Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2018/2019 [Mod note 31-Aug-18]

Turtwig

Je_suis_Jean wrote: »

Isn't posting non Manchester Utd talk/rumours/gossip against the forum charter?

Mod:

Only if it's done excessively. Besides it appears you're just arguing posters for the sake of it. Do NOT post in this thread again.

jayo26

Quandary wrote: »

Today you spout this....



A few weeks ago you spout this....





Do you deliberately contradict yourself or what? You know it's very possible to come in here and antagonize Utd fans in a much more tactful way using a bit of guile.

It's just sad how bad you are at this.

I'm not saying he is talking nonsense but I think this post makes it look like he is talking nonsense so maybe he is talking nonsense but I donno but either ways he is a welcome poster to this thread we all really value his opinions so long may he continue to engage in such an insightful manner.

J. Marston

Probably back to the Liverpool thread now....

"Hurr hurr, see that lads? I'm mad!"

Cantona's Collars

J. Marston wrote: »

Probably back to the Liverpool thread now....

"Hurr hurr, see that lads? I'm mad!"

He probably feels victimised here though seeing as nobody put up with the bullsh1t.

Turtwig

J. Marston wrote: »

Probably back to the Liverpool thread now....

"Hurr hurr, see that lads? I'm mad!"

Cantona's Collars wrote: »

He probably feels victimised here though seeing as nobody put up with the bullsh1t.

Just move on from it and leave aside the cross thread/ cross supporters stuff.
Thanks.

bangkok

Mr.Crinklewood

I'm giving free hugs.

xtal191

https://twitter.com/mjcritchley/status/1043978501467099142

Rayne Wooney

I’ve got to admit it’s verging on weakness from Mourinho still playing him when he is constantly undermining the man.

Will I Am Not

If you read that article without the headline I don’t think you read it as criticism of Mourinho.

Turtwig

Will I Am Not wrote: »

If you read that article without the headline I don’t think you read it as criticism of Mourinho.

Pogba should know better though. The second he mentions something like this it gives journalists at a press conference ammunition to distort Pogba's interview and get a soundbyte from Jose to keep fuelling the fire of speculation of a rift between the two. Simply put he should know better than not to comment explicitly on playstyle at the moment.

LiamoSail

Will I Am Not wrote: »

If you read that article without the headline I don’t think you read it as criticism of Mourinho.

He mentions to him being "just a player" as he states that the side should be attacking more. It's clearly a reference to/criticism of Mourinho. It's not more explicit presumably because he's being guarded, but not sure how it could be interpreted as anything but a serious issue between Mourinho and Pogba

Rayne Wooney

“Pogba was then asked what was stopping United from taking a more adventurous approach and pointed out that, as a player, he is not responsible for the approach United adopt. “I can’t tell you because I’m a player,” he said. “It’s not me.””

His subtlety is getting better, but you can still see through it. He is 100% gone from United before next September.

Will I Am Not

I only got as far as the first quotes, didn’t see the second part.

How Soon Is Now

People are going to read that article and look into what he's saying as "Jose won't let us play"

Weather it's true or not he's undermined the manager on numerous occasions this season and last. At this stage he knows he can get away with it as well.

LiamoSail

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

“Pogba was then asked what was stopping United from taking a more adventurous approach and pointed out that, as a player, he is not responsible for the approach United adopt. “I can’t tell you because I’m a player,” he said. “It’s not me.””

His subtlety is getting better, but you can still see through it. He is 100% gone from United before next September.

it sounds like someone's gone before
Next September, not necessarily Pogba

Will I Am Not

I don’t see how he can even say that anyway. United attacked in that game, they just didn’t do anything with it in the final third. Nothing to do with tactics.

JaMarcus

LiamoSail wrote: »

it sounds like someone's gone before
Next September, not necessarily Pogba

Hopefully both, tbh.

