Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2018/2019 [Mod note 31-Aug-18]

Adamocovic

Thought I was in the wrong thread for a bit :P

yourdeadwright

Wining a cup can be very misleading as thinking the winner is a great manger,
For example see United Eufa cup win and Liverpool Eufa cup lose, compare the teams they played there light years apart,
Now I'm not saying Jose is a bad manger as he has history as a winner but I'm just saying cup wins can be slightly misleading ,
Another example is last year's champions league Liverpool got to the final without really playing any of Europe's traditional  top teams,

Would like to see myself start tonight alongside Matic and Pogba

Reminds me, must go and pester Jose

yabadabado

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Wining a cup can be very misleading as thinking the winner is a great manger,
For example see United Eufa cup win and Liverpool Eufa cup lose, compare the teams they played there light years apart,
Now I'm not saying Jose is a bad manger as he has history as a winner but I'm just saying cup wins can be slightly misleading ,
Another example is last year's champions league Liverpool got to the final without really playing any of Europe's traditional  top teams,

Difference is the top managers can get the team in a position to win trophies and will get their team over the line in finals.

yabadabado

yabadabado wrote: »

Difference is the top managers can get the team in a position to win trophies and will get their team over the line in finals.

jayo26

yabadabado wrote: »

Difference is the top managers can get the team in a position to win trophies and will get their team over the line in finals.

jayo26

We're doing it wrong so lads now cup wins dobt mean greatness ... must remember that next time I see some drunken fool running around the pub shouting nonsense about 5 times.

It's like the stats argument they only mean something when they support your opinion.

yourdeadwright

yabadabado wrote: »

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Wining a cup can be very misleading as thinking the winner is a great manger,
For example see United Eufa cup win and Liverpool Eufa cup lose, compare the teams they played there light years apart,
Now I'm not saying Jose is a bad manger as he has history as a winner but I'm just saying cup wins can be slightly misleading ,
Another example is last year's champions league Liverpool got to the final without really playing any of Europe's traditional  top teams,

Difference is the top managers can get the team in a position to win trophies and will get their team  over the line in finals.

Which could still potential happen , You have to build a team capable of winning it first, If a manger  improves a team year on year you can't knock them
Its funny Klopp gets more stick for losing in the final with a total underdog ,then he would if they just went out in the last 16.,

yourdeadwright

jayo26 wrote: »

We're doing it wrong so lads now cup wins dobt mean greatness ... must remember that next time I see some drunken fool running around the pub shouting nonsense about 5 times.

It's like the stats argument they only mean something when they support your opinion.

That's not my point, obviously if you do it time and time again its not luck, You can't say its luck for Jose he;s done it so many times , I'm saying people are wrong to dismiss Poch because he hasn't won a trophy on that logic the top teams all should have wanted Ranieri when he won the league ,
So basically saying there is more to judge a manger on than trophies alone ,
People calling Poch a bad coach are simply wrong ,

jayo26

yourdeadwright wrote: »

That's not my point, obviously if you do it time and time again its not luck, You can't say its luck for Jose he;s done it so many times , I'm saying people are wrong to dismiss Poch because he hasn't won a trophy on that logic the top teams all should have wanted Ranieri when he won the league ,
So basically saying there is more to judge a manger on than trophies alone ,
People calling Poch a bad coach are simply wrong ,

Not many are saying he is a bad coach, he just isn't good at getting teams over the line and he has a bad mentality. What kind of a manager goes into an fa cup semi and says it's not Important for his team to win? It's ok to say out he was taking pressure off his team well if he was it didn't work!!!

He has got his team onto a position to finish a season very strong a few times since he took over at spurs and they have repeatedly fallen short each year. That's not down to bad luck either it's about instilling a winning mentality into your players.

StringerBell

Doc, do you think the Spurs fans would like to see their team go out to win a realistic trophy? The Europa, the league cup, something to give them a big day out with a big celebration after it?

As you said, they haven't won a thing for a decade. Their manager refusing to have a proper crack at those competitions is a slap to the face of the supporters. They are not winning the league, they blew their big chance at that for the foreseeable future, winning trophies is important to fans. A trophy is a trophy. Some are better than others but any is better than none.

What is the point like? The object of competitive sport is to win trophies. Finishing in the top 4 is going to make Spurs fans content and obviously please the money men. It isn't going to make them any memories and that is a big part of football.

You have infinitely more bad days than good as a fan, it's important to make the most of the good. The expectation level and demand at a club like united is very different also to a club like Spurs. We win trophies, even in this poorer period of time after the Fergie years most teams in the league would still envy our trophy haul.

Spurs players and managers don't have that luxury/burden. To push on, to develop that winning mentality you have to actually start winning games that matter. In his time at Spurs what game that really mattered has Pochettino actually won?

yourdeadwright

jayo26 wrote: »

yourdeadwright wrote: »

That's not my point, obviously if you do it time and time again its not luck, You can't say its luck for Jose he;s done it so many times , I'm saying people are wrong to dismiss Poch because he hasn't won a trophy on that logic the top teams all should have wanted Ranieri when he won the league ,
So basically saying there is more to judge a manger on than trophies alone ,
People calling Poch a bad coach are simply wrong ,

Not many are saying he is a bad coach, he just isn't good at getting teams over the line and he has a bad mentality.  What kind of a manager goes into an fa cup semi and says it's not Important for his team to win? It's ok to say out he was taking pressure off his team well if he was it didn't work!!!

