Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2018/2019 [Mod note 31-Aug-18]

TheDoc

Cantona's Collars wrote: »

Do United have an attacking coach? If not then one is needed as the players at times look clueless.
I saw a video before of the team going through attacking drills until they knew without even looking where their teammates were running to and could play perfect passes.
No all we seem to see is overhit passes, straight to a defender or the ball going backwards.
Lukaku thrives on cute little passes in behind defenders but it's so rare to see them played.

At times the level of movement is absolutely shocking.

Like jesus, as a child I was being coached if my midfielder is driving with the ball and im not moving, I'm doing it wrong.

So much of football is instinctive in terms of decision making in the moment, but there is so much to be gained from the group having a collective idea and understanding of what "ideally" should happen.

A simple thing about two attackers running across each other, to have the defender moving and on the backfoot. So much of our crosses come into players static (bread and butter for defenders) or them running in straight lines(bread and butter for defenders).

So many times our wide attacker has come to narrow and not at the back post. Our midfielders (Pogba) not running into the box correctly or at the right time.

It really is so frustrating to watch.

limnam

TheDoc wrote: »

The level of confusion you see game to game when the opposition have the ball in their half. You will see some of our players instinctively go to close down tight, some drop off deep, and they are all finger pointing and shouting at each other.

Mhikitaryian got reefed off against City because of this confusion, and over a year later it's still confusing players.

Kids in bushy park can take multiple instructions and play different ways during the same match, yet players who are some of the best in the world on hundreds of thousands of euro a week are unable to listen to instructions and get confused ?


Is this a wind up?



Miki was taken off because he was weak. Getting shoved off the ball, poor touches etc. Many of the same problems he had with us he went on to have at Arsenal.


Not because he's unable to take in an instruction set.

bangkok

must be very frustrating for a player like Pogba when he looks up and lukaku and fellaini are both playing as target men, no movement from either and they are very easy to mark

limnam

bangkok wrote: »

must be very frustrating for a player like Pogba when he looks up and lukaku and fellaini are both playing as target men, no movement from either and they are very easy to mark

Must be very frustrating when forward players do move and pogba's too busy looking at the ground or pulling off some fifa rubbish instead of playing the ball in quicker...

bangkok

limnam wrote: »

Must be very frustrating when forward players do move and pogba's too busy looking at the ground or pulling off some fifa rubbish instead of playing the ball in quicker...

move when?? our forward play is awful, we have little or no movement up top and havent had for a long time

limnam

bangkok wrote: »

move when?? our forward play is awful, we have little or no movement up top and havent had for a long time

So all players stay in the same spot for 90 minutes and don't move?


ok.

TheDoc

Will I Am Not wrote: »

Whether it’s Rashford, Mata, Sanchez, Martial or Valencia, the team seems to be totally inept when it comes to playing the right pass/cross in the final third. Pogba is the only one who consistently creates chances and even then Lukaku is making a meal of too many of them this season.

There was plenty of opportunities on Saturday but they were brainless when it came to taking them.

That's a significant problem. I don't remember us making a lot of good chances. Lukaku missed a sitter that got blown offside. He wasn't confident with a floated ball in. Outside of that, can't remember him having anything but scraps.

There is no real excuse for Mata, Sanchez and Valencia for example. They are at the age where they should have learned their decision making, their experience of when to do this or that is as good as it will get. That Valencia canoot curl a ball with his foot is embarrassing for him.

Lingard, Martial, Rashford, Lukaku even Pogba to a certain extent. They arn't at the peak of their decision making.

A primary reason we talk about players in their peak later is not due to physyical stuff, but the mental stuff. They have a bank and wealth of experience to hopefully have narrowed down what to do in a situation.

Rashford has missed so many easy chances in his time, but you hope that are he gets older hes learning "When I'm at this angle do X" When keeper comes there I do this" and the likes.

At the same time, they need to shown. They need to be coached, they need to learn from the experience.

Pogba needs to be shown and taught to release the ball quickly and then drive forward. He needs to be made understand he has the unique ability to play fast, and how that helps the team.

