Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2018/2019 [Mod note 31-Aug-18]

How Soon Is Now

TheDoc wrote: »

Need to really start putting the wheels in motion to get Sanchez out of here in January. Stick with Martial and Rashford back sharing that role, or get a new LW and get Martial moving to. The signing has totally backfired and it's getting ridiculous now. Need to just draw a line under it and move on entirely.

His wages are a problem no one is gonna pay him what he's looking for.

pjohnson

[Deleted User] wrote: »

You keep saying that jose doesnt coach attacking play but ex players say he does

I also think prpfessional players themselves should have enough ability to manage to do better than they are. But hey ho. The players are completely helpless and havent a notion what to do unless its coached into them.

TheDoc

Deleted User wrote: »

You keep saying that jose doesnt coach attacking play but ex players say he does

And plenty have said he doesn't : /

It's also just bleeding obvious at this stage when you watch us. You watch Liverpool or City routinely move through repetitive movements and patterns and score for fun and you watch us against the same problems absolutely huff and puff into chaos and hit a brick wall.

irishfeen

8pts now behind Liverpool and maybe Chelsea after 6 games.. just not good enough!

TheDoc

pjohnson wrote: »

I also think prpfessional players themselves should have enough ability to manage to do better than they are. But hey ho. The players are completely helpless and havent a notion what to do unless its coached into them.

If footballers could work it all out themselves then whats the point of having coaches, who typically are never as good footballers....

Even the elite require guidance, coaching and work. We also operate a relatively young forward line.

Our players clearly have the ability and talent to do it. But they clearly don't have the organisation and training, when you frequently see them trying to dribble past multiple players, popping random long shots or just lopping it intothe box. The rarity for us is nice interplay or some form of nice movement.

For all the possesion and domination we have in games, and I havn't looked at the stats, but it feels like we created **** all chances throughout a game.

adox

How the **** can anyone pick Martial to stay at the club ahead of Sanchez is beyond me. Both have been poor but Martial has been at the club much longer and been poor for longer.
I seriously have my doubts about Sanchez now but I wouldn’t be keeping Martial either way. He epitomizes the type of player we don’t need and what is wrong with the squad.

Utd aren’t challenging anytime soon. Some medium term planning is needed, maybe a three year plan or something. Time to swallow the medicine.

The squad needs to be gutted and re built in that time and perhaps then be in a position to challenge with whoever is in charge.

There’s maybe three players I’d be happy to keep and the rest can do one.

Of course none of the above will happen. Jose will be gone next summer at the latest. We will sign another three players with a new man in charge and off we go again with the utter mediocrity.

TheDoc

TheDoc wrote: »

And plenty have said he doesn't : /

It's also just bleeding obvious at this stage when you watch us. You watch Liverpool or City routinely move through repetitive movements and patterns and score for fun and you watch us against the same problems absolutely huff and puff into chaos and hit a brick wall.

Look if you think Jose spends his whole time just coaching the defensive side of the game in training every week, your Jose bias is beyond blind.

I've reference Duff on thread when he said he coaches attacking play, but you have never pointed to anyone who has said it just repeating it over again which players have said he doesn't hat you've heard?

TheDoc

I think saying our top 4 chances are gone is a premature call. Genuinely think Wolves will cause plenty of upsets. I'm not as angry over today as I normally am. Was feeling really positive actually until the last 20 minutes when it descended into essentially what will be likely the epitah of this regime, pumped balls into Fellaini.

Dropping as many points this early clearly isnt ideal, but there is no excuses for this team to not put together a proper run or a winning streak. The only reasons will be manager and players themselves.

Adamcp898

Why did Jose risk changing our shape at half time. I know it was an attempt to give us some sort of an attacking footprint after another toothless first half but as soon as he unwelded Fellaini from his defensive role in front of the CB's then we looked so exposed and conceded the goal.

