yesterday.

Who knows if/when it would happen though. It is interesting that reports from France indicate that Zidane wants the job - I can't think of why he would want it./QUOTE]

So what first attracted you to the world's wealthiest club, Mr Zidane?:p The premier league seems to live up to its name when it comes to attracting the top managers these days...A top 6 job in England is apparently the summit of the profession.

Hococop

All this zidane talk

There is no way he has been talking to us or telling us to keep martial

bangkok

Hococop wrote: »

All this zidane talk

There is no way he has been talking to us or telling us to keep martial

He will be telling us what tactics and players to play v burnley next!!

Mitch Connor

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Zidane is being spoken about by the players already according to reports yesterday.

Who knows if/when it would happen though. It is interesting that reports from France indicate that Zidane wants the job - I can't think of why he would want it.

So what first attracted you to the world's wealthiest club, Mr Zidane?:p The premier league seems to live up to its name when it comes to attracting the top managers these days...A top 6 job in England is apparently the summit of the profession.

He left Madrid. Hardly on a small amount there. Hardly a club of paupers.

As for United being wealthy, money is not of much use if the club refuse to spend money cause they think transfer fees are too high (one of the reasons given for the failure to buy CB this summer)

Mitch Connor

Hococop wrote: »

All this zidane talk

There is no way he has been talking to us or telling us to keep martial

So, you don't think United have any intention at all of letting Jose go?

Or, if they are considering his future, you don't think they have sounded out any potential replacements?

Or, if they have sounded out potential replacements, you don't think players in the current squad were discussed?

Backstreet Moyes

I will eat a hat if Zidane goes near the United job anytime soon.

Last season that champions league covered over the fact they were miles behind Barca in the league.

He didn't want to take up the battle of winning the title back and got out on a high.

Not a hope he joins United at this point in time with the state of the squad

J. Marston

Money, Money, Money, Moneeey, Monaaaaay....

https://twitter.com/Forbes/status/1035119945217204224

secman

Nuts102 wrote: »

I will eat a hat if Zidane goes near the United job anytime soon.

Last season that champions league covered over the fact they were miles behind Barca in the league.

He didn't want to take up the battle of winning the title back and got out on a high.

Not a hope he joins United at this point in time with the state of the squad

Just to be perfectly clear here, any hat, any colour hat, any size hat, any material, you will eat whatever hat is placed in front of you, no sauce, no salt and pepper... just hat.

LuckyLloyd

DM_7 wrote: »

His best intetest (imo) would be to do what Memphis did. Get out and get on with playing.

What we see now is a club doing what they think is smart financially and most likely an Agent thinking they have a good way to increase earnings. If they are not careful they could have a young man on high wages with little prospect of another club wanting to take them on if he continues to struggle for games.

The smartest move imo is to play, everything else will come if he plays and plays well.

Conventional wisdom that I'm not sure stacks up tbh. The examples are there throughout the years: Winston Bogarde and Daniel Sturridge two we'd be quite familiar with. Take the money, contracts in football are fully guaranteed. The contract he's signing this week are likely enough to provide for him and any current / future family needs he will have. He could be injured. His appetite for the game might wane. There's no guarantee that moving somewhere else for a shorter / lessor deal will work out in the longrun, no matter how admirable it might be for a man to back himself in that way.

Cantona's Collars

secman wrote: »

Just to be perfectly clear here, any hat, any colour hat, any size hat, any material, you will eat whatever hat is placed in front of you, no sauce, no salt and pepper... just hat.

Jayo can give you tips on the best way to eat one.

Mitch Connor

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Conventional wisdom that I'm not sure stacks up tbh. The examples are there throughout the years: Winston Bogarde and Daniel Sturridge two we'd be quite familiar with. Take the money, contracts in football are fully guaranteed. The contract he's signing this week are likely enough to provide for him and any current / future family needs he will have. He could be injured. His appetite for the game might wane. There's no guarantee that moving somewhere else for a shorter / lessor deal will work out in the longrun, no matter how admirable it might be for a man to back himself in that way.

everything points to him wanting out during the summer, when all those gambles would have been true. Nothing really indicates he'd be happy to rot under Mourinho

Discodog

Mitch Connor wrote: »

So, you don't think United have any intention at all of letting Jose go?

Or, if they are considering his future, you don't think they have sounded out any potential replacements?

Or, if they have sounded out potential replacements, you don't think players in the current squad were discussed?

I think that any provision, made by the board, is in case Jose walks out.

LuckyLloyd

Mitch Connor wrote: »

everything points to him wanting out during the summer, when all those gambles would have been true. Nothing really indicates he'd be happy to rot under Mourinho

Which leads back to the unpopular suggestion that he doesn't expect Mourinho to be there much longer...

Mitch Connor

Discodog wrote: »

I think that any provision, made by the board, is in case Jose walks out.

So you think the only way Jose leaves is if he walks, and the board have made no plans based on sacking him? Fair enough.

Mitch Connor

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Which leads back to the unpopular suggestion that he doesn't expect Mourinho to be there much longer...

Yeah, I think it does - and if he signs a new contract I think it may well have been indicated to him that either Mourinho is gone short term or the club will sell him for X value next summer.

Backstreet Moyes

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Yeah, I think it does - and if he signs a new contract I think it may well have been indicated to him that either Mourinho is gone short term or the club will sell him for X value next summer.