Martial needs to be helped and given confidence to beat his FB and how to cutback. A rare gift thats a MASSIVE help in beating teams with a low block .Beat a man, send defence moving backward and paniced', cutback. He's also lovely playing instinctive quick interplay, help him with that.

Rashford needs to learn how to run and where to run. Pace to burn. Take a passe wide, lay it back at an angle to create the space for a through ball to get onto. (Martial is brilliant at this)

Lukaku needs to continue developing his movement. Take the ball, play it off, and then where to go next. It's not always a straight run to the six yard box.

I don't doubt these arn't being worked on, but there is some obvious stuff you expect to see players start to gradually get better at.

I've read Lukaku does extra sessions with Rashford after training. That's absolutely brilliant. Lukaku has some great inate strengths and intelligence he can share. He's a student of being a striker and aparrently is great working with video and coaches.

But at the same time, why isn't someone taking them both for extra sessions. This is the thing where I get annoyed about how we just abandon great wealth and knowledge in football. We've had a filthy amount of incredible strikers. Why not bring someone in to work on specific areas. It's not outlandish to suggest.

Why not ask Scholes if he'd be interested in a position. For all his moaning and complaining, why not go do something about it. And have him and Carrick work on decision making and technical stuff with Pogba, Fred, Matic, Herrera etc.

Why not offer Berbatov placement as he completes his badges, to come work with Rashford, Lingard, Martial and Lukaku on movement, technique and placement in the box.

Dennis Irwin is knocking about as a bloody club embassador. Clubs best Left Back in my lifetime, god knows how long before that. And someone who knew how to whip a blood cross in. He played the way most clubs CRAVE fullbacks to operate. Why isn't he in helping Luke Shaw with some one to ones.

Bit of a rant there, but a thing I never understand. Sometimes football is so incredibly behind and old school macho bull**** with managers acting like they don't need help.

Like in some parallel universe there isn't such a waste of knowledge and talent, and Van Gaal was asked and agreed to step aside to let Jose become manager, but Van Gaal kept on staff to work with youth in the first team, or take over the vacant Head of youth developement that was sitting idle for nearly a year.

TheDoc

Adamcp898 wrote: »

I had him as being moved further forward from the beginning of the second half. To me he went from being the furthest back of the midfield 3 to being our most advanced midfielder. We didn't start the aimless punts to him then but just his removal from in front of the centre halves suddenly had us exposed and once we conceded the equaliser we couldn't go back to our first half shape while searching for a goal.

I'd agree with the positive signs you mention, didn't create any chances per se but I thought Fred was quite good as the furthest forward of the three and some of his quick play and interchange with Pogba around their box in the first half was very welcome. Our shape went to crap though when he was taken off and Lingard put in that position, he's just not able to play there and tries to collect the ball in the wrong areas.

And then the final nail in the coffin was Pereira coming on and Fellaini permanently moved up front. Completely negates bringing on Martial and Mata at all because doing it that early means the opposition just sit in and get used to dealing with it, all the while knowing that doing so also helps them to defend against Martial and Lukaku who are at their most dangerous when a game is stretched and there's space in behind.

AH ok. I thought it was when we went level he took of Fred and move Fellaini forward. Remembering wrong.

Fellaini had a generally good game in that holding role. But when we went level, and we needed a goal. I'd imagine a number of managers, and maybe some fans would have assessed that situation and said "Fellaini off for Perrera, I need someone to inject some tempo and recycle the ball quickly to launch attacks"

I'm liking Pererra the more I see him now. I know many were banging his drum for years now. But now that I'm seeing him, I like him. He's the DM I personally like. Good passing, quick thinking, can drive if required but has a general urgency about his play.