Rayne Wooney

LiamoSail wrote: »

it sounds like someone's gone before
Next September, not necessarily Pogba

If Mourinho is sacked I think 2013-2023 for United will look similar to Liverpool record in the 90s.

Even keeping Mourinho around is not guaranteeing anything, the club don’t look prepared to back him or anyone against the Guardiola machine and even if the funds were available Guardiola has had a massive head start.

AidoEirE

Mark critchley forwards to some click bait site, Castles does the same, so many people post some absolute nonsense on twitter.
That click bait site, took it off somewhere else and spin it to suit their narritive.
Would rather those **** twittet posts weren't posted here, as much as we all have our points, pretty sure a lot of us have the intelligence to not promote that bull****

bassy

hey lads going over in november for the weekend,anyone recommend good pubs in manchester in the city also any good irish ones?.

Lord TSC

Another game, another interview with Pogba bemoaning Jose.

Agree with Jose or not, but the level of unprofessionalism from Pogba to do this after every league game is shocking. At least Moyes and Van Gaal just had to deal with "sources in the United dressing room"....

Not allowed to accuse another poster of trolling, but what about a player?

I'm not sure what Pogba's end goal is here, whether he is trying to get himself or the manager out.

secman

It's going to be a long season of discontent by the looks of it, with our only chance of success , a lower end cup and a possible dog fight for top 4. Fcking sad state of affairs
Weakness from the boardroom all the way to management and players. No one to sort this mess out, unfortunstely.

S.M.B.

As far as Pogba comments go, these ones aren't the worst and if it weren't for the context of the "troubled relationship" this would be a non-story.

If anything it looks badly on Pogba himself. I seriously doubt Jose went in at half time saying that he wanted his United team to sit back and defend for the remaining 45 minutes.

pjohnson

Lord TSC wrote: »

Another game, another interview with Pogba bemoaning Jose.

Agree with Jose or not, but the level of unprofessionalism from Pogba to do this after every league game is shocking. At least Moyes and Van Gaal just had to deal with "sources in the United dressing room"....

He had actually played well aswell. The better he plays the more whingy his comments seems to be the pattern.

yabadabado

Deleted User wrote: »

Not allowed to accuse another poster of trolling, but what about a player?

I'm not sure what Pogba's end goal is here, whether he is trying to get himself or the manager out.

Jose will probably be sacked in the summer imo but if I was the new manager coming in I'd probably want Pogba shipped out asap as well.

Rayne Wooney

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

I’ve got to admit it’s verging on weakness from Mourinho still playing him when he is constantly undermining the man.

Take him out of the side so and what are we left with?
What's the alternative?
It's all well and good saying drop players but what's the plan thereafter?

We don't utilize the right side at all. It's null and void.
We got glimpses of what a fresh 19 year old can do in CL. I'd say we will see more positive play from the right side in the Caraboa Cup this week but he's still in-experienced. We can't be banking on that to mount a challenge.

Majority of the attacking outlet comes from center (Pogab) and left side (Shaw).
I think Pogba has created and or assisted the majority of our goals so far this season in all competitions.

As much as lads like to hammer Lukakau too I can only remember one or two instances (again from Pogba and Shaw) where he actually got service in the box on Saturday.

That's not enough, he needs to be getting 10+ chances a game like any other Striker to expect goals from him week in week out.

Lord TSC

yabadabado wrote: »

Jose will probably be sacked in the summer imo but if I was the new manager coming in I'd probably want Pogba shipped out asap as well.

If and when Jose goes, the manager will be chosen to continue trying to build round Pogba. We've tried everything else with him under Jose, so time to try that, I guess.....

I think that's why Zidane is getting linked so heavily too. A French midfielder himself. Coming in to carry Pogba forward into greatness. It's an easy story for the press...

bangkok

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2018/sep/23/paul-pogba-manchester-united-wolves


Theres the full article for anyone who wants to read it. Everything he says is bang on, there are no digs at jose and he is basically saying the exact same thing jose said after the game and what everyone in here has said after the game

Rossi IRL

Just read the article there. He was spot on in what he said. Should he have said it, probably not, he isn't club captain but what he said many here have been saying for a few years.