From there we had no choice but to try and figure out some way to create a chance and couldn't go back to our first half shape. But by the time Martial/Mata came on our shape had gone to hell, Lingard just can't play that role at the front of a midfield 3. He doesn't know the spaces and movement required and drops much too deep to try and collect the ball from players he shouldn't be because fwiw some of Fred and Pogba's play and interchanging in that area had been decent.

And by the time Pereira came on and Fellaini was put up top you can't really criticise Martial/Mata imo much because they just don't have a role to play any longer. Always says something about Lukaku too when a centre forward of his size and shape can't be used as a target man, was pure and utter ****e today and just has no way of getting himself involved in a game by himself.



Just another day of more evidence as to why we needed to buy a whole list of players in the Summer. At the end of it all, at half time we needed to move the player who had been the best defensively in the first half further up the field so that we could attempt to offer an attacking threat. But who knew a plan like that could have holes in it Ed?

TheDoc

Deleted User wrote: »

Look if you think Jose spends his whole time just coaching the defensive side of the game in training every week, your Jose bias is beyond blind.

I've reference Duff on thread when he said he coaches attacking play, but you have never pointed to anyone who has said it just repeating it over again which players have said he doesn't hat you've heard?

I shared links on this before.

I also outlined previously I'm not your personal google. I'm not going hunting the web for youtube links where its mentioned, article links, the books its referenced and the god knows how many times I've heard it over the last 5-8 years on podcasts, Tv shows or analyst shows.

If that means to you "liar" so be it, you don't have to engage.

I've no doubt work is done with attackers and the team in possesion, but there is literally not one pattern or development that has occured in his time that anyone would consider "developed" or "worked on" that hasn't been a cross to Fellaini at the back post.

Not coached correctly, not modern, not right, not done properly use whatever terminology you want, but it's pretty obvious this team can't attack properly what so ever.

Oranage2

irishfeen wrote: »

8pts now behind Liverpool and maybe Chelsea after 6 games.. just not good enough!

Is it really that surprising ? Besides De Gea, none of the other starters today could be guaranteed a spot in the Liverpool starting 11.

Mod Edit: User has been thread banned for this and other posts.

Lord TSC

bucketybuck wrote: »

They should be, but you will hear plenty of people still claim they are all class players, despite all evidence to the contrary. Most of them will probably get yet another chance with the next manager, with the inevitable results.

Which is why I wish if Jose was going to get the boot, it would just happen so we can get that misconception dealt with this season (which is already a write off) and go into the summer with eyes wide open....

TheDoc

TheDoc wrote: »

I shared links on this before.

I also outlined previously I'm not your personal google. I'm not going hunting the web for youtube links where its mentioned, article links, the books its referenced and the god knows how many times I've heard it over the last 5-8 years on podcasts, Tv shows or analyst shows.

If that means to you "liar" so be it, you don't have to engage.

I've no doubt work is done with attackers and the team in possesion, but there is literally not one pattern or development that has occured in his time that anyone would consider "developed" or "worked on" that hasn't been a cross to Fellaini at the back post.

Not coached correctly, not modern, not right, not done properly use whatever terminology you want, but it's pretty obvious this team can't attack properly what so ever.

You said plenty of players said he doesnt coach attacking play if its so many I thought you might be easily able to back it up.

All ive seen you do is repeat the point without mentioing any names . Ive no idea if you lying or not and didnt accuse you of such just simply stated Ive never seen you able to back up the point you keep repeating

PhlegmyMoses

Oranage2 wrote: »

Is it really that surprising ? Besides De Gea, none of the other starters today could be guaranteed a spot in the Liverpool starting 11.

You're trying hard huh?

Hoofball, United vrs Pool XIs. All the classics

pjohnson

TheDoc wrote: »

I think saying our top 4 chances are gone is a premature call. Genuinely think Wolves will cause plenty of upsets. I'm not as angry over today as I normally am. Was feeling really positive actually until the last 20 minutes when it descended into essentially what will be likely the epitah of this regime, pumped balls into Fellaini.

