Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2018/2019 [Mod note 31-Aug-18]

Atlas_IRL

Would like to see his birth cert :P:P

bangkok

'Boateng rang Jose to reject Man Utd'

http://www.skysports.com/share/11495779

yourdeadwright

Will I Am Not wrote: »

43 international goals by the age of 25. By the time he retires he could easily have 3 million.

He must wreck his own head, he is an absolute goal machine until it come to big games for club and country for that matter,
Surely he just needs a break like two winners on the bounce in big games because he really does have everything to be Word class but he just doesn't score in the big games,

bucketybuck

yourdeadwright wrote: »

He must wreck his own head, he is an absolute goal machine until it come to big games for club and country for that matter,
Surely he just needs a break like two winners on the bounce in big games because he really does have everything to be Word class but he just doesn't score in the big games,

Haven't heard the old "big game" myth in a while.

yourdeadwright

bucketybuck wrote: »

yourdeadwright wrote: »

He must wreck his own head, he is an absolute goal machine until it come to big games for club and country for that matter,
Surely he just needs a break like two winners on the bounce in big games because he really does have everything to be Word class but he just doesn't score in the big games,

Haven't heard the old "big game" myth in a while.

Not really a myth is it ?
Look at his record v the top 6 , miss v Spurs recently, 
World cup bangs them in in the group stage v the minnows, then doesn;lt score v England or the knockout stages
Champions league scores a few in group v minnows then was woeful against Sevilla in both legs last year,  scores right at the end when its 2-0 and nothing to play for .
He's a goal machine v poor side's no question but he does struggle in big games it has to be mental and I think something he can over come

eagle eye

yourdeadwright wrote:

He must wreck his own head, he is an absolute goal machine until it come to big games for club and country for that matter, Surely he just needs a break like two winners on the bounce in big games because he really does have everything to be Word class but he just doesn't score in the big games,

Inconsistency is his problem.

yourdeadwright

bucketybuck wrote: »

yourdeadwright wrote: »

He must wreck his own head, he is an absolute goal machine until it come to big games for club and country for that matter,
Surely he just needs a break like two winners on the bounce in big games because he really does have everything to be Word class but he just doesn't score in the big games,

Haven't heard the old "big game" myth in a while.

He has 15 goals in his last 16 games ,
Scored against Sauid , Egypt, Costa Rica, Panama, Tunisa, Burnley, Brighton, Scotland ,Iceland
Failed to score , England (2times), Japan.,Brazil , France, Spurs , Leicester
Its quite clear he struggles in bigger games, Japan are poo but that was World cup knock outs,
Last season up to the last game in Feb he had 1 goal v the Prem top 10 ., not sure how he went after that,

bucketybuck

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Not really a myth is it ?
Look at his record v the top 6 , miss v Spurs recently, 

This argument has been and gone before. Lukakus record was compared to Kane, Aguero, Costa and a few other of the top strikers, and surprise surprise his record against the top 6 was better than any of them.

Goals are less frequent against the bigger and better teams, all strikers score less in the bigger games, there is nothing else to it.

yourdeadwright

bucketybuck wrote: »

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Not really a myth is it ?
Look at his record v the top 6 , miss v Spurs recently, 

This argument has been and gone before. Lukakus record was compared to Kane, Aguero, Costa and a few other of the top strikers, and surprise surprise his record against the top 6 was better than any of them.

Goals are less frequent against the bigger and better teams, all strikers score less in the bigger games, there is nothing else to it.

He has one goal v the top six since he joined United,

yourdeadwright

bucketybuck wrote: »

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Not really a myth is it ?
Look at his record v the top 6 , miss v Spurs recently, 

This argument has been and gone before. Lukakus record was compared to Kane, Aguero, Costa and a few other of the top strikers, and surprise surprise his record against the top 6 was better than any of them.

Goals are less frequent against the bigger and better teams, all strikers score less in the bigger games, there is nothing else to it.