We don't create enough chances and teams are not afraid of us anymore.

Not the only one who notices this major problem

Rossi IRL

Fred The Red wrote: »

Not the only one who notices this major problem

At least he will be playing the cup game.

DM_7

I really don't get what Jose is trying to do with United.

I think it is crying out for a back to basics, if he used two DMs he could have 5 behind the ball at all times (one full back get forward) to privide a solid defence.

He could then allow Pogba to be the playmaker with more freedom to go where he has space to provide. Let Sanchez have his pick of the full back he wants to attack and run at. Lukaku can be the focal point. Then pick whichever forward he thinks is best for the game.

TheDoc

How Soon Is Now wrote: »

People are going to read that article and look into what he's saying as "Jose won't let us play"

Weather it's true or not he's undermined the manager on numerous occasions this season and last. At this stage he knows he can get away with it as well.

He's not wrong either. His own performances aside, his own involvement and responsibility as well, just what he is saying, he seems spot on to me.

Even referencing the games where we did play noticeably different, in the faces, on the front foot. We play Wolves at home, and sit back when they have possesion, so frightened of their counter attack. It's pityful to watch at times.

Good players like playing fast, on the front foot and using their strengths. It's not rocket science.

The level of confusion you see game to game when the opposition have the ball in their half. You will see some of our players instinctively go to close down tight, some drop off deep, and they are all finger pointing and shouting at each other.

Mhikitaryian got reefed off against City because of this confusion, and over a year later it's still confusing players.

It's not a major thing, but it's all these small things that are adding up causing the overarching problem.

Take a look next game, be interesting to see. It's visible every single game where we noticably arn't hounding down and pressing. At the weekend there was occasion where Lukaku was extremely frustrated trying to close down their defence but Lingard and Sanchez had dropped back into our own half. There was occasions where Lingard pressed but again the rest were dropping back into shape in our own half.

Wolves....at home.

Either the entire team presses and moves forward as a group, or we simply don't press at all. The reason there is that individual effort is age old instinct from the player and also playing to the stands. The crowd would go mad, and rightly so, if when an opposition gets the ball we entirely retreat to our own half.

TheDoc

Will I Am Not wrote: »

I don’t see how he can even say that anyway. United attacked in that game, they just didn’t do anything with it in the final third. Nothing to do with tactics.

Had absolutely everything to do with tactics.

I totally appreciate his frustration too. He is an immense passer of the ball. There was a shocking amount of times he had the ball, looked up quickly, no one moving or making runs and ended up laying off short or holding onto it too long.

He was visibly frustrated multiple times through the game shouting at the forward line to do something or make a run.

This is where there is the difference in how when Van Gaal used to say we were an attacking team but people would be like "what".

We dominated possession at the weekend, we moved the play offensively, we did what constitutes attacking, but with absolutely no rythm or reason.

It's fundamentally an issue with tactics. The fact people lashed out at Lukaku, is a reaction to how starved our team gets of creating clear cut chances. We want Lukaku to operate some form of 90% efficeny, where as Pro.F used to also state and share the facts, the best strikers in the world or the decade, only operate a 40-50% conversation rate from chances.

If we want to score goals we need to create chances. It's not rocket science and it's not me being condescending, but we don't create chances with regularity. We are reliant on on the myth of "ruthless striking" which has long since being debunked.

The age old commentator line of "he has to be scoring there"

Backstreet Moyes

Lord TSC wrote: »

If and when Jose goes, the manager will be chosen to continue trying to build round Pogba. We've tried everything else with him under Jose, so time to try that, I guess.....

I think that's why Zidane is getting linked so heavily too. A French midfielder himself. Coming in to carry Pogba forward into greatness. It's an easy story for the press...