He's the type of DM I think I prefer to see in our team as opposed to someone like Matic who takes an eternity to do anything, and in the end it was all totally pointless and unproductive. Really think he gets away with murder in our team. But then maybe it's because hes doing exactly what people expected? I thought he was a lot better looking when he signed. Looks very ponderous and slow. I don't know why we bought Lindeloff if we arn't going to trust him to hit a pass more than five yards.

bangkok

limnam wrote: »

So all players stay in the same spot for 90 minutes and don't move?


ok.

little or no movement does not mean stand in the same spot for 90mins.

jaykay74

All 500 players to score for Man Utd... apparently.

I didn't have Kevin Moran down as a goalscoring CB (24 goals). The only goal I remember him scoring was a bullet header for Ireland from a corner.

TheDoc

limnam wrote: »

Kids in bushy park can take multiple instructions and play different ways during the same match, yet players who are some of the best in the world on hundreds of thousands of euro a week are unable to listen to instructions and get confused ?

Is this a wind up?

The managers explanation for that situation was to literally proclaim he didn't close down the fullback who when started a move where we conceded from. Where Rooney absolutely roared at him to close down.

But in the same half there was multiple scenarios of the team not pressing collectively.

This teams default instructions are to retreat into defensive solidity when the opposition have the ball in their own half or across the backline.

The noticable omission from this is you evidently see the team press collectively.

One of the fundamentals of elite football is sticking to the plan. Instruction, coaching, tactics, pattern of play, the collective.

It's one of the discussion points of modern football, have managers got too granular with their tactics, removing decision making from players. Are players getting more one dimensional?

If your portraying that players should be working this out all by themselves on the fly on the pitch, I'd ask are you the one on the windup? Because that hasn't been how football has worked in about 10 years at the highest level.

TheDoc

limnam wrote: »

So all players stay in the same spot for 90 minutes and don't move?


ok.

Of course not.

But both sets of players are rarely on the same wavelength. You will see Sanchez making these runs and sulk when he doesn't get the ball, but hes making stupid runs or token runs. Or when our midfield do get space facing forward, too many people are coming short or facing the ball, instead of getting movement and stretching the play.

Yet you have seen Pogba or Herrera etc play lovely through balls when everyone is on the same page. There was a nice through ball to Lukaku from Pogba at the weekend. But it's the exception rather than the rule. Look with regularity what happens when Lukaku receives a ball into his chest or comes short to link play. His wide players typically stop their movement to stay level, or angle to receive a ball sideways. Instead of there being someone running behind for lukaku to lay off the pass and then Pogba to fire a ball into a channel or a runner.

Generally Lukaku's linkup play is wasted effort, as there is no one running in behind. The entire point of a 9 like Lukaku coming to receive the ball is it drags a CB, typically pulling the other CB into a covering position, and providing space for someone, or multiple people, to move in behind between FB and CB's or into the empty space the CB's have vacated for a ball over the top or around the corner.

There isn't some conspiracy theory being put forward here, it's evident in pretty much every second game we play.

AidoEirE

bassy wrote: »

hey lads going over in november for the weekend,anyone recommend good pubs in manchester in the city also any good irish ones?.

Bishop blades around the corner from OT, need your match day ticket to get in though. Old trafford bar, both places are a kip, match day though well worth a few pints as the atmosphere is unreal.

Heading over myself in feburary for the pool game

damowill

bassy wrote: »

hey lads going over in november for the weekend,anyone recommend good pubs in manchester in the city also any good irish ones?.

You should head out to the Northern Quarter. Full of bars and clubs and a few cafes and restaurants as well. You'll have a good night there & find something that suits.

Out by the ground, The Bishops Blaize, The Tollgate, The Trafford Bar and Hotel Football (Gary Nev's place) are the popular spots. The Bishops Blaize prob the best but get there early to avoid the long queue.

limnam

TheDoc wrote: »

If your portraying that players should be working this out all by themselves on the fly on the pitch, I'd ask are you the one on the windup? Because that hasn't been how football has worked in about 10 years at the highest level.

There's a huge parts of a game where they should absolute be working things out themselves. I think it was Rooney talking about SAF in an interview stating that for most matches bar the bigger games it was very tactics light.



