Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2018/2019 [Mod note 31-Aug-18]

billyhead

Drumpot wrote: »

Coutihno and Ronaldo. Two players who were angling for moves away from united and Liverpool long Before they got their moves. They were professionals and still performed for their clubs.. It is possible to want to move clubs and still do your f**king job...

Problem isn’t Jose. Isn’t tactics. Isn’t the club. Isn’t the wages. Isnt the contract... So what are we left with? The problem is the player. He banked on Jose losing it and giving him an Excuse to walk. Jose makes him captain. Jose publically won’t criticize him and even praises his performance. And the club backs the manager..... Pogbas issues are his actions own and to be frank while I think he’s a top player I wouldn’t be sorry to see the back of him. He’s doing more damage then good at this stage....

True. If hes not 100% committed or in the right frame of mind get rid. No player is or ever will be bigger then the club.

Ilovethe bonesofyou

#Pogbad

bangkok

MrMac84 wrote: »

Where Has reported the Pogba comments other then those tweets today ?

I posted the link to it earlier

I've been doing some digging, I think the media have mis-reported what he actually said. Been trying to get full confirmation as basically the interview came from German TV so had to be translated. But prior to earlier reports more info released on the accuracy of what was originally reported.

To note: Not defending Pogba here but just pissed at the media yet again. Ultimately Pogba should be keeping his mouth shut but regardless Sky are gone ta ****.

This is what Sky said;

https://twitter.com/utdreport/status/1037668018288029696?s=19

This is what he actually said;

https://twitter.com/allforunited/status/1037780702870347776?s=19

IMO the fact they changed it to say months skews this story and generates more discontent among fans. It's exactly the type of thing the media thrives on now. And it's got it's rewards by getting those clicks.

secman

bangkok wrote: »

abysmal me hole...

he was nomintated for our player of the month for August and was motm in first game of the season

But his previous 49 games were utter crap..sauntering around, was really phissed off when that tossed won a world cup medal.

secman

Pogba having a laugh ... " I always give 100% to United " can't quite work it out , is he a bit thick or doesn't give toss. He's actually forgotten that he has told us that he didn't give it all for whatever reason a couple of times this season already !!!

Hopefully we get a ridiculous high offer for him, another Veron.

fatherted1969

I know I'm like a broken record at times on this but the scouting of players needs to be seriously looked at. We're buying players who go out of form for months at a time, players that seem to have huge difficulties in playing 50+ games in a season and some seem to be very weak mentally. Lindelof, Herrera, Martial, Di Maria, Pogba, Shaw, Baily and Schnederlin. These were players for absolute fortunes at the time but the least little thing throws them off in games. Our scouting doesn't seem very good imo. Surely months and months of watching a player before a bit was made would highlight some inadequacy in their game. It beggars belief to me

jimmytwotimes 2013

fatherted1969 wrote: »

I know I'm like a broken record at times on this but the scouting of players needs to be seriously looked at. We're buying players who go out of form for months at a time, players that seem to have huge difficulties in playing 50+ games in a season and some seem to be very weak mentally. Lindelof, Herrera, Martial, Di Maria, Pogba, Shaw, Baily and Schnederlin. These were players for absolute fortunes at the time but the least little thing throws them off in games. Our scouting doesn't seem very good imo. Surely months and months of watching a player before a bit was made would highlight some inadequacy in their game. It beggars belief to me

Agee 100%, our scouting has been poor and buying big names past their sell-by date seemed to be a Woodward thing but maybe United are changing that approach now.

bangkok

jimmytwotimes 2013 wrote: »

Agee 100%, our scouting has been poor and buying big names past their sell-by date seemed to be a Woodward thing but maybe United are changing that approach now.

Woodward was buying players that the manager at the time wanted.

Yes he is changing that approach now it seems not going for older players that the manager wants and he is still getting flak for it.

Lose-lose situation for him

S.M.B.

Ribalta was supposed to solve our scouting issues but that didn't last too long. Turns out he wanted to sign Can and Goretzka on free transfers this summer.

bangkok

secman wrote: »

But his previous 49 games were utter crap..sauntering around, was really phissed off when that tossed won a world cup medal.