Not a hope Zidane would take the job unless he was given a few hundred million for new signings.

Struggling to think a proven successful manager who would want the job.

Adamcp898

My only issue with these calls to attack more, and it's specific to the Wolves game, is things only completely fell apart when we changed at half time and Fellaini was told he could advance more. Yes we were toothless in the first half but it was only when we specifically tried to attack more that we suddenly looked completely exposed and all at sea.

That alone should give an indication as to just why we don't play free flowing attacking football. The balance in the side simply isn't there and our hodge podge back four made up of centre halves who will never be good enough paired with aging wingers has shown time and time again it can't be relied upon unless there's a midfielder tasked with the sole purpose of shielding it.

It was the exact same under LvG and it's still true now, we don't have a defence that can defend and so we have to expend midfield resources bolstering it. That then means our transitions into build-up play are slow and attack after attack is slower and slower.

The_Kew_Tour

Everyone is entitled to a Bad Game but Valencia has abused that privilege

DM_7

TheDoc wrote: »

Had absolutely everything to do with tactics.

I totally appreciate his frustration too. He is an immense passer of the ball. There was a shocking amount of times he had the ball, looked up quickly, no one moving or making runs and ended up laying off short or holding onto it too long.

He was visibly frustrated multiple times through the game shouting at the forward line to do something or make a run.

This is where there is the difference in how when Van Gaal used to say we were an attacking team but people would be like "what".

We dominated possession at the weekend, we moved the play offensively, we did what constitutes attacking, but with absolutely no rythm or reason.

It's fundamentally an issue with tactics. The fact people lashed out at Lukaku, is a reaction to how starved our team gets of creating clear cut chances. We want Lukaku to operate some form of 90% efficeny, where as Pro.F used to also state and share the facts, the best strikers in the world or the decade, only operate a 40-50% conversation rate from chances.

If we want to score goals we need to create chances. It's not rocket science and it's not me being condescending, but we don't create chances with regularity. We are reliant on on the myth of "ruthless striking" which has long since being debunked.

The age old commentator line of "he has to be scoring there"

Jose often gives up the ball against the best sides. Against teams where United have to control the ball they can't break them down and be comfortable in defence. Which makes me wonder why bother?

Play looser, encourage the other side to come out and pounce on what should be inevitable mistakes. Not everytime but make Uniteds approach less predictable.

Even little things like letting a foward play in differant positions makes it harder to stop them. Sanchez for example is not playing well but part of that has to be he is easy to stop in such a predictable team.

United rarely introduce variables that upset predictable patterns and take advantage of the quick minds the best players have.

Adamcp898

Damage control time.

https://twitter.com/paulpogba/status/1044180366733561856

Adamocovic

Be interesting to see the changes and how we do against Derby. I know this place wasn't in great spirits last few days but gives a chance to move on a little.

Hoping the fringe players put in some good performances and we can extend the unbeaten streak.

TheDoc

Adamcp898 wrote: »

My only issue with these calls to attack more, and it's specific to the Wolves game, is things only completely fell apart when we changed at half time and Fellaini was told he could advance more. Yes we were toothless in the first half but it was only when we specifically tried to attack more that we suddenly looked completely exposed and all at sea.

That alone should give an indication as to just why we don't play free flowing attacking football. The balance in the side simply isn't there and our hodge podge back four made up of centre halves who will never be good enough paired with aging wingers has shown time and time again it can't be relied upon unless there's a midfielder tasked with the sole purpose of shielding it.

It was the exact same under LvG and it's still true now, we don't have a defence that can defend and so we have to expend midfield resources bolstering it. That then means our transitions into build-up play are slow and attack after attack is slower and slower.

Your bang on. I was feeling really positive from the first half. Thought we were moving nicely in attack, things were a bit congested or complicated, but there was quick play and there was really positive signs when we attacked.

The minute you move Fellaini forward you are simply giving everyone, consciously or not, the plan for the remainder of the game.