But things like if we should push up high or all together, or not or drop off etc. There should be no room for confusion they should _all_ know what they have to do.



If it happened in one game you'd be shocked if it was something that continues to happen is the suggestion that one of the most decorated managers in football is failing to tell players _every_ week what they're suppose to be doing in certain circumstances?



To my eyes not many players look confused and the ones that do tend to be the same ones and tend to be the most lazy. Maybe they're refusing to do it ? Maybe it's why they keep getting dropped?

limnam

TheDoc wrote: »

Of course not.

But both sets of players are rarely on the same wavelength. You will see Sanchez making these runs and sulk when he doesn't get the ball, but hes making stupid runs or token runs. Or when our midfield do get space facing forward, too many people are coming short or facing the ball, instead of getting movement and stretching the play.

Or he makes a great run and pogba goes back on himself to beat a man twice instead of playing the ball early enough then goes for a holywood across the pitch ? Is he told not to go early? Is he told to play with his head down?

Weepsie

TheDoc wrote: »

I totally appreciate his frustration too. He is an immense passer of the ball. There was a shocking amount of times he had the ball, looked up quickly, no one moving or making runs and ended up laying off short or holding onto it too long.

He was visibly frustrated multiple times through the game shouting at the forward line to do something or make a run.

"

He's guilty of it himself. He will often play a needless pass that looks good but amounts to nothing as he stands and admires, or it's to a player who is isolated.

There was a moment in the second half when he played a floating cross field ball to Valencia and stood there. There was a simple ball to Fred(I think) across the ground in acres of space. The Fred would've been left with either Valencia to pass it to, Pogba had he then made a run to follow up or a cross, but in just cutting him out he basically killed play by limiting the options.

limnam

Weepsie wrote: »

He's guilty of it himself. He will often play a needless pass that looks good but amounts to nothing as he stands and admires, or it's to a player who is isolated.

There was a moment in the second half when he played a floating cross field ball to Valencia and stood there. There was a simple ball to Fred(I think) across the ground in acres of space. The Fred would've been left with either Valencia to pass it to, Pogba had he then made a run to follow up or a cross, but in just cutting him out he basically killed play by limiting the options.

Spot on, he needs to lift his head and simplify his game.

Rayne Wooney

If the average fan can see problems so can Jose Mourinho, this seems to be lost on some.

The players know how to attack, they just lack the ability to pull it off consistently. This is why we will finish in the top 4 but not win any trophies.

bangkok

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

If the average fan can see problems so can Jose Mourinho, this seems to be lost on some.

The players know how to attack, they just lack the ability to pull it off consistently. This is why we will finish in the top 4 but not win any trophies.

Its jose's decision though to push fellaini closer to lukaku when we are drawing 1-1 with wolves at old trafford. That is not good enough

AidoEirE

bangkok wrote: »

Its jose's decision though to push fellaini closer to lukaku when we are drawing 1-1 with wolves at old trafford. That is not good enough

And why not? The other lads around lukaku were producing sweet **** all most of the game.

yourdeadwright

When was the last time a Jose team played well consistently, 4 years ago at Chelsea ?
Football always evolves maybe Jose has not, That was Fergie's biggest strengths knowing the game changes, I think its one of the reason he changed his number two so often , to have someone else's voice encase what he was doing was getting stale,

DM_7

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

If the average fan can see problems so can Jose Mourinho, this seems to be lost on some.

The players know how to attack, they just lack the ability to pull it off consistently. This is why we will finish in the top 4 but not win any trophies.

Yes Jose can see problems, yet he keeps lamenting attitude and motivation. We keep seeing the same approach/set up that makes the team predictable and easy to stop in less open games. It happens over and over.

That is not on the players alone, Jose deserves to be questioned when he keeps doing the same thing. He seems confused about his way and some idea of the way he should approach game as United manager.

Look at SAF who blew a European Final because ge got caught up in a false ideology of winning the United way instead of accepting Barcelona needed to be stopped first and win the game later. It can happen to any manager where they look past what is on frint of them to try and live up to an expectation they have. Jose has done little to change United other than changing players which I find extraordinary.