Absolute guff talk."49 games of utter crap"

man utd player of the month twice last year

nullzero

Discodog wrote: »

You have to wonder how much Pogba's attitude is affecting players like Martial.
Pogba wasn't like most signings. He knew the club so well.

I'd say having a senior player who has won the World Cup for your country having a tantrum is going to affect your attitude at your club.

Pogba felt he should have walked into our first team as a teenager, at a time when we had Paul Scholes (who was exponentially more talented than pogba) still winning titles and walking into champions league finals.
Ferguson perhaps made a mistake in selling him but from what I can remember the player was agitating for a move and being generally disruptive at that time.
It's hard to imagine Ferguson taking too kindly to that type of nonsense from an unproven player.
Ultimately Pogba went to Juventus at a time when no club in Italy could compete with them, he did well but he isn't the Brian Robson or Roy Keane type player United need at the moment, he doesn't fight for the team, he isn't a tough lad either physically or psychologically.
The problem for us is while Barcelona want him they won't find it easy to pay for him plus his behaviour right now won't go unnoticed either we could be stuck with this dud and his media circus for a few years.
If we're not sacking Jose we need to get rid of Pogba because he in my opinion isn't helping the teams frame of mind and is possibly contributing to our recent form.

bangkok

nullzero wrote: »

I'd say having a senior player who has won the World Cup for your country having a tantrum is going to affect your attitude at your club.

Pogba felt he should have walked into our first team as a teenager, at a time when we had Paul Scholes (who was exponentially more talented than pogba) still winning titles and walking into champions league finals.
Ferguson perhaps made a mistake in selling him but from what I can remember the player was agitating for a move and being generally disruptive at that time.
It's hard to imagine Ferguson taking too kindly to that type of nonsense from an unproven player.
Ultimately Pogba went to Juventus at a time when no club in Italy could compete with them, he did well but he isn't the Brian Robson or Roy Keane type player United need at the moment, he doesn't fight for the team, he isn't a tough lad either physically or psychologically.
The problem for us is while Barcelona want him they won't find it easy to pay for him plus his behaviour right now won't go unnoticed either we could be stuck with this dud and his media circus for a few years.
If we're not sacking Jose we need to get rid of Pogba because he in my opinion isn't helping the teams frame of mind and is possibly contributing to our recent form.

Ferguson didnt sell him, left on a free

Ferguson wanted to keep him

Ferguson called his agent a "sh1t bag"

nullzero

bangkok wrote: »

Ferguson didnt sell him, left on a free

Ferguson wanted to keep him

Ferguson called his agent a "sh1t bag"

Sell him let him go, not much difference for a payer of his age.
I don't doubt Ferguson wanted him to stay as he had potential but there were rumors of whinging from pogba wanting to be fast tracked into what was then a successful side.
Pogba's agent worked for Pogba, I would argue he was saying then what Pogba is saying himself now.
This quote is accredited to Ferguson after Pogba joined Juve ;"It is disappointing. I don't think he showed us any respect at all, to be honest. I'm quite happy that if they [footballers] carry on that way, they're probably better doing it away from us".
Pogba isn't the player this club needs at this time. We could have absorbed his nonsense during Ferguson's tenure but he's a disruptive influence now and needs to knuckle down and perform or leave.

Adamocovic

nullzero wrote: »

Sell him let him go, not much difference for a payer of his age.
I don't doubt Ferguson wanted him to stay as he had potential but there were rumors of whinging from pogba wanting to be fast tracked into what was then a successful side.
Pogba's agent worked for Pogba, I would argue he was saying then what Pogba is saying himself now.
This quote is accredited to Ferguson after Pogba joined Juve ;"It is disappointing. I don't think he showed us any respect at all, to be honest. I'm quite happy that if they [footballers] carry on that way, they're probably better doing it away from us".
Pogba isn't the player this club needs at this time. We could have absorbed his nonsense during Ferguson's tenure but he's a disruptive influence now and needs to knuckle down and perform or leave.

I would say there is a difference between having a player refuse an offer and leaving on the free, and selling them yourself.