I actually thought Fellaini only moved forward when we drew level no? Which was extremely frustrating as there was 60 mins played and we reverted to Fellaini ball.

Those moments are what seperates the good teams and the bad teams. The well coached and prepared teams and the haphazard ones. Typically when we are chasing a game or in adversity, we revert to a completely, unorganised chaotic formation and style of play that results in just "throw it in the mixer".

A few minutes to go and doing it is totally fine, but we effectively went 30 minutes with it. Just allows the opposition team sit back in tight and compact in the danger areas. And it's near impossible to break down.

Will I Am Not

TheDoc wrote: »

Had absolutely everything to do with tactics.

I totally appreciate his frustration too. He is an immense passer of the ball. There was a shocking amount of times he had the ball, looked up quickly, no one moving or making runs and ended up laying off short or holding onto it too long.

He was visibly frustrated multiple times through the game shouting at the forward line to do something or make a run.

This is where there is the difference in how when Van Gaal used to say we were an attacking team but people would be like "what".

We dominated possession at the weekend, we moved the play offensively, we did what constitutes attacking, but with absolutely no rythm or reason.

It's fundamentally an issue with tactics. The fact people lashed out at Lukaku, is a reaction to how starved our team gets of creating clear cut chances. We want Lukaku to operate some form of 90% efficeny, where as Pro.F used to also state and share the facts, the best strikers in the world or the decade, only operate a 40-50% conversation rate from chances.

If we want to score goals we need to create chances. It's not rocket science and it's not me being condescending, but we don't create chances with regularity. We are reliant on on the myth of "ruthless striking" which has long since being debunked.

The age old commentator line of "he has to be scoring there"

Whether it’s Rashford, Mata, Sanchez, Martial or Valencia, the team seems to be totally inept when it comes to playing the right pass/cross in the final third. Pogba is the only one who consistently creates chances and even then Lukaku is making a meal of too many of them this season.

There was plenty of opportunities on Saturday but they were brainless when it came to taking them.

Cantona's Collars

DM_7 wrote: »

Jose often gives up the ball against the best sides. Against teams where United have to control the ball they can't break them down and be comfortable in defence. Which makes me wonder why bother?

Play looser, encourage the other side to come out and pounce on what should be inevitable mistakes. Not everytime but make Uniteds approach less predictable.

Even littlr things like letting a foward play in differant positions makes it harder to stop them. Sanchez for example is not playing well but part of that has to be he is easy to stop in such a predictable team.

United rarely introduce variables that upset predictable patterns and take advantage of the quick minds the best players have.

You hit the nail on the head,the attack is so predictable that it's easy to defend against. All concentrated on the left side or through the centre. Players being static so often doesn't help. The play just isn't fluid enough. Wolves came out and attacked yet United couldn't capitalise on the break, they'd get so far up the field and the attack would break down or slow up so much that defenders were able to get back. We just don't pose enough of a threat and are a reactionary team rather than being on the front foot as much as possible.

rob316

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Everyone is entitled to a Bad Game but Valencia has abused that privilege

hes a 33 year old converted winger, its not his fault he's the only viable option at RB for so long.

bangkok

hope to see this team v Derby.....

---

romero

---

Dalot

---

Bailly

---

jones

---

young

---

pereira

---

---

mctominay----mata

---

---

lingard

---

martial

---

sanchez

Cantona's Collars

Do United have an attacking coach? If not then one is needed as the players at times look clueless.
I saw a video before of the team going through attacking drills until they knew without even looking where their teammates were running to and could play perfect passes.
No all we seem to see is overhit passes, straight to a defender or the ball going backwards.
Lukaku thrives on cute little passes in behind defenders but it's so rare to see them played.

TheDoc

DM_7 wrote: »

Jose often gives up the ball against the best sides. Against teams where United have to control the ball they can't break them down and be comfortable in defence. Which makes me wonder why bother?