Dropping as many points this early clearly isnt ideal, but there is no excuses for this team to not put together a proper run or a winning streak. The only reasons will be manager and players themselves.

Oh so you actually do lay some responsibility at least on the players. Thats something.

Oranage2

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

You're trying hard huh?

Hoofball, United vrs Pool XIs. All the classics

I'm stating facts that are as clear as day

Mod Edit: User has been thread banned for this and other posts.

nullzero

We're at a point where we need to build a side from youth already at the club. Our transfer business has been appalling since Ferguson left and wasn't all that good when he was here.
We're going to continue to pay through the nose for mediocre players so we may as well attempt to build something cohesive from the ground up.
The noises about Ozil arriving in January are nauseating as he is a player well past his best and does not bring any impetus into the side if he arrives, just another massive wage bill for another passenger.

PhlegmyMoses

nullzero wrote: »

We're at a point where we need to build a side from youth already at the club. Our transfer business has been appalling since Ferguson left and wasn't all that good when he was here.
We're going to continue to pay through the nose for mediocre players so we may as well attempt to build something cohesive from the ground up.
The noises about Ozil arriving in January are nauseating as he is a player well past his best and does not bring any impetus into the side if he arrives, just another massive wage bill for another passenger.

Building from youth will destroy the club. No top teams are doing it that way for a reason. The other clubs are showing us the actual way to do it. Identify the problem areas and throw ****loads at it for the exact player you need with a cohesive idea of how you want to play. We are not doing that at all.

bucketybuck

Oranage2 wrote: »

Embarrassment. Blame lies on Jose, you can't play defensive at home to wolves, long balls to Fellaini isnt an attacking masterplan. A true specialist in boredom!!!

Oranage2 wrote: »

Is it really that surprising ? Besides De Gea, none of the other starters today could be guaranteed a spot in the Liverpool starting 11.

Oranage2 wrote: »

I'm stating facts that are as clear as day

For posterity.

Drumpot

Lord TSC wrote: »

Which is why I wish if Jose was going to get the boot, it would just happen so we can get that misconception dealt with this season (which is already a write off) and go into the summer with eyes wide open....

Agreed. I’ve said it before , we are Liverpool of the 90s.

The club has been on a downward spiral since Gill and SAF left, not just since Jose arrived. I think it will prob take another 2 or 3 managers before some people cop on to the real issue.

If I had a choice right now I would say to the board just get Jose who he wants. Let him get rid of who he doesn’t want. I trust Jose more then I do the out of depth Woodward and glazers whose commercial priorities (including certain signings) is costing us big time on the pitch....

Good luck to the next chump to take on this poisoned chalice. It’s surpassing the English job as most toxic one!!!

Drumpot

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

Building from youth will destroy the club. No top teams are doing it that way for a reason. The other clubs are showing us the actual way to do it. Identify the problem areas and throw ****loads at it for the exact player you need with a cohesive idea of how you want to play. We are not doing that at all.

“Results do nothing to affect commercial might” Woodward

New Sponcor signing on deadline day....

Keep players a manager doesn’t want and don’t sign players a manager does want....

This manager is the problem .... :pac:

Mantis Toboggan

8 points behind already and it's still only September. Can't say it's a shock though we're atrocious.

We really should have got rid of him when we had the chance now we have to watch this muck for the rest of the season and wait for the inevitable.

Mantis Toboggan

Mantis Toboggan wrote: »

8 points behind already and it's still only September. Can't say it's a shock though we're atrocious.

We really should have got rid of him when we had the chance now we have to watch this muck for the rest of the season and wait for the inevitable.

Martial?

Turtwig

Deleted User wrote: »

Martial?

Pogba. Jeez get with the program.

Adamcp898

Deleted User wrote: »

Martial?

de Gea.