Since 2014 goals v top 6 

Vardy 23
Aguero 21
Kane 18
Mane 15

Rom 5

The above is up till March last season, Don't think Rom scored since that the others all have,

Minderbinder

It's unreal the amount of ex-pros telling Rashford he needs to leave United. Every time he plays for England someone is saying it. Jamie Carragher is the latest to add to Alan Shearer, Ian Wright, Thierry Henry, Dennis Wise, Teddy Sheringham, Jamie Redknapp, Jermaine Jenas and probably more. Sky have a serious agenda as they're always asking the question. 
Rashford has 126 appearances and 32 goals in the 31 months since he made his debut. Harry Kane probably should have left Tottenham too I suppose.

yourdeadwright

Minderbinder wrote: »

It's unreal the amount of ex-pros telling Rashford he needs to leave United. Every time he plays for England someone is saying it. Jamie Carragher is the latest to add to Alan Shearer, Ian Wright, Thierry Henry, Dennis Wise, Teddy Sheringham, Jamie Redknapp, Jermaine Jenas and probably more. Sky have a serious agenda as they're always asking the question. 
Rashford has 126 appearances and 32 goals in the 31 months since he made his debut. Harry Kane probably should have left Tottenham too I suppose.

It's not quite the argument they are making,
They are saying if wants to be playing as the Striker basically the 9 he needs to move,  Which is silly cause even if he plays every week as a 9 he ain't going to play for England ahead of Kane is he,
I'm not sure if Rashford has said he wants to be a 9 , if not it makes little sense why they keep bringing it up

Mitch Connor

yourdeadwright wrote: »

It's not quite the argument they are making,
They are saying if wants to be playing as the Striker basically the 9 he needs to move,  Which is silly cause even if he plays every week as a 9 he ain't going to play for England ahead of Kane is he,
I'm not sure if Rashford has said he wants to be a 9 , if not it makes little sense why they keep bringing it up

If he wants to develop as a forward he needs to play as a forward.

Personally I think he would be great in a two man attack, more central, off a lead striker. I thought he should have come in for Sterling in the world cup and played off Kane. I've also argued that if United went to a 352 formation with two forwards - assuming Lukaku is one of them I think we would see far better from either any of Rashford/Sanchez and Martial in the second attacker position, playing off Big Rom. I think it would massively help Lukaku too.

Most of his games for United come as a winger, very rarely players as an actual forward. So while he may never have said he wants to be a number 9 striker, I don't think he has said he wants to a winger either - or at least not the more conventional type of winger that Jose deploys him as.

I can see the argument, but not sure what club would be a good fit for him in that style. Not many play with two up top (in terms of having two forwards rather than a striker and a creative player free at 10) or would have a striker that he would fit well with - I actually think United is potentially the perfect side for him, if we shifted formation as I pointed to above.

S.M.B.

Minderbinder wrote: »

It's unreal the amount of ex-pros telling Rashford he needs to leave United. Every time he plays for England someone is saying it. Jamie Carragher is the latest to add to Alan Shearer, Ian Wright, Thierry Henry, Dennis Wise, Teddy Sheringham, Jamie Redknapp, Jermaine Jenas and probably more. Sky have a serious agenda as they're always asking the question. 
Rashford has 126 appearances and 32 goals in the 31 months since he made his debut. Harry Kane probably should have left Tottenham too I suppose.

Kane spent one season at Spurs where he wasn't starting regularly. He would have been around Rashford's age that year. Rashford right now has much more experience than Kane but I don't think many people expect to see him as a permanent fixture in the first team next season unless he develops even further this year. He then has a choice of whether he is happy as a squad player at United or developing his skills at another club where he would aim to be on the team sheet week in week out.