Play looser, encourage the other side to come out and pounce on what should be inevitable mistakes. Not everytime but make Uniteds approach less predictable.

Even little things like letting a foward play in differant positions makes it harder to stop them. Sanchez for example is not playing well but part of that has to be he is easy to stop in such a predictable team.

United rarely introduce variables that upset predictable patterns and take advantage of the quick minds the best players have.

And you know there isn't one way to skin a cat. Everyone has different "ideas" about what is nice football or attractive football.

I find sterile possession based football boring a lot of the time. When it's quick and probing I like it, but like peak Barcalona I thought was an absolute snoozefest. But then a lot of people consider that the peak of modern football.

I only enjoyed that when they would move into the final third, and you could see these orchestrated movements, patterns and they would score lovely goals.

I think if I'm really honest with myself, where I really get mental over goals, is quicker counter attacks. I think that is my favourite type of football. But at the same time, it only fits certain models and clubs.

Counter attacking should be one of our tools, and strengths, but we should be, a club of our size and stature, dictating the vast majority of our games.

Counter attacking is difficult to do as the only method, because its easy to negate. But it doesn't feel like we have any strength or method of play all our players feel comfortable with and confident with.

Speed is key though. Ferguson's mantra was quick, frantic and unpredictable and I think he was spot on there. I'd even note there, he rarely to never managed the sessions himself. This was the requirement he gave his coaching team who achieved it.

Like if Jose was operating that I'd totally forgive him. If his staff weren't achieving what he wants. And maybe this new shakeup is part of that. Maybe if we knew, or I knew, I'd even cut him slack.

I don't expect him, single handedly, out on the training pitch orchestrating how we should attack. But I expect him to be delegating to people who know better than him. I don't get the vibes from any material that comes out that he does run the sessions or get heavily involved.

He has had teams who played with a style, a pattern or atleast all understood what was to happen. I'm consistently unable to understand how he is presiding over a team that is so haphazard as ours. The only conclusion that makes sense is a) He's lost it orb) He doesn't care.

I can't for a second believe a manager of his calibre thinks this is working or is ok

Adamcp898

TheDoc wrote: »

Your bang on. I was feeling really positive from the first half. Thought we were moving nicely in attack, things were a bit congested or complicated, but there was quick play and there was really positive signs when we attacked.

The minute you move Fellaini forward you are simply giving everyone, consciously or not, the plan for the remainder of the game.

I actually thought Fellaini only moved forward when we drew level no? Which was extremely frustrating as there was 60 mins played and we reverted to Fellaini ball.

Those moments are what seperates the good teams and the bad teams. The well coached and prepared teams and the haphazard ones. Typically when we are chasing a game or in adversity, we revert to a completely, unorganised chaotic formation and style of play that results in just "throw it in the mixer".

A few minutes to go and doing it is totally fine, but we effectively went 30 minutes with it. Just allows the opposition team sit back in tight and compact in the danger areas. And it's near impossible to break down.

I had him as being moved further forward from the beginning of the second half. To me he went from being the furthest back of the midfield 3 to being our most advanced midfielder. We didn't start the aimless punts to him then but just his removal from in front of the centre halves suddenly had us exposed and once we conceded the equaliser we couldn't go back to our first half shape while searching for a goal.

I'd agree with the positive signs you mention, didn't create any chances per se but I thought Fred was quite good as the furthest forward of the three and some of his quick play and interchange with Pogba around their box in the first half was very welcome. Our shape went to crap though when he was taken off and Lingard put in that position, he's just not able to play there and tries to collect the ball in the wrong areas.

And then the final nail in the coffin was Pereira coming on and Fellaini permanently moved up front. Completely negates bringing on Martial and Mata at all because doing it that early means the opposition just sit in and get used to dealing with it, all the while knowing that doing so also helps them to defend against Martial and Lukaku who are at their most dangerous when a game is stretched and there's space in behind.