Drumpot

yourdeadwright wrote: »

When was the last time a Jose team played well consistently, 4 years ago at Chelsea ?
Football always evolves maybe Jose has not, That was Fergie's biggest strengths knowing the game changes, I think its one of the reason he changed his number two so often , to have someone else's voice encase what he was doing was getting stale,

I thought most of SAF second hand men left to take up a managerial position ?

Kidd - Blackburn
Mcclaren - Middlesboro
Querez - Madrid/Portugal

I think I remember SAF being quite cold to Kidd the day Blackburn got relegated after United put them down . . Think he said something like he didn't realise they would be relegated after United game . . Im not sure he was too happy with Kidd leaving . .

Adamcp898

TheDoc wrote: »

AH ok. I thought it was when we went level he took of Fred and move Fellaini forward. Remembering wrong.

Fellaini had a generally good game in that holding role. But when we went level, and we needed a goal. I'd imagine a number of managers, and maybe some fans would have assessed that situation and said "Fellaini off for Perrera, I need someone to inject some tempo and recycle the ball quickly to launch attacks"

I'm liking Pererra the more I see him now. I know many were banging his drum for years now. But now that I'm seeing him, I like him. He's the DM I personally like. Good passing, quick thinking, can drive if required but has a general urgency about his play.

He's the type of DM I think I prefer to see in our team as opposed to someone like Matic who takes an eternity to do anything, and in the end it was all totally pointless and unproductive. Really think he gets away with murder in our team. But then maybe it's because hes doing exactly what people expected? I thought he was a lot better looking when he signed. Looks very ponderous and slow. I don't know why we bought Lindeloff if we arn't going to trust him to hit a pass more than five yards.

I think the DM's lack of involvement in our overall play is simply symptomatic of how necessary their stabalising of the back four is first and foremost with everything else being secondary. LvG used to do the same thing, arguably to an even greater degree, so I don't think it's anything like Jose being conservative or some such, it's simply a necessity.

You look at this year and how Jose has made it even more of a point of emphasis after the Brighton game by essentially playing Herrera as all but a 3rd CB vs. Spurs and likewise Fellaini vs. Watford and the first half Saturday. We just can't trust any one of the 5 CB's currently at the club to have a mistake free game nevermind a pair of them together. Even in the first half on Saturday Smalling went into a sliding tackle 20 yards into the Watford half as one of our attacks was breaking down and all you could do was nod and think "Yeah, that's why Fellaini hasn't been allowed leave his own half".

Personally I've no doubt that had we signed Alderweireld we'd be looking at a better attacking United simply from the added freedom it would have given our deepest midfielder be it Matic or whomever else. People lament over not having a deep lying playmaker like Pirlo to get the best out of Pogba but ignore the issue that they wouldn't have much time for playmaking in our side with their defensive duties.

Rayne Wooney

bangkok wrote: »

Its jose's decision though to push fellaini closer to lukaku when we are drawing 1-1 with wolves at old trafford. That is not good enough

Because it works better than the alternative, this usually only happens in the last 20 minutes when we need a goal and plan A fails, which it usually does.

yourdeadwright

One crazy thing about Jose's United is in 3 season he hasn't got any one part of the team functioning well ,

Defence - nah , Midfield -nah , Forwards- nah , There seems to be no plan to what he is doing ,

AidoEirE

DM_7 wrote: »

Yes Jose can see problems, yet he keeps lamenting attitude and motivation. We keep seeing the same approach/set up that makes the team predictable and easy to stop in less open games. It happens over and over.

That is not on the players alone, Jose deserves to be questioned when he keeps doing the same thing. He seems confused about his way and some idea of the way he should approach game as United manager.

Look at SAF who blew a European Final because ge got caught up in a false ideology of winning the United way instead of accepting Barcelona needed to be stopped first and win the game later. It can happen to any manager where they look past what is on frint of them to try and live up to an expectation they have. Jose has done little to change United other than changing players which I find extraordinary.

