Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2018/2019 [Mod note 31-Aug-18]

bucketybuck

fatherted1969 wrote: »

Bit of a boys club re whatever bangkok says in here at times. It's well documented what Dalots strengths are so why the big deal when he says it ?

Bullshit leaves a stain.

S.M.B.

I think when Chong gets a game he'll surprise a few

Liam McPoyle

fatherted1969 wrote: »

Bit of a boys club re whatever bangkok says in here at times. It's well documented what Dalots strengths are so why the big deal when he says it ?

Anyway looking forward to seeing him and Chong play right side of the team hopefully soon enough. I don't see much of Chong to have a balanced opinion but he looks a fantastic prospect from what I've seen of him

Bangkok has a tendency to allude to somehow being in the know. A few of the posters in here watch the underage teams regularly and have mentioned up and coming players or young lads that look to have potential, I've never seen bangkok post about watching Dalot play. The first mention of him being in the squad and bangkok again alludes to being in the know despite not having mentioned watching the player play before, at least that I've seen. I'd be of the opinion that he can be a bit of a spoofer by times, the boy who cried wolf and all that, and I'm clearly not alone in that opinion. Nothing to do with boys clubs or cliques, its people being sick of the same oul nonsense, that's all.

Trigger

deaddonkey15 wrote: »

It's easy thanks from the usual suspects, especially if a goalpost reference is involved.

Well it's easy enough to reference goalposts when your buddy is moving them constantly

fatherted1969

bucketybuck wrote: »

fatherted1969 wrote: »

Bit of a boys club re whatever bangkok says in here at times. It's well documented what Dalots strengths are so why the big deal when he says it ?

Bullshit leaves a stain.

He contributes his opinion as he's well entitled to. Just see a trend of certain posters jumping on whatever he says even though it reads as fairly innocuous to me. Would think if he bothered these posters so much they'd just put him on the ignore list

bucketybuck

fatherted1969 wrote: »

He contributes his opinion as he's well entitled to.

We'll have to disagree on that.

Adamocovic

Business Cat wrote: »

Bangkok has a tendency to allude to somehow being in the know. A few of the posters in here watch the underage teams regularly and have mentioned up and coming players or young lads that look to have potential, I've never seen bangkok post about watching Dalot play. The first mention of him being in the squad and bangkok again alludes to being in the know despite not having mentioned watching the player play before, at least that I've seen. I'd be of the opinion that he can be a bit of a spoofer by times, the boy who cried wolf and all that, and I'm clearly not alone in that opinion. Nothing to do with boys clubs or cliques, its people being sick of the same oul nonsense, that's all.

God I'm weak and should know when to quit, and I know people pop fun at me for defending Bangkok, but he has posted about Dalot a number of times, may not have specifically mentioned how many times he's seen him play but did mention his abilities before.

Also posted around the time of the signing that he thought Dalot could see a lot of action this season and replace Valencia.

jayo26

fatherted1969 wrote: »

Would think if he bothered these posters so much they'd just put him on the ignore list

This actually works brilliant it's a great feature.

Rayne Wooney

It never really made sense to replace Mourinho with a manager who might achieve 25% of what Mourinho has in his career. Spurs are like an unsuccessful Jose team.

jayo26

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

It never really made sense to replace Mourinho with a manager who might achieve 25% of what Mourinho has in his career. Spurs are like an unsuccessful Jose team.

You don't have to win any trophies to be concidered one of the best teams in Europe these days, silverware doesn't count it's all about the personality and how likeable you are.

54and56

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

It never really made sense to replace Mourinho with a manager who might achieve 25% of what Mourinho has in his career. Spurs are like an unsuccessful Jose team.

I love Jose and hopes he stays at Utd for many many years but your statement begs another question.

Would you be happy if Poch (or another manager) came in and during their tenure won 25% of what Jose has previously won in his career i.e. 2 league titles, 3 domestic cups and one European* title or do you expect Jose to exceed that trophy haul in the remainder of his time at Utd?




* 25% of 2 X Champions League's + 2 X UEFA Cups.

brinty

Rayne Wooney wrote:

It never really made sense to replace Mourinho with a manager who has acheived 0% of what Mourinho has in his career. Spurs are like an unsuccessful Jose team.