If it wasn't for him then the club would've fell way down the table long ago and the owners sacked the board allowing us to rebuild.

But the incompetent Ed Woodward tripped over the fax line and managed to bungle his way out of yet another mess.

Mantis Toboggan

Adamcp898 wrote: »

de Gea.

If it wasn't for him then the club would've fell way down the table long ago and the owners sacked the board allowing us to rebuild.

But the incompetent Ed Woodward tripped over the fax line and managed to bungle his way out of yet another mess.

Surely up there as one of Fergie's best signings, god knows where we'd be without him.

Adamcp898

Mantis Toboggan wrote: »

Surely up there as one of Fergie's best signings, god knows where we'd be without him.

Easily.

Best in the world and has genuinely resulted in us out-performing our realistic position to a degree.

DM_7

Drumpot wrote: »

Agreed. I’ve said it before , we are Liverpool of the 90s.

The club has been on a downward spiral since Gill and SAF left, not just since Jose arrived. I think it will prob take another 2 or 3 managers before some people cop on to the real issue.

If I had a choice right now I would say to the board just get Jose who he wants. Let him get rid of who he doesn’t want. I trust Jose more then I do the out of depth Woodward and glazers whose commercial priorities (including certain signings) is costing us big time on the pitch....

Good luck to the next chump to take on this poisoned chalice. It’s surpassing the English job as most toxic one!!!

We are more Liverpool under Benitez.

"We've always done well against the bigger teams", "But we've always struggled against a Fulham at home or West Brom at home, when they park the bus and we haven't got that bit if magic to open them up". Steven Gerrard on Liverpool.

Like Benitez, Jose has a cautious and reactive approach.

The difference with Jose is he has history of finding that magic. But is reliant on players to conjure it up with his decensive system supporting it. At Chelsea it was Robben and Duff then Cesc and Hazard. Inter had Sneijder. Real had guys like Ozil and unreal firepower in Ronaldo. At United he does not have that.

At Chelsea in year one he had a side who conceded 15 league goals with 25 clean sheets. First 9 games had just 10 goals (8 for, 3
2 against) while Arsenal had 29. Then Robben arrived and they scored 30 in the next nine.

That was first a side who gave nothing away and had a great base. Then Robben arrived and he had flying wingers who dribbled, ran directly and caused havoc. They did not spend time passing around in midfield going nowhere and leaving themselves open to a counter. In fact possession was not thought of as important to have but a chance to take advantage of mistakes.

As well as the player issues, Jose seems to have lost the guts to play the way he used to. For some reason he has United faffing about with a poor, slow passing game that is easy to defend against. United now play in a way Jose would love to face, a team who pass it with little menace and are likely to lose the ball badly due to a mistake which his team could pounce on. He has to accept and take a portion of the blame for that.

xtal191

The starting 11 needs huge investment, there's way too many players that are squad players at best and others that just need to go.

Its actually ridiculous that we need such investment considering the amount of money spent since Fergie retired, our transfer dealings have been ****ing horrible.

rob316

Before you invest a structure is the most important thing. As a Liverpool fan I've seen bad player after bad player play at anfield sprinkled with the odd world class player who we enevitably lose when they get sick of the mediocrity and lack of proper direction and investment. For first time ever as a Liverpool fan I'm excited we have a squad, manager, recruitment team, board and owners all working together.
It has resulted in a season on season improvement on the pitch and squad capable of challenging for the biggest trophies.

United need to get off the fence and back him or sack him but honestly I believe ye're current board is content with Top 4.

City are the same the brought in a recruitment team with a medium term to building a team for gaurdiola. They look set to dominate for years now.

Sgt Pepper 64

If Klopp was in charge at Utd, he would be rubbing his hands at the amount of attacking talent.