He has got his team onto a position to finish a season very strong a few times since he took over at spurs and they have repeatedly fallen short each year. That's not down to bad luck either it's about instilling a winning mentality into your players.

Id give the man a break this year, its clear as day he wanted to improve the squad but due to the new Stadium and now the issues with it his hands where toed by Levy , 
Then most of his team went to the end of the World cup .,
Jose been the one complaining about his board when he still spent what 80 million ? Poch got to spend nothing at all,
Look at Spurs under Sherwood to now, in 4 season he has transformed them, When was the last time they even had a proper home game ? Poch has done an unreal job
The stadium really messed them up for this season,  If they can just hang into the top 4 this season, they will be flying when the cash starts rolling

jayo26

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Id give the man a break this year, its clear as day he wanted to improve the squad but due to the new Stadium and now the issues with it his hands where toed by Levy , 
Then most of his team went to the end of the World cup .,
Jose been the one complaining about his board when he still spent what 80 million ? Poch got to spend nothing at all,
Look at Spurs under Sherwood to now, in 4 season he has transformed them, When was the last time they even had a proper home game ? Poch has done an unreal job
The stadium really messed them up for this season,  If they can just hang into the top 4 this season, they will be flying when the cash starts rolling

I wasn't judging him on this season I was judging him on his comments from previous years and his inability t9 see out a season. He ain't a bad manager he just hasn't proved anything to be called a top manager that someone like United should be looking at and that's mostly why he is talked of in here.

TheDoc

StringerBell wrote: »

Doc, do you think the Spurs fans would like to see their team go out to win a realistic trophy? The Europa, the league cup, something to give them a big day out with a big celebration after it?

As you said, they haven't won a thing for a decade. Their manager refusing to have a proper crack at those competitions is a slap to the face of the supporters. They are not winning the league, they blew their big chance at that for the foreseeable future, winning trophies is important to fans. A trophy is a trophy. Some are better than others but any is better than none.

What is the point like? The object of competitive sport is to win trophies. Finishing in the top 4 is going to make Spurs fans content and obviously please the money men. It isn't going to make them any memories and that is a big part of football.

You have infinitely more bad days than good as a fan, it's important to make the most of the good. The expectation level and demand at a club like united is very different also to a club like Spurs. We win trophies, even in this poorer period of time after the Fergie years most teams in the league would still envy our trophy haul.

Spurs players and managers don't have that luxury/burden. To push on, to develop that winning mentality you have to actually start winning games that matter. In his time at Spurs what game that really mattered has Pochettino actually won?

I absolutely agree with you on most, and as I posted previously some lessons need to be learned from last year. They had a great chance to get to the final through us and didn't.

There is coming a point where he needs to throw a kick up the hole to these players he has coveted and nurtured, but they will need to get some kicks to avoid complacency and to push onto the next level or make that final step.

Thought he has been doing that this season a bit. He has very critical of his team after defeating us, which most managers wouldn't. But he could see the preparation, the attitude, the training or whatever wasn't right and was calling it out. While he is obviously culpable as any manager is in a three defeats in a row, for a team of that quality, he did atleast see it was coming. Just hasn't arrested it.

I do just think if there was our managers job up for grabs tomorrow, he would be top 3 on any shortlist, and rightly so imo.

bangkok

U19's beat young boys 2-1. Would take that result tonight and hopefully juventus beat valencia

adox

The absolute naivety in his suicidal set up against Liverpool and more importantly not changing it, makes me believe he still has a lot to learn to become a top manager.

ElChe32

https://twitter.com/ManUtd/status/1042456395138752512

Adamocovic

So apparently the starting line-up has "leaked" which sounds odd. If it's true no Dalot starting.

De Gea, Young, Smalling, Lindelof, Shaw, Pogba, Matic, Fred Rashford, Lukaku, Martial.

DM_7

Attractive side is a nonsense imo.

An innovative manager who has won, found something new to drive his team onto those wins are what a team should look for. Will their work translate to a new side also getting victories?

A football manager who can keep up with changes and use the common ideas is good but is he great?

The greatest manager of pemier lrague time was SAF who used many ideas and could see where football was going to get ahead, not just keep up.

Wenger had a false 9 long before Pep and Barca. Jose and Benitez found strength in defensive systems that stifled opponents but also systematic study of an opponent to find weaknesses to exploit.

We all know about Peps innovative ideas.

Attractive play is just a result of a managers work but it does not mean gane results will be good enough to win.

StringerBell

Adamocovic wrote: »

So apparently the starting line-up has "leaked" which sounds odd. If it's true no Dalot starting.

De Gea, Young, Smalling, Lindelof, Shaw, Pogba, Matic, Fred Rashford, Lukaku, Martial.