FYP

54and56

jayo26 wrote: »

You don't have to win any trophies to be concidered one of the best teams in Europe these days

I think you're conflating teams

jayo26 wrote: »

silverware doesn't count it's all about the personality and how likeable you are.

with managers there Jayo.

Moving on

https://twitter.com/ManUnitedWorld/status/1042293395522297856?s=19

Liam O

Je_suis_Jean wrote: »

I love Jose and hopes he stays at Utd for many many years but your statement begs another question.

Would you be happy if Poch (or another manager) came in and during their tenure won 25% of what Jose has previously won in his career i.e. 2 league titles, 3 domestic cups and one European* title or do you expect Jose to exceed that trophy haul in the remainder of his time at Utd?




* 25% of 2 X Champions League's + 2 X UEFA Cups.

I don't know if you are thinking about what you are saying really. You hope José stays at United for many years but question whether he will win at a level he has done previously. They are mutually exclusive. He can't go 3 seasons not winning anything like other managers, both for his job expectations and his own pride.

But of course I don't think an attempt at any kind of reasoned discussion was the reason behind your 'I love José' comment but maybe I'm just cynical.

54and56

Liam O wrote: »

I don't know if you are thinking about what you are saying really. You hope José stays at United for many years but question whether he will win at a level he has done previously.

That's the hypothesis alright, given the earlier comment that if Poch came in he;d only win 25% of what Jose had previously won in his career. If the poster expected Poch to win 2 league titles, 3 domestic cups and one European title with Utd why appoint Poch if the expectation is Jose will win more during his tenure?

Liam O wrote: »

But of course I don't think an attempt at any kind of reasoned discussion was the reason behind your 'I love José' comment but maybe I'm just cynical.

It's too early in the morning for cynicism.

There are many reasons to love Jose

Anyway, as Fred has said, big match tonight.

Adamocovic

Looking forward to tonight, but a bit hesitant.

On paper should win this easily, but like they always say games aren't played on paper. The beauty of a midweek CL game is it has the ability to change the mood quickly. It's also the worry about it.

Win tonight with a good display and this place should become more positive, lose however and it's everybody for themselves!

Also would love to see Memphi stick a few away against City, it's about time he did something for us

bangkok

'Depay: I'm better for leaving Man Utd'

http://www.skysports.com/share/11501990

Depay also basically admits he was wrong to turn up to u23 game the way he did

Adamocovic

Adamocovic wrote: »

Looking forward to tonight, but a bit hesitant.

On paper should win this easily, but like they always say games aren't played on paper. The beauty of a midweek CL game is it has the ability to change the mood quickly. It's also the worry about it.

Win tonight with a good display and this place should become more positive, lose however and it's everybody for themselves!

Also would love to see Memphi stick a few away against City, it's about time he did something for us

Positive thoughts, I expect a couple of goals for Utd tonight and a confidence boasting win to keep us on a decent run of form away from home.

Adamocovic

bangkok wrote: »

'Depay: I'm better for leaving Man Utd'

http://www.skysports.com/share/11501990

Depay also basically admits he was wrong to turn up to u23 game the way he did

Hope he can continue improving, I do like him and was disappointed how he failed with us. Saying the right things at least and taking the blame.

After one season, I couldn't find myself in the team. I was still young, didn't get a lot of opportunities, but I must say that the first season I didn't put the quality on the table that I thought.

It's in the past and I'm a flamboyant guy and like nice stuff but that doesn't mean I couldn't be more smart

Nice little bit here too :pac:

I believe for sure that the city is still Red and tomorrow I'll be trying to get a good result against the Blues.

https://twitter.com/utdxtra/status/1042106897820774400?s=19

hufpc8w3adnk65

Fred The Red wrote: »

https://twitter.com/utdxtra/status/1042106897820774400?s=19

That’s what happens when they meet players that have won the Premier League

ElChe32

MrMac84 wrote: »

That’s what happens when they meet players that have won the Premier League

bangkok

Fergie arriving at Anfield a few years ago

https://youtu.be/I2O7exuHji4

jayo26

Nice to hear de gea talking about been happy at the club saying he has a lot of love for the fans,the club and the staff that work at the club.