Honestly i think Jose has had the finger pointed at him more than the players. If anything players should start to be questioned a lot more.

You wouldnt see a pogba/martial coming out to the press saying these things if SAF was around.
Its why you dont here the likes of smalling/jones/valencia do those ****y interviews.

Plenty of players need to step up in this squad

Drumpot

yourdeadwright wrote: »

One crazy thing about Jose's United is in 3 season he hasn't got any one part of the team functioning well ,

Defence - nah , Midfield -nah , Forwards- nah , There seems to be no plan to what he is doing ,

Are you just venting (fair enough) or do you genuinely believe above ?

Jose has won leagues and/or champions leagues at every club he's managed, but he has forgotten the abilities to setup a functioning team at United ?

United finished 2nd in the league, doesn't say much for the teams below us if they did that with no plan . .

Adamocovic

AidoEirE wrote: »

Honestly i think Jose has had the finger pointed at him more than the players. If anything players should start to be questioned a lot more.

I think the players, Jose and Woodward have all been getting shares of the blame.

The only people I find who think one receives more than the other is the person who is defending one of the above, and generally believes their one receives all the blame. All are equally at fault and none of them are getting a free ride.

Thread just goes in cycles to which get's the focus of the blame. At the moment it is Jose, not so long ago it was Pogba and a few of the players, then before that Woodward. But I don't think overall one group has had more blame pointed at them more than the others.

Players have definitely been questioned a lot.

DM_7

AidoEirE wrote: »

Honestly i think Jose has had the finger pointed at him more than the players. If anything players should start to be questioned a lot more.

You wouldnt see a pogba/martial coming out to the press saying these things if SAF was around.
Its why you dont here the likes of smalling/jones/valencia do those ****y interviews.

Plenty of players need to step up in this squad

I am not saying they are blameless.

Just that we have seen little to no innovation from the manager in how he sets his team out in games like the weekend.

Every Wolves, Burnley, Bournemouth at OT is the same ideas. Central Striker maked by two defenders, inverted winger down left, nothing from the right hand side. How is that Smalling or Fellaini's fault?

yourdeadwright

Drumpot wrote: »

yourdeadwright wrote: »

One crazy thing about Jose's United is in 3 season he hasn't got any one part of the team functioning well ,

Defence - nah , Midfield -nah , Forwards- nah , There seems to be no plan to what he is doing ,

Are you just venting (fair enough) or do you genuinely believe above ?

Jose has won leagues and/or champions leagues at every club he's managed, but he has forgotten the abilities to setup a functioning team at United ?

United finished 2nd in the league, doesn't say much for the teams below us if they did that with no plan . .

He was a very good manger and knows his way around and knows how to win games ,Yes united came second but United have a very very good squad of players ,
But you can't really argue with what iv said ,

Which part of the teams has he improved ,defence, midfield , forwards ?

AidoEirE

Adamocovic wrote: »

I think the players, Jose and Woodward have all been getting shares of the blame.

The only people I find who think one receives more than the other is the person who is defending one of the above, and generally believes their one receives all the blame. All are equally at fault and none of them are getting a free ride.

Thread just goes in cycles to which get's the focus of the blame. At the moment it is Jose, not so long ago it was Pogba and a few of the players, then before that Woodward. But I don't think overall one group has had more blame pointed at them more than the others.

Players have definitely been questioned a lot.

Thats fair enough and i couldnt argue with what you said as its dead on 100%

Although i will say the finger gets pointed as Jose's fault every time we have a bad result, when its clear players dont perform

DM_7

Jose is good at games he does not have to control with the ball.

The worries this season are same as last already. While annoying, it is acceptable to lose to Spurs. It is the lost points to Wolves and of course Brighton that over a season put the biggest strain on the side.

Last season it was games like Burnley, Southampton, Huddersfield, Stoke, West Brom, Newcastle and of course Brighton.

AidoEirE

DM_7 wrote: »

Jose is good at games he does not have to control with the ball.