Also Ferguson openly admitted they were eager to hold onto Pogba. He said so much in his book a little while back. Yes in the aftermath of a player leaving he will say the above quote but he then went on to say:

“We had Paul under a three-year contract, and it had a one-year renewal option which we were eager to sign."

Most football fans dislike Mino, he's an agent who makes the player feel like they're family and then pulls their strings. He has had poor relationships and fallouts with many clubs by convincing players whats "best" for them. Maybe Pogba did want to leave, plausible but I imagine the manner of his exit was orchestrated by Mino.

Drumpot

bangkok wrote: »

Ferguson didnt sell him, left on a free

Ferguson wanted to keep him

Ferguson called his agent a "sh1t bag"

Ferguson didn’t want to keep him if he was going to make demands that were above the quality that he has shown to that point.

People keep saying it, his agent works for him. The best defense you could make is that Pogba is thick and his agent walks all over him. Otherwise he’s been a horrible investment for the club on the pitch. I can think of where 100mil spent elsewhere would of made this squad so much stronger.

You can pick out good Pogba performances because they are rare and it’s almost “jaeusus I forgot he could actually make us so much better” moments where we want to believe this is the moment his career can kick on and we can put things behind him...

When asked about his united figure “I’m totally committed to man united and want to win the league and champions league at this great club”. Your relationship with your manager “Jose is one of the worlds top coaches. I’ve struggled to adapt to some of the things he has asked of me but I’m working hard to do my best for the team”....

He’s great at promoting his hair cut stuff so it shouldn’t be too hard learning a few basic lines. Why? For the club. For the team. The constant speculation is not good for united on any level. Pogba is all about him and to be frank I want him gone unless he knuckles down and starts being a part of the team/club instead of Pogba INC....

Drumpot

Adamocovic wrote: »

Most football fans dislike Mino, he's an agent who makes the player feel like they're family and then pulls their strings. He has had poor relationships and fallouts with many clubs by convincing players whats "best" for them. Maybe Pogba did want to leave, plausible but I imagine the manner of his exit was orchestrated by Mino.

You can’t pawn off a players actions on their agent. If a person was treating you like crap, it wouldn’t be ok if somebody said “well they have a friend who influences them to be like that”. Being a dick is being a dick. Maybe when he was younger it was more understandable but he’s a man now and needs to be held accountable for his actions and those that he let’s do in his name.

I go back to a point I made awhile ago. It’s very interesting that two of the greatest managers of the last 30 years have both had issues getting the best out of Pogba. I cant get my head around how or why people will look or blame every reason a player is not settled or performing other then the player themselves....

Good start for Giggsy last night,we were rubbish!

Adamocovic

Drumpot wrote: »

You can’t pawn off a players actions on their agent. If a person was treating you like crap, it wouldn’t be ok if somebody said “well they have a friend who influences them to be like that”. Being a dick is being a dick. Maybe when he was younger it was more understandable but he’s a man now and needs to be held accountable for his actions and those that he let’s do in his name.

I go back to a point I made awhile ago. It’s very interesting that two of the greatest managers of the last 30 years have both had issues getting the best out of Pogba. I cant get my head around how or why people will look or blame every reason a player is not settled or performing other then the player themselves....

I'm not arguing that Pogba should receive none of the blame, but I definitely do not agree with the idea some have that "the agent works for him" in an effort to mask Mino's behavior simply as what he's being told to do.

Like I've said here during the timee I didn't want Pogba to rejoin, like many here, didn't like Mino, at the time mainly due to Fergie's comments and didn't like the price tag. But even looking into his career and interviews with people who have previously dealt with Raiola there is a recurring theme.

Yes Pogba is an adult, but like I said Raiola creates relationships with players from a young age where they befriend him and believe he has nothing but their best interests in mind. They listen to his advice and what he believe is best for them, when in reality it's what's most profitable. Yes he get's his clients money but I firmly believe he has a huge say on their decisions. So while I agree Pogba is responsible for his actions, it's also a case of him receiving bad advice from a person he trusts too much.