Will I Am Not

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Not really a myth is it ?
Look at his record v the top 6 , miss v Spurs recently, 
World cup bangs them in in the group stage v the minnows, then doesn;lt score v England or the knockout stages
Champions league scores a few in group v minnows then was woeful against Sevilla in both legs last year,  scores right at the end when its 2-0 and nothing to play for .
He's a goal machine v poor side's no question but he does struggle in big games it has to be mental and I think something he can over come

His miss V Spurs wasn’t because it was a “big game”, he had similar misses in his 2 previous games. He’s inconsistent regardless of opposition, he just has less chances to put it right against better teams.
He wasn’t even in the squad for the group game V England and got taken off early in the playoff. He was absolutely class against Brazil.
As for the Sevilla games, he was no more woeful than the rest of the team, United didn’t attack and when they had to attack he scored.

You’re being very disingenuous with your cherry picking.

DM_7

A player good enough for Man Utd, leaving to play at a club where they should play more often does not always help the player.

By moving to play with lesser players it can actually hamper their development.

There is a big difference between a guy leaving on loan or permanent to play, as they would not play much at all at OT and a guy who will play a lot of games with players of a higher level.

Headshot

bangkok wrote: »

'Boateng rang Jose to reject Man Utd'

http://www.skysports.com/share/11495779

Best call ever

Mitch Connor

DM_7 wrote: »

A player good enough for Man Utd, leaving to play at a club where they should play more often does not always help the player.

By moving to play with lesser players it can actually hamper their development.

There is a big difference between a guy leaving on loan or permanent to play, as they would not play much at all at OT and a guy who will play a lot of games with players of a higher level.

But while he is getting games at United is he really improving?

Now, obviously a lack of improvement could be down to himself. But if we are talking about a player leaving to better themselves I think we should put that argument to the side.

So... having done that. Is a lack of progress down to a lack of coaching? Is it down to the position? Is it the manager is not getting the best out of him?

I do think Rashford has the talent to be a great forward but....

1. He isn't better or at least he is not better suited to playing as a lead striker than Lukaku.
2. United play with 1 up top.
3. We can't say that Jose will be gone any time soon (lets wait til Monday morning for that!:D:pac:)

At United the coaching he gets is unlikely to change in the near future, or we can't say it will do.

At United it is unlikely that we will move to a formation that plays two up front (despite, imo, suiting the squad better).

Even if we did move to 2 up top, Sanchez would get the nod ahead of him (not saying that is wrong).

Rashford has little chance of playing up front as an actual forward at United - unless we see a change in management/formation.

Mitch Connor

Headshot wrote: »

Best call ever

I'd say Leeds ringing about trying to sign Irwin was better.:D

yourdeadwright

Will I Am Not wrote: »

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Not really a myth is it ?
Look at his record v the top 6 , miss v Spurs recently, 
World cup bangs them in in the group stage v the minnows, then doesn;lt score v England or the knockout stages
Champions league scores a few in group v minnows then was woeful against Sevilla in both legs last year,  scores right at the end when its 2-0 and nothing to play for .
He's a goal machine v poor side's no question but he does struggle in big games it has to be mental and I think something he can over come

His miss V Spurs wasn’t because it was a “big game”, he had similar misses in his 2 previous games. He’s inconsistent regardless of opposition, he just has less chances to put it right against better teams.
He wasn’t even in the squad for the group game V England and got taken off early in the playoff. He was absolutely class against Brazil.
As for the Sevilla games, he was no more woeful than the rest of the team, United didn’t attack and when they had to attack he scored.

You’re being very disingenuous with your cherry picking.

Whatever way its looked at his goal scoring record in big games is simply awful ,But then its crazy when you look at how many goals he scores in the other games ,,
Iv said for a long time I think this will be his undoing at United , which is a little unfair considering how many points he helps them pick up against the weaker teams,
You can't even call him a bad player cause he certainly isn't he just seems to have some kinda mental block in big games,

DM_7

Mitch Connor wrote: »

But while he is getting games at United is he really improving?

Now, obviously a lack of improvement could be down to himself. But if we are talking about a player leaving to better themselves I think we should put that argument to the side.

So... having done that. Is a lack of progress down to a lack of coaching? Is it down to the position? Is it the manager is not getting the best out of him?