The worries this season are same as last already. While annoying, it is acceptable to lose to Spurs. It is the lost points to Wolves and of course Brighton that over a season put the biggest strain on the side.

Last season it was games like Burnley, Southampton, Huddersfield, Stoke, West Brom, Newcastle and of course Brighton.

How can he consistently perform against the 'top 6' yet underperform against the teams you mentioned.
To me, thats a player attitude problem that are not up to those games

adox

yourdeadwright wrote: »

When was the last time a Jose team played well consistently, 4 years ago at Chelsea ?
Football always evolves maybe Jose has not, That was Fergie's biggest strengths knowing the game changes, I think its one of the reason he changed his number two so often , to have someone else's voice encase what he was doing was getting stale,

When was the last time you saw Utd play consistently well? Long before Jose arrived.

It isnt an either or. People need to look at the bigger picture when analyzing the club.

Its a mess, but its not a "its the manager thats the problem, replace him and it will be fine" mess.

Anyway he will be gone next summer along with Pogba. He didnt perform to his potential and didnt live up to what I hoped but I will miss him a lot more than I`ll miss Pogba.

DM_7

AidoEirE wrote: »

How can he consistently perform against the 'top 6' yet underperform against the teams you mentioned.
To me, thats a player attitude problem that are not up to those games

No, not on its own, the blame must be shared. Jose is a well known expert at a reactionary and cautionary approach where games against a team that will not sit with a low block suit him.

He can set up to stop them with a low block of his own and try to concentrate on counter attacking. A manager who considers too much possession in such games as a weakness as it leaves you open to a mistake (like happened Pogba at the weekend).

It is his perfect type of game.

He has shown little innovation at United in setting up to beat teams who do what he does to the "better sides". His current method is easy to defend against and the more success teams have the more it encourages others to set up the same way. Without a mistake or early goal to draw a team out, United often struggle to break a side down. Even at the weekend to goal comes from a mistake via a bad clearance. As I have said, he has United playing the way he would want to play against.

Edit: obviously if he had a Ronaldo, Tevez, Rooney combo or even a player like Hazard or Robben he could rely on quality more. Quality is vital but I see Jose doing the same thing over and over which worries me.

Adamcp898

Adamcp898 wrote: »

I had him as being moved further forward from the beginning of the second half. To me he went from being the furthest back of the midfield 3 to being our most advanced midfielder. We didn't start the aimless punts to him then but just his removal from in front of the centre halves suddenly had us exposed and once we conceded the equaliser we couldn't go back to our first half shape while searching for a goal.

I'd agree with the positive signs you mention, didn't create any chances per se but I thought Fred was quite good as the furthest forward of the three and some of his quick play and interchange with Pogba around their box in the first half was very welcome. Our shape went to crap though when he was taken off and Lingard put in that position, he's just not able to play there and tries to collect the ball in the wrong areas.

And then the final nail in the coffin was Pereira coming on and Fellaini permanently moved up front. Completely negates bringing on Martial and Mata at all because doing it that early means the opposition just sit in and get used to dealing with it, all the while knowing that doing so also helps them to defend against Martial and Lukaku who are at their most dangerous when a game is stretched and there's space in behind.

Thats how I remember when he went forward and he went back after 1-1 only to go forward again near the end. I think Jose thought Wolves would press much harder in the 2nd half at a goal down so wanted his best passesers in midfield further back and an outlet in Fellaini to by pass the press.

Unfortunately one of the better passers got caught on the ball leading to a goal and the plan didnt work out

yourdeadwright

Edit: obviously if he had a Ronaldo, Tevez, Rooney combo or even a player like Hazard or Robben he could rely on quality more. Quality is vital but I see Jose doing the same thing over and over which worries me.