And on the matter of two of the best managers struggling to get the best out of him, is Fergie the other manager you are referring to? Hardly say he struggled to get the best out of him. He was very good in our youth setup but was like 17-18 when he had spontaneous appearances in the first team. How can it be said Fergie failed to get the best out of him? He left before Fergie had a chance to.

Maybe it's not the same for everyone but I definitely put part of the blame for his failure to settle and consistently perform on Pogba, but not all of it.

bangkok

Drumpot wrote: »

You can’t pawn off a players actions on their agent. If a person was treating you like crap, it wouldn’t be ok if somebody said “well they have a friend who influences them to be like that”. Being a dick is being a dick. Maybe when he was younger it was more understandable but he’s a man now and needs to be held accountable for his actions and those that he let’s do in his name.

I go back to a point I made awhile ago. It’s very interesting that two of the greatest managers of the last 30 years have both had issues getting the best out of Pogba. I cant get my head around how or why people will look or blame every reason a player is not settled or performing other then the player themselves....

Pogba was aged 16 when he joined united and left at 18. Not sure really how you can say fergie never got best out of pogba when he was playing in youth team at the time...

To counter that, how did conte and dechamps both get the best out of him?

Sanchez was world class at arsenal, came to utd and has been utter garbage.

Martial looked like the best young player on the planet under van gaal, looks like a lost boy under jose.

Rashford the most exciting young player in england under van gaal, playing with no confidence now.

How Soon Is Now

Said it once and I'll say it again **** Pogba. Two hands would cover the amount of times he's turned up for the club he should never of came back and I wish he didn't!

Ya I was delighted when we originally got him back and there's been flashs of what he can do but ultimately he's been a waste of space a player half his price and wage would come in and do a better job. He was the most expensive player in the world at one point what a joke!

Off to Barca next summer with tales to follow of how there a real club and he's always wanted to play for them....

Hopefully a few more wasters follow him.

Rossi IRL

If Pogba is sold then who will ye turn on next?

Selling Pogba isn't going to fix how we play.

If we were in a good position winning things and playing well and if he was the weak link then sure sell him. However we are playing **** and he is far far from being a weak link in our team, probably in our top 3 players.

threein99

Rossi IRL wrote: »

If Pogba is sold then who will ye turn on next?

Selling Pogba isn't going to fix how we play.

If we were in a good position winning things and playing well and if he was the weak link then sure sell him. However we are playing **** and he is far far from being a weak link in our team, probably in our top 3 players.

Nope it wouldn't, but I would welcome not having to listen to anymore of the crap he and his parasite of an agent are spouting on a regular basis.

Loafing Oaf

Rossi IRL wrote: »

Selling Pogba isn't going to fix how we play.

no but it might be a start. he doesn't have a natural place in mourinho's formation, and as long as the two of them are at the club there'll always be an element of shoehorning him into the team.

Drumpot

Adamocovic wrote: »

I'm not arguing that Pogba should receive none of the blame, but I definitely do not agree with the idea some have that "the agent works for him" in an effort to mask Mino's behavior simply as what he's being told to do.

Like I've said here during the timee I didn't want Pogba to rejoin, like many here, didn't like Mino, at the time mainly due to Fergie's comments and didn't like the price tag. But even looking into his career and interviews with people who have previously dealt with Raiola there is a recurring theme.

Yes Pogba is an adult, but like I said Raiola creates relationships with players from a young age where they befriend him and believe he has nothing but their best interests in mind. They listen to his advice and what he believe is best for them, when in reality it's what's most profitable. Yes he get's his clients money but I firmly believe he has a huge say on their decisions. So while I agree Pogba is responsible for his actions, it's also a case of him receiving bad advice from a person he trusts too much.

And on the matter of two of the best managers struggling to get the best out of him, is Fergie the other manager you are referring to? Hardly say he struggled to get the best out of him. He was very good in our youth setup but was like 17-18 when he had spontaneous appearances in the first team. How can it be said Fergie failed to get the best out of him? He left before Fergie had a chance to.