Would be more surprised to see him start rather than not. As I said if he gets on a for a bit of game time that would be good. Can see why young is starting and happy to see Shaw starting if true.

Adamocovic

StringerBell wrote: »

Would be more surprised to see him start rather than not. As I said if he gets on a for a bit of game time that would be good. Can see why young is starting and happy to see Shaw starting if true.

If true is the key part. Never a big fan of supposed leaked lineups but saw it on a match preview page. The writer did stress that it could be nonsense.

More complaints about the artificial pitch suiting them more too.

Adamocovic

Also we are 28/1 to win the CL, stick the house on it :P

Adamocovic

Saw a stat, we've only won 3 out of our last 14 away CL games. Hopefully we add another tonight.

alchemist33

Is the game tonight just on BT?

Rossi IRL

What a team

https://twitter.com/ManUtd/status/1042471938336202755?s=19

Adamocovic

Rossi IRL wrote: »

What a team

https://twitter.com/ManUtd/status/1042471938336202755?s=19

Very interesting! I like the move by Jose to start Dalot.

Be interesting to see how he can play but at least he's played in the CL before!

StringerBell

Sanchez dropped or rested?

Surprised to see Dalot start but happy to see how he does.

Hope we pound them Young Boys

Trigger

Dalot starts RB

alchemist33

StringerBell wrote: »

Sanchez dropped or rested?

Surprised to see Dalot start but happy to see how he does.

Hope we pound them Young Boys

Mildly interested in finding out what city they're based in, but very wary of googling it!

Trigger

Surprised to see Pogba get the nod as captain with smalling starting..

Lord TSC

Surely tonight will be the game Martial shows a determination to prove himself.

We should be pelting 4 or 5 past this team.

Trigger

alchemist33 wrote: »

Mildly interested in finding out what city they're based in, but very wary of googling it!

Bern I think..

Liam McPoyle

Last time there was mention of Manchester United and Young Boys around these parts there were some pretty scurrilous made by certain parties. Hopefully things will be a bit more civilised tonight.

3 nil to United with Dalot to get 3 assists following a strong cross from a run.

Trigger

I reckon dalot of us are gonna be surprised tonight

jayo26

Business Cat wrote: »

3 nil to United with Dalot to get 3 assists following a strong cross from a run.

He will shove a few players off the ball I have heard he is strong.

The_Kew_Tour

3 points please, no injuries and can we see a nice performance if it's not too much to ask.

That's all.

bangkok

Good to see sanchez dropped.

bangkok

jayo26 wrote: »

He will shove a few players off the ball I have heard he is strong.

Fast aswell

fatherted1969

StringerBell wrote: »

Doc, do you think the Spurs fans would like to see their team go out to win a realistic trophy? The Europa, the league cup, something to give them a big day out with a big celebration after it?

As you said, they haven't won a thing for a decade. Their manager refusing to have a proper crack at those competitions is a slap to the face of the supporters. They are not winning the league, they blew their big chance at that for the foreseeable future, winning trophies is important to fans. A trophy is a trophy. Some are better than others but any is better than none.

What is the point like? The object of competitive sport is to win trophies. Finishing in the top 4 is going to make Spurs fans content and obviously please the money men. It isn't going to make them any memories and that is a big part of football.

You have infinitely more bad days than good as a fan, it's important to make the most of the good. The expectation level and demand at a club like united is very different also to a club like Spurs. We win trophies, even in this poorer period of time after the Fergie years most teams in the league would still envy our trophy haul.

Spurs players and managers don't have that luxury/burden. To push on, to develop that winning mentality you have to actually start winning games that matter. In his time at Spurs what game that really mattered has Pochettino actually won?

Accountants celebrate top 4. Fans celebrate trophies

bangkok

fatherted1969 wrote: »

Accountants celebrate top 4. Fans celebrate trophies

Nobody celebrates a league cup win

As I side note, just flicking through twitter and our resident DJ Duncan has all the pool fans triggered on social media :P

~Rebel~

alchemist33 wrote: »

Mildly interested in finding out what city they're based in, but very wary of googling it!

Bern

IncognitoMan

Fred The Red wrote: »

As I side note, just flicking through twitter and our resident DJ Duncan has all the pool fans triggered on social media :P

Got a link?

IncognitoMan

IncognitoMan wrote: »

Got a link?

https://twitter.com/DuncanCastles/status/1042158403441844237?s=19

The juicy comments :P

Rossi IRL

Dalot has got the ball twice.......

Has looked more promising than Tony V has so far this season going forward.

Liam McPoyle

Rossi IRL wrote: »

Dalot has got the ball twice.......

Has looked more promising than Tony V has so far this season going forward.

That wouldn't be hard tbf but he has started brightly for sure. Fast and strong.

Mars Bar

Is this being played on astro?

Rossi IRL

Mars Bar wrote: »

Is this being played on astro?

Sure is, referee even said the astro is a bit harder than usual.

Trigger

I hate plastic pitches.. cant believe Bohs are gonna put one of these into new Dalymount! Ugh

Mars Bar

Mars Bar wrote: »

Is this being played on astro?

It looks so wrong for a CL group match.

These lads counter fast!