Was Alexis not suppose to be that man ,

rob316

I seen something on FB earlier last premier league goal

Mata - Dec 17
Martial - Jan 18
Lingard - Feb 18
Sanchez - Mar 18

I know there is 3 months where there is no football, but thats pretty shocking still

Fitz*

rob316 wrote: »

I seen something on FB earlier last premier league goal

Mata - Dec 17
Martial - Jan 18
Lingard - Feb 18
Sanchez - Mar 18

I know there is 3 months where there is no football, but thats pretty shocking still

Martial was scoring goals up until January and as far as I'm aware, he won the United POTM 3 times. United signed Sanchez and pushed him out of the team and he is unhappy now / wants to leave. Just another angle to show bad the Sanchez signing has been. Sanchez bad but forcing out Martial who was in good form at the time.

FitzShane

FitzShane wrote: »

Martial was scoring goals up until January and as far as I'm aware, he won the United POTM 3 times. United signed Sanchez and pushed him out of the team and he is unhappy now / wants to leave. Just another angle to show bad the Sanchez signing has been. Sanchez bad but forcing out Martial who was in good form at the time.

Martial couldn't even nail down a starting place against Rashford last season before Shanchez came and scored most of his goals coming of the bench 3 or 4 of which were the last goals in 3/4-0 victories

Drumpot

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Was Alexis not suppose to be that man ,

I think it was perisic who Jose wanted since last summer and Sanchez was effectively a cheaper option. I’m not complaining he was signed but It looks like Jose wanted somebody else and the club took advantage of city balking at the wage demands for Sanchez.... like the way we got mata when Chelsea wanted to sell or di Maria when he really wanted to move to PSG but wasn’t arsed waiting a season for them to sign him!!

Drumpot

Deleted User wrote: »

Martial couldn't even nail down a starting place against Rashford last season before Shanchez came and scored most of his goals coming of the bench 3 or 4 of which were the last goals in 3/4-0 victories

bucketybuck

yourdeadwright wrote: »

but United have a very very good squad of players

The most frustrating part for me is that we are wasting this season.

The club didn't back the manager and we are going to see exactly what we have been seeing for years now, the same chumps making the same mistakes. We are going to get to the end of the season and achieve nothing, then the manager will go and we will be back to the start, a new manager giving the chumps chances.

If the board had just sacked Mourinho in the summer we would be there already, watching the chumps underperform take time to adapt to a new manager. There wouldn't be that nagging doubt any more, people wouldn't wonder if big bad Jose was holding them back, instead it would be manager number 4 and still rubbish from the usual suspects.

We all know where it is going, the failure of a transfer window ensured that, so I kinda wish they could just get on with it and get it done, don't waste another season on it.

IamtheWalrus

Delusional to think Jose won't be around next season (barring a capitulation).

Lord TSC

IamtheWalrus wrote: »

Delusional to think Jose won't be around next season (barring a capitulation).

Jose 100% won't be there if we miss top 4. That precedent has already been set.

And we are certainly moving towards a battle for top 4 already.....

bucketybuck

IamtheWalrus wrote: »

Delusional to think Jose won't be around next season (barring a capitulation).

Delusional to think Jose will be there next season (barring a miracle).

Thats how it works, right?

DM_7

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Was Alexis not suppose to be that man ,

Yeah maybe but more Ozil than Ronaldo.

Subbed off 17 times with 6 of those in losses shows lack of faith in him. Imagine needing goals and taking off Ronaldo.

DM_7

Pogba's turn:

Why would Mourinho be annoyed at Pogba giving the ball away in the lead-up to Wolves’ equaliser? Because after six Premier League games no central midfielder in any team has been dispossessed more often than Pogba or taken more unsuccessful touches.

Pogba is yet to make a single interception. Sixty-eight midfielders have made more tackles per 90 minutes, including Fulham’s Tom Cairney, who is a throwback to the strolling-playmaker golden age of the 1960s, and Bernardo Silva, whose manager’s best quote so far in England is “what is tackles?” If Mourinho really is worried about Pogba giving the ball away, not imposing himself and not working enough for the team, then maybe it is because he gives the ball away, does not impose himself and does not work enough for the team.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2018/sep/24/whats-that-odd-feeling-its-sympathy-for-mourinho-amid-pogbas-malaise