Maybe it's not the same for everyone but I definitely put part of the blame for his failure to settle and consistently perform on Pogba, but not all of it.

bangkok wrote: »

Pogba was aged 16 when he joined united and left at 18. Not sure really how you can say fergie never got best out of pogba when he was playing in youth team at the time...

To counter that, how did conte and dechamps both get the best out of him?

Sanchez was world class at arsenal, came to utd and has been utter garbage.

Martial looked like the best young player on the planet under van gaal, looks like a lost boy under jose.

Rashford the most exciting young player in england under van gaal, playing with no confidence now.

Seriously lads, youre just excusing Pogba again and putting it back on the coaches.

I never said SAF or Jose couldn't get the best out of him, I said its an odd coincidence that he wasn't able to perform to a high standard with either of these coaches. Ferguson and Jose dominated the teams they managed, I wouldn't say the same about Conte or Deschamps. But at that, the mere fact you interpreted as "how can you say SAF didn't get the most out of him" shows you cant actually grasp any scenario where Pogba is the centre of the problem. That's what I am saying. Hes the problem, not Jose, Not SAF. If he was good enough as an 18 year old SAF would of given him the contract and time he demanded but his attitude was wrong as it still is..

If anything the fact its a "he can work with this coach by not that" shows a deficiency in his character. The fact he cant perform unless his ego or his agents pockets are lined the way they want is a deficiency in his character.

I don't understand what picking out Rashford or individuals who are not performing under Jose. I remember Giggs having a few wobbly seasons in his early 20s and nobody blamed SAF. Giggs put the head down , worked hard and always improved his game or altered it as needed. . He had savage footballing character which embodied the hard work of SAF winning squads... Pogba doesn't have that work ethic . .

And why are we always talking about Pogba ? Hmm ? The last player who had a "why always me" complex was Bolatelli. A different kind of temperament, but none the less a player who drama followed. I cannot understand any United fan defending Pogba.

I cant understand anybody saying his employee (Raoila) is somehow working independently and doing things that Pogba is not fine with . . I cant understand how anybody thinks Pogbas 27 months at United has been hindered because Pogba hasn't been given every opportunity possible to flourish. Even Deshamps told him to work with Jose and that he will make him a better player . . But no, Pogba isn't interested in learning new parts to his game or putting in a shift for the team, like people who defend him hes happy to blame everybody else for his form and show up selectively (like a f**k you to Jose).

Drumpot

Rossi IRL wrote: »

If Pogba is sold then who will ye turn on next?

Selling Pogba isn't going to fix how we play.

If we were in a good position winning things and playing well and if he was the weak link then sure sell him. However we are playing **** and he is far far from being a weak link in our team, probably in our top 3 players.

United sold Ronaldo and got on fine. Pogba's ability and performances for United don't match up. He can own games, would be superb if he moved to another Euro top club and has looked great for France. But how long can he not play that way for united before we start asking if hes not just Di Maria 2? Its easy to blame Jose, but I see a manager trying to make it work. Made him captain, has tried to accommodate his preferred position but whenever Pogba was asked to play a more defencive role for the team (when injuries hit) he was muck. He could do the exact same defencive role for France but wasn't arsed for united or Jose.

If United got a player even as good as Matic as a replacement, they would already have a more consistent , reliable player who who would add some level of reliability to the first team. Hell look at how good Fellani was at the weekend. A player putting in that sort of workrate is worth more to the team then an inconsistent player like Pogba constantly grabbing attention for the wrong reasons. .

Maybe the team cant settle down because Pogba is a big problem. Maybe everything that surrounds that player is toxic and part of the problem was that the club didn't want to sell and the manager is being forced to appease Pogabs every desire to try and make it work . .

I cant see any scenario where Pogba is not at the centre of the problem.

Rossi IRL

Drumpot wrote: »

United sold Ronaldo and got on fine.

Weather we like to hear or or not, we have been in a decline since Ronaldo left.

I wouldn't call that being fine.

We got into back to back champions league finals then. Winning one of them.

An FA Cup win and finishing 2nd by 18 or whatever points is considered a good season these days. Hardly getting on fine.

bangkok

Drumpot wrote: »

Seriously lads, youre just excusing Pogba again and putting it back on the coaches.