Sanchez carried Arsenal at times
Pogba is a shadow of the player he was at Juve
Lukaku was banging them in at everton...everton ffs!
Linegard and Maritial are very capable players

I'm shocked utd arent doing better but then I remember who is the coach and im somehow not surprised

Adapt or die, and Im afraid Jose's football is an endangered species

AidoEirE

Sgt Pepper 64 wrote: »

If Klopp was in charge at Utd, he would be rubbing his hands at the amount of attacking talent.

Sanchez carried Arsenal at times
Pogba is a shadow of the player he was at Juve
Lukaku was banging them in at everton...everton ffs!
Linegard and Maritial are very capable players

I'm shocked utd arent doing better but then I remember who is the coach and im somehow not surprised

Adapt or die, and Im afraid Jose's football is an endangered species

Sanchez has been abosultely woeful for us over the course of the seasons. Why is it he has a brilliant pre-season but cant do it when it counts.
Lukaku last season was 2nd top scorer i think in the league last season.
Lingard has been so-so, good squad player and a work horse.
Martial just hasnt been bothered for us since he lost his place. If the rumours are true and he's waiting till jose leaves why play so poorly in the mean time. Not like if a new manager comes in he suddenly remembers how to play for the team. Do it week in and out and fight for your place instead of pussing and pissing about.

Rayne Wooney

Klopp who has won 3 trophies in 17 years of management

TitianGerm

AidoEirE wrote: »

Lukaku last season was 2nd top scorer i think in the league last season.

He got 16 in the league last year. Half Salahs total and behind Kane, Augero, Vardy and Sterling as well.

Edit: or did you mean it's his second best league tally?

IncognitoMan

I think there has been better play over the last few weeks since the spurs game. Its not perfect or even good enough yet but I'm happy to wait and see what happens now.

Sure everytime United drop points there will be those coming in to say the same stuff and after spurs I would have agreed. Not now though, I think there is something positive finally happening at the club. I think some of that is potentially down to Carrick and McKenna.

54and56

Sgt Pepper 64 wrote: »

If Klopp was in charge at Utd, he would be rubbing his hands at the amount of attacking talent.

Sanchez carried Arsenal at times
Pogba is a shadow of the player he was at Juve
Lukaku was banging them in at everton...everton ffs!
Linegard and Maritial are very capable players

I'm shocked utd arent doing better but then I remember who is the coach and im somehow not surprised

Adapt or die, and Im afraid Jose's football is an endangered species

Completely disagree.

Jose is the right man for the job at Utd, he wants to build a long term legacy at the club and will be given as much time as he wants to achieve that.

He just needs to be given time.

AidoEirE

TitianGerm wrote: »

He got 16 in the league last year. Half Salahs total and behind Kane, Augero, Vardy and Sterling as well.

Edit: or did you mean it's his second best league tally?

You might have me there, i wasnt sure but for some reason thought he was in the 20's. Apologies, i should have done a quick google to be fair.

IncognitoMan

In all competitions he would have been in the 20s. That's probably where the confusion came

giveitholly

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

Klopp who has won 3 trophies in 17 years of management

Presume you are comparing his record to mourinho,if klopp had managed the clubs with the resources mourinho managed do you think he would of only won 3 trophies,similarly if mourinho had managed the clubs klopp has do you honestly think mourinho would of won as much,pointless comparing in my opinion

AidoEirE

giveitholly wrote: »

Presume you are comparing his record to mourinho,if klopp had managed the clubs with the resources mourinho managed do you think he would of only won 3 trophies,similarly if mourinho had managed the clubs klopp has do you honestly think mourinho would of won as much,pointless comparing in my opinion

Done more with Milan and Porto to be fair, winning the best cup going, with not as big a budget he had at the bigger clubs.
Agree though that comparisons like that arent great

Adamcp898

giveitholly wrote: »

Presume you are comparing his record to mourinho,if klopp had managed the clubs with the resources mourinho managed do you think he would of only won 3 trophies,similarly if mourinho had managed the clubs klopp has do you honestly think mourinho would of won as much,pointless comparing in my opinion

Win the Champion's League with a "small" club and you'll get a go at the bigger ones

secman

Je_suis_Jean wrote: »

Completely disagree.