TheDoc

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

It never really made sense to replace Mourinho with a manager who might achieve 25% of what Mourinho has in his career. Spurs are like an unsuccessful Jose team.

If Pochetino won the league this season or next, or last, it would be the second greatest managerial achievement in the history of the premier league.

I just don't get the constant belittling of rival coaches who "havn't won" something.

Spurs arn't meant to win anything. How do people not comprehend this?

It's such total nonsense and actually reads like utter jealousy you used to hear on the schoolground between kids talking about their teams

Tbf your recent tirades against Jose are fairly similar

Cantona's Collars

TheDoc wrote: »

If Pochetino won the league this season or next, or last, it would be the second greatest managerial achievement in the history of the premier league.

I just don't get the constant belittling of rival coaches who "havn't won" something.

Spurs arn't meant to win anything. How do people not comprehend this?

It's such total nonsense and actually reads like utter jealousy you used to hear on the schoolground between kids talking about their teams

Ah sure feck it,why don't United just rehire Moyes so if that's the yardstick you are using.

Adamcp898

The nonsensical thing about these arguments is the section of people who are, or at least claim to be, incapable of appraising the accomplishments of someone else without their being a shiny marker for them to count.

TheDoc

Fred The Red wrote: »

Tbf your recent tirades against Jose are fairly similar

In literally what regard?

TheDoc

Cantona's Collars wrote: »

Ah sure feck it,why don't United just rehire Moyes so if that's the yardstick you are using.

Your not getting the point if that is your conclusion.

How we first hired Moyes however. A manager who was doing really well with a club punching above its weight and where expectations were changed.

Everton were never supposed to win anything, but the progress and work that was being achieved led to the belief and potential the manager could go onto the next level.

Spurs are not supposed to win anything. If they do it's an utter, abject failure of multiple clubs higher then them. And as I said, it would literally be the second greatest managerial achievement in premier league history.

The first btw, being Ranieri at Leicester, if that wasn't obvious.

TheDoc

Like it's laughable stuff. If people weren't being ridiculous, they'd apply that same metric to players we sign.

"No player should play in our team that hasn't won trophies."

Ah yes, because that's what everybody said

TheDoc

TheDoc wrote: »

If Pochetino won the league this season or next, or last, it would be the second greatest managerial achievement in the history of the premier league. - He's been manager since 2014 and hasn't lifted a single piece of silverware

I just don't get the constant belittling of rival coaches who "havn't won" something. - He was called out because he has lost 3 games in a row without hardly any scrutiny and failed to organize his team in the last minutes of a CL game for two+ consecutive times. Tactically inept.

Spurs arn't meant to win anything. How do people not comprehend this? - Who are where has this been determined? What would the fans or the board say? Hows about players that have aspirations to be the best?

It's such total nonsense and actually reads like utter jealousy you used to hear on the schoolground between kids talking about their teams - Jealous of what exactly? I suspect it's more like a higher majority of fans are glad that Pochettino is not the Utd manager and has shown nothing to say that he's good enough to do the job of actually competing for silverware.

Let's break this down so - as above

yabadabado

TheDoc wrote: »

Like it's laughable stuff. If people weren't being ridiculous, they'd apply that same metric to players we sign.

"No player should play in our team that hasn't won trophies."

Why would anyone apply the same criteria to players and managers?

Now that's laughable stuff.

Turtwig

There's a disconnect here between both sides.
Taking any idea to extremes will always produce farcical conclusions.
(Though it will always get nice slaps on the back)
Proponent of minimum wage:
"Every body is entitled to a basic level of income".
Dismissive response
"Sure, why don't we pay everyone a €100 an hour!

Concerns over minimum wage:
"Not every business can afford to pay the legal minimum to their staff for the so they just wouldn't be able to hire them in the first place".
Dismissive response
"Then they shouldn't be operating a business!"

Relevant to this thread:
Example: "Poch why not Moyes again then??"

Example:"Trophies are important then why if you want Manager's who've "won it all" then Giovanni Trapattoni fits the bill nicely, surely?"