I never said SAF or Jose couldn't get the best out of him, I said its an odd coincidence that he wasn't able to perform to a high standard with either of these coaches. Ferguson and Jose dominated the teams they managed, I wouldn't say the same about Conte or Deschamps. But at that, the mere fact you interpreted as "how can you say SAF didn't get the most out of him" shows you cant actually grasp any scenario where Pogba is the centre of the problem. That's what I am saying. Hes the problem, not Jose, Not SAF. If he was good enough as an 18 year old SAF would of given him the contract and time he demanded but his attitude was wrong as it still is..

If anything the fact its a "he can work with this coach by not that" shows a deficiency in his character. The fact he cant perform unless his ego or his agents pockets are lined the way they want is a deficiency in his character.

I don't understand what picking out Rashford or individuals who are not performing under Jose. I remember Giggs having a few wobbly seasons in his early 20s and nobody blamed SAF. Giggs put the head down , worked hard and always improved his game or altered it as needed. . He had savage footballing character which embodied the hard work of SAF winning squads... Pogba doesn't have that work ethic . .

And why are we always talking about Pogba ? Hmm ? The last player who had a "why always me" complex was Bolatelli. A different kind of temperament, but none the less a player who drama followed. I cannot understand any United fan defending Pogba.

I cant understand anybody saying his employee (Raoila) is somehow working independently and doing things that Pogba is not fine with . . I cant understand how anybody thinks Pogbas 27 months at United has been hindered because Pogba hasn't been given every opportunity possible to flourish. Even Deshamps told him to work with Jose and that he will make him a better player . . But no, Pogba isn't interested in learning new parts to his game or putting in a shift for the team, like people who defend him hes happy to blame everybody else for his form and show up selectively (like a f**k you to Jose).

Ferguson/united did offer him a contract though, dont be changing history saying fergie didnt want to keep him when its a fact that he did want to keep him AND they did offer him a new contract

pjohnson

Pobga just isn't worth all the shíte that comes with him.

Drumpot

Rossi IRL wrote: »

Weather we like to hear or or not, we have been in a decline since Ronaldo left.

I wouldn't call that being fine.

We got into back to back champions league finals then. Winning one of them.

An FA Cup win and finishing 2nd by 18 or whatever points is considered a good season these days. Hardly getting on fine.

Ronaldo wanted to leave the club the season before and still helped us win the champions league. When he left he was possibly the best player in the world who was performing for United.



Pogab has shown an unwillingless to perform to his level while clearly not wanting to remain at the club. .

When Ronaldo left there was no replacing what he gave to the team. When Pogba leaves United wont miss what he wasn't giving to us . .

bangkok

Pogba had 6 goals and 12 assists for us last season.

Won player of the month twice.

Went onto win a world cup with france in the summer.

The way some are talking about him now you would swear he was Bebe

Drumpot

bangkok wrote: »

Ferguson/united did offer him a contract though, dont be changing history saying fergie didnt want to keep him when its a fact that he did want to keep him AND they did offer him a new contract

I never said SAF didn't want to keep him. Stop putting words in my mouth.
He offered him a contract and Pogba wanted more. More playtime, possibly more money . .

Pogba wasn't happy with working with the greatest manager of his era. A manager who had shown a superb ability to coach even the most troubled players to reach their potential (Rooney - Grannies at Everton). .

No Pogba wanted MORE . . He wasn't willing to work with SAF and he wasn't bothered at the time that United were challenging for League and Champions league regularly.

Ultimately Ferguson could of offered Pogba what he wanted but didn't think he was worth it. Ferguson could of held onto Pogba but didn't think he was worth the hassle. As I have said Ferguson has shown a great ability to work with Troubled players and harness youngsters ability.

pjohnson

bangkok wrote: »

Pogba had 6 goals and 12 assists for us last season.

Won player of the month twice.

Went onto win a world cup with france in the summer.

The way some are talking about him now you would swear he was Bebe

I still remember when you posted that sky link of Pogba saying he wants to be judged for his performance not just his goals and assists. Suppose its a good thing you avoid addressing the performances like the plague.