I do think Rashford has the talent to be a great forward but....

1. He isn't better or at least he is not better suited to playing as a lead striker than Lukaku.
2. United play with 1 up top.
3. We can't say that Jose will be gone any time soon (lets wait til Monday morning for that!:D:pac:)

At United the coaching he gets is unlikely to change in the near future, or we can't say it will do.

At United it is unlikely that we will move to a formation that plays two up front (despite, imo, suiting the squad better).

Even if we did move to 2 up top, Sanchez would get the nod ahead of him (not saying that is wrong).

Rashford has little chance of playing up front as an actual forward at United - unless we see a change in management/formation.

Good points. Judt to expand my own questions, I think the idea of him leaving to improve, get what he wants re position and playing time is not a certainty. I think the peiple calling for it are acting like it is (certain). I am sure Ihenacho had that expectation when leaving City.

Rashford is likely to end up on the wing or bench at any club, especially in England. I base this on how few young men get striker roles in the Premier League. Are any teams giving start time to a young striker in the Premier League? His ability to play out wide will be used while a more experienced played gets the nod up front.

Re his ability, do we think he is a 9 at all or ready to be a 9 at a premier league club every week. I don't on the latter and consider him a player more suited to performing roles as required rather than a set position.

Development, i think he is doing well by comparison to most his age. His improvement is not rapid but I don't think rapid progress is the norm at 19/20/21. The rapid part is no senior play to over 120 appearances in 2 and a half seasons.

jayo26

Headshot wrote: »

Best call ever

Bit like me ringing Rachel Riley up and saying hey sorry Rachel I don't want to date you... I'd say she be devastated.

Lord TSC

City and West Ham caught telling porkies about their attendance figures.

West Ham: Newham council says the average attendance at West Ham was 42,779 based on the 12 games it attended - which is 12,530 fans fewer than the club's season average figure of 55,309.

Manchester City: Greater Manchester Police's average figures were 7,482 lower than club figures, again based on 12 games.

Tottenham: Brent Council says crowds at Wembley Stadium were on average 3,740 less than the club's stated numbers.

Chelsea: Hammersmith and Fulham council says its average was 3,505 fans lower than club numbers, based on six games.

Manchester United: Trafford Council and Greater Manchester Police both said United's published attendance figures matched its own, based on 12 games.

paulbok

jayo26 wrote: »

Bit like me ringing Rachel Riley up and saying hey sorry Rachel I don't want to date you... I'd say she be devastated.

Phew, good to see you posting. Though for a while you were otherwise engaged.

ElChe32

paulbok wrote: »

Phew, good to see you posting. Though for a while you were otherwise engaged.

He's our very own Mr. X

yourdeadwright

Lord TSC wrote: »

City and West Ham caught telling porkies about their attendance figures.

West Ham: Newham council says the average attendance at West Ham was 42,779 based on the 12 games it attended - which is 12,530 fans fewer than the club's season average figure of 55,309.

Manchester City: Greater Manchester Police's average figures were 7,482 lower than club figures, again based on 12 games.

Tottenham: Brent Council says crowds at Wembley Stadium were on average 3,740 less than the club's stated numbers.

Chelsea: Hammersmith and Fulham council says its average was 3,505 fans lower than club numbers, based on six games.

Manchester United: Trafford Council and Greater Manchester Police both said United's published attendance figures matched its own, based on 12 games.

I think the clubs figures are on tickets sold , the council are on fans who turn up

VW 1

Often you hear the united attendance announced and its nowhere near what looks to be in the stadium, especially noticeable for domestic cup competitions. Usually down to the fact that tgey include season ticket holders in the attending number, whether they are present or not.

bangkok

Pereira made his brazil debut last night, fred came on as well

Mitch Connor

Its odd how Pereira has been dropped from the match day squads since the Brighton game. I know that is only 2 matches, Spurs and Burnley, but while I didn't think he was great vs Brighton I think not getting in the squad seemed odd - given how he had looked before.

bangkok

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Its odd how Pereira has been dropped from the match day squads since the Brighton game. I know that is only 2 matches, Spurs and Burnley, but while I didn't think he was great vs Brighton I think not getting in the squad seemed odd - given how he had looked before.