Both points are nonsensical. Pochettino isn't a similar calibre to Moyes. His times at Southampton and Spurs clearly show he this. Even more so Moyes has already been given his time. Trapattoni has shown the game has passed him by. (A similar principle is very currently under scrutiny for Carlo Ancelotti. )


Trophies won are definitely something, but they can't be everything or nothing either. The answers, as always, lie in a more defined part of the spectrum. Poch wouldn't necessarily be a bad fit for any top tier side, he's not tactically inept but he, like just about every thing, has some stronger attributes and some weaker attributes.

Will I Am Not

“Spurs aren’t meant to win anything”
Have you seen their squad?

Turtwig

Will I Am Not wrote: »

“Spurs aren’t meant to win anything”
Have you seen their squad?

They have a decent squad but consider it this way.

To Win the UCL:
Real, Barca, Bayern, PSG, Liverpool, City, United, Atleti etc. all have to do worse than them.

To win any domestic title:
They have to dwarf City, Chelsea, Pool, United

Realistically, unless you're an optimistic Spurs fan, they're not going to actually win anything bar maybe a domestic knock out cup. The UCL and league are out of the bounds.

Honestly, Spurs best hope of silverware imo is the League Cup or Europa League. Neither of which are a guarantee for any English side. So, all in all, apart from the Leicester year, that Spurs have won nothing isn't really all that surprising. Leicester was the year they should have won but then the fact Leicester won you can really say that about all of Spurs main rivals including Arsenal. Who also blew it that year.

Cantona's Collars

Will I Am Not wrote: »

“Spurs aren’t meant to win anything”
Have you seen their squad?

Are they the Mayo of the EPL?

IITYWYBMAD

Cantona's Collars wrote: »

Are they the Mayo of the EPL?

Last time Mayo won the all Ireland was 1951. Guess who won the league in 50-51???

Cantona's Collars

IITYWYBMAD wrote: »

Last time Mayo won the all Ireland was 1951. Guess who won the league in 50-51???

Did that priest move to London?

TheDoc

Fred The Red wrote: »

He's been manager since 2014 and hasn't lifted a single piece of silverware

Totenham last won a league title in the 60's.Their last actual trophy was a league cup ten years ago. Under Pochetino Spurs had their highest league finish in over 40 years. They are now considered genuine top 4 contenders and are in the Champions league for the second season running, for the first time, in the competitions history.

The point being, he has made clearly great strides and progress with them. Sure he hasn't won a trophy, but there is clear and obvious good work happening there.

He was called out because he has lost 3 games in a row without hardly any scrutiny and failed to organize his team in the last minutes of a CL game for two+ consecutive times. Tactically inept.

OK but typically, in the general, people don't call him out on just the isolation or specific games. He's lazily regarded as someone we shouldn't be interested in because he "hasn't won a trophy".

And look you've just said yourself that his tactically inept based on last night. So basically every manager is tactically inept then? Cause I've watched Jose lose us games, I've watched Pep lose his team games and I watched Fergie lose us games.

Sorry but that is an absolutely bull**** assessment.

Who or where has this been determined? What would the fans or the board say? Hows about players that have aspirations to be the best?

Really?

Spurs havn't been bought over by some sugar daddy or Arab state and funded to the hilt moving them to the next level. Pochetino did this with his own coaching, squad building the stamp he put into that club and team.

They are known to have an operational mode which is generally regarded as "tight" and they are consistently punching above their weight. Spurs have not invested or performed any significant actions to foster or evolve this, they hired a manager who has achieved this.

Jealous of what exactly? I suspect it's more like a higher majority of fans are glad that Pochettino is not the Utd manager and has shown nothing to say that he's good enough to do the job of actually competing for silverware.

It sounds like stuff you'd hear children do. "ehhh yeah but you havn't won a trophy". It's such low level stuff. There is only a few trophies around a year. Spurs winning one would be a monumental achievement, it shouldn't be expected. You can appreciate, acknowledge or bear witness to good works being performed where trophies havn't been accumulated to finalise the work.

Will I Am Not

Turtwig wrote: »

They have a decent squad but consider it this way.

To Win the UCL:
Real, Barca, Bayern, PSG, Liverpool, City, United, Atleti etc. all have to do worse than them.