FutureGuy

Pogba can fcuk right off to wherever he wants to go and I won’t lose a wink of sleep over it.

My only concern is that it sends a message that we cannot keep world class talent.

Lord TSC

Drumpot wrote: »

I never said SAF didn't want to keep him. Stop putting words in my mouth.

You'd be as well trying to argue with an actual scarecrow in a field tbh. You'd probably end up dealing with less straw men then....

TitianGerm

pjohnson wrote: »

I still remember when you posted that sky link of Pogba saying he wants to be judged for his performance not just his goals and assists. Suppose its a good thing you avoid addressing the performances like the plague.

He only used that before Pogba picked up a few assists in the last few months of the season.

Couthino moved in January and finished with similar stats for Pogba whole season between the CL and PL.

Pogba - 2331 minutes played, 6 goals and 11 assists.
Couthino - 1356 minutes played, 11 goals and 6 assists.

I'm trying to think who else to compare him to? Silva, Eriksen and KDB? All played CM last season.

bangkok

TitianGerm wrote: »

He only used that before Pogba picked up a few assists in the last few months of the season.

Couthino moved in January and finished with similar stats for Pogba whole season between the CL and PL.

Pogba - 2331 minutes played, 6 goals and 11 assists.
Couthino - 1356 minutes played, 11 goals and 6 assists.

I'm trying to think who else to compare him to? Silva, Eriksen and KDB? All played CM last season.

How about compare him to other united players who seem to get a free ride when pogba takes all the flak

TitianGerm

bangkok wrote: »

How about compare him to other united players who seem to get a free ride when pogba takes all the flak

Why can't you compare him to the other top teams CMs? Is it because he hasn't performed to the same standard as they have?

DM_7

Ah ffs, bring back the visitors at this rate

Drumpot

bangkok wrote: »

Pogba had 6 goals and 12 assists for us last season.

Won player of the month twice.

Went onto win a world cup with france in the summer.

The way some are talking about him now you would swear he was Bebe

bangkok

TitianGerm wrote: »

Why can't you compare him to the other top teams CMs? Is it because he hasn't performed to the same standard as they have?

Do a comparison so with dembele, jordan henderson, gundogan, ramsey and fabregas. Players who more or less played same position as him last season all from the top clubs

TitianGerm

bangkok wrote: »

Do a comparison so with dembele, jordan henderson, gundogan, ramsey and fabregas. Players who more or less played same position as him last season all from the top clubs

Pogba played as a DM now because that's where Henderson played last season and Dembele played deep in the vast majority of games with Alli and Erikson ahead of him Gundogan also ended up sitting quite a bit deeper.

Pogba was United's most attack minded midfielder so not fair to compare him to them but if you want. Not going to include the CL because Arsenal were not there.

Ramsey - 1838 minutes, 7 goals, 8 assists.
Gundogan - 1533 minutes, 4 goals, 1 assist
Fabregas - 2183 minutes, 2 goals, 4 assists.

Worth noting that Fabregas has 55 key passes more than Pogba.

Rossi IRL

Some stats comparison from the league last season. Sorted per 90 mins as some played less game than others.


http://www2.squawka.com/comparison-matrix#premier_league/2017/2018/paul_pogba/819/819/2710/0/p|premier_league/2017/2018/david_silva/819/819/308/0/p|premier_league/2017/2018/kevin_de_bruyne/819/819/2431/37/p|premier_league/2017/2018/aaron_ramsey/819/819/377/0/p|premier_league/2017/2018/mousa_dembélé/819/819/493/47/p#total_forward_passes/pass_completion/assists/goals_scored/interceptions/fouls_suffered/clearances#90

Mitch Connor

Beyond stats, what we see is a player that hasn't dominated many games, hasn't lead us, which is what we are looking for.

It could be he's just a bad fit for what the manager wants, I dunno.

I want it to work, so bad, but we aren't seeing it, whatever the reason.