Jose is the right man for the job at Utd, he wants to build a long term legacy at the club and will be given as much time as he wants to achieve that.

He just needs to be given time.

Jesus I despair at the thought of it, truly despair if we have to endure him for any longer.

adox

secman wrote: »

Jesus I despair at the thought of it, truly despair if we have to endure him for any longer.

Don’t believe everything you read

#incoming

Robson99

Je_suis_Jean wrote: »

Completely disagree.

Jose is the right man for the job at Utd, he wants to build a long term legacy at the club and will be given as much time as he wants to achieve that.

He just needs to be given time.

Hes finished. Yesterdays man. The game has moved on and he hasn't. Time to get rid of him

limnam

Robson99 wrote: »

Hes finished. Yesterdays man. The game has moved on and he hasn't. Time to get rid of him

WTF does that even mean. "the game has moved on" meaningless rubbish.


The game moved on for Arsenal, we beat them twice last year. They finished below us


The game moved for spurs, we beat them twice last year. They finished below us.


The game moved on for Chelsea, we bet them they beat us, they finished below us.



The game has moved for Liverpool, Beat them at home drew away, they finished below us


The game moved for City, we were the only team to beat them at home, they beat us away. They finished above us.


How has the game moved on?


What's so different about today, last year, the year before that wasn't there when he won the league with chelsea?


What's this big change people keep stealing from some idiot on the TV and have decided it's a fact so role out it on here?

Rayne Wooney

The game has moved on from Mourinho since he’s won the league, the league cup twice, and the europa league in the last 3 years.

skinny90

The game has moved on from the likes of Jose. We need reactive management who can identify holes in a team and actually get the right players into fill them. Jose has had plenty of time to sort out our defence and what has become of that. I could go on about other areas of the team but this has been a core issue since he took over. Too much sloppy goals giving away. Bottom line is that we are too predictable to play against even at home. We do not kill games when we are ahead and they know that they will have plenty of chances to get a draw or maybe a win even it’s in OT.
there has not been any consistency with his teams and too many games lost or drawn where we really need to be winning.

limnam

skinny90 wrote: »

The game has moved on from the likes of Jose.

How has the game changed? What's different about it Since his last major trophy?


Like less than two years ago ?

skinny90 wrote: »

We need reactive management who can identify holes in a team and actually get the right players into fill them. Jose has had plenty of time to sort out our defence and what has become of that. I could go on about other areas of the team but this has been a core issue since he took over. Too much sloppy goals giving away. Bottom line is that we are too predictable to play against even at home. We do not kill games when we are ahead and they know that they will have plenty of chances to get a draw or maybe a win even it’s in OT.
there has not been any consistency with his teams and too many games lost or drawn where we really need to be winning.

None of what you just said has anything to do with the "game changing"

TitianGerm

limnam wrote: »

WTF does that even mean. "the game has moved on" meaningless rubbish.


The game moved on for Arsenal, we beat them twice last year. They finished below us


The game moved for spurs, we beat them twice last year. They finished below us.


The game moved on for Chelsea, we bet them they beat us, they finished below us.



The game has moved for Liverpool, Beat them at home drew away, they finished below us


The game moved for City, we were the only team to beat them at home, they beat us away. They finished above us.


How has the game moved on?


What's so different about today, last year, the year before that wasn't there when he won the league with chelsea?


What's this big change people keep stealing from some idiot on the TV and have decided it's a fact so role out it on here?

8 points behind first after 6 games and already conceded a third of your seasons total compared to last year. Is that not worrying?

limnam

TitianGerm wrote: »

8 points behind first after 6 games and already conceded a third of your seasons total compared to last year. Is that not worrying?

What has it got to do with the "game changing"