To win any domestic title:
They have to dwarf City, Chelsea, Pool, United

Realistically, unless you're an optimistic Spurs fan, they're not going to actually win anything bar maybe a domestic knock out cup. The UCL and league are out of the bounds.

Honestly, Spurs best hope of silverware imo is the League Cup or Europa League. Neither of which are a guarantee for any English side. So, all in all, apart from the Leicester year, that Spurs have won nothing isn't really all that surprising. Leicester was the year they should have won but then the fact Leicester won you can really say that about all of Spurs main rivals including Arsenal. Who also blew it that year.

Yeah, which falls under the ‘winning something’ criteria.
Man for man they aren’t too far off any team domestically. They have as much right to be winning something as United or Liverpool.

bucketybuck

Turtwig wrote: »

Honestly, Spurs best hope of silverware imo is the League Cup or Europa League.

Neither of which they will even try to win, which says a lot about their mentality.

yabadabado

Spurs winning the FA Cup or League Cup wouldn't be a monumental achievement,they were capable of doing it with lesser teams.

They aren't top class competitions but it would be a good way for this Spurs team and management to get that albatross off their neck.

TheDoc

Will I Am Not wrote: »

“Spurs aren’t meant to win anything”
Have you seen their squad?

And who molded that squad? Who built it? Who took what was there, brought in collective performance improvement across the board? Who coaches is it to operate at the level it does?

At a club with a renowned strict wage bill structure, at a club that arn't frivolous spenders. A club with literally no modern history of success or winning anything.

This is what I've been saying all along. The same rob people use on his back to critique the lack of silverware, is the at the same time the biggest compliment.

He has molded and built a squad and team that began to compete, and now competes. Where before, they did not.

But by any other metric, Spurs are massively punching above their weight. The manager is a primary reason for this

Is he perfect? No.
Is he United manager material? I think so. His influences from Ferguson seem obvious to me, let alone his own confirmation of it.
Would he be a success as a United manager? We'll never know. But it's part of the gig, you assess who you think might achieve what you want and you commit.

While there is the merry go round of tired and outdated managers who get jobs for relegated threatened clubs, the same merry go round exists at the top level. And every now and then some new blood needs to come in, and it needs creative and brave clubs to do it.

We are equipped better than most in terms of taking risks with appointments. The market is starting to get smaller in terms of renowed world class coaches and manager, so there is phase coming where people will need to promote from the level below.

TheDoc

bucketybuck wrote: »

Neither of which they will even try to win, which says a lot about their mentality.

Pochetino has always been realistic and clear on the objectives. Challenge for title, qualify for CL.

They don't have the depth and the club don't have the ethos or willingness to spend the money to fund a squad capable of challenging multiple fronts.

We tanked the league in chasing the Europa League. A competition many United fans would absolutely berate and laugh at over the years.

What did it say about our team and club? What did it say about our mentality?

I enjoyed it as much as anyone else, winning is a great feeling. But I was hardly oblivious to the procession walk we had in that competition either. I don't think it's something we are all going to sing and dance about down the decades.

It was great to win, it's always a nice feeling, but was no one else a bit... " Right cool, lets put that in the cabinet, well done everyone, but time to get back to the big table"

Cantona's Collars

https://twitter.com/yxnnck/status/1042123862371172352

yourdeadwright

Judging a Spurs manger on what he won is a biut silly, As is people who say Klopp is awful he hasn't own anything at Liverpool , ITs very stupid,
Best way to judge a manger is to look at where in his time has he brought a team from ,
What was there level before he arrived, Has he improved them year on year, and has he also improved the way they play football,are they an attractive side , getting better each season ,
Moyes shouldn't be classed in the same bracket as Poch,
Moyes Everton done well but always always always approached games with the top 6 as underdogs and played in a way an under dog would, Defend in numbers and hope for a chance to come there way from a set piece or whatever ,Poch Spurs side go toe to toe and very often out play the other sides top six sides, so much so everyone now counts them as a big side not a small side over achieving
Moyes spent to many years worrying about other teams strong points and how to nullify them , he was never going to do well at a top side who more often than not play to there strengths and don't worry about the opposition,
The clash of styles of United and Moyes own style was to much, He had no experience of going toe to toe with big sides as a manger,