TitianGerm

Rossi IRL wrote: »

Some stats comparison from the league last season. Sorted per 90 mins as some played less game than others.


http://www2.squawka.com/comparison-matrix#premier_league/2017/2018/paul_pogba/819/819/2710/0/p|premier_league/2017/2018/david_silva/819/819/308/0/p|premier_league/2017/2018/kevin_de_bruyne/819/819/2431/37/p|premier_league/2017/2018/aaron_ramsey/819/819/377/0/p|premier_league/2017/2018/mousa_dembélé/819/819/493/47/p#total_forward_passes/pass_completion/assists/goals_scored/interceptions/fouls_suffered/clearances#90

Key passes is a good start to include as well. Not sure about fouls suffered though, doesn't really tell you much about the player.

Adamocovic

Drumpot wrote: »

Seriously lads, youre just excusing Pogba again and putting it back on the coaches.

Not everything in the post is aimed at me so responding to those parts. Firstly am I not able to hold the opinion that there are many factors which have led to his disappointing spell? Your post makes it sound like I've excused him of all blame and am just pointing fingers at Jose, which I'm not.

My quote post said:

Maybe it's not the same for everyone but I definitely put part of the blame for his failure to settle and consistently perform on Pogba, but not all of it.

I've acknowledged Pogba is to blame for part of his failure with us, but don't agree that his attitude and effort is the sole reason it hasn't worked. Didn't even mention coaches. So disagree with my opinion all you want, at least my actual one, and I'll disagree with the notion that the only thing that has been the factor in how this has played out so far has been Pogba.

I never said SAF or Jose couldn't get the best out of him, I said its an odd coincidence that he wasn't able to perform to a high standard with either of these coaches.

Your post literally said that!

It’s very interesting that two of the greatest managers of the last 30 years have both had issues getting the best out of Pogba

So I wont delve into the rest of that part where you accuse me of not being able to grasp the situation and I misinterpreted it somehow because of that. Something I categorical disagree with.

I cant understand anybody saying his employee (Raoila) is somehow working independently and doing things that Pogba is not fine with

Again making things up. I have never claimed Pogba is sitting by idly while Mino calls all the shots. I stated that with Raoila's history and record he certainly has a say. I've explained many times already today about how he works, earns their trust, becomes like family and then is their trusted advisor. So people who belittle his say in any decision I don't agree with, he's his agent.

Also never said Pogba is not fine with the decisions, I said that he is putting his trust in the wrong advisor, someone who will get him a lot of money but ultimately when he looks to get the "best" for his clients it's related in getting him a payday. Hence why he has a history of convincing his players to transfer, he gets a big cut.

I'm all for having a respectful debate, but the things you've aimed at me in that post aren't true reflections of what I said, or what had previously been posted.

Rossi IRL

TitianGerm wrote: »

Key passes is a good start to include as well. Not sure about fouls suffered though, doesn't really tell you much about the player.

Probably should of included key passes..

Included fouls suffered to show he gets targeted by the opposition, which also shows he needs to pass it sooner which is clear to see

TitianGerm

Rossi IRL wrote: »

Probably should of included key passes..

Included fouls suffered to show he gets targeted by the opposition, which also shows he needs to pass it sooner which is clear to see

He's gotten fouled an awful lot from holding onto the ball and if he released earlier the foul wouldn't have occurred.

Is there a stat to show how many times you've lost possession?

Minderbinder

Nobody should need to rely on stats to judge a player. If you can't see how mediocre Pogba has been the majority of the time for United then there's no point in discussing football with you because you don't know much about it.

Adamocovic

Minderbinder wrote: »

Nobody should need to rely on stats to judge a player. If you can't see how mediocre Pogba has been the majority of the time for United then there's no point in discussing football with you because you don't know much about it.

Not involved with the use of the stats but I always jump up at a chance to reply to these sort of comments.

Stats are used to support people's opinions of a player. It's simple. A reference. Yes they don't paint to whole picture but opinions are subjective and hard to challenge or defend without some sort of proof, other than I saw it with my own eyes.

I don't see why some fans hate stats. They definitely like I said aren't to be solely relied on but so many, especially here, are dismissive of them.

Also to claim someone isn't worth time to discuss football with, because their opinion differs to your own, comes across very arrogant.