If anybody at the club indicated to Martial that Mourinho is gone soon that person should be sacked.

Mitch Connor

Nuts102 wrote: »

If anybody at the club indicated to Martial that Mourinho is gone soon that person should be sacked.

Woodward is hardly going to sack himself.

Maybe martial turns down the contract.

But surely his future and place at the club would be discussed in respect to signing a new long term contract. If he signs it, it would be because he feels there is potential for a bright future at United. Maybe that's cause he feels he could win Jose over (Shaw may have done, fir example). Maybe it's cause he reckons there's a very good chance Jose won't be there for much of a new contract.

yourdeadwright

I heard that since the World Cup began De Gea has saved 6 shots ?
2 in the World Cup and four this season ,
He is the best keeper in the world surely this is just one of them odd things where nay shot has been almost a gimme,

Adamocovic

Shaw, Rashford and Lingard the United Players called up to the England squad.

Happy for Shaw, he's been our best performer to start the campaign and showing some new determination. A huge change since him being the butt of the fat jokes when he missed out on the WC.

bangkok

Adamocovic wrote: »

Shaw, Rashford and Lingard the United Players called up to the England squad.

Happy for Shaw, he's been our best performer to start the campaign and showing some new determination. A huge change since him being the butt of the fat jokes when he missed out on the WC.

Yep, delighted for shaw. Got some amount of stick, (even from united fans on here) over the summer over a few pics the sun newspaper published.

Lord TSC

I wonder if Zidane would want the United job because everyone keeps trying to paint his achievements as just luck that he inherited such a great team.

He could,look at United with. Good core but a few gaps for him to put his stamp on. If it works, he's hailed as a genius. He restores a faded giant back to their best after numerous managers failed.

If it doesn't....well, United are already in chaos anyway and he can still point at his 3 Champions League trophies.

From his point of view, it's not win win, but the negative of failing wouldn't be super strong.

LuckyLloyd

Nuts102 wrote: »

If anybody at the club indicated to Martial that Mourinho is gone soon that person should be sacked.

Ah you don't need to say things directly to say things. And you don't know what the dressing room atmosphere or tenor around the club is internally. It might just be completely obvious to everyone that he's a busted flush and no one needs to say anything.

Liam McPoyle

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Ah you don't need to say things directly to say things. And you don't know what the dressing room atmosphere or tenor around the club is internally. It might just be completely obvious to everyone that he's a busted flush and no one needs to say anything.

Surprised its taken one of you this long to trot out that one tbh.

Will I Am Not

Business Cat wrote: »

Surprised its taken one of you this long to trot out that one tbh.

I’m patiently waiting on the ‘Are Mourinho and United done’ thread

Liam McPoyle

Will I Am Not wrote: »

I’m patiently waiting on the ‘Are Mourinho and United done’ thread

I believe threads of that nature are against the charter, so if we lose on Sunday, I expect to see one.

Cantona's Collars

Business Cat wrote: »

Surprised its taken one of you this long to trot out that one tbh.

I thought that was considered as one of those inflammatory terms that was seen to be used just to get a rise out of posters.

StringerBell

Will I Am Not wrote: »

I’m patiently waiting on the ‘Are Mourinho and United done’ thread

I don't think your allowed name your thread that, hence the slipping it into a post.

A check raise attempt in some ways one could think.

SlickRic

Will I Am Not wrote: »

I’m patiently waiting on the ‘Are Mourinho and United done’ thread

one has already been deleted this week, so you've already missed it.

Discodog

Mitch Connor wrote: »

So you think the only way Jose leaves is if he walks, and the board have made no plans based on sacking him? Fair enough.

Nope. There will come a point where, if we continue to lose, Jose will be gone. But the Board can't back Jose & then begin discussions with Zidane - Jose has a lot of contacts he would soon know.

I suspect that we need a manager far more than Jose needs a job.

LuckyLloyd

Cantona's Collars wrote: »

I thought that was considered as one of those inflammatory terms that was seen to be used just to get a rise out of posters.

What? It's a fairly common term. I wasn't using it to get a rise out of anyone.

The_Kew_Tour

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

What? It's a fairly common term. I wasn't using it to get a rise out of anyone.

Rat Trap you've been caught!

Sorry got itchy fingers

jayo26

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Ah you don't need to say things directly to say things. And you don't know what the dressing room atmosphere or tenor around the club is internally. It might just be completely obvious to everyone that he's a busted flush and no one needs to say anything.

Your dead right there Lloyd couldn't agree more with you. You can say things in a roundabout way and try get away with them but it still can't be hidden from a wise old owl.

Well said tho really enjoyed your posts lately your valued as always.

yabadabado

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

What? It's a fairly common term. I wasn't using it to get a rise out of anyone.

Agreed .
It's just a descriptive term like saying someone is a serial loser.

LuckyLloyd

yabadabado wrote: »

Agreed .
It's just a descriptive term like saying someone is a serial loser.

And you can debate that if you don't agree it stands up to scrutiny.

Mitch Connor

Discodog wrote: »

Nope. There will come a point where, if we continue to lose, Jose will be gone. But the Board can't back Jose & then begin discussions with Zidane - Jose has a lot of contacts he would soon know.

I suspect that we need a manager far more than Jose needs a job.

United were speaking to Jose while LVG was employed.