I think the problem is his size. He is small and jose seems to like taller/stronger players. Unless there is an injury/suspension i dont think he will make too many squads which is a shame

Mitch Connor

bangkok wrote: »

I think the problem is his size. He is small and jose seems to like taller/stronger players. Unless there is an injury/suspension i dont think he will make too many squads which is a shame

Fred is tiny.
Sanchez is tiny.
Lingard is tiny.

bangkok

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Fred is tiny.
Sanchez is tiny.
Lingard is tiny.

Obviously there are small players in every squad, but i think jose likes tall/strong players.

Look at spine of our team, id say every player is over 6ft and very strong.

If it came to a place on the bench between fellaini or periera i think jose picks fellaini

Trigger

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Its odd how Pereira has been dropped from the match day squads since the Brighton game. I know that is only 2 matches, Spurs and Burnley, but while I didn't think he was great vs Brighton I think not getting in the squad seemed odd - given how he had looked before.

He was always going to be a stopgap at 6 until Matic returned I thought, though he did start and come off at half time in matic return didn't he

Drumpot

I see Shaw might play against Watford.

If that was Pogba it would be at least 4 haircut cycles before we would see him in a training kit!

Rayne Wooney

Lukaku is what he is, an extremely hard working CF that will get you a good amount of goals. Is he better than City’s CF? No, is he better than Kane? No, is he better than Firmino, Aubameyang, Morata? He is at least on par I would imagine.

He is a good player, not a special player. Unfortunately for us City have one of the best CFs the league has seen, and he is surrounded by special players in almost every position. We have one player who is at that level and he plays between the goalposts.

bangkok

'Players could be forced to pay agents'

http://www.skysports.com/share/11495937

This would be one of the best moves ever in football if it gets approved

IamtheWalrus

bangkok wrote: »

'Players could be forced to pay agents'

http://www.skysports.com/share/11495937

This would be one of the best moves ever in football if it gets approved

They'll just pass on the expense to the clubs. Make no difference.

bucketybuck

IamtheWalrus wrote: »

They'll just pass on the expense to the clubs. Make no difference.

The devil is in the details but I don't think its as simple as saying they will just pass on the costs.

People view costs differently when they are being paid out of their own pockets, its simple human nature and it applies to multi-millionaires just as much as you or I. Currently a player doesn't give a toss that the club are paying agents millions, they got theirs and everything else is window dressing. But if the player has to handle those payments, if he has to watch the money leave his account, thats different, and it could be the pebble that starts a culture change.

Say that now a player agrees a contract, he gets paid and then separately the agent gets paid. Player doesn't care, why would he.

But maybe in the future a player agrees a contract, an inflated contract even, to include agent fees. Then he has to pass so much of that onto the agent. I guarantee there will be some players thinking "Yeah, I got paid, but do I have to give all of this extra £41 million to this guy? I have it now, it sure would be nice to keep some of that too...".

Change is driven by such things, I'm glad to see them them looking seriously at it.

Liam O

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

Lukaku is what he is, an extremely hard working CF that will get you a good amount of goals. Is he better than City’s CF? No, is he better than Kane? No, is he better than Firmino, Aubameyang, Morata? He is at least on par I would imagine.

He is a good player, not a special player. Unfortunately for us City have one of the best CFs the league has seen, and he is surrounded by special players in almost every position. We have one player who is at that level and he plays between the goalposts.

Aubameyang is miles better than Lukaku imo. Firmino plays a very different role but plays it brilliantly. Lukaku this season so far has barely done what I thought he was good at which is take his chances when they are presented to him. Absolutely horrid misses in the 2 losses that if Danny Welbeck was doing people would be talking about how he's not a lethal finisher. Something I thought that Lukaku had in those kind of situations but seemingly not as it happened plenty last season too.

That said he seems to have a bit of a head of steam up now so hopefully will do better the coming weeks.

~Rebel~

bucketybuck wrote: »

The devil is in the details but I don't think its as simple as saying they will just pass on the costs.

People view costs differently when they are being paid out of their own pockets, its simple human nature and it applies to multi-millionaires just as much as you or I. Currently a player doesn't give a toss that the club are paying agents millions, they got theirs and everything else is window dressing. But if the player has to handle those payments, if he has to watch the money leave his account, thats different, and it could be the pebble that starts a culture change.

Say that now a player agrees a contract, he gets paid and then separately the agent gets paid. Player doesn't care, why would he.

But maybe in the future a player agrees a contract, an inflated contract even, to include agent fees. Then he has to pass so much of that onto the agent. I guarantee there will be some players thinking "Yeah, I got paid, but do I have to give all of this extra £41 million to this guy? I have it now, it sure would be nice to keep some of that too...".

Change is driven by such things, I'm glad to see them them looking seriously at it.

I know what you're getting at, but that's already happening, with agents getting a cut of player wages or deals. And also, just the dynamic of the relationship - the agent isn't "some guy", it's usually someone very proactive in their career, borderline father figure. Like Mino for Pogba or Zlatan. Players are more childlike in their protection from the real world than they've ever been, and agents are a big part of that. The player entrusts more of how their carreer works, and how their finances are managed, to their agent than anyone else. In a lot of ways, their loyalty towards their agent is stronger than towards their club. So I just can't see this changing that ethos.

Reckon the funds will simply be shuffled around, the same as they are in a myriad of other footballing circumstances, and the player will do what they do best - keep the head down and just let the grown ups deal with it.

Lord TSC

I really like the idea of paying agent fees over the course of the players contract, in a bid to discourage agents shoppinglayers round quickly.

https://twitter.com/utdxtra/status/1039938626099048448?s=19

beakerjoe

Drumpot wrote: »

I see Shaw might play against Watford.

If that was Pogba it would be at least 4 haircut cycles before we would see him in a training kit!

He changes his haircuts 4 times a week so hed probably make it back for the Watford game.

DM_7

Fred The Red wrote: »

https://twitter.com/utdxtra/status/1039938626099048448?s=19

I don't think that is what the BBC said. Yesterday, Simon Stone theorised United could play Shaw as the 7 day mandatory period does not exist. United have medical facilities/resources that would allow Uniteds/Shaws Doctors to decide when he plays.



https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/amp/football/45502131?__twitter_impression=true


"Football Association guidelines state a player who suffers concussion should not play for 14 days.

But Shaw could play after being treated in United's "enhanced care setting."

The guidelines allow a player to return earlier if seven criteria are met, and United's state-of-the-art medical facilities are understood to meet the requirements".



..............



Since then he has even clarified it for those who just read his tweet rather than the story.

https://twitter.com/sistoney67/status/1040153970591916032?s=19

bangkok

Drumpot wrote: »

I see Shaw might play against Watford.

If that was Pogba it would be at least 4 haircut cycles before we would see him in a training kit!

No it wouldnt

DM_7

It was sardonic.


Edit: ooh post calling Pogba hair style comment pathetic was quickly deleted.

Drumpot

bangkok wrote: »

No it wouldnt

Your "defend Pogba" filter must of missed that . . :pac:

Will I Am Not

Drumpot wrote: »

Your "defend Pogba" filter must of missed that . . :pac:

He originally called your post a “pathetic post” but deleted it.

Cantona's Collars

Lord TSC wrote: »

I really like the idea of paying agent fees over the course of the players contract, in a bid to discourage agents shoppinglayers round quickly.

Raiola will be crying if this happens.

bangkok

Cantona's Collars wrote: »

Raiola will be crying if this happens.

He has his money made already. Doubt he gives a toss at this stage